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Coolguye posted:they're currently screwing around with dudes between me and them so it sounds like this will be done for me to some extent. they awoke really really early this game so i guess my best bet is to start a war of liberation and try to force a favorable peace while i've got a chance of doing something One other thing to try - their transports will follow their doomstacks. So if you time it just right and they are focusing on you, you can ambush their transport stack right after their doomstack jumps out of a system. How much that will slow them down, I'm in the process of finding out, but the AI has seemed slow to build transports in my experience so I'm hopeful they'll just bomb ineffectually after that.
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Feb 5, 2017 23:17
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Slaves give an OK bonus to food and mineral production, but it comes at a pretty large happiness penalty for them and for everyone else on the planet (unless you're specifically collectivist/xenophobe), and they're completely useless at power/science production. So yes, slaves are a shittier workforce in this game every single time, barring those specific traits and some micromanagement. The penalties they give are much higher than the bonuses. Likewise, like in my RPG example, going above "100%" happiness should do what exactly? Right now, going below reduces your pop's production (and in extreme cases causes other issues), going above increases it. This is good, both because it is intuitive, and because otherwise there'd be no point in building happiness buildings on a bunch of planets at all, since your guys are "happy enough". It's a good mechanic and it should stay. If there's extra bonuses on top of extreme happiness (like there is with extreme unrest) that's fine too though.
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Feb 5, 2017 23:18
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Splicer posted:Why is it super dumb? Because its boring. It does nothing to actually change the way you play or approach the game as a result. Also the bonus is minimal after you consider the resources and opportunity costs of achieving it. A diplomacy bonus would be more exciting than yet another minimal resource bonus for which you need to build a complex spreadsheet to figure out if its even a bonus at all As a placeholder its better than nothing but woth the rework implied by the next update I am hoping they replace it with something a lot more fun GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Feb 5, 2017 |
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Feb 5, 2017 23:19
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I kinda wish I could tell a sector to prioritize both energy and research instead of just one of them.
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Feb 5, 2017 23:26
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Split it into two sectors, tell one to prioritise research, the other power? 
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Feb 5, 2017 23:26
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Truga posted:Yeah you're right, that's why all the world superpowers run on slaves, because slaves are more productive Until relatively historically recently, this is not an inaccurate statement. eta: If we want to argue from history, I'd say that happiness should be basically irrelevant to slave productivity, but extremely relevant to how many resources you feel the need to devote to building armies to prevent/quell uprisings. GunnerJ fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Feb 5, 2017 |
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Feb 5, 2017 23:44
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Anticheese posted:Question for the devs: Can we please get the ability to rename factions? Only if this can trigger an event where the faction finds out what the leaders refer to them as and holds demonstrations about the leader's double-faced speak. I'm digging all these planned unity additions. I'm not sure why anyone would really love paradise domes as a pacifist though; they're basically needed to cancel out the unhappiness from being in the 'unrestricted wars' policy 24/7. Also, pacifist empires are just frustrating to play as due to the happiness penalties for being at war (because the only way to "win" is to war everything to death).
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Feb 5, 2017 23:43
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Until there's a way to meaningfully interact with other empires beyond warring with them, the game cannot really be played in a pacifist manner.
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Feb 6, 2017 00:15
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Half-wit posted:Only if this can trigger an event where the faction finds out what the leaders refer to them as and holds demonstrations about the leader's double-faced speak. Instant and irreconcilable civil war should erupt if you every include the word "Individualist" or "Collectivist" in your designation.
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Feb 6, 2017 00:17
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ProfessorCirno posted:Until there's a way to meaningfully interact with other empires beyond warring with them, the game cannot really be played in a pacifist manner. Based on the Wiz comment that players dont like problems with counters that arent shooty laser based, combined with him not liking victories that arent military based, combined with him not liking the idea of victory being applied in a non zero sum way... I do have a lot of hope for this game, but satisfying pacifist themed gameplay is definitely not among them. I sort of get the feeling that Wiz basically doesnt believe players who like non military solutions and goals exist, or least in numbers significant enough to try and cater to. (I base this on him actually questoning whether people who like economic and tech victories in other games are real) Even if he was convinced they were worth appealing too I am not sure he grasps the mindset well enough to design as well for it as he does for the rest, but hey, I would love to be pleasantly surprised here! GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 00:35 on Feb 6, 2017 |
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Feb 6, 2017 00:31
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Mister Adequate posted:Instant and irreconcilable civil war should erupt if you every include the word "Individualist" or "Collectivist" in your designation. This would be the funniest easter egg ever.
