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Oh wow, just saw this gem in the Pasco Dems newsletter:quote:Feb. 16, 4:00 p.m. - Heritage Pines Club, Magnolia Room, Heritage Pines Clubhouse, 11524 Scenic Hills Blvd, Hudson, Program: Presentation and discussion led by our 'Indivisible' Team
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Feb 7, 2017 21:12
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joepinetree posted:Marketplace, which is technically APM but is broadcast on NPR, went completely out of its way to bash minimum wage increases at any chance they got. We are talking about self contradictory stuff, like a story about a city that increased the minimum wage, where they interviewed a business owner on the next town over about how she couldn't hire anyone because everyone went to work at the city with the higher wage, and a business owner from the city with the higher wage, about how she had to fire a bunch of people because she couldn't afford workers anymore. Marketplace also fired one of their reporters when he posted a, frankly, fairly bland blog on Medium where he was candid about how uncomfortable the Trump presidency made him as a trans person and raised the question of how journalists can both uphold their ethics and be fair in light of a president that's unmoored from the truth and pushing policies they find unconscionable. He was looking for a nuanced, public debate on journalism in the age of Trump, but Marketplace freaked the gently caress out because they're terrified of being seen as biased. Business press tends to swing further to the right than most media (probably because its readership does), but I think this is just gutlessness on the part of the editors rather than any real enthusiasm for Trump. Still, it's enough for me to stop listening. Not that I'm missing much, Marketplace always struck me as an org trying way too hard to be cool to the detriment of its coverage. Baby Babbeh fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Feb 7, 2017 |
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Feb 7, 2017 21:25
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Man I was gonna come ask about whether there's a list or compilation somewhere of the best way to outfit for a protest / demonstration but that crimethinc link in the OP is pretty well perfect, thanks OP! I feel so fuckin... prepper? Thinking ahead about what to wear to whatever march or gathering. It's honestly disconcerting to empathize even one tiny bit with the people who hoard guns and food in case Obama brought about the thousand years of liberal darkness.
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Feb 7, 2017 23:06
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joepinetree posted:Marketplace, which is technically APM but is broadcast on NPR, went completely out of its way to bash minimum wage increases at any chance they got. This is what made me stop listening to NPR. Marketplace.
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Feb 7, 2017 23:13
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joepinetree posted:Marketplace, which is technically APM but is broadcast on NPR, went completely out of its way to bash minimum wage increases at any chance they got. We are talking about self contradictory stuff, like a story about a city that increased the minimum wage, where they interviewed a business owner on the next town over about how she couldn't hire anyone because everyone went to work at the city with the higher wage, and a business owner from the city with the higher wage, about how she had to fire a bunch of people because she couldn't afford workers anymore.
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Feb 8, 2017 00:30
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cheese posted:NPR is the poster child of "Well we should hear both sides of the story - the truth is somewhere in the middle!" which is probably why so many of its listeners are suburban white technocrats. My wife literally brought the NPR Politics Podcast episode about the travel ban to me the other day and said "this coverage is horseshit, or at least, it sounds like it is... am I insane?"
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Feb 8, 2017 00:59
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Again, it's useful to make a distinction when talking about public radio, because there's actually a lot of different production houses that make stuff for it and they're all slightly different. APM makes Marketplace, and they're probably the most neoliberal in outlook. NPR does so many programs it's hard to classify, I'd put them on the "Effete liberal but maybe both sides have a point" area of the spectrum but they also produce or distribute a lot of more genuinely progressive programming. PRX and PRI mostly do what I'd frame as infotainment programming rather than hard news and consequently they are all over the center of the map politically. Either way, among broadcast outlets public radio is usually the place to find the least biased, most informed news programs so it's worth not writing it off entirely.
