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GenericOverusedName posted:Something to tell me where the gently caress do go when Spider 1 has a scary unique right at the stairs and all the spiders kick your rear end, and Swamp has another scary unique that will kick your rear end, and Elf is Elf and you will get 1shot by a cave elf with a bow because you're too loving stupid to know to train fighting on your mage dude because why would I want to do that, I'm a magic man. I'm not hitting things, why would i train the hitting things skill.
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Feb 7, 2017 22:34
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| # ? May 14, 2024 13:54 |
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I dont have any consumables because I blow them all to be not dying from the early centaurs and ogres. Then the 2headed ogres. And then the hydras. And the centaur captains. And those uniques.
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Feb 7, 2017 22:36
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Get banished, scum abyss 1 until you become mega-swole or die. Either is a solution.
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Feb 7, 2017 22:37
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It really depends on what options your character has and what unique your up against. There are lots of uniques that can show up in those branches. Some are much easier to deal with than others. Even the super scary ones sometimes have crippling weaknesses you might overlook. Jorgrun for example cannot see invisible and the damage from shatter is greatly reduced when you fly. So you can quaff invis and flight to trivialize him.
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Feb 7, 2017 22:42
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It was uhh Asteron (the minotaur dude) in Spider (and I was gettin hosed up by like, tarantellas to begin with) and goddamn Nikola in Swamp. I died a while ago with this dude.
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Feb 7, 2017 22:45
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I did the 'die in Elf' thing because that's what my one random spectator suggested.
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Feb 7, 2017 22:45
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Both of those guys can be killed with curare needles. Nikola isn't that scary if you have rElec or a scroll of silence.
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Feb 7, 2017 22:47
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Earlier in the thread I recounted how I went down a set of stairs in swamp, got electrocuted by nikola, tried to go back up and died. I wouldn't have though to use a scroll of silence on him, actually. I sort of assumed his "magic" worked the same way demon smiting did for some weird reason.
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Feb 7, 2017 22:52
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Here's my statement vis-a-vis whether the game is harder or not It probably isn't, but it feels like it is. That's way more important imo than it actually being harder than it used to be. I genuinely think that over the past few release versions, the game feels more frustrating to play even through all of the quality of life enhancements, even though by all means it probably has gotten easier as time has gone on.
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Feb 7, 2017 23:30
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Mighty Dicktron posted:Here's my statement vis-a-vis whether the game is harder or not I think its gotten much easier to 3 rune and play certain power combos (MiFi, etc). I think its gotten harder to 15 rune or play sub-optimal things like Octopodes or Felids. Take this RMiss thing for instance. Felids and Octopodes are just completely locked out of it now and it was one of their better low level survival tools since they can't equip scarves. I play almost exclusively Octopodes and Kobolds and my Octopode games have been ending earlier and earlier as they've stripped stuff like that out. Meanwhile the Kobold games have been easier I feel so 
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Feb 7, 2017 23:38
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I have an XL 14 OgTm with Dragon Form at <10% cast failure. I feel invincible and will die to hubris. VVVV 
World Famous W fucked around with this message at 00:05 on Feb 8, 2017 |
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Feb 7, 2017 23:44
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World Famous W posted:I have an XL 14 OgTm with Dragon Form at <10% cast failure. I feel invisible and will die to hubris. An Ogre with Dragonform castable should feel very visible.
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Feb 8, 2017 00:01
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Mighty Dicktron posted:Here's my statement vis-a-vis whether the game is harder or not Difficulty in Crawl is hard to really pin down. Personally, I think the game is harder but in a different way than it used to be. The development focus has shifted away from difficulty in the form of tricks that require prior knowledge to play around. Stuff like item destruction made the game harder in general, but experienced players knew ways to work around it. The old traps & door skill was something a new player would ignore and get punished for, while a veteran would sink the exact amount of points into it and never be bothered by traps. Its hard to really explain this but basically I think there's less difficulty in the form of tricks and traps, but more in terms of actual dangers posed to the player. Corrosion is probably the best example of this. Old corrosion was annoying and did permanent damage, but veteran players took the proper precautions to avoid being maligned by it. For them, corrosion was barely ever relevant. New corrosion doesn't do permanent damage but its WAY more deadly. Even with the relevant resistance, it can be a huge threat. So the change too corrosion made the game more difficult overall. There's also the fact that a lot of monsters are more dangerous nowadays than they were in old versions. To continue with the corrosion example, the addition of entropy weavers made acid way more relevant. Those bastards are ridiculously deadly. And even since their addition the mechanics surrounding them have changed to make it even harder to negate what they do. So when I look at something like that, it definitely feels like Crawl is harder.