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Feb 6, 2017 00:41
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For economic and tech victories, it's tough because the map you play on is a territory map. What it tracks is military strength and expansion, not economic or technological success. So it's hard to see who else is performing well and how.
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Feb 6, 2017 00:47
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Beefeater1980 posted:For economic and tech victories, it's tough because the map you play on is a territory map. What it tracks is military strength and expansion, not economic or technological success. So it's hard to see who else is performing well and how. If he was open to considering non exclusive victories as victories on par with he current military victories (which are basically just an arbitrary congrats you won popup) then that would be completely irrelevant. :V Its the specific combination of different things rather than any specific one of them
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Feb 6, 2017 00:51
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GlyphGryph posted:A diplomacy bonus would be more exciting than yet another minimal resource bonus for which you need to build a complex spreadsheet to figure out if its even a bonus at all I think you might legit be happier playing other games. Maybe some European board games? I'm not trying to be condescending, or tell you to get the gently caress out of my precious thread, either. If you're almost entirely concerned about which options have the best mechanical benefit and you don't care about the flavor at all, this might not be the game for you. There's certainly room for both philosophies in this game, and Paradox tries to cater to both sides of the equation (which is cool and good, good job guys), but from this comment in specific and your comments on the subject in general, it truly seems like you don't see someone just wanting to be in charge of a Happy Empire instead of a Sad Empire as a legitimate reason to take the option. Even if everyone agreed that empire happiness was a straight-up suboptimal option, which they don't, as long as it's close enough it's fine. John Lee fucked around with this message at 02:58 on Feb 6, 2017 |
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Feb 6, 2017 01:01
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drat, fallen empires do not gently caress around. Militant Isolationists: "decolonize our border systems right now you little poo poo" Me, leading an empire of repugnant and extremely adaptive cockroach people: "up yours lol" 
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Feb 6, 2017 01:06
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GlyphGryph posted:this is as untrue as it is seemingly irrelevant
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Feb 6, 2017 01:12
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John Lee posted:If you're almost entirely concerned about which options have the best mechanical benefit and you don't care about the flavor at all, this might not be the game for you. I'm not trying to be condescending, or tell you to get the gently caress out of my precious thread, but if this is how you've been reading my posts, you haven't understood any of them, ever, since literally the most common thing I've suggested as better rewards than number twiddling is more unique events and flavour stuff.
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Feb 6, 2017 01:33
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Like I specifically just finished explaining how whether or not the benefit is powerful has nothing to do with whether i think it would be good. With an explicit example of how a powerful benefit would be lovely even though it was strong, because what I really want is mechanics that supporting engaging, interesting, flavourful interaction with those elements over tweaking a few numbers. I am someone who literally always picks Xenophile or Xenophobe because I love their respective flavour texts for so many events. I have lost every multiplayer game I've played (at least as the game defines winning and losing) and badly because I stick to my gimmick through thick and thin. "Best mechanical benefit" is absolutely the furthest thing from my mind, and the current happiness mechanic doesn't even offer that - it certainly doesn't offer any rewards that someone playing a happiness empire because they want their people to genuinely be happy would care about. And that's what I would love them to implement. Happiness based events. Faction stuff that is influenced in and based on happiness. Getting treated differently by other Empires, having aliens breaking down your doors to get in (not for the mechanical benefit, either, but just because it would make me happy to know that my people are so happy everyone else wants a piece of it). I don't want happiness to be powerful, I want it to be engaging. Completely different. I don't know how you got what you wrote from my posts, but I think you completely missed my point. GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 02:46 on Feb 6, 2017 |
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Feb 6, 2017 01:40
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Pittsburgh Lambic posted:drat, fallen empires do not gently caress around. The best part is when the 'border systems' include most of your core worlds, including your home planet Fun times
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Feb 6, 2017 02:01