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Feb 8, 2017 01:49
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One of our local congressmen (we're gerrymandered to hell, of course) is playing hide-and-seek with liberals. I had no idea this had gotten so substantial. It's driving our local conservatives bonkers. https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1247883075248651&id=161913750512261
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Feb 8, 2017 03:15
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Beating gerrymandering is going to be one of our biggest challenges going forward, I think. As is Senators and Reps doing their best to dodge talking to their constituents. Edit: Also, I think I need to write out the counter-argument to a goddamn stupid line I'm hearing drat near every day. "Well, Trump isn't doing anything Obama hadn't done" We should probably get a script of common "points" and counterpoints written down for both media interactions as well as day-to-day discussions. Making sure I don't accidentally condescend to someone when they say things like "Hillary would have done all the same stuff" is really, really tough. Veyrall fucked around with this message at 03:54 on Feb 8, 2017 |
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Feb 8, 2017 03:51
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dwarf74 posted:One of our local congressmen (we're gerrymandered to hell, of course) is playing hide-and-seek with liberals. I had no idea this had gotten so substantial. Seems like a common tactic right now. There's a big hubbub for Cory Gardner, Republican Senator of CO doing the same thing - http://petitions.moveon.org/sign/senator-gardner-hold
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Feb 8, 2017 03:55
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Veyrall posted:Beating gerrymandering is going to be one of our biggest challenges going forward, I think. As is Senators and Reps doing their best to dodge talking to their constituents. As for the response list: Yeah, on the one hand that'd be nice. On the other hand our local conservative deep thinkers haven't gotten much more creative than simply repeating Trump tweets, writing down whatever soundbites Fox News is feeding them, and calling people "snowflakes" over and over again. Internet Explorer posted:Seems like a common tactic right now. There's a big hubbub for Cory Gardner, Republican Senator of CO doing the same thing - http://petitions.moveon.org/sign/senator-gardner-hold http://wglt.org/post/congressman-davis-eludes-protestors#stream/0
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Feb 8, 2017 04:07
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joepinetree posted:Marketplace, which is technically APM but is broadcast on NPR, went completely out of its way to bash minimum wage increases at any chance they got. We are talking about self contradictory stuff, like a story about a city that increased the minimum wage, where they interviewed a business owner on the next town over about how she couldn't hire anyone because everyone went to work at the city with the higher wage, and a business owner from the city with the higher wage, about how she had to fire a bunch of people because she couldn't afford workers anymore. I distinctly remember when the news broke about Wells Fargo's widespread, systemic consumer fraud problems they had a guy on who talked only of how he thought it was so unfortunate that this one bad apple would give all the other poor innocent banks a bad name, since they're definitely not doing anything like this honest please don't add any regulations or investigate anything take my word for it. Baby Babbeh posted:Again, it's useful to make a distinction when talking about public radio, because there's actually a lot of different production houses that make stuff for it and they're all slightly different. APM makes Marketplace, and they're probably the most neoliberal in outlook. NPR does so many programs it's hard to classify, I'd put them on the "Effete liberal but maybe both sides have a point" area of the spectrum but they also produce or distribute a lot of more genuinely progressive programming. PRX and PRI mostly do what I'd frame as infotainment programming rather than hard news and consequently they are all over the center of the map politically. One of my two (!) local NPR stations also carries Democracy Now! which is the farthest left thing I've ever heard on the radio, so it balances out 
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Feb 8, 2017 04:08
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Internet Explorer posted:Seems like a common tactic right now. There's a big hubbub for Cory Gardner, Republican Senator of CO doing the same thing - http://petitions.moveon.org/sign/senator-gardner-hold Makes sense. Gardner's been voting and commenting on protests like we're a safe state for his re-election when we're anything but. Thanks for linking that petition, by the way, I'll share it around. Not necessarily expecting it to accomplish anything but he needs a bit of the fear of god put back in him.
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Feb 8, 2017 04:21
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SomeMathGuy posted:Makes sense. Gardner's been voting and commenting on protests like we're a safe state for his re-election when we're anything but.
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Feb 8, 2017 06:35
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SomeMathGuy posted:Makes sense. Gardner's been voting and commenting on protests like we're a safe state for his re-election when we're anything but. From what I understand they are planning to print it all out and have people deliver it to all of his offices during business hours. Can't hide forever you fucker. 
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Feb 8, 2017 06:56
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https://twitter.com/yashar/status/829195944969302016
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Feb 8, 2017 07:02
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Strongly disagree with the above.
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Feb 8, 2017 15:30
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ChickenOfTomorrow posted:Strongly disagree with the above. Which part, because I liked the part about assigning his actions to the republican party rather than him personally so they can't weasel around the fact that they're the reason he exists and continues to exist.
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Feb 8, 2017 15:33
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That list tries to sneak a "don't be angry" in between two pieces of good advice (be positive and don't give in to fear) which instantly turned me against it. We should all be furious. I'm also laughing at the idea of turning Trump into HE WHO MUST NOT BE NAMED but it's part of her point that this is a Republican administration and we should be hammering that home every chance we get, with which I do actually agree.
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Feb 8, 2017 17:38
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Is she aware that her father would not have accomplished squat if there wasn't a militant black power movement wrecking poo poo so he could appear the reasonable choice?
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Feb 8, 2017 18:14
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I suspect the leader of the King Center is probably aware of the details of the civil rights movement, however MLK still argued strongly for nonviolence and I doubt the organization is going to start advocating militancy.
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Feb 8, 2017 18:19
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Sure, I was being facetious. It pisses me off that they can't just argue non-violence instead of arguing against violence, though.
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Feb 8, 2017 18:21
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It is rather difficult to advocate for one thing without ever saying that its opposite might be counterproductive.
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Feb 8, 2017 18:22
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OwlFancier posted:It is rather difficult to advocate for one thing without ever saying that its opposite might be counterproductive. Without EVER, sure, but not criticising allied struggle is actually an extremely sound strategy that has served the radical left well for many years, now. Playing into politicians need to categorize protesters and social movements as either 'good' or 'bad'( implying legitimacy for those who do not threaten state and corporate interests only), doesn't really get us anywhere.
