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As pointed out in Private Eye's 'Medicine Balls' column for the January issue, Labour can't even win an opinion poll that the NHS would be safer in their hands right now, and depressingly it's no surprise. If you can't win on the NHS right now what can you win? 
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Feb 10, 2017 01:01
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Fucks sake. They can accuse every other home nation of having relations with livestock, accuse their own outlying regions of incest to the point of polydactyly, and take the piss out of the whole rest of Europe/the world and that's just bants, but when British television has a light hearted jab at England they go on the defensive. Change all English BBC regional channels to a picture of a white Transit van in front of a house with St. George's flags with a constant repeating laugh track in the background 24/7 until they have a breakdown.
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Feb 10, 2017 01:05
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jabby posted:gently caress's sake Owen Smith is pathetic on Question Time. The honourable member from pfizer ensures excellent care for his elderly relatives
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Feb 10, 2017 01:06
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What I don't get about the "opposition should never oppose what people voted for" thing is that it sort of defeats the whole purpose of an opposition doesn't it? Isn't the role of the opposition to oppose the policies that people voted for when they voted for the government in power? Is the opposition bound to vote for the government's manifesto commitments? Isn't the whole point of the opposition to represent the minority? Do you guys legitimately not understand this or is it "we will do or say anything no matter how transparently absurd to rationalize the actions of Chairman Corbyn."
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Feb 10, 2017 01:08
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quote:"The "as long as we beat the English" mentality needs to stop." I will not tolerate such defeatism!
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Feb 10, 2017 01:08
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Hating the English is part of the Welsh National Character. Like how hating themselves is part of the English National Character.
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Feb 10, 2017 01:13
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hakimashou posted:Isn't the role of the opposition to oppose the policies that people voted for when they voted for the government in power? 'The Official Opposition' is just a title given to the largest party in Westminster that isn't in government. Labour can take whatever position they want on any issue they want, just like any other political party.
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Feb 10, 2017 01:16
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hakimashou posted:
you are far, far too uneducated to pull this poo poo
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Feb 10, 2017 01:21
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Wasn't able to find a direct embed, but you can watch the appalling racist filth being put out by BBC Wales and judge for yourself thanks to The Mirror: http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/bbc-forced-pull-six-nations-9785915
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Feb 10, 2017 01:24
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Fans posted:Hating the English is part of the Welsh National Character. Like how hating themselves is part of the English National Character. Truly it brings us together in these troubled times
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Feb 10, 2017 01:26
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Bacon Terrorist posted:As pointed out in Private Eye's 'Medicine Balls' column for the January issue, Labour can't even win an opinion poll that the NHS would be safer in their hands right now, and depressingly it's no surprise. If you can't win on the NHS right now what can you win? I don't think Labour are going to win any opinion polls at this point in time. Which of the following parties is The Labour Party? Conservative..43% Don't Know....31% Labour........26% Fair play to the Mirror though: 
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Feb 10, 2017 01:27
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I can't get enough of are Dan
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Guavanaut posted:Fucks sake. They can accuse every other home nation of having relations with livestock, accuse their own outlying regions of incest to the point of polydactyly, and take the piss out of the whole rest of Europe/the world and that's just bants, but when British television has a light hearted jab at England they go on the defensive. “I remember he once told this amazing joke while he was recording a live show for London Weekend Television. Forgive the terrible accent, but he went, ‘I tell Irish jokes, I get into a lot of trouble for telling Irish jokes. But sod it, you’ve got to be able to laugh at yourself, don’t you agree?’ Big round of applause. ‘So I’ll tell an Irish joke…two Paddies leave Dublin and go to work in London…and the IQ of Dublin halves overnight’. Big laugh. ‘They get to London and the IQ doubles’. Deathly silence. ‘Now, I thought we agreed that you have to be able to laugh at yourselves’. And it was brilliant; he caught their prejudice squarely on the chin." I'm pretty sure "we can mock anyone but we can't take it in return" is pretty common amongst the right actually. I definitely saw it a lot during the build up to indyref.
