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Oligopsony posted:Well, that's a priori at plausible, but I was thinking more of the specific evidence that was marhsalled for it - "Yarvin has voiced skepticism of the Russian role in the hacks, and so has Trump!" - is extraordinarily weak beer. More or less everybody who's vaguely hostile to Washington technocrats, rightly or wrongly, voiced skepticism of that. Not really? Pretty much universal agreement that it was the Russians, aside from the DE and Trump himself (because Putin owns him).
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Feb 8, 2017 03:09
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BobHoward posted:Expanding on that, iirc some of the good work you're referring to is pro bono and he's quite willing to do this for very lefty people who are getting in legal trouble for saying lefty things. I may not agree with his apparent belief that free speech is the highest and most important principle, but he walks that walk. Unlike the "MAH FREEZE PEACH" crowd, who are into free speech rhetoric mainly as a way to claim oppression when criticized, he understands that critique is just more speech. Yeah I didn't mean to be quite so glib about it, it's just one of those things where I've heard a few things about Popehat also being lousy but never specifically in what way, and I was vaguely wondering if it was anything other than the expected ways (ie, going to the wall for the sorts of speech that I, a person in favour of hate speech laws, believe should be illegal [and are where I live] but is not in America).
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Feb 8, 2017 05:08
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I distinctively remember Ken and Pax Dickinson getting into a fight which consisted of Ken repeatedly burning the hell out of Pax on his lack of understanding of free speech, and Pax resorting to calling Ken old and angry to win over some hypothetical third party who might take his side on this. https://twitter.com/Popehat/status/769696942175555584
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Feb 8, 2017 05:33
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The Vosgian Beast posted:In which some deeply dodgy theology is engaged in, and MMS's devoted comments section accepts it on his say-so, as they always do Update: A battle of intellectual titans occurring in the comments section Anonymous posted:I have to disagree with you on this one. I think what you wrote was the most heartless, insensitive, and coldhearted thing to write as an author because not everything you're saying is true. If you haven't noticed, you don't need money to commit suicide nor do you need it to kill yourself. Who's to say that those with wealth and luxury will reap the benefits in heaven? How do you know this? Don't you realize that the Zionist Jews call the shots? The ruling elites control the economy and so they know what they are doing. Money is debt and debt is money. I wasn't destined for hell, what you speak of is absurd pessimistic heartlessness. Money is another form of control and so you can't harshly judge someone based on how much they have in their bank account. I like some things that you wrote in the past years but this one is a little stretch too far don't you think? Mister "Extreme Leaps of Logic" Mean-Spirited posted:The very essence of existence is precisely this “heartless, insensitive, and coldhearted thing” that you so dislike. Don’t you think that if life is so “heartless,” then it stands to reason that the afterlife will be just as heartless? If this world is “insensitive,” then the next world will be just as insensitive. If reality is “coldhearted,” then what awaits us in the realm beyond will be just as coldhearted. It's like a competition to see who can make the worst argument
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Feb 9, 2017 05:21
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BobHoward posted:Some confusion is understandable because for a long time Ken and Clark co-blogged at Popehat There's also Patrick tweeting on popehat's account.
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Feb 9, 2017 16:58
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The Vosgian Beast posted:Update: A battle of intellectual titans occurring in the comments section I like how the first guy could basically just be a communist if it weren't for the enemy being ZIONIST JOOS instead of capitalism
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Feb 9, 2017 19:07
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ate all the Oreos posted:I like how the first guy could basically just be a communist if it weren't for the enemy being ZIONIST JOOS instead of capitalism I like how sudden that took a turn to crazytown. I was like "Oh here's a well-meaning person who's on the wrong blog oh woops, looks like he's concerned about The Jewish Problem"
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Feb 9, 2017 20:08
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Of course Bannon is an Evola fan
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Feb 10, 2017 16:40
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"Evola" is a bit on-the-nose, don't you think? -- ed
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Feb 10, 2017 19:53
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The Atlantic now also is covering NRx. I hate everything.