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CrazyTolradi posted:While game mechanics don't have to perfectly mirror real life, it's a pretty simple psychological concept that the happier someone is, the more productive they are likely to be at their job. John Lee posted:I think you might legit be happier playing other games. Maybe some European board games? It succeeds in some parts and fails abysmally in others. Happiness is a policies, very few buildings and habitability working together for a mechanic you'd be forgiven for not even noticing unless you happen to be one of the few unduly hosed over by it (Spiritualists and Pacifists doing robots or war or freedom lovers doing slavery) The rest of the time its a tepid system you don't much notice Deceitful Penguin fucked around with this message at 02:49 on Feb 6, 2017 |
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Feb 6, 2017 02:43
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Edit: Nevermind. No one has submitted in a while, so I'm gonna focus on putting together that species pack now instead of arguing about poo poo. GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 02:53 on Feb 6, 2017 |
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Feb 6, 2017 02:48
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GlyphGryph posted:I'm not trying to be condescending, or tell you to get the gently caress out of my precious thread, but if this is how you've been reading my posts, you haven't understood any of them, ever, since literally the most common thing I've suggested as better rewards than number twiddling is more unique events and flavour stuff. No need to be snide about it. My claims of legitimacy were not a double-blind sarcastic snipe. And i was just judging your posts entirely based on the past two pages; I don't check this thread often and I don't know you, so I couldn't judge based on your posting history here or anything. GlyphGryph posted:I don't know how you got what you wrote from my posts, but I think you completely missed my point. This is entirely possible. GlyphGryph posted:Happiness based events. Faction stuff that is influenced in and based on happiness. Getting treated differently by other Empires, having aliens breaking down your doors to get in (not for the mechanical benefit, either, but just because it would make me happy to know that my people are so happy everyone else wants a piece of it). I don't want happiness to be powerful, I want it to be engaging. Completely different. See, I'm totally behind you here. I'd love for more stuff like this. I apologize if I got on your nerves, and I wasn't implying that you were a lovely person or a hypocrite or anything. I decided to skim through and saw posts like this: GlyphGryph posted:Third, yeah a 20% increase in production from a feature you basically have to shape your whole empire around to achieve actually is super lovely and we arent even getting that GlyphGryph posted:It actually does a real lovely job at making happiness useful and by its very nature as like a fourth order widespread benefit it is super hard to balance too. GlyphGryph posted:Because its boring. It does nothing to actually change the way you play or approach the game as a result. And I'm sure you can see why this certainly makes it SOUND like you're advocating entirely around mechanical benefits. If you still disagree, then I suppose that's how it is, but there's no ill will coming from my end.
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Feb 6, 2017 03:09
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lol didn't wiz even say they were loathe to show these things because of this exact response from theorycrafters
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Feb 6, 2017 03:19
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I honestly don't think happiness needs to be some majorly deep, detailed and fidelitous mechanic. Less is bad, more is better works fine enough and has done so for most 4x games. Not every feature needs to be immersive or engrossing.
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Feb 6, 2017 03:36
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Goon Species Pack v1.0 http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=858191485 Have species of your own you want to see added to it? Let me know! Note: Goon species are set to spawn "ALWAYS". So disable this mod if you don't want to see them around constantly I guess? Open to changing that. Also: Feel free to submit Fallen Empire flavoured empires as well. I'll also try to include any custom behaviours you might want or anything crazy like that. Edit: As always, if you want to submit, include the words SPECIES SUBMISSION in your post, since that's what I search the thread for. GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 17:17 on Feb 6, 2017 |
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Feb 6, 2017 04:00
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E: Sorry, drunk and posted in wrong thread.
Back Hack fucked around with this message at 04:48 on Feb 6, 2017 |
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Feb 6, 2017 04:30
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GlyphGryph posted:Goon Species Pack v1.0 How many of the goon species are space geckos?
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Feb 6, 2017 04:50
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Can't remember if I contributed...
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Feb 6, 2017 05:57
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I was making mine but then stuff happened and I didn't. May still finish them up eventually.
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Feb 6, 2017 06:02
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Want to play stellaris but don't not to play 1.5. Please send help.
