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Internet Kraken posted:I'll be honest, the main reason I almost always go for 15 runes is because I have an obsession with collecting as many unique skill titles as possible. Hard to do that without a glut of experience points. Actually, I find wizard to be the least XP hungry book start and perfectly fine on poor casting apt starts. You do have to adjust your strategy depending, though. For most wizards, I take conjurations to 4-5 and spellcasting to 4, which gets you a good enough magic dart to handle the first few floors, blink, repel missiles, and meph cloud castable by xl 3, conjure flame castable by xl 5 and enough MP to use your spells. Then you start training a weapon. By comparison, with other good hybrid starts, I typically take 7 or so in a main skill, e.g. ice magic, 4 in an off skill, e.g. summoning, and around 5 spellcasting. VM and Ne can get by with just 7 in one skill and the spellcasting. For wizards with poo poo aptitudes, or at least poo poo conj, I usually ignore magic dart and rely on summon imp to handle early levels. Even at very low power you often get a white imp, which destroys everything through d:4. So you only need maybe a point or two in air, fire and poison and some spellcasting, which you can get while simultaneously training a weapon skill.
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Feb 4, 2017 08:48
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What's the best time to do summoning? About sixfirhy.
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Feb 4, 2017 12:36
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PMush Perfect posted:What's the best time to do summoning? 
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Feb 4, 2017 16:22
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e: On the subject of Wz hybrids, who would be the closest replacement for a HEWz hybrid with Long Swords and a bunch of utility spells? I'd love the ability to play ascii online with that chat panel the webtiles online has, am I missing something or is it not possible? I know it'd need to be in the actual terminal code of the game for that as opposed to some web poo poo but surely there's some space on the bottom right that's perfect for them to add this. Maybe do that instead of removing High Elves and Sludge Elves which I quite liked playing, dunno who they were hurting by being there as options. Brendan Rodgers fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Feb 4, 2017 |
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Feb 4, 2017 21:45
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man, i know troves have always been Portals of Disappointment and all, but with the rod changes, evoker overhauls generally and removal of positive wands getting the Evoker Trove feels like more of a waste of time/energy than it ever has and i get them so commonly, too 
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Feb 4, 2017 22:20
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Brendan Rodgers posted:e: On the subject of Wz hybrids, who would be the closest replacement for a HEWz hybrid with Long Swords and a bunch of utility spells? HuWz. HaWz (favouring Charms and Translocations). Barachian Wizard (trunk only). MfWz. DrWz. Joke option Vampire Wizard.
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Feb 4, 2017 22:54
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Brendan Rodgers posted:e: On the subject of Wz hybrids, who would be the closest replacement for a HEWz hybrid with Long Swords and a bunch of utility spells?
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Feb 4, 2017 23:18
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"Oh what, can't win with a Spriggan because you're a big dumb idiot? Here you go baby, have the easiest free win ever." http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/InternetKraken/morgue-InternetKraken-20170204-201630.txt I mean I did play this combo because I wanted a more relaxing game, but I don't think the game could of coddled me any harder. Even when I got mutated in Pan the mutations actually made my character better  World Famous W posted:Tengu, with a focus on conjuration, summoning, air, and necromancy as your spells. God no. Lots of utility spells are out of the tengu's reach since they are miserable with charms, hexes, and translocations. Those were all schools the HeWz start did really well with.
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Feb 5, 2017 01:37
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I've got a pretty good start as a monstrous DsGl of Hep and don't want to gently caress it up with improper ancestor choice. The wiki says hexer is noticeably better than the other two, does that still hold in current trunk? Does it still work for a heavy armor clawmans?
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Feb 5, 2017 01:44
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Internet Kraken posted:God no. Lots of utility spells are out of the tengu's reach since they are miserable with charms, hexes, and translocations. Those were all schools the HeWz start did really well with.  I'll give ya' translocation though.
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Feb 5, 2017 01:52
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hexer is real decent, especially if you lean on invo to make idealize or whatever it's called buff your buddy's spellpower real good, but i have no idea how you could possibly call it better than battlemage, unless you're playing a stabber or something? nb: i'm real bad at crawl. hep might be my favorite god right now though, or at least definitely up there.
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Feb 5, 2017 01:55
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If it makes a difference, I've got Demonic Guardian, which might give battlemage some LoS issues.