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Feb 8, 2017 00:22
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I read an Angband LP in the archive and was feeling nostalgic so fired it up again. Here's some thoughts that are relevant to the current obfuscation discussion I think: First of all, unrelated: Good god has o/tab/^f/^g spoiled me. I think we have to make a rule that all roguelikes need to have that, and old ones need to have it retrofitted. The problem with Angband I started to feel, was that there were too many numbers. Every single weapon and artifact had an average DPS (broken down by resistance and monster type), and my eventually beefy monster memory had HP, AC, %Hit, spells cast/frequency, etc. And it felt... kind of dry. I felt like I wasn't playing an exciting game of an adventurer against impossible odds anymore, I was playing a series of spreadsheet probability formulas. I ran 3 guys and won with all 3 (mostly because of leet strats learned from the LP), and I ended up using mostly the same gear on all 3, because that's what the numbers said. Part of it is a diversity problem, like how Nethack used to be "always be grayswandir" because it was always the most optimal choice, and flavour suffered as a result. I'm actually OK with how Crawl does obfuscation currently. I have "enough" numbers I feel, without taking away all the mystique/uncertainty out of it.
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Feb 8, 2017 00:31
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Skull.gif: Seriously, how can you say that removing wands of HW and Tele hasn't made the game harder for crappy players like me? It may have been a crutch, but it was a well used crutch, and the 10% increase to the scrolls/potions has certainly not made up for it. So basically, it's increased the times where I had a character who would have survived after burning through 5 HW charges to one that died. When you're wining 0.5% of your casters, that means you need to play 200 more games to get another win. I haven't won a caster since that change, BTW, because I'm a bad player. Now, that may be OK, and I'm not saying it isn't. All I'm saying is that crawl has become, TO ME, frustratingly difficult when not playing a MiBe. I don't know how representative I am of the player base, but I have a feeling I'm more representative than the people who regularly 15 rune and hold speed records.
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Feb 8, 2017 00:34
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Rename Barachians into Hopgoblins
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Feb 8, 2017 01:11
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IronicDongz posted:That is the reason, though. They're supposed to be a bigger challenge to win than other species. If you want to be undead and not terrible ghouls exist(and vampires, though they are annoying). If the purpose of mummies is to be uniquely terrible then why even bother with the space? HE were removed in part to reduce clutter on the races page, Mu seems like an easy cut too because they offer nothing unique. Part of the frustration I have is that all three undead are tedious at best to play. Vampires are the least tedious but blood mangement is always going to be annoying.
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Feb 8, 2017 01:14
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Whoever recommended troll necro as a hybrid class can go fart on their own head, these apts are terrible wtf
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Feb 8, 2017 01:15
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Ghouls are pretty fun. I like their chunk healing mechanic a lot. But I also liked High Elves, so Ghouls will be the next to go.
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Feb 8, 2017 01:17
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I think Mummy sort of fills a space as the designated undead caster, it's not quite something that exists only to be garbage. It's fun getting to endgame with a MuSu and having a neverending wall of meat that you can infinitely channel mana to replenish. Just...getting there is really horrible.
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Feb 8, 2017 01:19
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Darth Windu posted:Whoever recommended troll necro as a hybrid class can go fart on their own head, these apts are terrible wtf I started one after that post and it's going great. I forget that I'm a necromancer most of the time though.
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Feb 8, 2017 01:22
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Araganzar posted:Two hill giants sitting side by side and one has 58hp and the other has 116hp. In many games you'd know there was SOMETHING different between them. In most others you'd know after you hit one for the first time. Or a few times. I think there's a difference between obfuscation and hidden information. Is it obfuscation that you don't immediately know the location of all monsters on a level when you enter it, or that you don't know which spellbook an orc wizard is using? (FWIW, the odds of a monster with 88 avg hp having either 58 or 116 hp is about... uh, anydice just says 0%? 95% of our 88-hp monsters will be between 80 and 96 max hp, and the odds drop off precipitously from there. 99.9% are between 70 and 107 mhp, etc.) Darth Windu posted:Rename Barachians into Hopgoblins Man, your posting has been a lot better lately.