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Feb 6, 2017 06:43
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Roobanguy posted:don't. i ended up killing three 150k in fleet strength with about 90k (ish, i was replenishing strength quickly) of mine, things got easier as i remembered how they fight and i got a sniff of what tactics they were using. this was basically correct on all facings. sum up: their defenses are insanely strong on both facings (~90% armor and absolute shitloads of shields) so strike craft are your best pound for pound attack. it also helps that strike craft have essentially infinite range in combat. the AI seems to understand this and will prioritize strike craft-bearing ships. this basically means that if you're slotting bombers into your cruisers, your cruisers are going to get pounded. this is actually ideal because cruisers can mount point defense and are big enough to carry some very heavy shielding. FEs deploy lots of strike craft, a lot of missiles, and tons of energy weapons. so a hangar core cruiser with point defense (preferably flak guns, but i made do with level 2 PD) and heavy shields will be a lot more trouble than they are worth. you can then exploit the relative lack of focus on your lighter ships by loading up your corvettes with plasma blasts or the best lasers you can find, and your destroyers with broadside modules and kinetics (though do not forget PD on them too). these smaller ships are then able to actually swarm and inflict some serious bloody noses since they're not the ones being focused down for once. battleships should field either arc emitters or kinetic artillery and also mount a hangar core to deploy more strike craft and to be able to defend themselves with PD. hit and run tactics are perfectly viable and work well as long as you are able to support the spending. AEs do replace their fleets but they have difficulty keeping up with player fleet capacity if you're blowing 750-1000 minerals a month on fleet. if you can blast a titan you've basically won because those motherfuckers account for 13k fleet strength all by themselves. i demanded liberation of their capitol region and a strategic second region that caused their empire to split in half. without their capitol they seem to be having a VERY hard time replenishing fleet because our truce just ended and they are still evaluating as Pathetic to me in terms of fleet strength (i've only built up to about 115k in the interim years). at this point it is basically time to stomp them again in a war, liberate another portion of their empire, and get ready to vassalize the first one that i had split off. oh i also got psi jump drive from the debris, which owned like crazy. also, unrelated, but i hereby rescind most of my complaints about terraforming. it's very expensive in terms of energy, yes, but if you are at all thoughtful about how you're marshaling your resources you will generally have excess energy, particularly on large planets the energy expenditure is fairly well balanced by the fact that when you terraform, you instantly clear all tile blockers. i think the only thing i would change is that terraforming with the strategic resources should reduce both energy AND TIME expenditure, because it still takes a god drat dog's age. e: oh and map update  the protectorate protects i am not sure wtf is up with the Star League here actually. i pushed them back purely through border pressure, i still have not fought them at all. power of terraforming i guess; there were a lot of marginal worlds near our border, so after i terraformed and colonized them it pushed them back and got me a couple nice mining systems. the other micropowers over there i'm not sure about, they have been pretty peaceful but it looks like their empire is cracking up. it's possible the mathin hierarchy stomped them a time or two and i just missed it i guess, but i've generally been pretty alert as far as wars go since the first FE woke up (he's the dark blue on the galactic south). Coolguye fucked around with this message at 07:57 on Feb 6, 2017 |
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Feb 6, 2017 07:27
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Milky Moor posted:lol didn't wiz even say they were loathe to show these things because of this exact response from theorycrafters Never fails.
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Feb 6, 2017 07:56
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Wiz posted:Never fails. Hey don't mean to bug you but i'm gonna break these two things out of my bigass post and use actual shift keys and poo poo because I feel it's pretty important. Is it possible to have a setting for sectors that basically tells them "for the love of gently caress do not let the Empire run in the red on energy"? As the game gets big the player is increasingly reliant on sectors for economy, and dependent on migration patterns and what my governor has had for breakfast that day my taxes can fluctuate by a couple hundred energy a month. This is a really rude surprise when i'm running at +40 and mount a major naval campaign, only for it to go to -250 the day after my fleet enters the wormhole. I've seen this happen a couple of times now. Aggressive terraforming has meant that i'm kind of in a spot where my planets never quite fill up, and for whatever reason my pops are migrating a lot in my game. There's been a handful of times when 2-3 pops move around on about a dozen worlds in a single month and it leaves a lot of power hubs and power plants unstaffed. It wouldn't be a gigantic problem if i could move pops around and basically tell them to short science in favor of staffing the power plants but with 50+ colonies under my sector's control it's just not feasible for me to revoke, micromanage, and repatriate on that level. Also, I've found...not sure it's quite a bug, but it's definitely a quirk that might gently caress my achievement run. I used gene engineering to add Strong and Rapid Breeders to my species, and went 'select all' on the pops to modify screen. This ended up being a mammoth project (I think it was like 600-700 months) but I did it anyway because I was really sick of the lack of population problem, and to give me the edge I wanted in ground combat. The humans that were born while that gene tailoring process continued were not included in the project, which I didn't notice until much later. Now I have ~760 pops that are enhanced, but another 230 that are not. And the unenhanced humans are still considered my founding species. I'm currently undertaking a followup project to enhance the rest of my race. If I enhance all the humans, will they be subsumed properly and become my founding race? Coolguye fucked around with this message at 08:17 on Feb 6, 2017 |
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Feb 6, 2017 08:06
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Coolguye posted:This is a really rude surprise when i'm running at +40 and mount a major naval campaign, only for it to go to -250 the day after my fleet enters the wormhole. Are you thinking about the maintenance reduction your fleet gets when they're sitting in a starport? The savings when at port can be quite significant late-game. And you can order your sectors to focus on energy if you're running deficits.