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Feb 5, 2017 01:57
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World Famous W posted:What high level charms spell do you need now that Haste isn't castable? Also hexes is the second worst spell tree. Death's door and ring of flames are both good spells. Hexes has silence and darkness. Discord is also good but really hard to get castable without a very large investment, even for a high elf. Spectral weapon, one of the best hybrid spells, also has a stronger dependence on spellpower in recent versions. I'm not saying TeWz doesn't work but its gonna play way differently than a typical HeWz would since their apts are very different.
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Feb 5, 2017 02:00
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Pretty much only time I train charms anymore is to get minimal support for something like Ring of Flames or to power Spectral Weapon. I would go hexer on the DsGl. With claws you are doing mainly single target melee. The guardian and hexer will work together to limit the # of foes you have to fight at once. Train and use Transference, the guardian is a nice added bonus target for that power. Let me just say again that ignite blood is AWESOME. making GBS threads my pants over how my weak rear end is going to take on Shoals or Snake then I find book of transfigurations so I dive elf to either die or get statform online. Then just as I get it going, ignite blood kicks in and now it's all:  AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA why do people play demonspawns they asked...
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Feb 5, 2017 02:24
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http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/PanicAtNabisco/PanicAtNabisco.txt Would appreciate input on what to do with this guy. I'm afraid of orc high priests, with -20% HP and smiting weakness, and I still don't know what my other tier 2 and tier 3 mutations are. Demonic guardian is still level 1 so it's not worth much more than chaff atm. Feeling some trepidation about heading to orc. e: -10% HP, I forgot about the accidental cMut that also got rid of my natural rPois. 
Panic! at Nabisco fucked around with this message at 03:09 on Feb 5, 2017 |
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Feb 5, 2017 03:04
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Sage Grimm posted:HuWz. HaWz (favouring Charms and Translocations). Barachian Wizard (trunk only). MfWz. DrWz. Joke option Vampire Wizard. HaWz, Barachian Wizard and MfWz all have weak int and will have a really hard time casting at the power of HEWz. They are solidly on the opposite end of the hybrid spectrum from HE, using limited magic to bolster strong defense and melee. HuWz and DrWz are closer, but still lack the apts and stats to accomplish the same thing. They are overall more powerful than HE was, though, you just have to focus a lot more on one type of casting. TeWz might be closest but not only do the apts push you in a very different direction, TE has power, but lacks HE's flexibility. Also, -20% HP is awful. Ds hybrids are just as fun as HE was, but for quite different reasons. I find vampire sort of scratches the same itch as high elf. You have HE-lite stats (above average int and dex), but good HP and either fast regen or strong built-in resistances and stealth. Hexes are good and fun, give you a feeling of really kicking rear end at high spellpower and offer the biggest toolbox of any school. A high hexes aptitude is way cooler than high charms. You also lack the flexibility of HE, but don't feel the lack quite so much because you're super strong in the utility school. I proposed a "replacement species" for HE on the tavern and even coded it, but was unsure of the balance and couldn't quite work up the courage to be rejected by ##crawl-dev. It had HE stats, HP and XL growth, but to distinguish it, it got +3 spellcasting, slightly low overall schools, double MP costs and a spellpower boost. The idea was that they'd be incredible casters who could pick up a big range of spells, but had a hard tactical limit on what they could cast, like spriggan has a hard strategic limit. So, they have to fall back on their good combat apts much sooner because they run out of MP easily. They got some auxiliary attacks to make close combat a little more attractive than it was for HE, especially early.
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Feb 5, 2017 03:09
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Cyno branch is now updated on CBRO! Since the species has changed a decent bit, here's a new species summary: Cynos Cynos are humonids with the heads of dogs. They are quick to train the basics of any skill, but struggle to master any. Attributes: 7 Str/8 Int/9 Dex +0% HP/+0 MP/-2 XP/+3 MR per level Aptitudes: "+0" flat aptitude (see below for details) Mutations: You have a short attention span - You are very excited and quick to learn new skills, but grow disinterested in them the longer you train them. Your aptitude for any skill is dependent on how many skill points you currently have in that skill, based on the table below: code:Strong Nose - Three level species mutation. You can sniff out items and monsters in a 3/5/7 tile radius. Given at XL 1/XL 11/XL 22. Future updates may have me adjust the starting apittude/aptitude difference/distance between steps for the XP chart to adjust for difficulty, as well as possibly modifying the aptitudes from flat 0 to a slight bump up/down wherever I feel a dog joke is appropriate and it won't heavily impact skilling. Please provide feedback if you do decide to play it!
