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Cullen's French is fine. As for moving left, well quote:NDP leadership candidate Nathan Cullen says he stands out among his colleagues because he is an “unabashedly” pro-business politician who is prepared to work with the other opposition parties to hold the Conservative government to account. Pinterest Mom fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Feb 1, 2017 |
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Feb 1, 2017 21:49
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 Well isn't my face red.
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Feb 1, 2017 21:50
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gently caress "pro-business" Cullen. Jagmeet at least acknowledges that massive wealth and class divides are a problem which put him to the left of most NDPers who just want to prattle on about how they support small business *THIS* much. I want some of that juicy Jagmeet.
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Feb 1, 2017 21:52
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It just makes me so upset that maybe... MAYBE he'd be honest. But nope, duped again. It just makes me not wanna care at all and turn off the news. Focus on myself and gently caress the world.
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Feb 1, 2017 21:52
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Pinterest Mom posted:
IDK about Helsing but I do love this because it is true that any lip service regarding social justice without addressing the massive and ever growing wealth inequality both nationally and world wide really is just pandering. If this guy were running nationally and actually stuck to his guns about this I'd vote for him in a heartbeat.
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Feb 1, 2017 21:53
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I don't want to come off as dismissing the importance of who is leader because that does matter in a lot of ways but personally I'm distressed by the NDP is basically putting off any talk about the direction or future of the party until the leadership race is in full swing. Most of what went wrong is not, in my opinion, reducible to who was in charge. What kind of party does the NDP actually want to be and what would its goals be once in power? It still just comes off as a more progressive and less corrupt clone of the Liberal party, which means if they ever actually won they'd probably end up governing pretty much the same as Trudeau. Maybe a bit less incompetent, since they'd be facing more pressure to prove themselves, and hopefully a few less cash-for-access scandals, but basically the same. You look at older CCF / very early NDP governments and they actually had a pretty significant day-to-day impact on the lives of the majority of the population when they were in office. Policies, notably healthcare, that we take for granted today were only achieved with long and hard struggle by those previous governments. There seems to be zero prospect that a contemporary NDP government would be like that. In fact we can look at recent NDP governments out west and see they are essentially no different from any other party in most ways. I'll give some kudos to the Alberta NDP for resisting calls to implement major austerity measures but they're still essentially just another party that accepts the permanent existence of poverty and other social ills as something that the government cannot address. Maybe in the 1990s and 2000s when people still believed deep in their bones that we were at the "end of history" this kind of small-ball politics was acceptable. But given what has happened in the US and Europe the idea that nothing outside a very narrow range of status quo options is achievable is no longer plausible. If the NDP can't get its poo poo together they may find within a few years that they are following their western European social democratic counter-parts into the ashbin of history. And it'll be exactly what they deserve.
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Feb 1, 2017 21:54
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Cullen chose not to run and instead focus his efforts on making electoral reform pass which you know (The pro-business thing doesn't look great but it's a little vague to get up in arms about imo, he's also got the charisma and passion to be a good leader, but I guess it's irrelevant because he was pretty clear about not running)
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Feb 1, 2017 21:54
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Cullen's pro-business comments don't really make him stand out much from the rest of the elected party to be honest. We're talking about a party that came as close as it ever came to power in the same year as Occupy Wall Street and mass protests against austerity in Europe. And their reaction was to elect their most right-wing leader for the next election and then to run a campaign around balanced budgets. That's a level of rot that can't just be pinned on one bad leader.
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Feb 1, 2017 21:59
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the term 'pro business' should be met with as much disdain as 'pro middle class' because you know that in both cases they really mean people with too much loving money.
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Feb 1, 2017 22:00
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Also way back in the day the NDP and CCF would actively try to change the minds of voters to support their policies, it was something they'd do between elections and was how they accomplished real things. If anything that was much more important and beneficial work than actually "winning" the election. They had a set of goals and they'd try to sell those goals, to convince people, to change people's minds, to shift the political winds. Today's NPD seems to view people as static things, and just base their policies and campaign around what they think people will currently vote for rather than actually trying to change anyone's views. This makes the party absolutely useless as the liberals already have a lock down on that role as ideological weathervanes.
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Feb 1, 2017 22:01
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"Pro business" doesn't mean anything. Just like "pro middle class".
