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Beep beep, coming through
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Jan 31, 2017 14:49
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alg posted:Not unpopular here! It would be a breath of fresh air. Eh? Do you really want to make it so old skus never sell anymore?
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Jan 31, 2017 15:23
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Panzeh posted:Eh? Do you really want to make it so old skus never sell anymore? Yes, because then there is room for newer skus for the "same" ships (even same models and similar upgrades) that are not useless in the actual game.
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Jan 31, 2017 15:26
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If FFG could get over their enormous aversion to Errata'd and restricted cards it'd be a much better change than set rotation, which doesn't make nearly as much sense in a miniatures game as it does in a card game. Edit: Strobe, nobody wants to buy the same old ship for new cards except you, and you only want to buy more X-Wings, so no.
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Jan 31, 2017 15:27
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I'd rather have a X-Wing 2.0 book or whatever that rebalances cards and adds FAQ/Errata stuff like the timing chart.
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Jan 31, 2017 15:30
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Chill la Chill posted:Beep beep, coming through Looks like it has poo poo rubbed on it. Devlan Mud posted:If FFG could get over their enormous aversion to Errata'd and restricted cards it'd be a much better change than set rotation, which doesn't make nearly as much sense in a miniatures game as it does in a card game. I think having too much errata gets confusing because then the cards are pointless and you have to remember which cards got errata'd and in which ways. It's barely manageable now. Improbable Lobster posted:I'd rather have a X-Wing 2.0 book or whatever that rebalances cards and adds FAQ/Errata stuff like the timing chart. This would be good since they seem wholly incapable of putting all the rules inserts online, like the extra Ghost rules, etc. While they're at it they should require online match management for all regionals at a minimum, and probably all store championships. Of course, that would require hiring dedicated developers to do that which they don't seem to want to do unless it's for releasing dice apps and board game companion apps. I thought that might improve under Asmodee but it only seems to have gotten worse, imo. Finster Dexter fucked around with this message at 15:53 on Jan 31, 2017 |
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Jan 31, 2017 15:51
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I don't think a rotation is strictly necessary in a game like this. The meta for this game is pretty healthy, and FFG hasn't been as errata-averse in this game as they have been with Netrunner. As mentioned, though, the design space is a lot smaller so it's easier to manage. At most I think the game could use a Core 1.5 box with primarily new/corrected pilot and upgrade cards to bring some of the older ships (X-Wings) up to speed. e: beaten pretty handily
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Jan 31, 2017 15:54
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Finster Dexter posted:Looks like it has poo poo rubbed on it.
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Jan 31, 2017 16:22
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Finster Dexter posted:I think having too much errata gets confusing because then the cards are pointless and you have to remember which cards got errata'd and in which ways. It's barely manageable now. Ideally I'd like a 1.5 or 2.0 version of the rules, with both simplified timing charts that make sense, and an errata/FAQ document showing where all currently printed ambiguous cards fall in said timing window, along with release day updates showing where new cards fit in if the text isn't clear as day (which ideally wouldn't be an issue, if all the above is done.
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Jan 31, 2017 16:39
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Devlan Mud posted:Ideally I'd like a 1.5 or 2.0 version of the rules, with both simplified timing charts that make sense, and an errata/FAQ document showing where all currently printed ambiguous cards fall in said timing window, along with release day updates showing where new cards fit in if the text isn't clear as day (which ideally wouldn't be an issue, if all the above is done. Yeah, that would be really good. While I'm still in gripe mode, why can't they be in front of this stuff for once. For instance, the Rules Reference and FAQ should be updated with the Condition Card stuff before these things are even off the boat. I can't wait until Upsilon is out and we all have to carry around the rules insert to resolve weird questions about condition cards (because inevitably there will be weird questions around it).
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Jan 31, 2017 16:51
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I've always carried around all the rule cards/inserts everywhere for just that reason. And a copy of the most recent FAQ on my cheap tablet. At this point I'm just used to it :P
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Jan 31, 2017 17:06
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What the gently caress is this poo poo Like, holy poo poo that be OP. A bomb off any side of the base using any manuver on the dial? Can take crew (So Sabine bonus damage) plus can take advanced sensors. You can load this up with 8 prox mines, or connor nets, or well anything. Plus...4 red primary. EDIT: Also has boost, so you can toss Autothrusters on it.
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Jan 31, 2017 17:16
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Chill la Chill posted:Beep beep, coming through How are them Solo boys gonna get out of this one? *La Cucaracha horn blares while it buzzes a Star Destroyer*
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Jan 31, 2017 17:20
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oh yes oh god yes form the head FORM THE HEAD unghhhh...
