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I was reminded of the Children of Men opening, but I guess it isn't so unexpected either, considering genre &c. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCTgUq6hzUk
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Feb 10, 2017 17:36
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Powaqoatse posted:I was reminded of the Children of Men opening, but I guess it isn't so unexpected either, considering genre &c. Yeah that's definitely in line with the scene. Right before the explosion there's even lots of empty room in the right side of the frame for us to watch the explosion.
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Feb 10, 2017 17:40
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Spatulater bro! posted:Yeah that's definitely in line with the scene. Right before the explosion there's even lots of empty room in the right side of the frame for us to watch the explosion. It seems like you're kind of asking for a confluence of things, though; that the film generate shock out of line with associated genre convention that's wholly unsignalled by editing or camerawork setup. The softer, playful (forgive me) postmodern loving with convention in something like The Departed or Pulp Fiction doesn't count, which is understandable, as even their successful surprises can be swiftly reabsorbed into the general tone and expectations of the film. Being down on anything you can retroactively pick out the work towards setting up, however, seems a little ungenerous as they're surely there more for clarity after the fact rather than to brace a first time viewer in advance. So I'd ask if you're more concerned with the formalism of it, or just something genuinely capable of throwing the audience off kilter inside of a few seconds. In which case, if I do name films with that quality, won't they cease to have the effect you're seeking? Here are two anyway: Fat Girl and Twentynine Palms. edit: Actually, thinking about it, you most likely don't want to see those films above, as even if they conform to your conditions it's for extremely European arthouse ends, not exercising formal restraint in a genre film's opening gambits. If we're talking about just the absence of setup, like the restaurant thing you're describing, that happens in The Sopranos at least once, but not by the point where the fact of anyone in The Sopranos getting murdered is in itself surprising. But this is why I think viewer approach trumps that of the director. If your audience knows they're watching a crime film you're only ever skirting around expectations. Denying them half a second of setup to a sudden shooting might make it more impactful, but not all that much more. UNRULY_HOUSEGUEST fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Feb 10, 2017 |
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Feb 10, 2017 18:12
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The car crash in Punch-Drunk Love, maybe? It's been years since I saw it but I remember it being very sudden and out of place, right down to Barry largely ignoring it
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Feb 10, 2017 18:21
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Lobok posted:
That kinda sorta reminds me of the opening scene of Casino: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMva00IO0zA There's also Hitchcock's thingy with killing off his main character a third of the way through Psycho.
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Feb 10, 2017 18:34
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Secret Agent X23 posted:That kinda sorta reminds me of the opening scene of Casino:
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Feb 10, 2017 18:51
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I don't know of this fits but it made me think of the random street shot in Run Lola Run where something else is happening, but your eye is drawn to 'hey, hot chick extra' walking past. It cuts away and when it returns she's blatantly replaced by someone considerably older. Not sure if it was for any thematic point but was awesome to be cleverly messed with like that.
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Feb 10, 2017 19:26
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GimpChimp posted:It seems like you're kind of asking for a confluence of things, though; that the film generate shock out of line with associated genre convention that's wholly unsignalled by editing or camerawork setup. The softer, playful (forgive me) postmodern loving with convention in something like The Departed or Pulp Fiction doesn't count, which is understandable, as even their successful surprises can be swiftly reabsorbed into the general tone and expectations of the film. Being down on anything you can retroactively pick out the work towards setting up, however, seems a little ungenerous as they're surely there more for clarity after the fact rather than to brace a first time viewer in advance. So I'd ask if you're more concerned with the formalism of it, or just something genuinely capable of throwing the audience off kilter inside of a few seconds. Good thoughts. I've seen Fat Girl, and I agree with your edit. I'd say I'm more concerned with the formalism of it. As startling and unexpected as the explosion in Children of Men is, it's true to the form of the scene. Another example would be the startling moment in Dog Soldiers with the animal corpse dropping into the fire. It's shocking, but not formally incongruent. I guess what I'm envisioning is a filmmaker expressly subverting expected formal conventions as a sort of cinematic slight of hand. With the intent of scaring the poo poo out of the audience. "They think they're seeing this kind of scene, but it's actually this kind of scene." From Dusk Till Dawn almost fits the bill, but that's more on the whole film level rather than the individual scene level, so I wouldn't exactly call it shocking. It's also ruined if you've seen even one second of the trailer.
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Feb 10, 2017 19:38
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I would think a better example from Psycho is Arbogast's death, you would think the above shot would be just to establish what the second floor looks like, but then Norma Bates comes charging out of one of the rooms
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Feb 10, 2017 19:38
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The bus scene from the first Final Destination is the first thing that comes to mind.
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Feb 10, 2017 19:42
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How have none of you brought up Jaws yet?