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Feb 1, 2017 22:05
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"There is no consensus. There is no clear path forward. It would be irresponsible to do something that harms Canada's stability when in fact what we need is moving forward on growth for the middle class." -JT What a loving piece of poo poo. MIDDLE CLASS MIDDLE CLASS. *drowns in vomit*
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Feb 1, 2017 22:06
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I agree about all that NDP stuff including the disdain for labeling oneself "pro-business" but it's not enough for me to write somebody off on that alone without specific policy stuff. I think I remember Jack Layton described himself as pro small business, or something like that. E: I wish less people would identify as middle class
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Feb 1, 2017 22:06
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Baronjutter posted:Also way back in the day the NDP and CCF would actively try to change the minds of voters to support their policies, it was something they'd do between elections and was how they accomplished real things. If anything that was much more important and beneficial work than actually "winning" the election. They had a set of goals and they'd try to sell those goals, to convince people, to change people's minds, to shift the political winds. Today's NPD seems to view people as static things, and just base their policies and campaign around what they think people will currently vote for rather than actually trying to change anyone's views. This makes the party absolutely useless as the liberals already have a lock down on that role as ideological weathervanes. Yeah but this in turn requires interfacing with unions and social movements, which means ceding some control of the party, which is considered suicidal in the context of a modern election where a single "gaffe" is thought to potentially destroy an entire campaign. And in fairness to the NDP the unions are more conservative and social movements are a lot less political and a lot more inclined to either fight issues through the court systems rather than in the streets. That and the whole circular-firing-squad culture that a lot of the left has devolved into make it a much more daunting prospect to actually organize a sustainable social movement that could actually sway people's opinions. That having been said, the barriers facing the people who fought for healthcare or the eight hour work day or various other reforms of the past were often literally being jailed and beaten so it's pretty pathetic how lacking in vision the modern NDP is.
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Feb 1, 2017 22:06
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Small businesses are just businesses that are either going to be big or not good enough to be big. Pro small business is even dumber than pro business.
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Feb 1, 2017 22:07
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MMM Whatchya Say posted:I agree about all that NDP stuff including the disdain for labeling oneself "pro-business" but it's not enough for me to write somebody off on that alone without specific policy stuff. I think I remember Jack Layton described himself as pro small business, or something like that. Jack Layton is largely responsible for the NDP being poo poo and people need to get over this cult of personality that has developed around him. Layton won his original leadership contest by associating himself with the New Politics Initiative which was calling for some fundamental reforms of the party's structure and mission. Once in office he pretty quickly ditched all that and steered the NDP into the third way direction it's followed ever since.
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Feb 1, 2017 22:08
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Tsyni posted:"There is no consensus. There is no clear path forward. It would be irresponsible to do something that harms Canada's stability when in fact what we need is moving forward on growth for the middle class." Astute minds will notice the exact same wording could (and probably will) be applied to Bill C-51 reform, independent of whatever brucio's wife is working on.
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Feb 1, 2017 22:08
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The NDP should just be hammering on the Liberals everyday for the dumb bullshit "middle class" policies they have enacted. Instead Mulcair gets angry about Trump or something and we have re-evaluate our lives through a gendered lens.
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Feb 1, 2017 22:09
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PK loving SUBBAN posted:Astute minds will notice the exact same wording could (and probably will) be applied to Bill C-51 reform, independent of whatever brucio's wife is working on. Well, right after that Trudeau said they are focusing their efforts on cyber-security to protect Canadian elections. Probably need some enhanced policing powers to do that properly. The middle class must be protected.
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Feb 1, 2017 22:12
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True, my original point was that it wasn't totally forgotten. There's stuff going on.
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Feb 1, 2017 22:14
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brucio posted:True, my original point was that it wasn't totally forgotten. There's stuff going on. How's the weed file looking?
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Feb 1, 2017 22:17
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Postess with the Mostest posted:How's the weed file looking? Stamped with Election 2019
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Feb 1, 2017 22:19
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James Baud posted:The street protests so far are basically sore loser tantrums in extremely blue states Thanks—we'd gone far too long in this thread without an utterly clueless Canadian hot take on U.S. politics.
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Feb 1, 2017 22:22
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First time I've called my MP, and have talked a bunch of my friends/co-workers into doing the same. Apparently my Liberal MP has been getting a bunch of calls about it, which is good. Especially with all of the stuff that's been going down on the continent this weekend, I'm just been so angry about things without feeling like I had a productive way to direct it. This seems like a great place to focus it for now.
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Feb 1, 2017 22:23
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Helsing posted:Jack Layton is largely responsible for the NDP being poo poo and people need to get over this cult of personality that has developed around him. Layton won his original leadership contest by associating himself with the New Politics Initiative which was calling for some fundamental reforms of the party's structure and mission. Once in office he pretty quickly ditched all that and steered the NDP into the third way direction it's followed ever since. I don't necessarily disagree. He also gained increased support for the NDP in every federal election. I get the trouble of thinking with that lens, but the Layton NDP was still worth voting for. I think you're also downplaying the last 5 years as well.
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Feb 1, 2017 22:23
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Whatever they do with weed is going to be middle-of-the-road dogshit like C-14 was. Don't assume they aren't going to gently caress this up too.
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Feb 1, 2017 22:27
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MMM Whatchya Say posted:I don't necessarily disagree. He also gained increased support for the NDP in every federal election. I get the trouble of thinking with that lens, but the Layton NDP was still worth voting for. I think you're also downplaying the last 5 years as well. Believe me I did more than just vote for the Layton NDP, I volunteered and donated and did crap at the riding association / convention level. Hell, a younger and more naive version of myself even helped Layton's wife doing some really gross behind-the-scenes stuff to gently caress the more progressive policy initiatives being fought for by the party. In fact I would say participating behind the scenes did more than anything to convince me that all these compromises the party was making weren't in service to any larger goal or agenda beyond getting the people involved into office. A younger and more naive version of myself was totally willing to make compromises in exchange for winning the power to actually improve things. What I was forced to realize, in particular after watching the last Layton era convention in Vancouver, was that the people who have completely destroyed internal democracy in the party aren't doing it out of fidelity to some higher purpose. If they do get into power they'll just be another government and 90% of the population or more proably wouldn't notice any difference in their lives whatsoever.