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Feb 10, 2017 01:27
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Gorn Myson posted:Mark Thomas has a nice story about Dave Allen that reminds me about this. I mean basically the past year has been incredibly thin skinned white straight male conservatives calling everyone else special snowflakes and then throwing a temper tantrum when anyone dares say anything directed at them. And that's just the new American government.
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Feb 10, 2017 01:33
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white people crying racism can fairly be punched, much like nazis if I said shot I'd get another day off
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Feb 10, 2017 01:37
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Operation Midnight Climax was specifically forcing LSD on the CLIENTS of prostitutes, who generally were people who couldn't reveal how they'd been dosed and so wouldn't report it to the police. if I remember correctly one dude freaked out and jumped through a window to his death
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Feb 10, 2017 02:00
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JFairfax posted:if I remember correctly one dude freaked out and jumped through a window to his death https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Olson
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Feb 10, 2017 02:02
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Bacon Terrorist posted:As pointed out in Private Eye's 'Medicine Balls' column for the January issue, Labour can't even win an opinion poll that the NHS would be safer in their hands right now, and depressingly it's no surprise. If you can't win on the NHS right now what can you win? I mean, doesn't that just show how stupid and credulous people are? It's just objectively wrong. Is it even possible for someone to be worse for the NHS than the current tories?
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Feb 10, 2017 02:28
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Bacon Terrorist posted:As pointed out in Private Eye's 'Medicine Balls' column for the January issue, Labour can't even win an opinion poll that the NHS would be safer in their hands right now, and depressingly it's no surprise. If you can't win on the NHS right now what can you win? If you can't run a political party how can you run anything to be fair.
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Feb 10, 2017 03:14
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BizarroAzrael posted:I mean, doesn't that just show how stupid and credulous people are? It's just objectively wrong. Is it even possible for someone to be worse for the NHS than the current tories? Corbyn has done such a bad job leading the labour party that people think yeah, it is it. Maybe "leading" is too kind a word. He's done such a bad job telling the labour party what to do with 3-line whips. hakimashou fucked around with this message at 03:18 on Feb 10, 2017 |
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Feb 10, 2017 03:15
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So a few less than credible sources (Telegraph, Daily Express etc.) are reporting that Clive Lewis, potentially assisted by Owen Jones, has been sounding out MPs for a potential leadership challenge. It's probably bollocks, but it's as interesting a topic for discussion as any. How would people here feel about it? Personally I have no animosity towards Clive Lewis, but if he made a challenge I'd be backing Corbyn for several reasons. Firstly, it's way too early for another leadership election. Every time internal divisions get brought to the fore it sets back any potential for recovery with the public. Also, re-running a leadership election because you didn't get the result you wanted is just like trying to re-run a referendum. It's disrespectful of the people who voted the first time around. Corbyn was elected by the membership twice and he should have the right to contest an election on his policy platform. Secondly, if he does run it seems like it will be on a platform of making Labour an anti-Brexit party. Even though I voted remain, I think such an approach is a complete political dead-end. Notwithstanding the lack of will within the PLP to defy the referendum result, by the time the next election rolls around Brexit will have already happened and a policy-book full of great things about the EU will be of historical interest only. At that point Labour will be expected to offer an optimistic alternative vision of post-Brexit Britain, which will be a hell of a lot easier if they start to develop it now rather than spending the next few years prophesying doom. Lastly, and perhaps most importantly, who is going to be Clive Lewis' support if he does run? He's not going to get any from McDonnell, Abbott, or the rest of traditionally 'left Labour' because they'll be backing Corbyn. He could pick up people from the so-called soft left, but even Owen Smith describes himself as 'soft left' and he's centrist as hell. My worry is that he'll end up being backed by the Labour right who see him as just the right man to get rid of Corbyn and then be forced out himself a few months or years down the line, handing control of the party back to them. Can we see Lewis standing up to a vote of no confidence and mass resignations of his front bench like Corbyn did, if they decided to pull the same poo poo?