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Feb 11, 2017 01:41
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*looks at sig* ... WELP!...
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Feb 11, 2017 02:16
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Bannon is a pseud who supports anything that supports his beliefs with big words. Moldbug and Evola mean as much to him as Rosenberg or Schmitt meant to the Nazis. They're court philosophers, mildly useful until they aren't, and easy to throw away in the end.
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Feb 11, 2017 04:31
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Race Realists posted:*looks at sig* I've always wondered why it isn't noted who buys avatars for other people on this forum.
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Feb 11, 2017 08:57
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Samovar posted:I've always wondered why it isn't noted who buys avatars for other people on this forum. lowtax won't release that info, rightfully so I think. in any case, I think most people realize that the people who spend  on redtext avatars are usually a lot crazier than the recipients.
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Feb 11, 2017 09:38
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WilliamAnderson posted:The Atlantic now also is covering NRx. the bronzeageperv twitter handle moldbug trolls the journalist with is a poster on the my posting career forums, a place that's racist enough to hate moldbug for being part-jewish, as if moldbug doesn't already hate himself enough for that.
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Feb 11, 2017 14:16
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The Vosgian Beast posted:Bannon is a pseud who supports anything that supports his beliefs with big words. Moldbug and Evola mean as much to him as Rosenberg or Schmitt meant to the Nazis. They're court philosophers, mildly useful until they aren't, and easy to throw away in the end. One interesting thing is that (beyond the inevitable psychosexual similarities behind wanting a big dictatorship of the nerds in the first place) Evola and Moldbug share very little in common besides having a critique of right-wing movements' tendency to drift towards populism. Which is, of course, precisely the tiger that Bannon's trying to ride.
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Feb 11, 2017 16:48
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Oligopsony posted:One interesting thing is that (beyond the inevitable psychosexual similarities behind wanting a big dictatorship of the nerds in the first place) Evola and Moldbug share very little in common besides having a critique of right-wing movements' tendency to drift towards populism. Which is, of course, precisely the tiger that Bannon's trying to ride. that's making me wonder what Bannon will take from Moldbug (notwithstanding the confounding factor of the "intermediary" being an unknown quantity, could be Thiel), will it be any more than justifications for distrusting the mainstream media, cultural institutions, academia etc. (i.e. the cathedral) and justifications for why white supremacy is awesome? i can't see the whole edifice of Moldbug's philosophy having much sway here, but bits and pieces of the framework might prove influential. hell, Trump would love Moldbug's whole conspiracy theory of urban crime being a brahmin (Moldbug's moronic "caste system" might also be useful to the regime's rhetoric) ploy to wipe out hardworking white folk from the cities and replace them with a black and hispanic underclass that would for some reason be subservient to the cathedral's anti-white goals. though I'm likely overestimating the sophistication of the Trump regime and it's capacity for deploying neoreactionary rhetoric.
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Feb 11, 2017 18:57
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Fututor Magnus posted:lowtax won't release that info, rightfully so I think. in any case, I think most people realize that the people who spend IIRC it's not directly tracked at all and the only way to figure it out is to check server logs and compare IPs. Or at least that's how it was explained the last time this came up.
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Feb 11, 2017 20:06
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Oligopsony posted:One interesting thing is that (beyond the inevitable psychosexual similarities behind wanting a big dictatorship of the nerds in the first place) Evola and Moldbug share very little in common besides having a critique of right-wing movements' tendency to drift towards populism. Which is, of course, precisely the tiger that Bannon's trying to ride. Exactly. Schmitt and Rosenberg weren't much alike(Schmitt at least knew what he was walking about, for one) but they both served the purpose of advancing the cause the Nazis wanted to advance. They were for the glasses-wearing Scott Alexander types to read and decide that fascism had an intellectual underpinning. If Schmitt had decided that preserving the state to stave off the very worst WAS the very worst or if Rosenberg had believed the Out Of Africa theory, the nazis would have just found some new sockpuppets.
