Crawl .20: Home of the Frog Dog

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Crawl .20: Home of the Frog Dog

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

Sage Grimm posted:

Short blades are fine for use in stabbing as they do still give you a damage bonus, just that daggers will reach the cap in half the skill. With his skills and Dex as they are, daggers just reached the cap of 30. All other short blades would have ~22 after stepdown. And that's ignoring the additional base level damage bonus that all weapons would get.

From personal experience, if you have a decent non-dagger short blade then it's generally enough to one-shot most enemies without needing to hold a slot for dagger. And I find that the opportunity cost of switching to dagger for sleep stabs is probably worse; you don't want to hang around in Line of Sight to give your potential target more time to notice you.

Wasn't this changed a bit ago so all short blades has the same damage bonus for stabbing? (I also feel like all non short blade weapons might have had their mild stabbing bonuses flattened.)

# ? Feb 10, 2017 21:29

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# ? May 13, 2024 23:14

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

IronicDongz posted:

Wasn't this changed a bit ago so all short blades has the same damage bonus for stabbing? (I also feel like all non short blade weapons might have had their mild stabbing bonuses flattened.)

All short blades except for daggers have the same stabbing bonus, but that isn't new. You're thinking of this change, which didn't touch short blades.

# ? Feb 10, 2017 21:34

Sage Grimm: Feb 18, 2013; Let's go explorin' little dude!

I did a bit of code diving for that post: it operates on the same formula, it just literally halves the raw bonus value if it's a non-dagger short blade. Afterward it applies a general formula for all types instead of having long blades and one-handed polearms??? being exceptions.

# ? Feb 10, 2017 21:35

WeedlordGoku69: Feb 12, 2015; by Cyrano4747

What's a better dagger ego for a SpEn who just cleared D:3, venom or electrocution? I've got +1 daggers of both, and I figure either's a big upgrade from my unbranded +1 dagger I started with.

e: nevermind, fatfingered around Prince Ribbit and lost the character. :rip:

# ? Feb 10, 2017 21:52

LogicNinja: Jan 21, 2011; ...the blur blurs blurringly across the blurred blur in a blur of blurring blurriness that blurred...

Sojenus posted:

A lot of the mutations in the game are just "a number is higher or lower yay or boo" and pretty much equivalent to equipment. Good for slot-restricted races but not very interesting otherwise. Most of the game altering mutations are bad ones, so it just amplifies the punitive feel of the system when good ones are nice to have but not typically noticeable while the bad ones are very impactful, and the system is forced on you.

I think mutations would be best as an entirely opt-in system of purple chuggin' where you roll the dice to risk those game defining bad mutations to get equivalently game defining positive mutations. Demonspawn are cool and good and popular because the high tier mutations are mechanically interesting and can make characters with unique sets of abilities, whereas the mutations other races have access to are largely just weird temporary equipment ego slots and the whole system seems extraneous besides making me feel bad for seeing lots of red on my character sheet.

also remove malmutate regardless

This exactly.

# ? Feb 10, 2017 21:54

WeedlordGoku69: Feb 12, 2015; by Cyrano4747

Hey, I don't really know the code for malmutations, does every effect have an equal chance of triggering? If so, I think an easy way to fix malmutate would be to give it a weighted probability table so that you're more likely to get, like, herbivore or expending MP to use wands or shouting than something that'll straight-up turbofuck your character like berserkitis or teleportitis.

You can leave those in the table, but they should have a smaller chance of triggering than the more-workable bad mutations.

# ? Feb 10, 2017 21:58

ChickenWing: Jul 22, 2010

LORD OF BOOTY posted:

What's a better dagger ego for a SpEn who just cleared D:3, venom or electrocution? I've got +1 daggers of both, and I figure either's a big upgrade from my unbranded +1 dagger I started with.

e: nevermind, fatfingered around Prince Ribbit and lost the character.

Doesn't electrocution brand make noises in some cases? I think venom would probably be superior, especially because you can apply then flee

# ? Feb 10, 2017 22:11

Sage Grimm: Feb 18, 2013; Let's go explorin' little dude!

Nope! Getting electrocuted adds nothing to the noise of the attack. This plus the fact that fewer enemies in the early game have rElec mean I would lean harder on that brand over venom.

# ? Feb 10, 2017 22:42

Floodkiller: May 31, 2011

Sage Grimm posted:

Nope! Getting electrocuted adds nothing to the noise of the attack. This plus the fact that fewer enemies in the early game have rElec mean I would lean harder on that brand over venom.

The text should probably be changed to reflect this better, as "There is a sudden explosion of sparks!" really implies a loud noise.

# ? Feb 10, 2017 23:38

Fitzy Fitz: May 14, 2005

There is a silent but deadly explosion of farts.

# ? Feb 10, 2017 23:46

Ferrinus: Jun 19, 2003; i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

Floodkiller posted:

The text should probably be changed to reflect this better, as "There is a sudden explosion of sparks!" really implies a loud noise.

Just make it "lightning courses through the ___'s body!" or something. "You can briefly see the ____'s skeleton or lack thereof!"