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Feb 10, 2017 19:53
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Purple Monkey posted:I would think a better example from Psycho is Arbogast's death, you would think the above shot would be just to establish what the second floor looks like, but then Norma Bates comes charging out of one of the rooms I see what you're getting at. But I think that in terms of overall story strategy, Marion's death is more, shall we say, "disruptive," because at that point we're left with no characters to identify with. Her story's been carefully set up, we've been following her for forty minutes or whatever, and then...wham! All we're left with is the creepy guy, so it's sort of like we have to start all over again. When Arbogast gets killed, we still have Sam and the sister (whose name doesn't come to mind immediately) to hang our hats on.
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Feb 10, 2017 19:53
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:How have none of you brought up Jaws yet? Actually my mind originally went to the infamous Sam Jackson scene in Deep Blue Sea.
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Feb 10, 2017 20:29
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Lobok posted:Actually my mind originally went to the infamous Sam Jackson scene in Deep Blue Sea. I would say this is the closest so far. The scene has the feel of a typical "rally the morale" scene just before a big showdown, and then nope. Too bad the dogshit CGI ruins the whole thing.
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Feb 10, 2017 20:33
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Lobok posted:Actually my mind originally went to the infamous Sam Jackson scene in Deep Blue Sea. I saw that movie so many times. "You ate my bird" cracks me up every time, and when LL Cool J axes his way through the ovens to escape was kinda neat. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwTEdFFD0Hw Sam Jackson scene because https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uz1J9PUcMQ0 MacheteZombie fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Feb 10, 2017 |
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Feb 10, 2017 20:37
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Cage posted:I'm sure you've seen it, but what about Marvin in Pulp Fiction? That any closer to what you're looking for? Brad Pitt's character's death in Meet Joe Black is similar.
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Feb 10, 2017 23:02
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Spatulater bro! posted:Are there any movies that surprise or shock the audience by subverting conventional film language? To explain what I mean here's an example taken from my imagination: Two people are sitting in a restaurant having a conversation. The formalities of the scene - the music, the compositions, etc - all suggest that it's a standard two-shot over-the-shoulder dialogue scene wherein two people are simply relaying exposition to each other and to the audience. But out of absolutely nowhere a gunman appears and shoots one of them. The film gave no hints or foreshadowing, via musical cues, setup shots or any other film technique, that this was about to happen. Okay i haven't seen it so I can't guarantee it, but its reputation precedes it for this: what about Takashi Miike's Audition?
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Feb 10, 2017 23:49
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Honestly Top Secret was the first movie I thought of 
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Feb 11, 2017 02:59
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My first thought was a scene from the Heath Ledger movie "Two Hands". Two kids walking and talking and then something happens out of nowhere.
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Feb 11, 2017 03:00
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Spatulater bro! posted:Are there any movies that surprise or shock the audience by subverting conventional film language? To explain what I mean here's an example taken from my imagination: Two people are sitting in a restaurant having a conversation. The formalities of the scene - the music, the compositions, etc - all suggest that it's a standard two-shot over-the-shoulder dialogue scene wherein two people are simply relaying exposition to each other and to the audience. But out of absolutely nowhere a gunman appears and shoots one of them. The film gave no hints or foreshadowing, via musical cues, setup shots or any other film technique, that this was about to happen. In a different way, the last shot of Full Frontal does this. Similarly, Mulholland Dr and Inland Empire both subvert audience expectations via the technical filmmaking elements (as opposed to the story).
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Feb 11, 2017 09:44
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I don't know if it's exactly what you're looking for, but the shotgun scene (and the rewind which immediately erases it from the movie) in Funny Games plays with this idea a little.
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Feb 11, 2017 10:03
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Spatulater bro! posted:I would say this is the closest so far. The scene has the feel of a typical "rally the morale" scene just before a big showdown, and then nope. Too bad the dogshit CGI ruins the whole thing. Considering the year and how the scene plays, there is pretty much no way it could have looked better without throwing a lot more money at it, which wasn't ever going to happen on a shark movie.
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Feb 11, 2017 11:48
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Spatulater bro! posted:Are there any movies that surprise or shock the audience by subverting conventional film language? To explain what I mean here's an example taken from my imagination: Two people are sitting in a restaurant having a conversation. The formalities of the scene - the music, the compositions, etc - all suggest that it's a standard two-shot over-the-shoulder dialogue scene wherein two people are simply relaying exposition to each other and to the audience. But out of absolutely nowhere a gunman appears and shoots one of them. The film gave no hints or foreshadowing, via musical cues, setup shots or any other film technique, that this was about to happen. When the girl interacted with the onscreen text in Detention it kind of weirded me out
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Feb 11, 2017 13:17
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Spatulater bro! posted:I would think, if done well and sparingly, a movie like this could create a hell of a lot of tension by keeping it up. The audience would be on their guard even through the most seemingly mundane scene. What about something like the final scene of the sopranos
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Feb 11, 2017 20:52
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God drat if that isn't one of the tensest scenes in film/TV history despite literally nothing happening
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Feb 11, 2017 21:54
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bows1 posted:What about something like the final scene of the sopranos Escobarbarian posted:God drat if that isn't one of the tensest scenes in film/TV history despite literally nothing happening It's an amazing cap on a fantastic six seasons. I can't imagine it ending any other way. Well I can, but my imagination says it would be worse & in this case I trust it.