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Feb 5, 2017 03:13
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I still say that Cyno mechanics (minus the nose - change it to something ear-related, or give them an innate pip of MR+ or something..?) should be used for a race called "High Elves".
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Feb 5, 2017 03:32
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Brendan Rodgers posted:Maybe do that instead of removing High Elves and Sludge Elves which I quite liked playing, dunno who they were hurting by being there as options. The best argument for species removal that I've seen is that more species creates more of an intellectual load on the player. A huge wall of choices right at the beginning of the game is overwhelming, especially considering how many species Crawl gives you already, and it's overly demanding to figure out exactly what they all do beyond their short description, especially if the differences between them aren't very big. So there has to be an upper limit to the number of species, and since it would be nice to add species that are more strongly distinguished and interesting in the future, it's necessary to remove those that are found less interesting at present. I completely agree with that. But, I don't think HE was less interesting, especially than something like Ha. The devs have made several revisions to Ha to save it by distinguishing it from kobolds, however I still don't think it offers a particularly interesting niche.
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Feb 5, 2017 03:42
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Heithinn Grasida posted:I proposed a "replacement species" for HE on the tavern and even coded it, but was unsure of the balance and couldn't quite work up the courage to be rejected by ##crawl-dev. It had HE stats, HP and XL growth, but to distinguish it, it got +3 spellcasting, slightly low overall schools, double MP costs and a spellpower boost. The idea was that they'd be incredible casters who could pick up a big range of spells, but had a hard tactical limit on what they could cast, like spriggan has a hard strategic limit. So, they have to fall back on their good combat apts much sooner because they run out of MP easily. They got some auxiliary attacks to make close combat a little more attractive than it was for HE, especially early. Why not just give them low MP, instead of a custom double MP mechanic?
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Feb 5, 2017 04:12
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Brendan Rodgers posted:e: On the subject of Wz hybrids, who would be the closest replacement for a HEWz hybrid with Long Swords and a bunch of utility spells? No. There is an in-game messaging system exclusive only to ascii players and viewers that (un)fortunately has no crossover with the webtiles chat. On the other hand, it is entirely possible to play the game in ASCII and spectate your own game in webtiles without any conflict, even using webchat. There is one streamer on twitch that plays in ascii but captures webtiles for viewers.
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Feb 5, 2017 04:18
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 This is insulting. EDIT: There was another foodshop I missed in the screenshot too. Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 05:01 on Feb 5, 2017 |
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Feb 5, 2017 04:58
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PleasingFungus posted:Why not just give them low MP, instead of a custom double MP mechanic? That occurred to me and it would be a lot more elegant. But I'd need to look more at how MP is handled in general. I'd be worried that, say, -30% MP wouldn't really be restrictive enough and you'd be able to overcome it too easily if you found a ring of magical power or a staff of power. Not that I think it's terrible if it's possible for the player to overcome the restriction at all, but if it were too easy then I'd be worried that high int, +3 spellcasting and +30% spellpower by level 12 (completely arbitrary) would make them too good. As it is, because of their +2 base MP and high spellcasting, they almost don't feel the difference with book starts at very low levels, but you really have to think about when you want to cast your higher level spells, which I really like. I am worried double MP is too much, though. Another, less good reason is that I was worried low MP wouldn't be weird and different enough to sell.
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Feb 5, 2017 04:58
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This seems really neat and I might actually peel myself away from CAO to try it out.
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Feb 5, 2017 07:25
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Ferrinus posted:I still say that Cyno mechanics (minus the nose - change it to something ear-related, or give them an innate pip of MR+ or something..?) should be used for a race called "High Elves".
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Feb 5, 2017 07:35
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IronicDongz posted:cute dogs>>>>>>>>>elves You have a point
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Feb 5, 2017 08:16
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I just got my third rune for the first time since I came back to crawl, and I feel like this guy is strong enough to take on at least some, if not all, of the extended endgame. I haven't done it in literal years, though, so I would appreciate any advice I could get re: what to do with him. My thought was I could swap to TSO, run through crypt with an amulet of faith on to get his piety up to max, bless that antimagic quickblade into one of holy wrath so I can actually use it, then switch to Zin and get going into the endgame?