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bunnyofdoom posted:What the gently caress is this poo poo Hahah holy poo poo it has a five straight. So you can put bombs anywhere on the board into the near parts of the range 3 band. Autothrusters would be a waste on a 1 agi ship but holy lol at that ability.
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Jan 31, 2017 17:24
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bunnyofdoom posted:What the gently caress is this poo poo lol
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Jan 31, 2017 17:25
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IronSaber posted:How are them Solo boys gonna get out of this one? To get in, Chewie slides across the top and into the side of the cockpit.
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Jan 31, 2017 17:27
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ConfusedUs posted:Hahah holy poo poo it has a five straight. So you can put bombs anywhere on the board into the near parts of the range 3 band. Right? It's so loving idiotic.
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Jan 31, 2017 17:34
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Devlan Mud posted:Ideally I'd like a 1.5 or 2.0 version of the rules, with both simplified timing charts that make sense, and an errata/FAQ document showing where all currently printed ambiguous cards fall in said timing window, along with release day updates showing where new cards fit in if the text isn't clear as day (which ideally wouldn't be an issue, if all the above is done. If we're talking ideals, I kind of want two things to happen: 1) An X-Wing 2.0 big box that contains updated cards/cardboard for everything. Clean things up, perhaps expand the points/health/dice values a bit to allow for greater granularity, put some serious consideration into replacing turrets with mobile arcs, and generally rebalance the game. New printings of existing ships include the updated stuff. 2) Expansions rotate out of competitive play after X amount of time, where X is something reasonable (no more than 3 years). Major mistakes can be fixed by errata at any time, of course, but a rotation lets the meta shift radically every so often without the need for major power creep and entirely new mechanics. Totally spitballing here, of course, but I think it would be very healthy for the game in the long term. Short term nothing quite so drastic is needed, as the game is pretty well balanced (with the understanding that not all ships are competitive level). But long term...given the extremely limited design space of X-Wing, I've long wondered at the long-term viability of the game. There are frankly only so many combinations possible, and there are many ships that are near clones of each other (B-Wings/G-1As, for example). A soft combo of the two would also work; maybe this hypothetical big box only includes stuff from wave 4 and up, with the others being rotated out. Maybe a new core set comes out at the same time with updated staple ships from waves 1-3. Who knows. It's all theorycrafting at best.
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Jan 31, 2017 17:35
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ConfusedUs posted:
2.0 or not, I'd be totally down for cardboard expansion. Maybe some proper campaign setting. Stuff. There's a lot of possibilities here.
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Jan 31, 2017 17:55
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Give the Aturi Cluster dude like $50k and sell it as an official product.
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Jan 31, 2017 17:57
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ConfusedUs posted:2) Expansions rotate out of competitive play after X amount of time, where X is something reasonable (no more than 3 years). Major mistakes can be fixed by errata at any time, of course, but a rotation lets the meta shift radically every so often without the need for major power creep and entirely new mechanics. This is the big point I'd disagree with. I mean, if you instituted this cutoff, you'd be stripping out everything before Wave 4. That includes: -Core Set, X-Wing, Y-Wing, A-Wing, B-Wing, YT-1300, and HWK-290 for Rebels -Core Set, TIE Fighter, TIE Interceptor, Slave I, TIE Bomber, and Lambda for Imperials. That's a lot of ships, including every ship that actually showed up in the original trilogy. But at the same time, removing these ships wouldn't actually effect the meta in a huge way-the only ship among this list that saw the top tables at Worlds for instance was the Lambda*, and that was less due to the ship itself and more because of its ability to cheaply carry Palpatine. Now, if you carried this forward a few months, you would see a major shift with the removal of Imperial Aces and the last available copy of Push the Limit-but eliminating over a dozen of the franchise's most iconic ships from competitive play seems like a pretty loving steep price to pay to remove one top card. *Edit: Plus a single Fat Han list I missed on my first read-through Acebuckeye13 fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Jan 31, 2017 |
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Jan 31, 2017 18:31
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If Push The Limit got cycled onto the restricted list, the game would look very different. Don't know if that means better, but different.