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Feb 12, 2017 03:34
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I feel like there's at least a few points in Jacob's Ladder (especially the Director's Cut) that achieve this. But then by the end, you're completely disoriented and ready for almost anything to happen, up to and including Satan materialising in front of you and dragging you down to Hell
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Feb 12, 2017 19:17
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WeAreTheRomans posted:I feel like there's at least a few points in Jacob's Ladder (especially the Director's Cut) that achieve this. But then by the end, you're completely disoriented and ready for almost anything to happen, up to and including Satan materialising in front of you and dragging you down to Hell But if you've made your peace, then you'll see it's really an angel freeing you from the earth.
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Feb 12, 2017 19:22
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Spatulater bro! posted:Are there any movies that surprise or shock the audience by subverting conventional film language? To explain what I mean here's an example taken from my imagination: Two people are sitting in a restaurant having a conversation. The formalities of the scene - the music, the compositions, etc - all suggest that it's a standard two-shot over-the-shoulder dialogue scene wherein two people are simply relaying exposition to each other and to the audience. But out of absolutely nowhere a gunman appears and shoots one of them. The film gave no hints or foreshadowing, via musical cues, setup shots or any other film technique, that this was about to happen. See the movie Walker.
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Feb 12, 2017 20:55
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Walker is so loving weird it makes Cox's other movies seem tame, and yet it's not even an exaggeration of the actual events
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Feb 12, 2017 21:28
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Walker has one particular moment in it that has freaked me out than anything in any Lynch movie.
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Feb 12, 2017 22:25
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The trailer for Red Eye starts off with romantic comedy cliches before revealing its real nature as a thriller. I'm trying to remember if the actual movie does the same thing, but the posters and whatnot didn't disguise it
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Feb 14, 2017 10:21
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I feel like there are plenty of these moments in Coen Bros films and Jeremy Saulnier films. The Cohens for example, make you think like you're watching a quirky comedy but then there are massive bursts of violence out of nowhere. I know it's not actually the Coen's but it's certainly an homage to them; The pilot of Season 1 of Fargo when his wife dies is completely unexpected. Ditto for Saulnier. Blue Ruin's premise is about subverting our expectations of action movies/thrillers.
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Feb 15, 2017 00:11
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In shows where there's a cliffhanger season finale, when the next season picks up right where the cliffhanger left off, do they film that little bit at the time of the cliffhanger? I'm mostly curious how they get the actors to look exactly the same, since if they don't film it then, they have to come back months later.
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Feb 15, 2017 01:33
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Leavemywife posted:In shows where there's a cliffhanger season finale, when the next season picks up right where the cliffhanger left off, do they film that little bit at the time of the cliffhanger? I'm mostly curious how they get the actors to look exactly the same, since if they don't film it then, they have to come back months later. It depends on the show. Sometimes they are filmed back to back, and sometimes they aren't. Sometimes you can tell it was, because the actors look different starting in the second episode of the next season. I just realized you mean the little bit. Sometime they film the whole two-parter back to back. I'm not sure about your specific question.
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Feb 15, 2017 03:14
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Looten Plunder posted:I feel like there are plenty of these moments in Coen Bros films and Jeremy Saulnier films. That hammer to the dome made me quit watching Fargo season 1 just out of shock. I've since watched both seasons twice but that was just not what I was looking for at that particular moment. Yich
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Feb 15, 2017 03:14
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Snak posted:It depends on the show. Sometimes they are filmed back to back, and sometimes they aren't. Sometimes you can tell it was, because the actors look different starting in the second episode of the next season. It's hard to explain what I mean, but I have an example. Supernatural spoilers ahoy! At the end of Supernatural season six, Sam, Dean, and Cass are in a standoff. I don't recall exactly what happens, but when season 7 starts, they're still in the standoff, same spots and all. Did they film the finale of season six and the first few minutes of the seventh season all at once?
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Feb 15, 2017 03:26
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Possibly? It's also possible they filmed the entire first episode of season 7 at the same time as the season 6 finale. Some shows do that. Some shows also don't even know what's going to happen as they haven't decided how the cliffhanger is going to resolve.
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Feb 15, 2017 03:45
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Snak posted:Possibly? It's also possible they filmed the entire first episode of season 7 at the same time as the season 6 finale. Some shows do that. Oh, okay! Thanks a ton.
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Feb 15, 2017 03:53
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Who shot Mr Burns?
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Feb 15, 2017 05:46
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