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PotatoManJack posted:My first ever extended character has hit another milestone - just got through Gehenna and got the fiery rune. 13 runes down, 2 to go. The only thing I would watch out for is having a Plan B in Tartarus in case you get silenced by either a silent spectre or Ereshkigal. I don't think you'll have a problem with Dis with that loadout.
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Feb 3, 2017 00:39
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Dis tips: Treat Hell Sentinels with respect, and don't let iron giants get close to you. They will murder you. Everything else is pretty usual fare for demonic extended. Tar tips: Be very afraid of silence. Go around silent specters, have a plan for if they spawn on top of you, and keep Eresh as far away as possible using firestorm. If you're not playing trunk carry a teleport wand, if you are you'll have to rely on haste and things like fan of gales to get clear.
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Feb 3, 2017 03:13
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LordSloth posted:but it won't screw you over like Nightstalker on a DsFE you planned to firestorm with. But nightstalker is amazing for fire magic since you can fireball and firestorm enemies out of LoS. It has a counter-synergy with Vehumet, but even that is more disappointing than anything else. If you start a DsFE and get nightstalker before you pick a god, go with Ashenzari! That will let you sense the monsters past LoS and bomb them safely. The only characters for which nightstalker has a legitimately negative impact are dedicated ranged weapon users, and even then it's pretty small.
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Feb 3, 2017 05:01
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Even a Veh nightstalker is amazing if you get your hands on LCS. What's that? The short range is supposed to be the drawback? 
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Feb 3, 2017 05:05
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Force lance is fantastic for night stalkers. You can knock enemies right out of LoS and completely chump them. The LoS reduction of nightstalker is a negative effect overall for casters, but nightstalker is so powerful that it's still a net gain for your character.
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Feb 3, 2017 05:26
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Combine nightstalker with darkness and lesser beckoning. Experience tiny murder box Crawl.
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Feb 3, 2017 05:42
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It also stacks with robe of night! Back with circle LoS and the lantern of shadows you could get down to one tile vision range on the diagonals.
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Feb 3, 2017 05:44
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Internet Kraken posted:Combine nightstalker with darkness and lesser beckoning. Experience tiny murder box Crawl. Better to just throw in Robe of Night and call it a day. This is what most of that playthrough looked like without putting up umbra/darkness:  I wasn't able to get it down to one tile in trunk, I think the limit is 2 now. Ds is popular because it was designed with a lot of really fun and inventive mutations, and continues to be worked on. You can also pull off some crazy poo poo you couldn't do with any other race with stuff like claws and augmentation. For example, with Robust 3 I was able have 300+ hits for Sword of Power and over 600 hits with dragon form. Some of the muts (spines I am looking at you) used to be absolutely horrible. The only really bad one now is Black Mark, which is baffingly bad compared to any other tier 3 or even any other attack brand. The one I always pray for, especially early, is Ignite Blood. Just so much fun. Got DsAE, DsAr, DsEE, and DsSu left. Not looking forward to any of them. Ds caster starts are pretty much the worst. 
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Feb 3, 2017 07:58
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Hahaha I knew it had to loving happen eventually. Going through Dis, a hell effect petrifies me and drops a bunch of enemies near me. I only have one potion of cancellation and think "well I can't use this here because if I get petrified in front of a hell sentinel I'm hosed". A staircase was right next to me so I thought I could go up it before the petrification took place. Instead I get petrified right on top of it and go from full health to dead. That really felt like a fair death and not frustrating RNG bullshit!  I could of easily 15 runed with that character but now I have to go through the agony of early game SpTm again. And there's no way I'll get as RNG blessed as I did that game with gear. EDIT: Or maybe I'll just play a gargoyle instead I don't loving know. http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/InternetKraken/morgue-InternetKraken-20170203-070216.txt Here's the morgue if you wanna laugh at all the ways I could of avoided death. Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 08:42 on Feb 3, 2017 |
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Feb 3, 2017 08:06
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Internet Kraken posted:Here's the morgue if you wanna laugh at all the ways I could of avoided death. No man that's just an example of Spriggans being heartbreaking sometimes. The only thing I would say is you had the STR to be in heavier armor but it looks like Gozag was not kind with the body armor. And I've gone into hell with a lot worse, you had great resists and defenses for the limited amor slots.