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Feb 10, 2017 03:22
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This thread is going through the highly emotional stage of it's cycle like a week early this month huh. I voted remain, before the referendum and I'd barely heard of the EU in my 30ish years alive, now 7 months after this referendum and I still don't really understand what it is  and I've watched all of Crash Course economics and work with markets everyday. A year ago noone knew what it was, and a year later, something that noone knew anything about is causing the apocalypse huh. I tried looking up 'hosed' in an economic textbook but couldn't find a definition. I think there's a large majority of people, who don't talk out loud about politics much, who are getting a bit bored again of this screaming back and forth, neither side making any sense whatsoever. Getting wound up by social media companies purposely keeping you in bubbles, exploiting your natural need to want to belong to a tribe, so they can show you more adverts for the next garbage hollywood superhero movie all the while causing you to lose perspective. Calm down ffs
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Feb 10, 2017 03:28
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I have no desire to one day belong to a nomadic tribe eking out an existence in the ruins of civilisation, feeding on the rich and listening to people speak in reverent tones about this once great institution they called the NHS, the land now rules over by a mutated regal race that had evolved from the queens corgis. Thats why I voted remain.
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Feb 10, 2017 03:57
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You're too dumb to be worried, got it
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Feb 10, 2017 04:05
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Can't definitely say who I'd vote for in a Lewis vs Corbyn race, but my gut reaction is that people like McDonnell would still work with him. In that case, and assuming Clive Lewis shitcans Seamus Milne, I imagine I'd get behind him as a left candidate who doesn't have decades of baggage and has a greater than zero chance of winning an election with a leftist platform. But we'll see. Just rumours now.
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Feb 10, 2017 04:18
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jabby posted:Lastly, and perhaps most importantly, who is going to be Clive Lewis' support if he does run? He's not going to get any from McDonnell, Abbott, or the rest of traditionally 'left Labour' because they'll be backing Corbyn. He could pick up people from the so-called soft left, but even Owen Smith describes himself as 'soft left' and he's centrist as hell. My worry is that he'll end up being backed by the Labour right who see him as just the right man to get rid of Corbyn and then be forced out himself a few months or years down the line, handing control of the party back to them. Can we see Lewis standing up to a vote of no confidence and mass resignations of his front bench like Corbyn did, if they decided to pull the same poo poo? I honestly don't think if Lewis was to win that you would see another leadership challenge before the next election. I think there's an awareness that with all the instability at the top, that the right wing will in turn be aware that another coup would be the death of the party. In turn though I also think Lewis would make more inroads with the right. That's not to say I think he would be more electable (though at the moment how could he be less), more in turn that he might bring more unity to the party. But in turn I'm pretty sure that would kill off a lot of interest that the newer labour members brought into the party. Seriously though, the party can't afford another summer of inactivity while they fight a leadership battle and the story is about internal labour politics. It would just provide the perfect cover for any poo poo the Tories want to bury regards brexit. On the other hand Corbyn needs to really actually start being effective and quickly otherwise I'm not sure how they can afford not to.
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Feb 10, 2017 04:23
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I feel confident in saying Lewis would be more electable than Corbyn, but then I think an eel would be more electable than Jezza Bae
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Feb 10, 2017 04:26
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forkboy84 posted:Can't definitely say who I'd vote for in a Lewis vs Corbyn race, but my gut reaction is that people like McDonnell would still work with him. In that case, and assuming Clive Lewis shitcans Seamus Milne, I imagine I'd get behind him as a left candidate who doesn't have decades of baggage and has a greater than zero chance of winning an election with a leftist platform. Other rumours are saying that a lot of Corbyn's team are turning on Lewis and Rebecca Long-Bailey is the anointed successor now. If I believed Corbyn and co. had the cunning to pull it off, I'd think this was an attempt to create a left wing successor that the agitators on the right of the party saw as anti-Corbyn. Maybe that's how Lewis is trying to position himself.
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Feb 10, 2017 04:29
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American here. Just popping in because I don't understand your loving country and maybe one of you can explain it to me. Over here on this side of the pond, since the Trumpocalypse, the Democrats are rallying, there's protests in the streets, people are pissed. The liberal party is standing up to Trump like a solid phalanx, shoulder to shoulder and elbows locked. But every time I check on what's going on over there in the UK, come to find Labor's pissed it all away again. Seriously, what the gently caress is going on? Last I checked, it was the Tories who brought Brexit on you all, so why the hell aren't they the ones to pay for it at the ballot box? Why the gently caress is Labor just whimpering and going along with it? Are the politicos over there really so stupid they can't grasp there's a political advantage to be had in saying no and vowing to stop Article 50? Why in the goddamn hell are there defections and resignations in Labor like every loving week? Why aren't you marching? Why aren't you demanding changes in leadership? What the hell is going on?