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Feb 11, 2017 20:08
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Fututor Magnus posted:hell, Trump would love Moldbug's whole conspiracy theory of urban crime being a brahmin (Moldbug's moronic "caste system" might also be useful to the regime's rhetoric) ploy to wipe out hardworking white folk from the cities and replace them with a black and hispanic underclass that would for some reason be subservient to the cathedral's anti-white goals. This already fits in well with the existing right wing media rhetoric about Democrats trying to keep black people "on the plantation" of government benefits.
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Feb 12, 2017 20:55
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McGlockenshire posted:This already fits in well with the existing right wing media rhetoric about Democrats trying to keep black people "on the plantation" of government benefits. I haven't heard that specifically but  I don't think they quite grasp how plantations worked
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Feb 12, 2017 22:39
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ate all the Oreos posted:I haven't heard that specifically but This is what Davis Aurini actually believes
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Feb 12, 2017 23:43
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It's consistent with Rand: people who help the unfortunate do it either because they want to control them or to impress the people who want to control them. I don't know what she had to say about slavery specifically. Maybe nothing? It must have been a boring subject to her.
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Feb 12, 2017 23:58
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ate all the Oreos posted:I haven't heard that specifically but
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Feb 13, 2017 00:11
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Doc Hawkins posted:It's consistent with Rand: people who help the unfortunate do it either because they want to control them or to impress the people who want to control them. Rand believed that Capitalism was responsible for setting the slaves free and that the North fought the Civil War in order to advance their free market ideology which was being held back by the South's commitment to a controlled economy vis a vis owning a free method of production that unfairly altered the market to favor goods that could be produced by slaves. This puts her at odds with many libertarians and objectivists who believe that slavery itself is the most true proof of working libertarian ideology/objectivism in that you can bootstraps yourself so far above other humans that you literally own them and that you are so successful in the free market that you can force people from participating in it by owning their freedom. These people also usually believe in the lie of the "happy slave" because in their twisted vision of how things work if slaves wanted to be free they would have fought harder to be free and killed more dudes to be free. These guys shockingly are usually middle class white men who have been handed piles of free poo poo in their life but paradoxically think they are completely self made men with 0 advantages over any other person other than being really good at stuff. It also doesn't help that your general Lost Cause Revisionism runs ultra deep on the far right and has a pretty strong following among the mostly white crowd of online DE/Objectivity/Libertarian communities. It doesn't help that they've managed to poison actual political discourse with the whole "states rights" lie (to paraphrase Ta-Nehisi Coates "it was a war about states rights, but mostly about one right in particular") so you have actual real none racist KKKers who support the League of the South and organizations like that. I'd actually go as far to say that pro-Confederacy and general Lost Cause stuff is probably going to be an upcoming wave among a lot of these DE guys in the near future.
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Feb 14, 2017 11:07
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El Estrago Bonito posted:Rand believed that Capitalism was responsible for setting the slaves free and that the North fought the Civil War in order to advance their free market ideology which was being held back by the South's commitment to a controlled economy vis a vis owning a free method of production that unfairly altered the market to favor goods that could be produced by slaves. Whenever they do, have this post handy to be able to source your arguments about why they're terrible!
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Feb 14, 2017 11:47
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Is the a good summary articulating what the "lost Cause" is? The article linked is drat good at setting out how slavery was at the heart of the conflict but, in part because it is not really its focus, it kinda glosses over what the "Lost Cause" is. I'm not from the US hence not familiar with the concept.
