|
I would like a party that was more centrist and less libertarian than the Greens, but just as environmentally driven.
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 21:41
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 01:45 |
|
|
Thing is the position of 'I don't really like the EU but it's better to stay in it' was David Camerons position.....
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 21:41
|
|
|
spectralent posted:Quite a statement. Who's going to be the party of not-brexit, then? It turns out you just surrender half the country on marginal votes if you're the opposition, so I'm wondering who gives a gently caress about me I can offer my support to. I think probably quite a lot more of Labour gives a poo poo about you than any of the other parties tbh.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 21:42
|
|
|
baka kaba posted:Unable according to procedure, or more "they wouldn't!!!"? Given the gravity of this whole thing and the lasting impact they might feel this is a unique situation. And the Tories don't have a majority so there's potential for a meaningful resistance, to force amendments etc. Why are you expecting the Lords to do the oppositions job?
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 21:42
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:I think probably quite a lot more of Labour gives a poo poo about you than any of the other parties tbh.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 21:42
|
|
|
We're all doooooomed
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 21:42
|
|
|
jBrereton posted:Lib Dems. SNP. S'it. Plaid and the Greens too, for what they're worth.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 21:43
|
|
|
Pissflaps posted:Why are you expecting the Lords to do the oppositions job? Because they have the numbers to do so
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 21:45
|
|
|
jBrereton posted:Shame about their representatives, eh? I'm still not really sure how many of the representatives are careerists but I'd wager even most of the ones that are are probably better than a lib dem or a tory.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 21:46
|
|
|
jBrereton posted:Lib Dems. SNP. S'it. Eh Sinn Fein didn't bother registering with the electoral commission to campaign during the referendum and threw up most of their posters after the vote, their historic eurosceptic attitude south of border meant their opposition to Brexit was a bit limp at best. The SDLP have been banging the drum as the anti-Brexit party the loudest regionally
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 21:45
|
|
|
It is also the Lords job to view and amend bills. This is where 'ping-pong' occurs. And baka they can do so, it's just articles i've seen suggest they might be hesitant to be seen as 'obstructing' it. Who knows though as these are strange times? 
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 21:47
|
|
|
Rakosi posted:I would like a party that was more centrist and less libertarian than the Greens, but just as environmentally driven.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 21:52
|
|
|
I like a party that isn't full of idiots.spectralent posted:Have I read correctly that we didn't even have time to debate EU worker protections? What a farce. Considering the EU nationals part got hosed. It's pretty obvious that worker protection would be shot down as well.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 21:56
|
|
|
Guavanaut posted:I'd like a party that's as left-libertarian as the Greens or more, but doesn't drive itself into a conniption over the existence of chemicals or meat or power generation. It is for this reason I've never been able to take the greens seriously. Axiomatically I feel there's probably a lot of alignment; I'm very left wing and have a vested interest in making a sustainable society. Then we hit the laughable attitudes to science and I realise I'm apparently talking to a Greyhawk druid circle instead of people living in reality.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 21:57
|
|
|
Well, this is all very depressing. I suppose it's too much to hope that the Lords will decide to go out in a blaze of glory in order to stop this madness?
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 22:18
|
|
|
The fact that the Tories are going to win the vote anyway isn't an argument for voting with the Tories. Oppositions routinely vote against the government, knowing full well they are going to lose the vote.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 22:31
|
|
|
Paxman posted:The fact that the Tories are going to win the vote anyway isn't an argument for voting with the Tories. Oppositions routinely vote against the government, knowing full well they are going to lose the vote. They don't routinely vote against a measure the public directly had a hand in saying they wanted.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 22:37
|
|
|
I suspect the Lords will feel they can't go against the Commons (never mind the referendum) on the issue of giving the PM the power to trigger article 50, which is what the Bill does. But that wouldn't stop them amending the legislation in some way, eg on EU nationals rights. The trouble is that any amendments they make can be overturned by the Commons so it's symbolic at best. The Lords have caused problems for the Government in the past when the Government also faces trouble in the Commons and doesn't much fancy asking the Commons to support it in overturning the Lords. There's no sign of that this time though. There's also the vague threat of abolishing the Lords of they cause problems, butatyempts to reform the Lords always become a huge mess for some reason and I doubt Theresa May wants to go there, or will need to.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 22:38
|
|
|
The Lords can't go against manifesto commitments. One of which was to stay in the single market. Err.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 22:40
|
|
|
Lord of the Llamas posted:The Lords can't go against manifesto commitments. One of which was to stay in the single market. Err. Don't, not can't.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 22:41
|
|
|
Glad to see the return of the true, better thread title.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 22:49
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/829442621340803083