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Feb 10, 2017 05:56
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Bloops Crusts posted:The liberal party is standing up to Trump like a solid phalanx, shoulder to shoulder and elbows locked. Wait, are you sure you're following your own politics, because that ain't happenin'.
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Feb 10, 2017 05:58
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Kokoro Wish posted:Wait, are you sure you're following your own politics, because that ain't happenin'. Since the travel ban it is. They were all jelly-kneed before that, but that was the moment when everything crystallized. Every cabinet nominee's being fought tooth and nail, every arrow in the Democrats' quiver nocked and loosed to draw out the appointments, from boycotts to all-night debates on the floor of the Senate. They're preparing a filibuster of Trump's Supreme Court nominee even now.
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Feb 10, 2017 06:04
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Bloops Crusts posted:Seriously, what the gently caress is going on? Last I checked, it was the Tories who brought Brexit on you all, so why the hell aren't they the ones to pay for it at the ballot box? the reason why the Tories won't pay for it at the ballot box is because the vast majority of constituencies voted to leave? Unlike Donald Trump, Brexit hasn't been enough of a disaster yet to start really negatively affect people's lives enough for them to change their.mind on it, and I doubt they will even when it does because our rabidly right wing press will find some way to blame foreigners or "remoaners talking Britain down".
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Feb 10, 2017 06:06
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Bloops Crusts posted:Since the travel ban it is. They were all jelly-kneed before that, but that was the moment when everything crystallized. Every cabinet nominee's being fought tooth and nail, every arrow in the Democrats' quiver nocked and loosed to draw out the appointments, from boycotts to all-night debates on the floor of the Senate. They're preparing a filibuster of Trump's Supreme Court nominee even now. There's also alot of Democratic party internal fighting. People are primarying or planning to primary the poo poo out of establishment types they can't abide. Plus you know, Democratic party politicians are actually helping to vote through alot of Trump's worst picks, like Mike Pompeo for CIA chief. Look into the background a bit more, the Democrats are in a shambles and they're not making the changes needed to get back any power. Hell Chuck Schumer leader of their "resistance" voted for like, almost all of them. Establishment Dems were massively displaced in California and in NY alot of terrible poo poo is coming out and Dems are facing hefty internal challenges there. Alot of the American public have snapped to attention, thankfully, but for the most part they're actually not what you would call the Democratic type Liberal. Kokoro Wish fucked around with this message at 06:15 on Feb 10, 2017 |
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Feb 10, 2017 06:08
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Baron Corbyn posted:the reason why the Tories won't pay for it at the ballot box is because the vast majority of constituencies voted to leave? Unlike Donald Trump, Brexit hasn't been enough of a disaster yet to start really negatively affect people's lives enough for them to change their.mind on it, and I doubt they will even when it does because our rabidly right wing press will find some way to blame foreigners or "remoaners talking Britain down". I guess what I'm really wondering is why isn't there a grassroots movement to stop it? Speaking for myself, I'm strongly in favor of a united Europe, and I think the UK getting divorced from the EU is just about the most tragic thing in the world. I'd be out there knocking on doors, making phone calls, sitting down with my aunts and uncles in the countryside trying to talk them into changing their minds, harassing my MPs every single week and telling all my friends to do the same -- creating a movement. It just seems like Britons are so bored and disinterested in the whole thing. I know the UK has always been pretty euroskeptic, but beyond even that, there hardly seems to be any passion for the European project whatsoever. Not enough to motivate people to really take a stand against Leave, and as a result it seems like you're really allowing the Tories to stage a huge loving coup and put Labor six feet under for the next decade. Over here, if we'd all twiddled our thumbs on the travel ban, Trump probably would have gotten away with it. It was initially polling something like 55-45 in favor. But since we took to the streets and raised hell, started picking up the phones and screaming at our congressmen, some of the same polls that initially showed public support have now tilted the other way, and are now showing like 55-45 against. Where was that level of passion over Brexit? You might have swung the vote in the Commons, or hell, even given the Lords enough cover to do something.