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Feb 14, 2017 21:15
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A thing is called a "lost cause" when the speaker believes it's good and worth fighting for, but also that there's no way to attain it in practice. Effective gun control in the US, for example. "The Lost Cause," in this case, is the belief that the rebellion (aka "the confederacy") was in some way morally defensible. Arguments to that effect often involve claims that somehow the federal government was an unjust aggressor, that the rebellion wasn't motivated in defense of slavery, that there was some jurisprudence that justifies treason. People who believe this frequently connect their modern-day grievance ("I do not occupy the societal position I deserve") with this manufactured historical one ("'The North' ruined us"). e: Imagine how native peoples feel. Now imagine some white people invented a history to give themselves a shadow of that sense of loss, so they could feel self-righteous. Doc Hawkins has a new favorite as of 21:35 on Feb 14, 2017 |
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Feb 14, 2017 21:30
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Moldbug, or an imitator, shows up in Scott Aaronson's blog http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=3167 Look for comments under "Bugmold"
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Feb 15, 2017 00:18
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Fututor Magnus posted:Moldbug, or an imitator, shows up in Scott Aaronson's blog "Look at this book on politics and international relations from the 18th century, it's definitely still 100% applicable to today's world." Also his bit about why don't Iranians stay in Iran and make it better just reminds me of this glorious Stewart Lee clip so I guess thanks for that, dillweed.
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Feb 15, 2017 00:58
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If Moldbug did anything other than read really old primary sources, he would risk being contaminated with dangerous cathedralist prog memes
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Feb 15, 2017 01:35
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If history does not unfold according to my First Principles, it is history that has erred.
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Feb 15, 2017 13:25
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Doc Hawkins posted:e: Imagine how native peoples feel. Now imagine some white people invented a history to give themselves a shadow of that sense of loss, so they could feel self-righteous. Ok, that is pretty tragic, or would be if it didn't let to so much awful politics.
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Feb 15, 2017 21:09
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The new lambdaconf code of conduct https://github.com/fantasylandinst/fcop/blob/master/COC.md
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Feb 15, 2017 21:18
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We're not imposing politics, just civility.  I won't rend my shirt at the awfulness of nerds, since when I think about Lambdaconf I mostly remember just how many people thought they were shitbrained, and that was long before The Recent Political Developments. Good to know not even those have granted de Goes self-awareness.
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Feb 15, 2017 21:53
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Matthew Garrett (huge SJW and, oh yeah, actual Linux kernel programmer with an excellent track record) and friends were not entirely impressed with the proposal version: https://twitter.com/mjg59/status/831799470769729536 https://twitter.com/adrienneleigh/status/831945925530562561 https://twitter.com/adrienneleigh/status/831946558379659266 One of the people responsible comes to argue the toss. Click and read the thread.
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Feb 15, 2017 22:27
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Munin posted:Is the a good summary articulating what the "lost Cause" is? The article linked is drat good at setting out how slavery was at the heart of the conflict but, in part because it is not really its focus, it kinda glosses over what the "Lost Cause" is. Basically Lost Cause Revisionism came about because at it's core the Civil War for the South was about a very small amount of rich people forcing extremely poor and under educated people to die in order to protect the rich people's ability to stay rich. So you get this entire segment of southern people who were fed propaganda that convinced them fighting to defend southern slavery was somehow also about defending themselves from oppression and from the government trying to go against God who totes said black people are garbage not real humans. This went hand in hand with the classic tactic that would become a staple of both industrialists and neo-cons: the idea that poor people aren't poor and shouldn't fight for the rights and interests of poor people because they're actually just rich people who haven't had their break yet (how the American conservative right has sold poor destitute people on the idea of removing their own access to healthcare for a modern example). In this case they were basically saying "Hey, we know you're a poor rear end dirt farmer who will never realistically be a rich guy who owns other humans, but when you totally have your big break and become rich don't you want to own people, wouldn't that be great? And do you know what? The big mean Union is trying to TAKE THAT RIGHT AWAY FROM YOU AND THAT IS VERY BAD!". So you start getting layers of lies to explain how so many people's heritage is tied up in a thing that is now universally hated a despised. So they decide to ignore slavery entirely, to mask it and hide it behind waffling and bullshit ("my family never owned slaves" or "it was just the culture of the time") and instead focus on the sort of nobility that humans instinctively put in rebels and outlaws. The South doesn't become a state in which a extremely small slice of extremely wealthy people use their power and money to keep a huge population enslaved or living in destitute poverty. Instead it becomes a symbol of the last breed of the old noble ways, the last agrarian society of farmers and hard working men fighting against a corrupt state powered by modern industry and supported by academia. Confederate Generals become men who were put in a bad situation and instead used their brilliance and cunning to protect the lives of their men and resist federal oppression as best they could. This idea was started mainly by two people: Jefferson Davis, the former President of the Confederacy and Robert E Lee, a former Confederate general who in their memoirs worked tirelessly to distance the conflict and themselves from Slavery, but realistically were doing this to present themselves in the most positive light. This still persists today, Davis was an rear end in a top hat, a racist and general not a great guy, but in the modern sense he's often depicted as a sort of dedicated statesman tied up in fatalist destiny. That he was a true representative of his people and when his people decided to leave the Union he went with them because he believed that as their leader he should execute their will. This is of course prime rear end horse poo poo because he was economically and socially tied to the rich ruling class of the South and had massive financial reasons to want Slavery to still be a thing, but the first story reads better and so that's what has persisted.