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Jan 31, 2017 18:34
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Acebuckeye13 posted:This is the big point I'd disagree with. I mean, if you instituted this cutoff, you'd be stripping out everything before Wave 4. That includes: And of those the X-Wing (other than Biggs), A-Wing, B-Wing, HWK, Slave I, and Bomber are all but unusable. You may see the ship fill a very specific role, but those tend to be the exception rather than the rule. The others, such as the X-Wing (Biggs only), Interceptor (Soontir, sometimes Carnor), Lambda (OGP, sometimes Yorr), and Y-Wing (cheap TLT carrier, sometimes with stressbot), have specific pilots/loadouts that are meta staples, but you never see them outside of that usage. I want to see these ships as much as you, and that's where the other part of a rotation comes in. They can release new, updated versions of those old ships that make them viable in a modern environment without, say, worrying how the hell they balance Biggs.
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Jan 31, 2017 19:15
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ConfusedUs posted:The others, such as the X-Wing (Biggs only), Interceptor (Soontir, sometimes Carnor), Lambda (OGP, sometimes Yorr), and Y-Wing (cheap TLT carrier, sometimes with stressbot), have specific pilots/loadouts that are meta staples, but you never see them outside of that usage. I get what you're saying and I don't disagree, but that's sort of true with most ships though anyway. 90% are the cheapest generic and/or raddest ace, and nothing in between. Just looking at Rebels: A-Wing is crack swarm or sometimes Jake Attack Shuttle is docked for the Ghost/Phantom title B Wing is for swarms E Wing is Corran Horn HWK is lol K-Wing is Miranda or triple Wardens T-70 is Poe Dameron with Autothrusters X-Wing is Biggs Y-Wing is cheap TLT carrier Z-95 is 12 points of filler or Missile Blount Ghost is Kanan or Lothal Rebel YT-2400 is Dash U Wing is nonexistent Millenium Falcon has some diverse options, and so does the ARC-170 (except for Thane) There are some other ships that really nailed it, and give compelling reasons to take different pilots. (Decimator, Jumpmaster, Protectorate Starfighter, TIE Defender) That's the exception.
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Jan 31, 2017 19:38
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bunnyofdoom posted:What the gently caress is this poo poo It's FORTY points. It costs more naked than a fully loaded Punisher and dies at the same rate. It had better be good, for that.
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Jan 31, 2017 19:43
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Anyone find a U-Wing build they like using? There is a reverse hanger bay tournament coming up and thought about using this as one of my lists: U-Wing Cassian Andor (32) -Title (0) -VI(1) -Fire-Control System (2) -Hera (1) -Inspring Recruit(1) A-Wing Tycho Celchu (30) -Autothrusters (2) -A Wing Test Pilot (0) -Rage(1) -Push the Limit(3) -Chardaan Refit (-2) Arc 170 Nora Wexley(38) -Alliance Overhaul(0) -Expertise (4) -C3PO(3) -BB-8(2)
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Jan 31, 2017 21:03
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lazerus06 posted:Anyone find a U-Wing build they like using? There is a reverse hanger bay tournament coming up and thought about using this as one of my lists: I would either get rid of Inspiring Recruit or replace Tycho, as he gets 0 benefit from it. Hera is marginal benefit as well. Maybe put Rey on there instead of those crew. I was looking at Bodhi Rook (crew) as well... and he begs the question: Is there any precedent for having Bodhi Rook's crew ability work when FCS is triggered? That might be interesting.
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Jan 31, 2017 21:45
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Finster Dexter posted:I would either get rid of Inspiring Recruit or replace Tycho, as he gets 0 benefit from it. Hera is marginal benefit as well. Maybe put Rey on there instead of those crew. I was looking at Bodhi Rook (crew) as well... and he begs the question: Is there any precedent for having Bodhi Rook's crew ability work when FCS is triggered? That might be interesting. Bodhi crew reads When you acquire a target lock, you can lock onto an enemy ship at Range 1-3 of any friendly ship., and FCS reads After you perform an attack, you may acquire a target lock on the defender. "on the defender" seems pretty ironclad to me, and well, you're only able to attack stuff within range 1-3 
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Jan 31, 2017 21:50
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canyoneer posted:Bodhi crew reads When you acquire a target lock, you can lock onto an enemy ship at Range 1-3 of any friendly ship., and FCS reads After you perform an attack, you may acquire a target lock on the defender. well duh, but you can't normally TL something outside of R3, either, but with Bodhi you can if it's within 1-3 of a friendly ship. I guess cards can trump the rules but not other cards?
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Jan 31, 2017 21:52
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Finster Dexter posted:well duh, but you can't normally TL something outside of R3, either, but with Bodhi you can if it's within 1-3 of a friendly ship. I guess cards can trump the rules but not other cards? But FCS doesn't read "You may acquire a target lock [on anything]". It's on the defender only. If it was worded like Drea Renthal's ability, then you'd be in business. (After you spend a target lock, you may receive 1 stress token to acquire a target lock.)