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Feb 8, 2017 18:29
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I mean I think she's arguing that violent resistance is ineffective rather more significantly than that it's wrong, which Dr King also did. And while I disagree with it, she would be remiss in leaving it out of an argument if she believes it to be correct. There was a very good document written by Martin Luther King where he goes into detail about the realities of violent vs non violent protest and I think a lot of its strength lies in that he is very realistic about it, I think that a lot of what it identifies can also be used as an argument for violence in some cases, but it's a good thing to read on the subject and I think quite applicable to the subject at hand. http://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/document/nonviolence-the-only-road-to-freedom/ Particularly he identifies that in all likelihood, black Americans, were they to resist violently, would simply be exterminated by the establishment. And also that because the desired change is not revolutionary, but instead the right of integration, it doesn't make sense to achieve that by attacking the thing you want to integrate with. The reasons for his nonviolence are not all ideological, there are pragmatic concerns as well. Some of this may not apply to other groups in other times, but I don't think he was necessarily incorrect in his assessment. It would hardly be appropriate for the leader of the King Center to not echo those concerns. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 18:48 on Feb 8, 2017 |
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Feb 8, 2017 18:37
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Heh, there's something to be said for reading this:Martin Luther King, in 1966 posted:Arguments that the American Negro is a part of a world which is two-thirds colored and that there will come a day when the oppressed people of color will rise together to throw off the yoke of white oppression are at least fifty years away from being relevant. in 2017
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Feb 8, 2017 18:47
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OwlFancier posted:I mean I think she's arguing that violent resistance is ineffective rather more significantly than that it's wrong, which Dr King also did. Okay, I agree. I guess I forgot for a moment that she was probably adressing black americans first and foremost, though I think there's ample evidence the state attempts to exterminate anyone resisting violently.
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Feb 8, 2017 18:50
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Except for that group of white supremacists that took over a government building a while ago. They got away scot-free and most of them enjoy additional social gains from being associated. whitepeople.txt
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Feb 8, 2017 20:19
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Other factors were at play. They were right-wing radicals, and as such not consciously attempting to challenge the actual ruling class. When it became clear to cops that they were a bunch of easily scared loudmouths making a retarded SovCit point, they could divert and trap then. Faced with people who complain about actual economic reality and won't compromise, you can bet your rear end they will use violence. The "Cop > everyone else" mindset is a lot stronger than the "white > black" one.
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Feb 8, 2017 20:26
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In America, I'm not so sure.
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Feb 8, 2017 20:28
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OwlFancier posted:In America, I'm not so sure. I live way across the ocean, so I won't pretend to be an expert. I do happen to know a lot of U.S. radical ex-pats who say that the fangs come out a lot faster if you participate in a social movement protest than if you do retarded 2nd amendment stuff, which seems to me like your cause is as important as your skin colour. Of course, these things intersect as well, I would guess.
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Feb 8, 2017 20:31
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Veyrall posted:Except for that group of white supremacists that took over a government building a while ago. They got away scot-free and most of them enjoy additional social gains from being associated.
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Feb 8, 2017 20:33
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1000%. It would cost him almost no political capital and it would play extremely well with his base.
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Feb 8, 2017 20:52
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Tias posted:Other factors were at play. They were right-wing radicals, and as such not consciously attempting to challenge the actual ruling class.
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Feb 9, 2017 10:18
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Kekekela posted:http://time.com/4661074/republican-town-hall-criticism-obamacare-repeal/ Oh cool my father graduated with Gus from Stetson and has never thought highly of him. Lives deep in Spring Hill now so votewise it's a moot point but lol at that jackass washing out.
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Feb 9, 2017 10:23
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Veyrall posted:We're not actually disagreeing. There's a certain segment of the population that is completely convinced that, as long as they have their guns, they can easily throw off any government they don't like. It doesn't matter that the government has access to things like artillery, drones, nukes, tanks, training, etc. As long as Joe down the street has his shiny revolver and Jed down the way has a tricked out AK with no ammo, your average Republican is certain that they can just shoo off any pesky tax collectors and minorities. Right on, I was explaining more why the police gloves tend to come off against protesting working class protesters instead of SovCit yahoos.
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Feb 9, 2017 10:27
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Tias posted:Sure, I was being facetious. It pisses me off that they can't just argue non-violence instead of arguing against violence, though. Sometimes it's necessary to point out how the opposite is wrong in order to show that your side is correct. quote:The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral,
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Feb 9, 2017 11:21
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AARO posted:Sometimes it's necessary to point out how the opposite is wrong in order to show that your side is correct. Yes, well, the opposite isn't wrong. Dr. King had no chance of reforming US society if there wasn't ultra-violent black insurgent leaders willing to get their hands dirty. I feel as though we're repeating this argument in every other activist thread, though, so let's maybe not continue( or make a thread for it).
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Feb 9, 2017 11:24
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Arguments get repeated over and over again in life and in general. If it's no longer interesting to you you can choose to not respond. I think the conversation is important enough to have again. I think it comes down to Kantian ethics. Can you use an evil means for a good end or are we always bound to use only just means to reach an end?
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Feb 9, 2017 11:32
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Tias posted:Yes, well, the opposite isn't wrong. Dr. King had no chance of reforming US society if there wasn't ultra-violent black insurgent leaders willing to get their hands dirty. People keep saying that, but I've never seen anyone prove it.
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