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Pissflaps posted:What a weird position to take. Why? He's said he'll vote to block Article 50 if the amendments aren't made, so if there's a whip at that stage, he'll have to resign. He's not doing it for fun.
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Jan 31, 2017 21:25
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Pissflaps posted:I look forward to seeing how well this bold strategy of doing gently caress all because what's the point anyway pays off with the voting public. The news tonight interviewed people in Owen Smith's constituency. Obviously no-one who voted leave was happy with him, but two out of three remainers also thought he was wrong to vote against Article 50.
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Jan 31, 2017 21:32
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Labour voting for brexit won't kill as many people as voting for the Iraq War.
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Jan 31, 2017 21:49
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jabby posted:The news tonight interviewed people in Owen Smith's constituency. Obviously no-one who voted leave was happy with him, but two out of three remainers also thought he was wrong to vote against Article 50. Because we had a Referendum and most people think Democracy isn't poo poo and thus should be abided by, even if their side lost.
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Jan 31, 2017 21:50
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JFairfax posted:Labour voting for brexit won't kill as many people as voting for the Iraq War. While true it's not like the Americans couldn't have handled that alone.
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Jan 31, 2017 21:51
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Didn't see it posted earlier so apologies if it was, but there was a link on the Graun liveblog to the HOC Library briefing and report on the bill just before it started. European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Bill Covers a lot of background and issues (Miller case, Sewel convention, Euratom) and lots of references - only partly through it but think some folk will find it interesting.
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Jan 31, 2017 21:51
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Fans posted:Because we had a Referendum and most people think Democracy isn't poo poo and thus should be abided by, even if their side lost. I think democracy is poo poo when there's nobody with the spine to stop printing particularly juicy lies, tbh. A central plank in Leave's campaign was the boris bus, which was a pack of shite because A: We're not getting 350 million a week back if we leave the EU and B: like gently caress are the tories going to put that in the NHS. And I know that was persuasive because people still think it's true. You can't have a functional democracy with such a blatantly fraudulent set of premises.
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Jan 31, 2017 22:08
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Fangz posted:Brexit will legit kill people. Staying in the EU would also kill people. One MP has already been killed for appearing to support immigration, just imagine the backlash if parliament actually did decide to discount the referendum.
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Jan 31, 2017 22:14
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Fans posted:Because we had a Referendum and most people think Democracy isn't poo poo and thus should be abided by, even if their side lost. Or at least, reconsidered when there's a lot of support for doing so, when people realise the reality is gonna be Real Bad
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Jan 31, 2017 22:28
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Pissflaps posted:3 is 37.5% of 8. Coincidentally almost the exact percentage of the electorate that voted Leave.
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Jan 31, 2017 22:35
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I bring that up and people always go "Oh, yeah, but nobody shows up to vote for everything" and that's usually meant to be a slam-dunk but to my mind that seems like a massive loving problem with democracy as well. You can't actually be ruled by the people if 20-40% of your people don't, can't or won't engage with the process.
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Jan 31, 2017 22:54
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spectralent posted:I think democracy is poo poo when there's nobody with the spine to stop printing particularly juicy lies, tbh. A central plank in Leave's campaign was the boris bus, which was a pack of shite because A: We're not getting 350 million a week back if we leave the EU and B: like gently caress are the tories going to put that in the NHS. And I know that was persuasive because people still think it's true. You can't have a functional democracy with such a blatantly fraudulent set of premises. If you can explain how the Referendum is flawed in a way a General Election isn't you might get some traction, but "People on the winning side lied about their plans" is true of pretty much election we've ever had.
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Jan 31, 2017 22:57
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jabby posted:The news tonight interviewed people in Owen Smith's constituency. Obviously no-one who voted leave was happy with him, but two out of three remainers also thought he was wrong to vote against Article 50. We get it. You think it's a good thing that Corbyn is running a three line whip on the Article 50 bill vote. You're wrong.
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Jan 31, 2017 22:58
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jabby posted:but two out of three remainers also thought he was wrong to vote against Article 50. Those people are thick traitors.
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Jan 31, 2017 23:02
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spectralent posted:I bring that up and people always go "Oh, yeah, but nobody shows up to vote for everything" and that's usually meant to be a slam-dunk but to my mind that seems like a massive loving problem with democracy as well. You can't actually be ruled by the people if 20-40% of your people don't, can't or won't engage with the process. Of course, Australia elected a martian regardless of their laws mandating participation, so you might need more than just that.
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Jan 31, 2017 23:08
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Pissflaps posted:We get it. You think it's a good thing that Corbyn is running a three line whip on the Article 50 bill vote. I'm fairly neutral towards it actually, but I was just sharing what happened on the news to point out that your strategy of whipping against Brexit would piss off not only the leavers but a decent chunk of the remainers. Since you made a point about how Labour's current strategy would go down with the general public.
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Jan 31, 2017 23:11
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jabby posted:I'm fairly neutral towards it actually, but I was just sharing what happened on the news to point out that your strategy of whipping against Brexit would piss off not only the leavers but a decent chunk of the remainers. Since you made a point about how Labour's current strategy would go down with the general public. All data is gratefully received but given that about 16,000,00 voted remain and you offered a poll with a sample size of 3 - yielding a margin of error of 57% - i'm not sure how useful it is.
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Jan 31, 2017 23:13
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Pissflaps posted:All data is gratefully received but given that about 16,000,00 voted remain and you offered a poll with a sample size of 3 - yielding a margin of error of 57% - i'm not sure how useful it is. Even the Lib Dems, who are 100% billing themselves as the party of remain, can't get two out of their eight MPs to vote for it. I'm fairly sure it's because they're aware of how unpopular it would be. The fact that the Lib Dems are not polling any better also points toward their 'strategy' being a complete non-starter with the public.