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Feb 3, 2017 09:20
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...Huh. I only looked because it came up, not because it is a good idea (it sure as gently caress is not) but Tara's violent unraveling can cure petrification.
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Feb 3, 2017 10:18
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Would it neutralise Petrification too much if you could delay it or hold it off with Curing?
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Feb 3, 2017 15:41
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LordSloth posted:...Huh. I only looked because it came up, not because it is a good idea (it sure as gently caress is not) but Tara's violent unraveling can cure petrification. Actually the smart thing to do would of been to chug my last cancellation and if I got petrified again later use violent unraveling on myself. Sure it sucks to get mutated but its better than being dead. FulsomFrank posted:Would it neutralise Petrification too much if you could delay it or hold it off with Curing? I mean petrification itself is normally fine. Its restricted to calc clouds which require you to stand in them for a turn to get petrified, so you can always avoid it if you are mindful of positioning. The only other way I can think of to petrify is Jorgrun and you can resist that with MR. Hell effects though? It just starts to petrify you, usually while also dumping a bunch of enemies on top of you. It doesn't even check MR. Honestly its only a few steps removed from the bullshit of hell paralysis.
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Feb 3, 2017 17:10
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Kraken, I think you might be the only person left in the thread who actually plays for a full 15 regularly?
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Feb 3, 2017 18:06
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I play for 15 or bust personally.
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Feb 3, 2017 18:22
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You forget the stereotypical basilisk that shows up around Lair? That's an MR check though, like Jorgrun's spell. Also this is a reminder that Hell effects come from spell school miscasts. That huge glow of contamination comes from the schools Hexes, Charms and two flavours in Transmutations: 0 up to 18 for all four, up to 34! if you get unlucky in the second source in Transmutations. For comparison, yellow glow kicks in between 5 and 15. There's a fourth school that can provide glow (Translocations) but Hell effects disallow it from being used as a miscast source. Petrification, obviously, comes from Earth magic which can ONLY occur in Dis.
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Feb 3, 2017 18:26
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I'm on Lair 4 as a SpEN, 12 in Short Blades, 5.8 in Long Blades with crosstraining. I got the following weapons: +0 Rapier of Venom (no enchant weapon scrolls at all) +8 Demon Sword (electricity, +7 Int) Do I switch to Long Blades for face to face fighting now and use my rapier for stabbing still? What level would I get Long Blades to?
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Feb 3, 2017 18:29
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I died again and I don't want to go back to being a low level wizard again.
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Feb 3, 2017 18:35
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Brendan Rodgers posted:I'm on Lair 4 as a SpEN, 12 in Short Blades, 5.8 in Long Blades with crosstraining. I got the following weapons: Use daggers for stabbing. They have a much higher stabbing bonus than even other short blades. The rapier still has utility for quickly pumping low-dodge enemies full of venom. You can then kite them as they slowly die. That demon blade is great and I would use it.
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Feb 3, 2017 18:43
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Decrepus posted:I died again and I don't want to go back to being a low level wizard again. low level wizard is pain and suffering
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Feb 3, 2017 18:51
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Brendan Rodgers posted:
Same question, but a +7 Longsword {Slice, Int+7} Also, what shops does a Spriggan want from Gozag, or should I wait until I've cleared Orc to spend my cash?