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Feb 10, 2017 06:20
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It's because the gas hasn't been turned up to high yet, so the frog is still sitting in the pot, unaware of how loving dangerous things might be getting. But then again, the assassination of a politician didn't light a fire under anything, so gently caress knows what it's going to take. Privatization of the NHS by US insurance companies, perhaps.
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Feb 10, 2017 06:26
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Kokoro Wish posted:Hell Chuck Schumer leader of their "resistance" voted for like, almost all of them. Establishment Dems were massively displaced in California and in NY alot of terrible poo poo is coming out and Dems are facing hefty internal challenges there. Mike Pompeo was confirmed like three weeks ago, dude. Yeah, they were initially going to roll over for Trump -- then the people raised hell. Phones started ringing off the hooks, and now they aren't so compliant anymore. Chuck Schumer voted against Mitch McConnell's wife for transportation secretary, purely for the sake of spitting in his eye -- that's how much fight there is right now. This week's nominees, DeVos, Sessions, Mnuchin, they're all being opposed in lockstep or something close to it. Every single Dem voted against Devos. Every Dem but one voted against Sessions. Even the Dems in Republican states and districts are raising hell.
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Feb 10, 2017 06:29
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There have been marches and protests against Brexit. Like most marches and protests, they get ignored unless black bloc types get involved and the protesters can be cast as violent instigators. Any attempts to speak out about Brexit gets you called a whinging remoaner trying to talk Britain down. Brexit isn't an obviously lovely person like Trump is so doesn't get the same reaction he does. There's no passion for the European project because it's a lovely institution only beloved by neoliberals that we only want to stay in because the alternative is worse.
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Feb 10, 2017 06:32
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Baron Corbyn posted:There's no passion for the European project because it's a lovely institution only beloved by neoliberals that we only want to stay in because the alternative is worse. Is that Corbyn's lovely opinion too? We need to get out of the EU so we can raise tariffs and return to a protectionist economy, because that's pro-worker or something, any anyone who disagrees is a stupid neoliberal? The EU is the future of the world. It's peace between nations, no borders or boundaries, people from all over uniting in common interest to take a stand for democracy and liberalism against more shadowy corners of the world, like Russia and China. Just seems like the people in charge of Labor are a bunch of asshats. They're pulling a Hillary, going along with whatever the popular mood is at the moment, being totally lame and uninspiring, and not trying to sell people on an alternative vision. gently caress, if Labor won't do it, why aren't the LibDems? What the hell are they doing right now? Why haven't they cast themselves as the Remain party and rallied the 49% who voted Remain to their cause? I'm no expert on UK politics, but it seems to me if there were anybody smart in charge over there, they could cultivate that vision, tend it and nurture in, inspire passion in the populace, and exploit it for incredible political gain. Where the hell is the pro-EU leadership in Britain?
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Feb 10, 2017 06:45
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The lib Dems are the remain party, but they also started this whole poo poo by crowning pigfucker prime in 2010, lying to their base about student fees, and their new leader said he'd do it all again just for a whiff of May's power. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Corbyn is poo poo but every other major politician is rancid, steaming, poo poo. Without the excuse of having to fertilize their allotment.
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Feb 10, 2017 07:30
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Our politicians are really bad and being revolutionaries isn't really in their skill set. This situation is beyond them. There is no logical reason May, a career politician, is going to tank one of the strongest economies in the world. Simplest explanation? She doesn't know what she is doing. None of them do.
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Feb 10, 2017 07:31
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Regarde Aduck posted:Our politicians are really bad and being revolutionaries isn't really in their skill set. This situation is beyond them. There is no logical reason May, a career politician, is going to tank one of the strongest economies in the world. Simplest explanation? She doesn't know what she is doing. None of them do. The simplest explanation is she has a tiny majority and to appease the right wing of her party she has to support it. Also 40% + Polling shows Brexit has really been a huge shot in the arm for the Conservatives and any leader that opposed it would be taken down brutally. May really is a career politician and she will happily sell the country out of it keeps her in power.
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Feb 10, 2017 08:48
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