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Feb 8, 2017 01:23
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Chakan posted:If the purpose of mummies is to be uniquely terrible then why even bother with the space? HE were removed in part to reduce clutter on the races page, Mu seems like an easy cut too because they offer nothing unique. the mindset that is required to 'get' mummy is the mentality that leads to this. study it well, and all will become clear...
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Feb 8, 2017 01:23
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And Hubris. Spiders and their entropy weavers have slain the Oragon.
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Feb 8, 2017 01:29
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SKULL.GIF posted:1. This is because the actual accuracy is dependent on what kind of monster you're hitting. See #4 I'd like to take time out to thank SKULL.GIF for actually contributing level headed feedback from a dev in the face of SA's known hostility. Thank you.
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Feb 8, 2017 01:46
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Internet Kraken posted:Difficulty in Crawl is hard to really pin down. Personally, I think the game is harder but in a different way than it used to be. The development focus has shifted away from difficulty in the form of tricks that require prior knowledge to play around. Stuff like item destruction made the game harder in general, but experienced players knew ways to work around it. The old traps & door skill was something a new player would ignore and get punished for, while a veteran would sink the exact amount of points into it and never be bothered by traps. Its hard to really explain this but basically I think there's less difficulty in the form of tricks and traps, but more in terms of actual dangers posed to the player. This is basically what I was going to write out. What I'll add on is that I feel the developers add things that are interesting to them and agreeable to other devs, while removing things that are troublesome (as in, tedious or brain dead decisions). A lot of these changes end up making Crawl easier or harder (depending on what is being affected), and it mostly balances out near the end. However, sometimes the troublesome thing that is removed is something that many weaker players (as in, people who have zero to a couple wins) needed to be able to figure out and beat the game. Sometimes the interesting thing is a monster that is much more dangerous to those who haven't learned how to deal with that type of monster yet, and they die earlier than they normally do. I think Crawl is still doing fine balance wise in the end, but the changes for this version may make the game harder for weaker combos/players (even if, in my opinion, they were good changes to be made). It may be worth looking into some of the things Arganzar mentioned, however. I personally think that light vs heavy armor, especially in relation to spellcasting penalties, should be looked into being reworked to either be more meaningful/easier to understand. One approach that I may try to code up is to make Encumbrance similar to shield breakpoints, and just have it be a "Match or exceed this in Strength to eliminate all penalties (dodge, accuracy, spellcasting) for this piece of armor", while cranking the Encumbrance ratings of the heavier armors higher to compensate.
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Feb 8, 2017 01:50
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I feel like armor is one of those things that would be very difficult to significantly change (like the hunger system) without unintentionally loving up a bunch of other stuff. As of right now strength and the armour skill contribute to encumbrance penalty in...some arcane way, and making it entirely dependent on one would either hugely devalue strength or make the armour skill useless. One of these may be an acceptable loss, but still. I wouldn't mind the loss of the armour skill, but it would make melee dudes have even fewer things to put skill exp in. 
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Feb 8, 2017 01:59
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Having the armour skill just give you more armour (similar to Dodging) isn't inherently a bad idea. I don't know enough to say if making encumbrance purely a function of str and evp is, though.
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Feb 8, 2017 02:12
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Ladies and gentlemen, start your engines!
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Feb 8, 2017 02:47
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I never remembered to use delayed fireball even when I memorized it, and this new spell involves more stuff blowing up, so I can't even muster up a joke complaint. Imagine dropping an Ignition on V5. 
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Feb 8, 2017 02:56
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drat... Ignition would combo really well with Singularity.