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Feb 3, 2017 18:58
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Speleothing posted:Same question, but a +7 Longsword {Slice, Int+7}
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Feb 3, 2017 19:15
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Switching from shortblades to longblades mid to late game depends a lot on how many other things you're using your experience for, a dump'd be great as well as the general direction you were aiming for. As to Spriggan and Gozag? I'd say keep enough gold on hand for a panic potion petition or two and don't worry too much about the Orc Shops. You'll pull money in at a blindingly fast rate, though it's always better to spend money on actually buying stuff rather than getting more shops. However, the orcish mines would help you make dramatically more efficent shop choices. Having at least one food shop in the game will help if you misjudge your spell hunger or are forced to consume more calories than expected by a branch. A book with Invisibility will be amazing, but it might just turn up on its own in lair. At some time you're probably going to want to branch out from pure hexes, but getting Discord early won't help if you don't have the spellcasting or staff of energy to support the hunger. It's all relative. However, that's kind of unhelpful. Something more practical? While a good weapon or armor are very handy, the armor shops aren't particularly weighted towards stuff you can use, let alone wear so they're a bit more of a gamble than I like. If you're a Felid, Mummy, or have no Artifice mutation, Gozag won't offer a few shop types but other than that it doesn't particularly cater to your needs. Before the mines I'd probably lean towards a distillery or scroll shop - you've got the money to buy useful potions and get a free ID in the bargain. As a matter of personal taste my ranking after that would be Jewellery, General Stores, and Books. A good spellbook is gamechanging, but I hate it when the floorgod offers me the same book a few levels later. A lot of jewellery remains useful even when it's redundant, and general stores keep me from having to commit if I'm not feeling a particular lack in one category.
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Feb 3, 2017 20:19
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Is investing in short blades actually smart nowadays? With cross-training, you'll get all the short blades skills you need for stabbing just by raising long blades. Longblades will serve you A LOT better versus high AC opponents. Everytime I've tried to actually use a short blade as my main weapon I ended up frustrated by the pitiful damage.
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Feb 3, 2017 22:51
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I do it if I'm playing a species with much better SB apts than LB, but even then I transition to skilling LB eventually. Short blades are just hot garbage when you're not stabbing, and you're relying on stabbing less the later in the game you are.
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Feb 3, 2017 23:38
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I had a really good game going with a gargoyle fighter and and then on Lair 4 I mistook a 7 headed hydra sitting in some water for a bush. 
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Feb 4, 2017 01:57
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ChickenWing posted:low level wizard is pain and suffering I don't think it's that bad. Magic dart is great for level 1. Call imps and Blink for level 2 are also really good. With no skill investment, you can usually get an ice imp which will take out adders and other dicks. Blink helps you get back to floor one. Once you have meph cloud and then conjure flame, you've got it made. Either you confuse dudes into your fire or you let your imps peck them apart. If things go south you can flee before the confusion wears off.
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Feb 4, 2017 02:40
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The secret with Wz is that it's best suited to being a hybrid start, not a caster start. Skill accordingly to make earlygame less painful. I mean, you can turn it into a pure caster, but there are better classes to start with if you want to do that. Everything in the startbook screams 'hybrid', while you get jack poo poo for directly damaging spells(aside from Magic Dart, which is useless after the first few floors unless you stumble upon Battlesphere).
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Feb 4, 2017 02:48
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The wizard book is pretty garbage for mana efficiency outside of white imps, and white imps are not especially reliable. Obviously it's a workable spell set but it's a real slog. I think I would actually rank magic dart pretty poorly as far as starting spells go, the damage is just so dire. Starting attack spell ranks imo: #1 Shock Flame tongue Sandblast Pain Freeze Magic dart Sting e: If you include battlesphere synergy dart jumps above pain and freeze but by itself it's bad. Darox fucked around with this message at 02:58 on Feb 4, 2017 |
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Feb 4, 2017 02:51
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Haifisch posted:The secret with Wz is that it's best suited to being a hybrid start, not a caster start. Skill accordingly to make earlygame less painful. For sure. Wiz and IE are my favorite hybrid starts (although I like orc FE for a hybrid bc of sticky flame) Also I love the new ogre stats for a wiz start...
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Feb 4, 2017 03:01
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I'm under the impression that, as a VS, you want to be using a quickblade all game to maximize the amount of bites you do, even into extended. Is this correct, or would that character get a eudaemon blade or something instead?
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Feb 4, 2017 03:44
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Wolfechu posted:http://colinmorris.github.io/blog/dcss_species I'm one of those weirdo ghoul players, although not good enough to have won more than once-ish. It's a very flexible race.