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Feb 5, 2017 08:35
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Panic! at Nabisco posted:I just got my third rune for the first time since I came back to crawl, and I feel like this guy is strong enough to take on at least some, if not all, of the extended endgame. I haven't done it in literal years, though, so I would appreciate any advice I could get re: what to do with him. My thought was I could swap to TSO, run through crypt with an amulet of faith on to get his piety up to max, bless that antimagic quickblade into one of holy wrath so I can actually use it, then switch to Zin and get going into the endgame? I'd either skip the TSO step, or convert a demon blade/whip instead. The AM quickblade is OK to support your bite and a holy quickblade is still bad at doing damage itself. Zin is great at handling things you don't want to fight - try to remember all of Recite/Imprison/Sanctuary as options in any difficult area, and use Vit liberally. also, use the +6 dagger "Jellyslayer" {pierce, +Inv Dex+4} to stab big things and +inv.
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Feb 5, 2017 08:51
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It looks like you haven't done depths yet. I would do that first. Holy wrath won't help you much there, though it honestly feels like icing on the cake for a vinestalker anyway. I typically only do the TSO switch after clearing Zot, but I can see doing it earlier. Don't underestimate the wrath, though! If you switch late, you could just stick with TSO. I think Zin is more fun, but isn't necessarily better. Vitalization is super nice for VS, though, since the bite benefits strongly from high stats. Zin is also helpful everywhere if you decide to switch early, but is heavily dependent on invocations.
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Feb 5, 2017 08:54
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rchandra posted:I'd either skip the TSO step, or convert a demon blade/whip instead. The AM quickblade is OK to support your bite and a holy quickblade is still bad at doing damage itself. Zin is great at handling things you don't want to fight - try to remember all of Recite/Imprison/Sanctuary as options in any difficult area, and use Vit liberally. Short blade converts well into long blade mastery, but I've yet to find a demon blade in my game. Couple of demon tridents in shoals and a demon whip in vaults, but that's it. I have a manual of polearms, would training that up from 0 to use a trishula be at all worth it? Heithinn Grasida posted:It looks like you haven't done depths yet. I would do that first. Holy wrath won't help you much there, though it honestly feels like icing on the cake for a vinestalker anyway. I typically only do the TSO switch after clearing Zot, but I can see doing it earlier. Don't underestimate the wrath, though! Panic! at Nabisco fucked around with this message at 08:58 on Feb 5, 2017 |
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Feb 5, 2017 08:55
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Panic! at Nabisco [Shop] Kojaet's Antique Armour Boutique - a couple items that may have egos a pair of embroidered boots (388 gold) a runed helmet (388 gold) [Shop] Lukim's Magic Scroll Boutique - a co a scroll of recharging (123 gold) a scroll of silence (97 gold) Noted: Lack of Sacks of Spiders, Boxes of Beasts. Trunk, so no rods of shadows. Suggestion: Grab reusable elemental evokers like lamp of fire, phial of water, fan of gales, stone of tremors. I am uncertain whether having more than one of a type stacks, I vaguely think they don't. Optionally useful for Slime: Scrolls of immolation, staked rF. Hindsight: Weird order you followed, but anything that lets you live through and clear V5 is nothing to bitch about. Branches: Dungeon (13/15) Elf (0/3) Orc:2 Vaults (5/5) D:13 Crypt (0/3). Normally either Vaults5 or Elf3 is the penultimate stop on 3-runer before Zot. From Learndb Sorear[6]: Do the closest level that you can handle. Use your brain. Clearing V5? Passed with flying colors. Hyperelliptic: Lair -> D:12 -> Orc -> D:15 -> S:3 -> maybe other S:3 -> get rune -> Vaults:4 -> maybe get second rune -> Depths:5 -> get three runes -> Zot I often throw in Crypt before Depths, and Elf before Vaults:5 (or after). I don't know whether I've gotten better or Elf's gotten less dangerous so take that final recommendation with a grain of salt. Whether that order's useful to you or not, I'd probably finish the dungeons first, test out the Crypts, and then review whether you're ready for the Elven Halls (either slightly better resists or a lot more wands and aggressive Trog's Hand use). Either way, poking your head into the Depths should push you considerably closer to Level 27 and more hp/mp but it can go bad quickly there so put off Elf or Depths till you're at the top of your game. My favorite 4th rune to get is the Slime Pits - I just love any excuse to use immolation, the easiest should be Abyss with your regeneration and stealth. Your current resists are not heavily enough skewed to recommend a particular hell, Pandemonium would likely be the third set of runes you start hunting for after that. Interesting: A manual of shields. Boring: Not even any slightly unordinary shields even after V5. LordSloth fucked around with this message at 09:24 on Feb 5, 2017 |
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Feb 5, 2017 09:22
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Honestly, I had a harder time with Shoals than V:5  I stairdanced the entire opening ambush without too much difficulty. It's only a max of 8 enemies at once, and you can quaff haste beforehand and then berserk.
