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Arivia posted:The thing to understand is that there are plenty of places on the internet where saying mean things is an offense. That's not the case on SA, where the people who made the game stalked, harassed, and doxxed goons. If you don't like the thread, you can go to enworld. They'll be happy to justify your purchase to you. I'm not looking for my purchase to be justified. I'm sorry that goons got harassed by people that made the game but that really doesn't matter to me.
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Feb 11, 2017 02:39
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Arivia posted:The thing to understand is that there are plenty of places on the internet where saying mean things is an offense. That's not the case on SA, where the people who made the game stalked, harassed, and doxxed goons. If you don't like the thread, you can go to enworld. They'll be happy to justify your purchase to you. Listen, I'm not ~-TRIGGERED-~ by negative comments. I'm just annoyed that every time you get a stick in your rear end you end up dumping wood shavings all over the thread. I just want to ask questions and get answers without having to scroll by a billion posts telling me what a loving idiot I am for my players choosing this system.
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Feb 11, 2017 02:42
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Turtlicious posted:Wait really, can you post the posts or tweets or whatever? I don't have anything at hand because it's been awhile and this is seriously common knowledge in this forum. Zak S and the RPGPundit (both with credits in the core rulebooks) repeatedly harassed a number of Trad Games goons. They did it so much to one goon they had to drop out of the RPG industry and off the Internet entirely. Mike Mearls was complicit in this, knew about it, and probably assisted. This is on top of all the just generic bad system and playtesting stuff, like a goon group getting their online playtesting access revoked for being publicly critical (with no statement against this in their NDA.) 5e is a bad edition. 5e is written by bad people. This forum and this thread have valid reasons to dislike it. If you don't like that, go somewhere else.
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Feb 11, 2017 02:43
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Vengarr posted:Listen, I'm not ~-TRIGGERED-~ by negative comments. I'm just annoyed that every time you get a stick in your rear end you end up dumping wood shavings all over the thread. I just want to ask questions and get answers without having to scroll by a billion posts telling me what a loving idiot I am for my players choosing this system. There are other forums you can do that on. SA isn't one of them.
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Feb 11, 2017 02:44
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Arivia posted:There are other forums you can do that on. SA isn't one of them. Ideally SA is both. There's great information on here as well as great insult comedy.
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Feb 11, 2017 02:48
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Agent355 posted:Ideally SA is both. There's great information on here as well as great insult comedy. This isn't insult comedy it's just whining
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Feb 11, 2017 02:49
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You know it's insult comedy because it's witty and biting. What Arivia is doing is just making GBS threads all over the floor, smearing it on the walls and claiming it's some kind of "high art".
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Feb 11, 2017 02:51
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Agent355 posted:Ideally SA is both. There's great information on here as well as great insult comedy. Then y'all gotta learn to take your lumps. This is a thread about a game that hurt a lot of people here, and it's absurd to think it'll be all camaraderie and joy. You're getting negativity because that's what Trad Games has to offer about 5e.
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Feb 11, 2017 02:51
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Arivia posted:There are other forums you can do that on. SA isn't one of them. There are other forums for you to shitpost on, too.
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Feb 11, 2017 02:51
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Arivia posted:Then y'all gotta learn to take your lumps. This is a thread about a game that hurt a lot of people here, and it's absurd to think it'll be all camaraderie and joy. You're getting negativity because that's what Trad Games has to offer about 5e. Thank God you're here to keep posting about how hurt they all are.
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Feb 11, 2017 02:52
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koreban posted:You know it's insult comedy because it's witty and biting. What Arivia is doing is just making GBS threads all over the floor, smearing it on the walls and claiming it's some kind of "high art". https://www.enworld.com there you go buddy.
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Feb 11, 2017 02:52
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koreban posted:You know it's insult comedy because it's witty and biting. What Arivia is doing is just making GBS threads all over the floor, smearing it on the walls and claiming it's some kind of "high art". Yeah I agree but I'm trying to engage without being just hostile.
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Feb 11, 2017 02:52
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Vengarr posted:There are other forums for you to shitpost on, too. Yeah, but not about this. You'll just have to learn how to deal with disagreement. edit: And I don't seek out other people's forums to shitpost on, anyway. I'm just talking about a game that sucks on the forum I've been talking about it sucking since it was released.
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Feb 11, 2017 02:54
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Arivia posted:Then y'all gotta learn to take your lumps. This is a thread about a game that hurt a lot of people here, and it's absurd to think it'll be all camaraderie and joy. You're getting negativity because that's what Trad Games has to offer about 5e. Yeah, but there's effective and ineffective ways of discussing why 5e sucks. Like, I super hate 5e with a burning passion. Probably more than I should, but D&D is important to me and I find 5e to be eternally insulting. But like, I'd rather just talk about all the ways it sucks and better options than your drive-by shitposting. I'm the literal choir you're preaching to and even I'm getting really loving bored. Because you're not convincing anyone that the game is bad, just that your posting is.