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Feb 8, 2017 03:03
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Glad this poo poo is over with. http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/InternetKraken/morgue-InternetKraken-20170208-020936.txt I mean it wasn't that bad once it got going but I do not have the patience for the tedium of spriggan early game. So much running around because you got hit for half your HP in a single blow. If I ever play one again I'm gonna stick to a stronger start so things suck less. Oh I have some balance feedback that I'm sure will be ignored but I wanna bring it up anyways; yara's violent unraveling. This spell seems way to situational. I mean, its useful in theory. Its not something you would use often but it can be very useful in the right circumstance. I was really glad I had it memorized when Antaeus chugged a potion of might. I think it has a critical flaw that was kind of overlooked though. It deals damage in an AOE, but what's one of the most common monster buffs? Haste. Which means because they are hasted and moving faster, a lot of the enemies you'd want to use this on are already in your face. SO if you were to target them with the spell you'd be nuking yourself as well. I'd like to see it changed from a square AOE to a cone that extends behind the target relative to where the caster was. Then it would still hit an AOE but not be worthless against a monster that is in melee range. Haifisch posted:I never remembered to use delayed fireball even when I memorized it, and this new spell involves more stuff blowing up, so I can't even muster up a joke complaint. I did use delayed fireball because it was a free action. Since fireball can't be dodged, it made for a good finisher. Useful versus pests like tormentors and neqocxefmajksdms. However it definitely wasn't a super interesting spell and ignition sounds way more fun so I can't care about it being gone. I think it could return as a reflavored charms/conjuration spell though. That said I can't see ignition getting into the game the way it is as it seems disgustingly strong. The fact that it doesn't affect you or your allies is crazy. Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 03:25 on Feb 8, 2017 |
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Feb 8, 2017 03:19
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I assume it doesn't affect you or allies so that it's actually viable against packs(where you'll inevitably have something close enough to explode on you by the time you see most of the pack & have them bunched up).
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Feb 8, 2017 03:25
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Now you can worship Vehumet and Qazlal at the same time!
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Feb 8, 2017 03:49
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Ignition seems good. It's not chain lightning but it should be nice for the weakness the fire school has, in that after you get fireball there wasn't really any upgrade until firestorm. e: I also like that it is pure fire instead of fire/conj like every other fire spell. Darth Windu posted:Whoever recommended troll necro as a hybrid class can go fart on their own head, these apts are terrible wtf Especially with Kiku's miscast protection you can run death channel in every fight from lair onwards and still have enough unarmed skill to fight black mambas etc in melee. Fitzy Fitz posted:I started one after that post and it's going great. I forget that I'm a necromancer most of the time though. Darox fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Feb 8, 2017 |
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Feb 8, 2017 03:54
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All I remember about the time I played TrNe was that I got drained so much I ascended at level 25.
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Feb 8, 2017 04:04
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Chakan posted:If the purpose of mummies is to be uniquely terrible then why even bother with the space? HE were removed in part to reduce clutter on the races page, Mu seems like an easy cut too because they offer nothing unique. Chakan posted:Part of the frustration I have is that all three undead are tedious at best to play. Vampires are the least tedious but blood mangement is always going to be annoying. Unimpressed posted:Skull.gif: Seriously, how can you say that removing wands of HW and Tele hasn't made the game harder for crappy players like me? It may have been a crutch, but it was a well used crutch, and the 10% increase to the scrolls/potions has certainly not made up for it.
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Feb 8, 2017 04:29
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PleasingFungus posted:Is it obfuscation that you don't immediately know the location of all monsters on a level when you enter it, or that you don't know which spellbook an orc wizard is using? Yes, that's obfuscation. There's not a value judgement to the term. Clearly some things SHOULD always be obfuscated so there remain opportunities for surprise and novelty. I was asked to provide examples of combat stats being obfuscated. What about that example do you take exception to? There are quite a few games where monster HP are shown explicitly, many others in which examination would show a difference between a 60hp and 120hp giant. quote:(FWIW, the odds of a monster with 88 avg hp having either 58 or 116 hp is about... uh, anydice just says 0%? 95% of our 88-hp monsters will be between 80 and 96 max hp, and the odds drop off precipitously from there. 99.9% are between 70 and 107 mhp, etc.) And I as a player would know that....how?  (FWIW, I personally think the level of info on monster AC,EV,HP,DMG is Pretty Good right now and my only complaint is there is very little information on accuracy on either side)
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Feb 8, 2017 04:50
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IronicDongz posted:But they do. No other species has the challenge of playing without potions. Not only benefits are unique, you can have unique challenges too. (See also: Fo stasis) If the game ends early enough that you won't have a HW wand then odds are you wouldn't have that extra 10% of a HW potion anyway.
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Feb 8, 2017 04:51
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I don't agree with that at all, you didn't usually find HW wands in 3 rune games. By the time you survive long enough to find multiple HW potions you would rarely find a HW wand.
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Feb 8, 2017 05:02
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