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AirborneNinja posted:Book Bobbie was way more mellow and professional when introduced I think. We don't really get much about her at all before poo poo goes completely bananas and she has to deal with the psychological impact from that. They had better do that scene right. The first scene in the first episode of this season was a better representation of the MMC than the rest of the stuff that followed. uber_stoat posted:Real live US marines do poo poo like that, don't see why Martians wouldn't. So yeah, that's a legit parallel. Svaha fucked around with this message at 04:24 on Feb 11, 2017 |
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Feb 11, 2017 04:14
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Eiba posted:Introducing Avasarala early was fantastic and she's been constantly wonderful to have around. Part of the problem ok entirely the problem is the actor playing Bobbie is loving terrible at her job.
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Feb 11, 2017 04:27
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fyodor posted:Part of the problem ok entirely the problem is the actor playing Bobbie is loving terrible at her job. Everything she's done so far was probably filmed in 1-2 days of shooting. I say give her a chance to settle into the role before declaring her loving terrible.
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Feb 11, 2017 05:19
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The Muffinlord posted:The thing they gloss over is how long space travel still takes, even with the Epstein drives. Sure you can accelerate endlessly, but only at speeds that would be comfortable to endure. It's mentioned in the books that some of the longer voyages have taken months to complete, although they mercifully don't have too many chapters about not going mad from sharing the same stank air with people for that long. I'd imagine long-haul space travel mostly attracts people who don't mind being alone with their thoughts for long spans of time or the same stories over and over. I agree they don't do a great job getting across transit times in show, but travel wouldn't take months. The only trip I can think of that would even remotely have taken "months" is in (book stuff) Cibola Burn. Because of the "speed limit" around the gates In the 1st season thread, we did the math on 0.5g acceleration from 0m/s to the halfway point and then 0.5g decel from halfway point to 0m/a. Even at the longest (one side of the belt across the solar system to the other on a hyperbolic path outside the ecliptic)is just about 2 weeks. Cargo haulers are probably more sedate at 0.3g, but it's not a linear increase in time. 1g to 0.5g only added a couple days on to the trip. For Earthers and MCR Fleet, 1g would be perfect. Regular Martians would probably 0.3g to 0.5g and belters 0.3g to be in their comfort zones. If you have a magic acceleration drive, why not take advantage to make the ride as comfortable as possible. Constant acceleration has a HUGE impact on velocity and transit time. Partly because you are increasing velocity every moment to reach the halfway point (and then flipping and decreasing that velocity for the second half), but also because you don't need to plot huge arcing ballistic paths to get to your destination. Proteus Jones fucked around with this message at 05:30 on Feb 11, 2017 |
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Feb 11, 2017 05:25
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So does that mean that entirely Earther crewed ships have a higher "cruising speed" then other ships?
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Feb 11, 2017 05:32
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The Muffinlord posted:The thing they gloss over is how long space travel still takes, even with the Epstein drives. Sure you can accelerate endlessly, but only at speeds that would be comfortable to endure. It's mentioned in the books that some of the longer voyages have taken months to complete, although they mercifully don't have too many chapters about not going mad from sharing the same stank air with people for that long. I'd imagine long-haul space travel mostly attracts people who don't mind being alone with their thoughts for long spans of time or the same stories over and over. Yeah, but you'll get that in any adaptation to T.V. or film, it's not exciting to watch a long transit time and it's rarely worth precious screen time to break it down. Now, since in the Expanse you can easily hit weeks or months of travel time depending on your destination it might be worth reinforcing that fact, but at the same time it's not like the characters make a big deal about it in the book. It's just "oh, we're going to be burning to this place for X long period of time? Cool let's go." and then the next chapter will have the character at their destination. Now what will bother me is if they start ignoring communication delays and have a live video chat take place between, say, Tycho Staton and Earth, because that's a pretty important detail to get right, in my view anyway.
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Feb 11, 2017 05:33
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Svaha posted:People were saying Wes Chatham as Amos was terrible in season 1 (before they got dogpiled by book-readers.) Fair enough. Perhaps I have a bias because she seems miscast for a rough and tumble space marine. Another thought is maybe I'm dumb.