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Feb 11, 2017 02:55
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Found it! Should be in OP! http://failforward.co.uk/post/93348768153/how-dungeons-and-dragons-is-endorsing-the-darkest Click on all the links, holllly poo poo these people are terrible. Agent355 posted:Yeah I agree but I'm trying to engage without being just hostile. Did my advice help you at all or...? I wrote all that specifically for you.
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Feb 11, 2017 02:55
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Arivia posted:Yeah, but not about this. You'll just have to learn how to deal with disagreement. Do you actually play 5e?
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Feb 11, 2017 02:56
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5e is bad, because the authors of 5e Dox transgenders and members of the LGBTQ community, posting their information publically, and out them to their family members over disagreements.
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Feb 11, 2017 02:56
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Turtlicious posted:
Yeah I quoted and responded to it in a previous post but clipped the content out to avoid stretching the page. I like it alot, thats a good way to handle scared specifically. It's not an emotion I often want to evoke in a dnd campaign given the sort of power fantasy DnD is but theres some good ideas there about how to do it well.
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Feb 11, 2017 02:58
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Turtlicious posted:5e is bad, because the authors of 5e Dox transgenders and members of the LGBTQ community, posting their information publically, and out them to their family members over disagreements. I mean that's lovely but it's not why the game is bad or not
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Feb 11, 2017 02:59
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Arivia posted:https://www.enworld.com there you go buddy. Not interested. I don't need my D&D forum to be all rainbows, sunshines, and cheerleaders. I would prefer the "insult comedians" to put *some* effort into goodposting though. You come off as either someone who was personally burned by the gametesting fiasco, or else a really creepy level of white knight whose made it his life's mission to make sure no one else can have fun with this thing you dislike so much. What I'm saying is, go lurk BYOB or FYAD for a bit and pick up on how to insult comedy. Bring the thread quality up with your detractions.
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Feb 11, 2017 02:59
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Vengarr posted:Do you actually play 5e? No. I don't play games by people who attack my friends. I do talk in this thread because it's fun to see what mess they're making, and since it also just does general D&D discussion and some FR stuff. Turtlicious posted:5e is bad, because the authors of 5e Dox transgenders and members of the LGBTQ community, posting their information publically, and out them to their family members over disagreements. It's "transgender people" not transgenders; and that's the T in LGBTQ anyway. There's more to it than that, but yep you've got a good part from that failforward link. empathe posted:I mean that's lovely but it's not why the game is bad or not Maybe you don't pay a lot of attention to what limited ethics of consumption exist, but bad people making it does make a thing bad from a consumption perspective. @koreban: Not really interested in your idiocy, especially after you intentionally misgendered me after being told otherwise. gently caress off.
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Feb 11, 2017 03:03
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Agent355 posted:Yeah thats the stuff. I'm not solely interested in just being scared but eliciting any sort of desired emotion for the given scenario. Having characters who care when the person they knew dies, or actually wish vengeance on things when their betrayed by the quest giver they thought was on their side. But this is pretty general sort of advice too so thanks for that. Oh gently caress I missed this, haha, sorry. That evolves naturally, but players are pretty easy to manipulate. They like people who are nice to them, if a guy literally gives them free poo poo, even if it doesn't mean a whole lot (free stay at an inn for example,) the players latch onto that. Players will loving go balistic over 2 things. 1.) Theft, they will travel to the end of the earth to get something back that was stolen. Even if they have the gold to replace it. Even if you offer a new one for free, they're going to track down the original thief and get their stuff back. and 2.) Quest Givers who don't give what was promised. A lying quest giver will get you the vengeance oaths you crave. Especially if they're smug about it.
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Feb 11, 2017 03:04
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empathe posted:I mean that's lovely but it's not why the game is bad or not Yeah, but that's new to me, we've already hashed the old stuff out to death.
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Feb 11, 2017 03:05
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Arivia posted:@koreban: Not really interested in your idiocy, especially after you intentionally misgendered me after being told otherwise. gently caress off. Genuine apology for the misgendering. I must have missed that part of your previous posting and it wasn't intentional. That said, your posting is still bad and you should see to that.
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Feb 11, 2017 03:06
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Arivia posted:Maybe you don't pay a lot of attention to what limited ethics of consumption exist, but bad people making it does make a thing bad from a consumption perspective. So write to WotC and try to get them fired. Do something about it instead of making GBS threads on people just getting into this as a hobby and selecting the current version being published. Turtlicious posted:Yeah, but that's new to me, we've already hashed the old stuff out to death. Everything I've seen people post to show how it's bad has basically seemed like "yes, these are legit issues for very experienced players" or players that min-max or try to break things or play in games with bad DMs. None of that feels like it'll affect me playing with RL friends who are all also excited to finally play something they've been interested in checking out for a long time. empathe fucked around with this message at 03:10 on Feb 11, 2017 |
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Feb 11, 2017 03:07
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empathe posted:So write to WotC and try to get them fired. Do something about it instead of making GBS threads on people just getting into this as a hobby and selecting the current version being published. Actually, if you read the article I posted, there was lashback! Mike Mearls said "If anyone has any direct evidence of racism or sexism or any other form of discrimination on the part of people attached to D&D, please drop a line to me. Email is [removed]" Goons sent a ton of info in, along with a ton of other people actually, as these guys were pretty famous poo poo bags. Mike decided to protect them, and said he had gotten 0 emails at his personal email address, when he received lash back he deleted everything 
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Feb 11, 2017 03:12
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oh cool we get to have the Roman Polanski and John Landis argument again
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Feb 11, 2017 03:12
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empathe posted:So write to WotC and try to get them fired. Do something about it instead of making GBS threads on people just getting into this as a hobby and selecting the current version being published. It's 2017. There are far better games you can choose to play with new people. How about the latest Star Wars games?