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Jan 31, 2017 23:17
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Here's an interesting little story about how Cameron tried to get Paul Dacre fired. Sadly for political reasons rather than because he's a poo poo, but you can't have it all...
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Jan 31, 2017 23:40
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Gonzo McFee posted:You've got to feel for the Job Centre Staff*, enforce draconian and pointless bureaucracy for the Tories only for them to close your job post and force you to travel 15 miles to get put through that same draconian and pointless bureaucracy alongside the same people you sanctioned just months previous. I missed it as I was up in the city today, but apparently that exact argument minus the disclaimer was made at the local labour action group meeting tonight with absolute sincerity.
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Jan 31, 2017 23:41
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kustomkarkommando posted:Violence for securing entry (kicking in doors) has been an offence since the 70s but trespass is traditionally (or rather was) a civil issue. Squatters would make a claim of legal right to residence and the property holder would have to contest in court - its was a civil matter up until residential squatting was criminalised in 2012 Nitpick here, but the Criminal Law Act 1977 already had a process for taking criminal action against residential squatters where there was an intended occupier. In fact in housing law circles that was one of the reasons that the new offence of residential squatting got a bit of the stink eye; if the people writing it had been housing law experts they'd have known this and amended the old 1977 act to suit their purposes. As it is it looked like back-of-a-napkin legislation created more to look good in the rightwing press than actually accomplish much.
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Jan 31, 2017 23:44
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Hidingo Kojimba posted:As it is it looked like back-of-a-napkin legislation created more to look good in the rightwing press than actually accomplish much.
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Jan 31, 2017 23:50
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Prince John posted:Here's an interesting little story about how Cameron tried to get Paul Dacre fired. Sadly for political reasons rather than because he's a poo poo, but you can't have it all... Yet another failure to lay at Cameron's door.
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Feb 1, 2017 00:04
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Tory MP attacks trans-inclusive medical guide avoiding saying ‘mothers’ as ‘ridiculous’. Guess who.
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Feb 1, 2017 00:26
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Starting to think that Farage only has two expressions: almost been killed after a plane crash and that man your parents told you never to talk to or take sweets from
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Feb 1, 2017 00:27
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Kenneth Clarke's twitter is...interesting https://twitter.com/KCQCMP/status/826497504237740033
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Feb 1, 2017 00:27
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Fans posted:If you can explain how the Referendum is flawed in a way a General Election isn't you might get some traction, but "People on the winning side lied about their plans" is true of pretty much election we've ever had. The onus is on the leavers to show that the referendum was especially sacrosanct in a way that means Her Majesty's Opposition should put aside their job to Oppose. Suppose the tories push through a referendum to cut taxes massively or something, do you really expect Labour to just stand back and go, sure okay. jabby posted:Staying in the EU would also kill people. One MP has already been killed for appearing to support immigration, just imagine the backlash if parliament actually did decide to discount the referendum. The fascists are trying to murder us because we're trying to stop them. Thanks for the argument for surrender.
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Feb 1, 2017 00:32
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TinTower posted:Tory MP attacks trans-inclusive medical guide avoiding saying ‘mothers’ as ‘ridiculous’. quote:“If you can’t call a pregnant woman an expectant mother, then what is the world coming to?” he said.  quote:In other reports it is suggested that the pamphlet advises against using “Christian name”, and suggests using “family name” rather than “last name”.
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Feb 1, 2017 00:34
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Guavanaut posted:This one is actually confusing. I would have thought that 'last name' is more inclusive, because you may not have the same last name as your family, for all kinds of reasons. Perhaps because in some cultures the family name isn't the last name?
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Feb 1, 2017 00:38
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Pissflaps posted:Perhaps because in some cultures the family name isn't the last name?
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Feb 1, 2017 00:40
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"given name"
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Feb 1, 2017 00:45
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That seems even more problematic if they're going for trans inclusiveness. I guess you can give yourself something.
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Feb 1, 2017 00:48
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Sovereign name
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Feb 1, 2017 00:49
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Pissflaps posted:Kenneth Clarke's twitter is...interesting Here's the speech he's referring to if anyone's interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60uHy-cUmHw Touches on issues of representative democracy with some humorous remarks sprinkled in, including likening the governments position to Alice in Wonderland.
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Feb 1, 2017 00:50
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TinTower posted:Tory MP attacks trans-inclusive medical guide avoiding saying ‘mothers’ as ‘ridiculous’. Is there an award for being the biggest shithead in parliament? Is there a reason Philip Davies acts like he does? Hates gays, seems to be totally OK with domestic violence, is obviously a complete xenophobe, is a shill of the gambling industry, is a piece of poo poo to the disabled, and yet he's been elected 3 times. With a bigger share of the vote each time. His constituents seem awful.
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Feb 1, 2017 00:57
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Fangz posted:The onus is on the leavers to show that the referendum was especially sacrosanct in a way that means Her Majesty's Opposition should put aside their job to Oppose. Suppose the tories push through a referendum to cut taxes massively or something, do you really expect Labour to just stand back and go, sure okay. I'd want them too, but I imagine it'd be political suicide to oppose it. There's a reason Cameron didn't go "Hah no psyke" after he lost the referendum. It's hard to treat Direct Democracy as an optional suggestion without people coming to the conclusion that the entire system is corrupt.
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Feb 1, 2017 01:06
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New thread up. Happy February.
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Feb 1, 2017 01:06
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