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Feb 11, 2017 05:39
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WrightOfWay posted:So does that mean that entirely Earther crewed ships have a higher "cruising speed" then other ships? I would imagine it does, although that's just when they want to stay in their comfort zones. Everyone can accelerate much faster provided they don't mind being pinned in a crash couch for days.
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Feb 11, 2017 05:40
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WrightOfWay posted:So does that mean that entirely Earther crewed ships have a higher "cruising speed" then other ships? There are a few chapters where the gang needs to get somewhere in a hurry and belters moan about being uncomfortable, but it’s never generalised as a thing that gives Earth corps an advantage. They seem to care at least a little about reactor fuel and propellant mass expenditures. Someone upthread said “if the Martian navy burns at 1 g for training, can’t the UN navy burn at 1.5 g and become beastly super soldiers?” Maybe, but AFWK they don’t. Platystemon fucked around with this message at 05:44 on Feb 11, 2017 |
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Feb 11, 2017 05:41
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fyodor posted:Fair enough. Perhaps I have a bias because she seems miscast for a rough and tumble space marine. Another thought is maybe I'm dumb. As I said, this version of her was never in the books. She has some stuff coming that shapes the character a lot. I'm less interested in how she is portrayed now vs what the character is like at the other side of all that.
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Feb 11, 2017 05:51
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It was specifically called out in this last episode that Mars has superior ships. Given the MCR's training and operating in 1G *and* the fact they're all the same specieis when you get right down to it, I can't imagine Earth having any real advantage other than sheer numbers.
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Feb 11, 2017 05:53
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NowonSA posted:Yeah, but you'll get that in any adaptation to T.V. or film, it's not exciting to watch a long transit time and it's rarely worth precious screen time to break it down. Now, since in the Expanse you can easily hit weeks or months of travel time depending on your destination it might be worth reinforcing that fact, but at the same time it's not like the characters make a big deal about it in the book. It's just "oh, we're going to be burning to this place for X long period of time? Cool let's go." and then the next chapter will have the character at their destination. Enh, that's not really true. I'm going through the books for a second time, and they actually do make a big deal about travel time in the books all the time. Especially once the gates open up, and they start traveling to all the ring worlds. If I remember correctly, the Earth gate is beyond the reach of Pluto. So from Earth to Illus they say it takes 18 months.
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Feb 11, 2017 05:54
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Nihonniboku posted:Enh, that's not really true. I'm going through the books for a second time, and they actually do make a big deal about travel time in the books all the time. Especially once the gates open up, and they start traveling to all the ring worlds. If I remember correctly, the Earth gate is beyond the reach of Pluto. So from Earth to Illus they say it takes 18 months. Right but I think the majority of that is due to the (book stuff again, sorry)Slow Zone around the gates. It limits anything with physical mass to 600 m/s. That's where the majority of your transit time is going to stack up.
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Feb 11, 2017 05:58
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flosofl posted:Right but I think the majority of that is due to the (book stuff again, sorry)Slow Zone around the gates. It limits anything with physical mass to 600 m/s. That's where the majority of your transit time is going to stack up. Nope. Once Miller convinced the Ring Station to lift the restrictions, full speeds resumed. The name the Slow Zone for the area around the Rings and Medina Station simply stuck.
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Feb 11, 2017 06:03
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Nihonniboku posted:Nope. Once Miller convinced the Ring Station to lift the restrictions, full speeds resumed. The name the Slow Zone for the area around the Rings and Medina Station simply stuck. drat. That's right. I completely forgot that. However, I did a quick lookup, and distance from Earth to just Pluto is about an order of magnitude greater than it is to Jupiter. So when you add up whatever distance form the far side of the gate it probably does end up being a major trip, magic drive or no.
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Feb 11, 2017 06:07
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fyodor posted:Part of the problem ok entirely the problem is the actor playing Bobbie is loving terrible at her job. Like, who could make that likable or interesting? fyodor posted:Fair enough. Perhaps I have a bias because she seems miscast for a rough and tumble space marine. Another thought is maybe I'm dumb.
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Feb 11, 2017 07:10
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I kind of took it at face value that Miller killed Dresden for revenge, but his reasoning makes a lot of sense: Dude was already pulling some Mengele-type "for the greater good" charm over Holden and Fred and probably could've talked his way out of anything. Killing him before he got too far in his manipulations was a good call.