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Feb 5, 2017 09:26
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Also, have you ever seen Trog wrath before? It is 'exciting' and one of the longer lasting ones. You may find it impacting your fun, survival may impact your short term plans
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Feb 5, 2017 09:31
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I've lived through Trog wrath before, long ago, when I played a heavy armor MiBe who transferred to TSO to do extended. It was mostly just some berserked guys, which are annoying but not incredibly terrible if you have a way to get away and wait for them to un-berserk.
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Feb 5, 2017 09:32
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If you're planning to do all 15 runes there's no reason to do abyss before the rest of extended. Its not as dangerous as other extended branches but its very unlikely to increase your power at all. More importantly you can pick up some lovely mutations from the plethora of neqocexs that love to wander around in it. Panic! at Nabisco posted:Short blade converts well into long blade mastery, but I've yet to find a demon blade in my game. Couple of demon tridents in shoals and a demon whip in vaults, but that's it. I have a manual of polearms, would training that up from 0 to use a trishula be at all worth it? Demon blades are super common once you start doing extended. Hell knights carry them all the time. They can show up in depths sometimes, but if you don't get any from them then take a dip into the Vestibule of Hell. There's almost always hell knights in there. You can trivalize the Vestibule by running to the walls and using a wand of digging to create a murder hole. Unless you got the one Vestibule layout with no diggable walls in which case you'll have to stairdance a lot. TBh the thing I'm most worried about when it comes to this character is that if you abandon Trog you'll being going through dangerous areas under his wrath. Trog wrath is really nasty and I see no easy solution to surviving enemy drops on this character.
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Feb 5, 2017 09:35
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Internet Kraken posted:If you're planning to do all 15 runes there's no reason to do abyss before the rest of extended. Its not as dangerous as other extended branches but its very unlikely to increase your power at all. More importantly you can pick up some lovely mutations from the plethora of neqocexs that love to wander around in it.
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Feb 5, 2017 09:36
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IronicDongz posted:cute dogs>>>>>>>>>elves If only we could have both.... Abyss isn't that bad, just pay attention to what spawns and if you see any terrain that doesn't look randomly generated investigate, its probably a rune vault. Or be one of the cool people that find the rune 3 steps from where they entered, either plan works.
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Feb 5, 2017 09:48
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Don't get me wrong, Abyss ain't 'hard' as long as you don't dive past three (early banishment aside), it's that I find it as tedious as a lot of posters here seem to find Pan. Which is weird cause I dig Pan.
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Feb 5, 2017 09:56
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I would probably clear D and stick your finger into Depths, if you've cleared V5 you're smart enough to not turn dancing the depths entry into a goddamn disaster. Similarly you have an invis dagger so you can also clear Elf 1-2 and hall of blades. By that point you can probably handle Trog's wrath, go TSO, clear Crypt for piety. Hard to not have a demon blade by then and hopefully you can rebrand that QB. Char clearly isn't ready for extended now so at that point you should be able to make a more informed decision. If so, then you can go Zin to make the best of the Hells. Vs is very strong late and my focus on stats/gear skills is always maximizing the effectiveness of the bite. After that more MP because the higher your MP the less damage you take proportionally to your HP.
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Feb 5, 2017 10:00
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Speaking of extended, here's another  REMOVE GLOW post for ya. 3 extremely awful muts from hell glow. Only had two cancellation pots and I hadn't cleared Dis yet so I was too afraid to use them. Which was smart, as this happended in Dis.   World Famous W posted:Don't get me wrong, Abyss ain't 'hard' as long as you don't dive past three (early banishment aside), it's that I find it as tedious as a lot of posters here seem to find Pan. I like Pan but it gets pretty annoying when you go through dozens of floors with no rune. Once you have the demonic rune there's no incentive to actually clear regular floors too. I heard trunk might be changing Pan so that killing Pan lords actually makes the fixed rune floors more likely to show up, which would be a great change. Abyss is just boring for an extended character. Its not dangerous unless you go to Abyss:5 and there's no reason to do that because the enemy spawn rate is so ridiculous you'll waste more time fighting than you would of saved by the increased rune spawn chance.
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Feb 5, 2017 10:31
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