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Feb 1, 2017 22:31
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James Baud fucked around with this message at 13:03 on Aug 26, 2018 |
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Feb 1, 2017 22:32
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Postess with the Mostest posted:How's the weed file looking? I know you're being cute but there's a branch at Tunney's dedicated to it
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Feb 1, 2017 22:33
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Is this the part where everyone realizes that CI was right? Don't vote.
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Feb 1, 2017 22:35
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Helsing posted:Believe me I did more than just vote for the Layton NDP, I volunteered and donated and did crap at the riding association / convention level. Hell, a younger and more naive version of myself even helped Layton's wife doing some really gross behind-the-scenes stuff to gently caress the more progressive policy initiatives being fought for by the party. In fact I would say participating behind the scenes did more than anything to convince me that all these compromises the party was making weren't in service to any larger goal or agenda beyond getting the people involved into office. A younger and more naive version of myself was totally willing to make compromises in exchange for winning the power to actually improve things. What I was forced to realize, in particular after watching the last Layton era convention in Vancouver, was that the people who have completely destroyed internal democracy in the party aren't doing it out of fidelity to some higher purpose. If they do get into power they'll just be another government and 90% of the population or more proably wouldn't notice any difference in their lives whatsoever. Can't really argue with that. FWIW I'm not saying that I prefer that type of party, just that I'd vote for it.
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Feb 1, 2017 22:39
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Coxswain Balls posted:First time I've called my MP, and have talked a bunch of my friends/co-workers into doing the same. Apparently my Liberal MP has been getting a bunch of calls about it, which is good. Especially with all of the stuff that's been going down on the continent this weekend, I'm just been so angry about things without feeling like I had a productive way to direct it. This seems like a great place to focus it for now. I read your post and did it too. I had nice polite chat about disingenuous politicians feeding right into people's cynicism. The guy said he'd had a few calls about it already and was pretty exasperated sounding fwiw.
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Feb 1, 2017 22:41
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I'm repeating myself here (most of my posts are pretty repetitive now that I think about it) but I guarantee you whatever the Liberals come up with will, in practice, mean more police attention and resources going into enforcing pointless laws about marijuana. Just look at who they appointed to the file and what they put in their campaign pledge:quote:We will legalize, regulate, and restrict access to marijuana. Until now marijuana laws have mostly been a convenient catch-all excuse for the police to stop and search people. Now there is going to be an actual incentive to enforce laws more actively since there will be a for-profit industry probably offering generous donations to police associations or inviting officers to come up to the Muskokas for a fancy weekend retreat where they can hear the industry's latest concerns.
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Feb 1, 2017 22:44
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James Baud posted:The protesters aren't there for some random people held up at immigration, they're there because "GRR, Trump" protest #2 while they're still caught up the excitement from protest #1 Ahhh yes the always winning Whataboutism argument. Just gently caress off with this garbage.
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Feb 1, 2017 22:46
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Lassitude posted:Whatever they do with weed is going to be middle-of-the-road dogshit like C-14 was. Don't assume they aren't going to gently caress this up too. Pretty much anything they do with it is going to gently caress it up from where it sits now, at least in Vancouver. Tons of friendly and knowledgeable shops in walking distance with every product under the sun. Reasonable prices. Many have even dropped the pretense of talking to a "doctor" about your "stress" first. Hell I can get it delivered in a couple hours via an app on my phone if I want. I realize the law/fuzzy lack of law is being enforced differently (even between the different munis in Metro Van) and clarity / regulation is required across the board so we all have the same rules and expectations, but man it's like weed utopia over here in Van Proper if you like the stuff. I'm being selfish!
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Feb 1, 2017 22:58
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It's the same in Victoria, but a place tried to open in langford and was raided by the RCMP the minute it opened.
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Feb 1, 2017 23:00
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James Baud fucked around with this message at 13:03 on Aug 26, 2018 |
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Feb 1, 2017 23:01
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The Butcher posted:Pretty much anything they do with it is going to gently caress it up from where it sits now, at least in Vancouver. This is actually terrible, because all of this poo poo is still illegal. AirBnBs on every corner and Uber for a fraction of the price of taxis is great for consumers too, in the short term.
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Feb 1, 2017 23:02
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James Baud posted:Well, stop pretending tens of thousands of people very much care about whether total strangers get off their planes I think a lot more people than you think care about that.
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Feb 1, 2017 23:02
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TLny6H7frg "I wanted Preferential Ballot, the other parties didn't, so we ain't doing poo poo. Besides, what we REALLY need to focus on is growth for the Middle Class." Do cowardly governments in other countries hide behind the "middle class" as a shield so blatantly?
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Feb 1, 2017 23:02
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