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Feb 11, 2017 07:29
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Nihonniboku posted:Enh, that's not really true. I'm going through the books for a second time, and they actually do make a big deal about travel time in the books all the time. Especially once the gates open up, and they start traveling to all the ring worlds. If I remember correctly, the Earth gate is beyond the reach of Pluto. So from Earth to Illus they say it takes 18 months. Well, yeah, I was hoping to avoid bringing more book spoiler stuff into here and it seems I invited it in. No biggie though. What I meant was the characters don't really sweat a long travel time to get to a job or just to where they want to go the way almost all modern people do. The only modern comparison I can think of is long deployments on military or shipping naval ships, and the closest obvious modern situation is serving for months at a time on a nuclear submarine that's constantly submerged. A lot of people just aren't built to handle that, and I'm sure plenty on Earth aren't in the Expanse, but huge swaths of humanity just treat it as normal. Obviously the books specify how much travel time is involved because they're books, you have plenty of room for that world building detail stuff.
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Feb 11, 2017 07:30
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NowonSA posted:huge swaths of humanity just treat it as normal. No. A tiny fraction of humanity that we've seen travels in space and so it is normal for them. Earthers who go out, do so by choice, every single one we've seen. Martians are also out by choice, seeing as how every martian we've seen is either military, former military, or politicians. Belters are literally born and live out their whole lives in conditions not much better than a ship. I mean, we literally only see people who are ok with space because the show is set...in space! Maybe unnamed background extra #3 in one of the earth scenes gets spacesick, we don't know.
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Feb 11, 2017 07:50
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NowonSA posted:Well, yeah, I was hoping to avoid bringing more book spoiler stuff into here and it seems I invited it in. No biggie though. What I meant was the characters don't really sweat a long travel time to get to a job or just to where they want to go the way almost all modern people do. The only modern comparison I can think of is long deployments on military or shipping naval ships, and the closest obvious modern situation is serving for months at a time on a nuclear submarine that's constantly submerged. A lot of people just aren't built to handle that, and I'm sure plenty on Earth aren't in the Expanse, but huge swaths of humanity just treat it as normal.
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Feb 11, 2017 07:56
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The Expanse, Season 2: "So... Do you like space gladiator movies?" The Expanse, Season 2: "I think all that radiation failed to give me superpowers"
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Feb 11, 2017 09:35
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Svaha posted:The Expanse, Season 2: "So... Do you like space gladiator movies?" "Have you ever talked to a pedophile?"
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Feb 11, 2017 09:51
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The Expanse, Season 2: "I just...Hate...Space!" 
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Feb 11, 2017 10:15
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Baronjutter posted:Also chad coleman has a recurring role on Always Sunny playing a very very different character. I never put two and two together. Dee would make a pretty good Belter.
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Feb 11, 2017 10:24
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Got a quick book/future plot question: Hi, and thanks for moving over this spoiler.  It is my understanding that the whole alien/proto molecule angle gets resolved more or less quickly, or at least the story focuses much more on the UN/Martian conflict in the future. Is that correct? No need to give a comprehensive answer, just a quick, yes or no is sufficient. Many thanks in advance!
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Feb 11, 2017 10:33
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Tarquinn posted:Got a quick book/future plot question: Hi, and thanks for moving over this spoiler. The protomolecule is put more‐or‐less on the back burner in Caliban’s War.
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Feb 11, 2017 10:39
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Tarquinn posted:Got a quick book/future plot question: Hi, and thanks for moving over this spoiler.