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Feb 15, 2017 22:57
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divabot posted:Matthew Garrett (huge SJW and, oh yeah, actual Linux kernel programmer with an excellent track record) and friends were not entirely impressed with the proposal version: Pictured: Lambdaconf organizers meeting 
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Feb 16, 2017 01:15
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El Estrago Bonito posted:Basically Lost Cause Revisionism came about because at it's core the Civil War for the South was about a very small amount of rich people forcing extremely poor and under educated people to die in order to protect the rich people's ability to stay rich. So you get this entire segment of southern people who were fed propaganda that convinced them fighting to defend southern slavery was somehow also about defending themselves from oppression and from the government trying to go against God who totes said black people are garbage not real humans. This went hand in hand with the classic tactic that would become a staple of both industrialists and neo-cons: the idea that poor people aren't poor and shouldn't fight for the rights and interests of poor people because they're actually just rich people who haven't had their break yet (how the American conservative right has sold poor destitute people on the idea of removing their own access to healthcare for a modern example). In this case they were basically saying "Hey, we know you're a poor rear end dirt farmer who will never realistically be a rich guy who owns other humans, but when you totally have your big break and become rich don't you want to own people, wouldn't that be great? And do you know what? The big mean Union is trying to TAKE THAT RIGHT AWAY FROM YOU AND THAT IS VERY BAD!". So you start getting layers of lies to explain how so many people's heritage is tied up in a thing that is now universally hated a despised. So they decide to ignore slavery entirely, to mask it and hide it behind waffling and bullshit ("my family never owned slaves" or "it was just the culture of the time") and instead focus on the sort of nobility that humans instinctively put in rebels and outlaws. The South doesn't become a state in which a extremely small slice of extremely wealthy people use their power and money to keep a huge population enslaved or living in destitute poverty. Instead it becomes a symbol of the last breed of the old noble ways, the last agrarian society of farmers and hard working men fighting against a corrupt state powered by modern industry and supported by academia. Confederate Generals become men who were put in a bad situation and instead used their brilliance and cunning to protect the lives of their men and resist federal oppression as best they could. This idea was started mainly by two people: Jefferson Davis, the former President of the Confederacy and Robert E Lee, a former Confederate general who in their memoirs worked tirelessly to distance the conflict and themselves from Slavery, but realistically were doing this to present themselves in the most positive light. This still persists today, Davis was an rear end in a top hat, a racist and general not a great guy, but in the modern sense he's often depicted as a sort of dedicated statesman tied up in fatalist destiny. That he was a true representative of his people and when his people decided to leave the Union he went with them because he believed that as their leader he should execute their will. This is of course prime rear end horse poo poo because he was economically and socially tied to the rich ruling class of the South and had massive financial reasons to want Slavery to still be a thing, but the first story reads better and so that's what has persisted. Seems like paragraphs are the real Lost Cause here
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Feb 16, 2017 15:37
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Fututor Magnus posted:lowtax won't release that info, rightfully so I think. in any case, I think most people realize that the people who spend Lowtax won't release that info because there isn't any info stores. You don't even need an SA account to buy other people avatars.
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Feb 16, 2017 15:56
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