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Feb 4, 2017 04:20
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Panic! at Nabisco posted:I'm under the impression that, as a VS, you want to be using a quickblade all game to maximize the amount of bites you do, even into extended. Is this correct, or would that character get a eudaemon blade or something instead? TL;DR Either is fine if you're not minmaxing. Feel free to switch, or not. Better weapon damage versus half as many bites. You get great bite damage from a quickblade, it triggers more the more you attack. An demon blade or something can still put out some solid damage on its own. It's possible for your regular damage to make up for a fifty percent loss in antimagic bite. Quoting the wiki because it might actually be more informative for once: quote:Damage done: Fangs_level×2 + XL/3 From the learndb: quote:Chance of bite triggering is (str+dex)/49. A sufficiently good sword can make the difference depending on the quality of your quickblade and your stats + skills if you're only looking at damage output, and not antimagic or magic draining. 5 base damage and 0.3 mindelay vs a demon blade's 12 base damage and 0.6 mindelay. Speaking from experience (that turns out to not be as much as I thought after checking my morgues - I only have two games with exactly four runes as my highscores as vine stalkers), you can quite happily carry a quickblade into extended on a vinestalker. If you're curious what skills fifteen rune vine stalker games have maxed first which isn't quite as meaningful as I'd wish: quote:689 games for * (vs nrune=15): 169x Fighting (24.53%), 111x Invocations (16.11%), 81x Unarmed Combat (11.76%), 65x Shields (9.43%), 62x Stealth (9.00%), 38x Short Blades (5.52%), 26x Axes (3.77%), 19x Long Blades (2.76%), 17x Spellcasting (2.47%), 17x Air Magic (2.47%), 17x Armour (2.47%), 12x Translocations (1.74%), 11x Evocations (1.60%), 8x Dodging (1.16%), 7x Necromancy (1.02%), 5x Maces & Flails (0.73%), 5x Throwing (0.73%), 4x Charms (0.58%), 3x Hexes (0.44%), 3x Polearms (0.44%), 3x Earth Magic (0.44%), 2x Staves (0.29%), Ice Magic (0.15%), Conjurations (0.15%), Transmutations (0.15%), Summonings (0.15%)
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Feb 4, 2017 04:34
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PMush Perfect posted:Kraken, I think you might be the only person left in the thread who actually plays for a full 15 regularly?
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Feb 4, 2017 04:43
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I've stopped going for all 15 just because it's such a slog, especially the Hells. My last win just did two Hell branches, plus Slime, Tomb and Abyss.
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Feb 4, 2017 05:24
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I usually aim for fifteen runes and give up around six.
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Feb 4, 2017 05:48
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I only bother with 15 for tournament points these days. It just feels really pointless since most of your skilling is for shits and giggles, you're increasingly unlikely to find equipment/spells better than what you already have(which makes the endvault piles of loot less exciting than they should be), you've already bought everything of note from the shops, 90% of the enemies are repetitive poo poo drawn from the undead & demonic categories, etc. It really feels like an artifact from when the game as a whole was a lot longer.
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Feb 4, 2017 05:51
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I'll be honest, the main reason I almost always go for 15 runes is because I have an obsession with collecting as many unique skill titles as possible. Hard to do that without a glut of experience points. Also I'll echo that wizards are a good start for hybrids. I'd go so far as to say they are one of the better starts in the game. The wizard starting book contains many useful spells and gives you a solution for tons of problems, so you aren't as reliant on floor god. Mephitic cloud can neutralize tons of monsters and most of the things immune to it can be killed with conjure flame. Repel missiles and blink stay useful for literally the entire game and every character that casts magic wants them. The main weakness of the start is that casting all those spells requires you to spread exp thin, so wizard isn't good for a species that has bad apts in a lot of magic schools. Also as others have covered, its a terrible start for anyone aiming to go blaster mage since magic dart is poo poo.
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Feb 4, 2017 05:52
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I just enjoy fighting the Pan and Hell lords and the gauntlet that is Tomb. If hell branches were shortened to just two or one levels I wouldn't mind to much.
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Feb 4, 2017 06:48
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GreyjoyBastard posted:I'm one of those weirdo ghoul players, although not good enough to have won more than once-ish. It's a very flexible race. It's interesting that ghoul is the least popular race but also has one of the highest win rates. I guess basically the only people that play them are the ones that know what they're doing.
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Feb 4, 2017 08:39
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