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Feb 6, 2017 08:26
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Strabo4 posted:Are you thinking about the maintenance reduction your fleet gets when they're sitting in a starport? The savings when at port can be quite significant late-game. And you can order your sectors to focus on energy if you're running deficits. Nope this is not it, I always soft launch my fleets beforehand to make sure I can support them out of port. This is sitting at the wormholes for a couple of months, a-ok, and then whoops collections went from 930 to 560 overnight because a ton of people moved, sorry about that. And this is with me telling them to focus on energy (since that is what I rely on my planets for primarily and my humans are Thrifty). Coolguye fucked around with this message at 08:31 on Feb 6, 2017 |
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Feb 6, 2017 08:29
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I've had some games where something has happened to drop me an extra 200 or whatever energy before. Never quite nailed it down, but I think it might have been a happiness issue, though it could have been something with migrating pops as well. This is outside of the increased cost when fleets are out of port. Terraforming feels like it is balanced around having at least 1 of the special resources for it. With both resources the cost feels completely fine, though the 10 year timer seems excessive. Honestly I'd rather drop the special resources and get a supplementary technology that reduces cost and time instead. Gene modding is a perfect "great in theory and staple of the genre" that is implemented in a terrible and wasteful fashion. The best use of it is really to take your primary specials and adapt them to other climates to get around having to take a bunch of time terraforming a planet. You can either do every climate or one per biome, but either way the time to gene mod 1 pop is insignificant. On the other hand, the time to gene mod an entire race you have is stupid, combined with the fact that you also suspend your research for the duration as well makes it a waste. If you want to be fiddly and micro-managing you could gene mod each pop on a planet to be optimal for the tile they're working. The cost is still stupid high but being able to basically pause your project and have partial benefits would give that a place in a situation where you can't really grow your empire right at the moment in other ways (though you need to turn migration off). Compare that to other games (moo2 is actually a great example here), where you tend to be able to get impactful or interesting additions to your race as part of the research itself. In stellaris you get the ability to pay the research cost at least once more to get at most a marginal benefit.
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Feb 6, 2017 08:58
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GlyphGryph posted:Happiness based events. Faction stuff that is influenced in and based on happiness. Getting treated differently by other Empires, having aliens breaking down your doors to get in (not for the mechanical benefit, either, but just because it would make me happy to know that my people are so happy everyone else wants a piece of it). I don't want happiness to be powerful, I want it to be engaging. Completely different. GlyphGryph posted:Based on the Wiz comment that players dont like problems with counters that arent shooty laser based, combined with him not liking victories that arent military based, combined with him not liking the idea of victory being applied in a non zero sum way... I do have a lot of hope for this game, but satisfying pacifist themed gameplay is definitely not among them. I sort of get the feeling that Wiz basically doesnt believe players who like non military solutions and goals exist, or least in numbers significant enough to try and cater to. (I base this on him actually questoning whether people who like economic and tech victories in other games are real)
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Feb 6, 2017 09:46
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Harmony is nice and all but I think I still want to play super space capitalists with Expansion + Prosperity to get really big and then be filthy rich. All that stuff looks right up my alley. Maybe dip into Harmony if ethics divergence is a pain but I was actually looking forward to interacting with factions and trying to balance that stuff.
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Feb 6, 2017 10:34
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For those who want to get along with people outside their empire, rather than within it, Diplomacy is an option: https://twitter.com/dmoregard/status/828539904300875776
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Feb 6, 2017 10:52
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drat I was hoping someone would get my Zardoz reference.
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Feb 6, 2017 10:58
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