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 22:50
|
|
|
Well, more like shuffled the check across the table slightly closer.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 22:51
|
|
|
She's right.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 22:52
|
|
|
She's really not. Also Nicola "austerity is tory evil but we loving love it" sturgeon isn't allowed to talk about doing tory stuff.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 22:52
|
|
|
this is bad for jeremy corbyn
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 22:54
|
|
|
Looke posted:this is bad for jeremy corbyn Jeremy Corbyn is bad for labour.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 22:55
|
|
|
Hell as the white paper showed (and France and Germany and Greece all in the recent past) there's tons of working conditions that the Tories could cut while still being in the EU. If you reduce class struggle to a labour dispute then the EU is a pretty ironclad minimum wage when you're earning well above it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 22:56
|
|
|
Corbyn's finished.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 22:58
|
|
|
Nonsense posted:Corbyn's finished. Nah, his election in the first place just ruined the rightwing of Labour and they've still not been able to recover other than pissing and moaning about how much they don't like him, Corbyn will have lost a lot of support over this but internally his opposition is still probably weaker than him. Owen Smith tried the 'I'm Corbyn but not Corbyn!' approach and totally hosed it up and I doubt there was any grand scheme to hold back anyone better than him for a later attempt. This may well have seriously hampered his attempts at reform internally though and that might eventually spell the end whenever he does decide to call it quits.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 23:02
|
|
|
At least now Labour won't be cast into negative light by the conservative leaning media over Brexit and will continue to just be hated by them in general, which is obviously much better.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 23:04
|
|
|
Is there any evidence, at all, that voting for Article 50 has cost Corbyn or Labour a significant amount of support?
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 23:08
|
|
|
jabby posted:Is there any evidence, at all, that voting for Article 50 has cost Corbyn or Labour a significant amount of support? People ITT seem annoyed about it. And I guess the front bench reshuffle won't be super but if they manage to stick to the protections for UK residents/citizens angle it might get them somewhere over the next few years.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 23:12
|
|
|
mehall posted:They don't routinely vote against a measure the public directly had a hand in saying they wanted. Well, only because we never do referenda in this country. Or at least they were very rare. And it's not like it was a landslide. 48% of the people who could be arsed to vote thought it was a bad idea, and plenty of referendum in the past have required more than 50% of the electorate to vote for it to count. But sadly David Cameron was a loving arrogant imbecile who didn't even bother putting in that protection. Labour absolutely could have opposed this on the basis that Brexit will take the economy. Extreme0 posted:I like a party that isn't full of idiots. Well that's hardly going to happen in this country, is it? namesake posted:Nah, his election in the first place just ruined the rightwing of Labour and they've still not been able to recover other than pissing and moaning about how much they don't like him, Corbyn will have lost a lot of support over this but internally his opposition is still probably weaker than him. Owen Smith tried the 'I'm Corbyn but not Corbyn!' approach and totally hosed it up and I doubt there was any grand scheme to hold back anyone better than him for a later attempt. The problem remains the lack of obvious candidates to replace him. There remains no faith in the right wing of the Labour Party among the leadership, they still haven't gotten even close to addressing the question marks left over from their last 20 years plus in charge. Maybe it's Lewis. I dunno. Leaving the Shadow Cabinet over this will probably be popular with the Corbyn support in the party. I hope. Woops, my mistake. Incidentally, I'm quite surprised at how small the rebellion was among the Shadow Cabinet. I really expected more resignations over this shite vote. jabby posted:Is there any evidence, at all, that voting for Article 50 has cost Corbyn or Labour a significant amount of support? Well, we'll see when those by-elections happen in Stoke & Copeland in a couple of weeks, until then gently caress all proof either way. But for the record, I don't care how this vote impacts Labour's support, I care because Tory Brexit is going to be really bad, for my family, for me, for the working class in general.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 23:18
|
|
|
Labour's strategy seems to be "let Brexit happen, then show the Tories up once the bodies start hitting the ground"
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 23:21
|
|
|
It's not 'Tory Brexit' anymore.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 23:22
|
|
|
Yes it is.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 23:23
|
|
|
ShaneMacGowansTeeth posted:Labour's strategy seems to be "let Brexit happen, then show the Tories up once the bodies start hitting the ground" This strategy seems like it'd be more effective if you actively show that you are opposed to Tory Brexit rather than just say you are while voting with it...
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 23:23
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:Yes it is. It's been voted for by labour. Twice. It's no longer a 'Tory Brexit'.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 23:25
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 01:45 |
|
|
forkboy84 posted:This strategy seems like it'd be more effective if you actively show that you are opposed to Tory Brexit rather than just say you are while voting with it... Attempting to table amendments is the opposition to tory brexit, simply not opposition to brexit itself. The refusal of the tories to accept any of them means that the tories refuse to make this an interpartisan endeavour.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2017 23:25
|
|