# ? Feb 11, 2017 00:08

Internet Kraken: Apr 24, 2010; slightly amused

LORD OF BOOTY posted:

What's a better dagger ego for a SpEn who just cleared D:3, venom or electrocution? I've got +1 daggers of both, and I figure either's a big upgrade from my unbranded +1 dagger I started with.

Both. Venom and electrocution are the two best brands to find early on and useful against different enemies. Venom brand lets you kill enemies by kiting them, which is easy for a spriggan. Poke, walk away, poke, repeat. Eventually the poison stacks up enough that the foe just keels over. Useful against stuff you really don't want to be standing next to as much as possible, like an ogre.

Electrocution is really good when it works, but its RNG so sometimes you get no procs and it sucks. That doesn't happen often though, especially on a fast weapon like a short blade. Elec brand damage is a fixed amount so an electrocuting dagger will do the same damage from electrocution as a triple sword. So the faster the weapon, the more you benefit from the elec brand. Its especially potent early on as the fixed damage is enough to kill almost anything in the early dungeon in a single hit.

So you'd want to swap between the two. Use venom on chaff and anything you want to kite to death. Use elec on anything that resists venom. There's barely anything in the early dungeon that resists venom AND electrocution so between the two you shouldn't have many problems.

# ? Feb 11, 2017 00:48

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

Not sure how recent this change is but the max damage values on monster descriptions are really awesome, thank you crawl dev :shobon:

Lots of stupid fights were avoided, seems especially useful early game.

# ? Feb 11, 2017 01:23

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

oh ps wrt nemelex: don't use decks of escape earlygame, use stack 5 on them later to get tomb+elixir cards. then whenever you get in a scary situation, use tomb card to lock yourself behind temporary walls for a bit and then use elixir card so you will have your HP restored when you come back out

# ? Feb 11, 2017 02:23

Kaedric: Sep 5, 2000

Decided to switch over to trunk to try all the new things out. As a heads up, the potions of mutation are still marked as.. purple? I would kind of consider them a 'positive' potion right now so just a heads up (your opinion may differ).

# ? Feb 11, 2017 04:10

Darox: Nov 10, 2012

Purple is 'useful but may potentially screw you' so it still fits with mutation potions.

Scrolls of silence should probably be purple. e: Berserk too.

Darox fucked around with this message at 04:17 on Feb 11, 2017

# ? Feb 11, 2017 04:14

Kaedric: Sep 5, 2000

Speaking of mutation potions, this last one gave me poison gas breath, innate blink, pointy fingernails and +AC as a Naga. I'm pretty much gonna leave alllll that on thank you very much.

SUPEREDIT: Oh my godddd poison gas breath is soooooo gooooooood

Kaedric fucked around with this message at 04:46 on Feb 11, 2017

# ? Feb 11, 2017 04:31

Panic! at Nabisco: Jun 6, 2007; it seemed like a good idea at the time

I really like the new mut potions a lot. I still think something needs to be done about malmut in extended/zot, but it's not a big problem in the core 3-rune game, and the new potions are really fun and let you play with more mutations than the 1-2 benemuts you'd get in a normal game.

# ? Feb 11, 2017 04:35

Thug Lessons: Dec 14, 2006; I lust in my heart for as many dead refugees as possible.

LORD OF BOOTY posted:

What's a better dagger ego for a SpEn who just cleared D:3, venom or electrocution? I've got +1 daggers of both, and I figure either's a big upgrade from my unbranded +1 dagger I started with.

e: nevermind, fatfingered around Prince Ribbit and lost the character.

Overall, elec is much better because it does more damage. However especially that early venom still has advantages, namely that its effect triggers more and continues to damage enemies while you retreat. If I'm playing a character that uses short blades and I'm lucky enough to find both early, I usually put elec on a and venom on b and use ' to swap between them as the situation dictates.

# ? Feb 11, 2017 04:54

Carados: Jan 28, 2009; We're a couple, when our bodies double.

On a SpEn you're gonna be using that elec dagger until you find a quickblade of pain or elec, it's even good enough to close out the game on.

I don't like venom if you have a better choice on a Spriggan because the threats that are vulnerable to poison that aren't going to outright kill you can be put to sleep and stabbed (or kited with needles)

# ? Feb 11, 2017 05:59

logger: Jun 28, 2008; ...and in what manner the Ancyent Marinere came back to his own Country.; Soiled Meat

Kaedric posted:

Speaking of mutation potions, this last one gave me poison gas breath, innate blink, pointy fingernails and +AC as a Naga. I'm pretty much gonna leave alllll that on thank you very much.

SUPEREDIT: Oh my godddd poison gas breath is soooooo gooooooood

If you can get the Ignite Poison spell get it castable ASAP.

# ? Feb 11, 2017 07:02

Kaedric: Sep 5, 2000

I died cause a tele put me next to snorg with 10hp

I think nagas are ruined for me now though.. how can I play without poison gas spit again? how?