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Feb 11, 2017 03:13
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So try again and go to their PR / corporate with Hasbro.Arivia posted:It's 2017. There are far better games you can choose to play with new people. How about the latest Star Wars games? We don't want to play Star Wars. Pathfinder is too complex for us at this point. We wanted to play the name brand. So we will.
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Feb 11, 2017 03:14
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empathe posted:So try again and go to their PR / corporate with Hasbro. You obviously have no idea how this sort of thing works. I'm guessing you're a white cishet man who's never really had to think about actual problems before. Time to grow up, child!
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Feb 11, 2017 03:15
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empathe posted:I mean that's lovely but it's not why the game is bad or not Uh pretty sure The Pianist is a lovely movie for the same reasons
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Feb 11, 2017 03:16
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Arivia posted:You obviously have no idea how this sort of thing works. I'm guessing you're a white cishet man who's never really had to think about actual problems before. Time to grow up, child! How does it work then? You all just lead a crusade to tell people they suck for playing 5E on a paid forum? Fight the good fight.
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Feb 11, 2017 03:17
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empathe posted:Everything I've seen people post to show how it's bad has basically seemed like "yes, these are legit issues for very experienced players" or players that min-max or try to break things or play in games with bad DMs. Hey, I haven't insulted you for liking DnD, you probably shouldn't say that everyone who doesn't like 5e dislike it because they have bad players or are bad GM's that's a lovely way to hold a conversation. What level did you start at? What did you like about it besides "Is DnD and friends got hyped over Critical Role" or however they showed interest.
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Feb 11, 2017 03:18
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empathe posted:How does it work then? You all just lead a crusade to tell people they suck for playing 5E on a paid forum? Yeah, you tell people wherever and whenever you can. And again, this was never a particularly 5e-friendly place. There are plenty of other forums for that, and you can go there if you can't accept disagreement and conflict here.
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Feb 11, 2017 03:19
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empathe posted:How does it work then? You all just lead a crusade to tell people they suck for playing 5E on a paid forum? Ask a question, get an answer. Like, I'm not going to tell you to read a 500 page thread, but I swear to you that anyone who's ever come here with an inquiry about the game and how to run it better has gotten a response, and that we bag on the game a lot precisely because we've played it, experienced it, and have written extensively about its issues and design.
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Feb 11, 2017 03:20
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koreban posted:3 successes and they escaped the vortex, 3 failures and they would have been pulled further in with 1 chance at a dc25 group check to escape back to the "safer" area, and 3 more chances to roll at dc15 majority to escape. This is pretty good, similar idea to 4e's skill challenges. Which weren't great but I think were still better than roll-once-pass/fail. Sharparse posted:I was a little surprised at how hard the first dungeon was as well. Or maybe just at how squishy 1st level characters were. I definitely ended up faking a few attack rolls for the boss, and reducing his damage a bit as well. I didn't really want anyone to die on their first ever DnD session. Literally just give everyone +20hp or +constitution hit points at first level. It alleviates the splatteriness a fair bit and doesn't end up making a huge difference in the long run. If that seems too much, think about it like this: There's 6-8 encounters in a "day". If the PCs are fighting stuff that does ~5 damage per hit, and you give them +20hp, you're letting them absorb one extra hit every 2 or so encounters. Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 03:24 on Feb 11, 2017 |
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Feb 11, 2017 03:21
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empathe, your very first session you had to fudge dice? that should be a bad sign
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Feb 11, 2017 03:21
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And let's not pretend there's some magic constellation that makes 5e playable. It's a mess from level 1 and riddled with "mother may I [ask your DM]" throughout the entirety of the core rules. It's not like Pathfinder or 3e where it goes off the rails after 5th/9th/11th level (your choice), it's just bad from the very beginning. It's not about bad DMs, it's not about min-maxing; it's just trash creatively and critically from the very beginning.
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Feb 11, 2017 03:22
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Turtlicious posted:Hey, I haven't insulted you for liking DnD, you probably shouldn't say that everyone who doesn't like 5e dislike it because they have bad players or are bad GM's that's a lovely way to hold a conversation. We started at level 1. Everyone had always wanted to play DnD, me included. I wasn't going to bring them a different system.
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Feb 11, 2017 03:23
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Empathe, if you want to discuss the game, complaining about that not happening while it's happening but you're doing somethng else isn't the way to make it happen.
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Feb 11, 2017 03:24
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