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Feb 11, 2017 10:44
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Still feels like they're sabotaging what could be a great show and putting out a merely good show.  On the plus side, art design is fantastic - the ships, the sets, the props, the costumes - they're killing it. The actors for Amos and Miller are killing it. Pretty much every scene with Amos has been compelling, from confronting Miller to figuring out his fellow sociopath. The effects shots of the enemy PDCs tearing through the Roci were legit beautiful even down to the gently tilting camera, and I rewatched every gif posted in the thread. Also episode 3 had way more breathing room for characterisation, like that montage of Alex obsessively drilling the simulation, Miller refocusing his own twisted obsession weirdly (but interestingly?) contrasted to Naomi simply cutting loose to the jamming sounds of 100,000 dying people. So that's cool.Buuuuut on the other hand! Weird mad-haired ranting evil scientist in janitor jumpsuit Dresden was way less memorable than the smug suit-wearing corporate face of the Protomolecule Dresden from the books. I can only assume that seemed too cliché but it's such a bizarre adaptation change that makes the whole thing feel flat. In the books it felt like they'd actually caught the head of the snake and his unsettling calm was way more impactful. Plus the more corporate vibe would've led more nicely into the Protogen Protomolecule "they found an alien weapon and the first thing they did was BRAND it" which the episode really needed. They also glossed over the whole "extra-solar" thing which sucked. That reveal is so huge (and would've drastically improved the conclusion of season 1!) and the characters don't really discuss the implications of this information, and just immediately go back to their interpersonal relationships after an initial "Did he say...?" like nothing happened. The show still shoots a lot of scenes very flat, like a soap opera would. grilldos made a fantastic point about the blocking on page 7. Look at Holden and Naomi arguing in the bedroom in this ep, they both just stand up and stand still and face each other and it's just a-shot, b-shot, bizarrely static and drama-less. While everyone else stands perfectly still and exposits in low voices, Miller at least always gets to act and display character in the way he moves and in his expressions, and the show doesn't seem to trust anyone else with that. (Amos is obviously played more subtle but even the way he leans on the glass of the prison cell in the background while Holden and Scientist Man have their talk about Eros feels like it's more than Holden has done physically in three episodes.) I'm really curious what the first/second unit direction split was in the show, because the Avasarala scenes usually have some interesting lighting and cinematography (though the Earth setting obviously affords the former), the Miller in the Mormon Holograph room was shot in a really cool way, and then on the other end of the spectrum you have the incredibly flat Martian marine scenes that are all exactly the same. quote:INT MARTIAN SHIP Three episodes of that! I'm not ready to blame the actors (re: Bobbie) yet because they all suck in those scenes. Because all of the Martian material has sucked. It's broadly sketched and cliché ridden so you never get any sense of realistic characterisation. And it never captures that military (or marine) atmosphere either, feeling like it was written by someone who didn't do any research but vaguely remembers a few war movies so they're pretty much going off "they say 'sir' and 'oorah' sometimes and occasionally stand to attention". VagueRant fucked around with this message at 13:53 on Feb 11, 2017 |
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Feb 11, 2017 13:51
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The MRC Marine stuff screams of fan-service to get Bobbie on screen ASAP. It does literally *nothing* to advance the plot other than And the depth of characterization so far has been lacking. Which is weird, because inconsistent as it's been, at times a lot of the background players in the rest of the show seem interesting at some level. INTRODUCING BOBBIE AND THE REDSHIRTS: Bobbie - I really hate Earth. A lot. And I'm strong. The Lieutenant - I sure am war-weary. Really, you kids just don't understand war. The Rich Bitch - I'm rich but I'm regular folk. I'm also xenophobic to the point of seriously threatening my ELITE squad's cohesion. Earth Immigrant - I may be from Earth, but Mars is my home. Stop picking on me. Some Guy: Really, I'm an integral member. But I'll just faaaade into the background. It's a complaint on how the show presents the characters, but I guess(?) some book people feel it's a spoiler of some sort. Whatevs. It's like the show is "here's some characters, but don't get too attached if you know what I mean" Proteus Jones fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Feb 11, 2017 |
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Feb 11, 2017 14:18
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nerdman42 posted:I kind of took it at face value that Miller killed Dresden for revenge, but his reasoning makes a lot of sense: Dude was already pulling some Mengele-type "for the greater good" charm over Holden and Fred and probably could've talked his way out of anything. Killing him before he got too far in his manipulations was a good call. Shiro Ishii and Unit 731
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Feb 11, 2017 14:22
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flosofl posted:The MRC Marine stuff screams of fan-service to get Bobbie on screen ASAP. It does literally *nothing* to advance the plot other than The more import redshirt question is which one gets to pilot the Mech? gohmak fucked around with this message at 14:34 on Feb 11, 2017 |
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Feb 11, 2017 14:31
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Thanks, guys.