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Jan 31, 2017 22:06
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canyoneer posted:But FCS doesn't read "You may acquire a target lock [on anything]". But Bodhi essentially does. I see what you're getting at, and you're probably right, though.
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Jan 31, 2017 22:08
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With FCS you must lock the defender. However, if you had FCS and Weapons Engineer, one of your locks must be on the defender but the other could be anyone else within 1-3 of you. If you ALSO had Bodhi, your second lock could be anyone in range 1-3 of an ally.
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Jan 31, 2017 22:38
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ConfusedUs posted:Met Brunas; he gave me a shirt. It says 'Git Gud', what a bastard. REKT Cool to see you, was going to find you after the hangar bay madness and invite you to dinner and such with our local guys! I played the mad cow disease in my hangar bay, thank God I didn't lose our I'd never hear the end of it until the end of time...
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Jan 31, 2017 22:44
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I see what you mean too. I think Bodhi's ability is intended to "break the rule" on target lock range when acquiring a target lock, but probably isn't intended to allow you to ignore the "on the defender" restriction from FCS. Consider a ship with FCS shooting at Valen Rudor, at the edge of Range 3. Rudor has initiative. After the shot, Rudor boosts forward, out of range 3. Then, FCS would resolve and the player would acquire a target lock. Should they still get it? Valen Rudor is out of range.
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Jan 31, 2017 22:47
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Brunas posted:REKT It's all good! I had bros in the finals (Zach Bunn was top 8 and Dennis Underwood in the Top 4, best game of the series actually) so we made an emergency run out for food for those guys. Did you play against Mad Cows or were you flying them? I know Sable had the Cows going (and took credit for creating it when I spoke to him lol).
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Jan 31, 2017 22:49
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ConfusedUs posted:And of those the X-Wing (other than Biggs), A-Wing, B-Wing, HWK, Slave I, and Bomber are all but unusable. You may see the ship fill a very specific role, but those tend to be the exception rather than the rule. But at the same time, isn't that what they're already doing with Ace packs/Huge Ship bundles, minus taking away ships after an arbitrary period of time? I mean sure, they hypothetically make adjustments to a ship's statline or the wording of pilot abilities, but they've already shown they're perfectly willing to do that via upgrade cards and errata. I just don't see the necessity in removing ships completely (And having to re-buy them!) when Aces packs already exist.
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Jan 31, 2017 23:05
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Acebuckeye13 posted:But at the same time, isn't that what they're already doing with Ace packs/Huge Ship bundles, minus taking away ships after an arbitrary period of time? I mean sure, they hypothetically make adjustments to a ship's statline or the wording of pilot abilities, but they've already shown they're perfectly willing to do that via upgrade cards and errata. I just don't see the necessity in removing ships completely (And having to re-buy them!) when Aces packs already exist. And I really hate the necessity in having to buy a $70 ship to make my $15 ship good enough to compete in a tournament setting. The difference between that and the model we prefer is that in the model we prefer we're only spending $30. 
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Jan 31, 2017 23:07
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Strobe posted:And I really hate the necessity in having to buy a $70 ship to make my $15 ship good enough to compete in a tournament setting. The difference between that and the model we prefer is that in the model we prefer we're only spending $30. Except right now I can still take Rebel Y-Wings to tournaments. In the rotation model I can't.
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Jan 31, 2017 23:15
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Acebuckeye13 posted:Except right now I can still take Rebel Y-Wings to tournaments. In the rotation model I can't. Except there'd be an updated Y-Wing for you to fly! Perhaps with new exciting pilots, upgrade slots, and stuff. Maybe a bigger focus on bombs? Who knows! Maybe they'd even include extra cards/cardboard so you could still use your old models.
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Jan 31, 2017 23:27
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Acebuckeye13 posted:Except right now I can still take Rebel Y-Wings to tournaments. In the rotation model I can't. Do you have a TLT? BTL-A4? Bomb Loadout (and some bombs), Dutch and Targeting Astromech? If you answered no to all four, then you might as well leave it at home. Except the TLT is $20, BTL-A4 is $40, Bomb Loadout is in the same pack and also doesn't come with the bombs you probably want, and Targeting Astromech is another $15. In the rotation model, unless the dial changes you're still going to have a ship you can use with your brand-new cardboard bases, except ideally you wouldn't be crippled if you don't have upgrades from X or Y other ship, many of which aren't even in your faction.
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Jan 31, 2017 23:37
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