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Feb 11, 2017 15:24
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flosofl posted:It was specifically called out in this last episode that Mars has superior ships. Given the MCR's training and operating in 1G *and* the fact they're all the same specieis when you get right down to it, I can't imagine Earth having any real advantage other than sheer numbers. Martian ships are more advanced than Earth ones, but we're not talking nuclear submarine versus ironclad more advanced. Earth ships can still hurt them just fine. And we've seen that spending generations pushing around comparatively helpless belters has made Martians arrogant to the point of sheer loving stupidity. The Martian flagship got its poo poo pushed in in the first real fight it ever found itself in. You could say the same of Earth, but Earth has the numbers to absorb the losses and learn the lessons. All in all, I think Earth would win a protracted fight. Unless Mars started throwing rocks at Earth, but I don't think a culture bent on bringing a dead planet to life could ever countenance such a thing.
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Feb 11, 2017 16:16
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I love the sci-fi stuff going on in the Expanse. Something the show hasn't really touched on yet is how difficult it really is to get out of Earth's gravity. The Earth's navy for instance isn't really being built with any resources that are shot into space from Earth on chemical rockets, I would imagine. Are these Epstein drives also used as rockets to get equipment into space from the surface of planets? Or has Earth constructed space elevators? Or is Earth really just written off as an overpopulated but basically self-sustaining type place, and Earth's power as a force in the Solar system is derived from it's control of orbital, moon-based, and other remote space-based installations?
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Feb 11, 2017 17:11
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gfarrell80 posted:I love the sci-fi stuff going on in the Expanse. Something the show hasn't really touched on yet is how difficult it really is to get out of Earth's gravity. The Earth's navy for instance isn't really being built with any resources that are shot into space from Earth on chemical rockets, I would imagine. Are these Epstein drives also used as rockets to get equipment into space from the surface of planets? Or has Earth constructed space elevators? Or is Earth really just written off as an overpopulated but basically self-sustaining type place, and Earth's power as a force in the Solar system is derived from it's control of orbital, moon-based, and other remote space-based installations? No space elevators. Some ships can manage takeoff and landing with their Epstein drives. Others (I guess those without Epsteins?) rely on help from ground-based mass drivers to get into orbit. I don't recall any chemical rockets. Pretty much any ship with an Epstein drive can accelerate fast enough to kill its crew and then some, so the ability to overcome 1g to get into orbit isn't really the limiting factor.
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Feb 11, 2017 17:48
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probably doesn't help that none of the new martian characters seem to have any chemistry with each other.
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Feb 11, 2017 18:01
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Toast Museum posted:No space elevators. Some ships can manage takeoff and landing with their Epstein drives. Others (I guess those without Epsteins?) rely on help from ground-based mass drivers to get into orbit. I don't recall any chemical rockets. Interesting, cool stuff. In case you nerds want more semi-hard sci-fi to watch that reminds you of The Expanse a little bit, I suggest you check out Outland (1981). It has a lot of the same stuff going on, and is a pretty entertaining as hell movie  Just a smaller labor relations/capitalism run amok/conspiracy story though, no major political factions struggling for power.
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Feb 11, 2017 18:03
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gfarrell80 posted:Interesting, cool stuff. Yeah, but there are some ridiculous goofs in the film, like antigravity jail cells in which blood drips up towards the ceiling and people exploding upon exposure to vacuum. It's basically a remake of High Noon in space, with Sean Connery playing Gary Cooper. Still entertaining, good performances.
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Feb 11, 2017 18:32
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Edit: fine.
Riot Carol Danvers fucked around with this message at 19:12 on Feb 11, 2017 |
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Feb 11, 2017 18:45
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WAR CRIME SYNDICAT posted:Hey guy, not everyone here knows what's going to happen and this is a pretty lovely thing to do. I've read the books so I know, but others don't and you're straight up spoiling things. Good job. I honestly don't remember what happens when they get to where they're going. I not making a comment on their fate. I'm commenting on how shallow the characterization is and how the show is presenting them as if they aren't important.. But thanks for cementing that now Proteus Jones fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Feb 11, 2017 |
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Feb 11, 2017 18:50
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