# ? Feb 11, 2017 07:14

goatsestretchgoals: Jun 4, 2011

D1:
Oops, that ring feels deathly cold.
j - a cursed ring of poison resistance (left hand)

# ? Feb 11, 2017 08:12

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

goatsestretchgoals posted:

D1:
Oops, that ring feels deathly cold.
j - a cursed ring of poison resistance (left hand)

I usually take something like that as a sign that it's time to seriously consider Ashenzari.

# ? Feb 11, 2017 08:27

goatsestretchgoals: Jun 4, 2011

got splatted on d:3 for reasons:

-orc priests are dicks and you should try to move backward from them
-orc priests can find the most optimal path toward being able to smite your bitch rear end
-orc priests are dicks

# ? Feb 11, 2017 08:52

World Famous W: May 25, 2007; BAAAAAAAAAAAA

Slight bug. Potions of Beneficial Mutation and Cure Mutation are still on the 'Items not yet recognized' list in trunk after potion merger.

Kind of liking the new Mutation potions. Not got very far yet, lets see how I feel after Pan and Abyss.

World Famous W fucked around with this message at 12:23 on Feb 11, 2017

# ? Feb 11, 2017 11:55

Decrepus: May 21, 2008; In the end, his dominion did not touch a single poster.

Crawl .20: Home of Niggerkiller

# ? Feb 11, 2017 15:56

Ramc: May 4, 2008; Bringing your thread to a screeching halt, guaranteed.

Decrepus posted:

Crawl .20: Home of Niggerkiller

That is a pretty bad Crawl name yeah.

# ? Feb 11, 2017 16:04

Thug Lessons: Dec 14, 2006; I lust in my heart for as many dead refugees as possible.

There was a bit of drama a couple years back because some guy on CSZO was named "lolibanger" or something. Not sure if he got banned but he was definitely around for a long time, I watched him die on Slime:6 once, and IIRC it later came out he was an actual sex offender.

# ? Feb 11, 2017 16:45

Devlan Mud: Apr 10, 2006; I'll hear your stories when we come back, alright?

New mutation potion roulette is cool and good, although it has pretty removed any incentive I had not to immediately quaff-ID any potions I come across.

Assigning weighting to malmutate so that teleportits and zerkitis come up less often, or add some more negative mutations like -1 AC or resist or other trivial bullshit (like 80% of positive mutations), and giving Neqoxecs an excuse to malmutate less often and I'd be fairly satisfied with the mutation system and malmutate.

Definitely a step in the right direction, which is refreshing. It feels far less dangerous to actually eat the purple now, which is a good thing, since on most characters I have had previously with a good start I avoid mutations like crazy because of how horrible the bad ones can be.

# ? Feb 11, 2017 17:04

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

I haven't tried a hybrid character in forever; continued a SpAK from a while back but I'm kinda lost on what to get next. Any suggestions for what to train/learn to deal with depths and eventually Zot? I have a ton of books stashed away so I have almost everything.

http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/bananaken/bananaken.txt

code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.20-a0-633-gff4aa5c (webtiles) character file.

bananaken the Spry (Spriggan Abyssal Knight)       Turns: 81466, Time: 08:09:45

Health: 102/102    AC: 13    Str: 10    XL:     20   Next: 58%
Magic:  39/39      EV: 35    Int: 22    God:    Lugonu [******]
Gold:   1437       SH:  0    Dex: 19    Spells: 12/48 levels left

rFire  + + +      SeeInvis +    n - +2 dagger (drain)
rCold  + + .      Gourm    .    U - +3 robe of the Duke {rF++ Int+3}
rNeg   + . .      Faith    .    (shield restricted)
rPois  +          Spirit   .    S - -2 hat of the Alchemist {rElec rPois rF+ rC+ rN+ MR+ rMut rCorr}
rElec  +          Reflect  .    I - +2 cloak {MR+}
rCorr  +          Harm     .    (gloves unavailable)
rMut   +                        (boots unavailable)
MR     +++++                    (no amulet)
Stlth  ++++++....               z - +4 ring of slaying
Regen  0.3/turn                 B - +5 ring of protection

@: deflect missiles, very quick
A: unfitting armour, iridescent scales 1, see invisible, cold resistance 1,
herbivore 3, speed 3, slow metabolism 2, strong 1
}: 2/15 runes: serpentine, abyssal
a: Depart the Abyss, Bend Space, Banish, Corrupt, Enter the Abyss, Brand Weapon
With Distortion, Renounce Religion


You are on level 3 of the Vaults.
You worship Lugonu.
Lugonu is exalted by your worship.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 7 branches of the dungeon, and seen 38 of its levels.
You have visited the Abyss 2 times.
You have also visited: Labyrinth, Ice Cave and Volcano.

You have collected 4236 gold pieces.
You have spent 2799 gold pieces at shops.

   Skills:
 + Level 10.0 Fighting
 - Level 9.3 Short Blades
 - Level 7.2 Polearms
 - Level 3.0 Throwing
 + Level 18.2 Dodging
 + Level 15.8 Stealth
   Level 4.4 Shields
 - Level 14.8 Spellcasting
 - Level 7.3 Conjurations
 - Level 15.3 Hexes
 - Level 12.4 Charms
 - Level 6.1 Summonings
 - Level 9.5 Translocations
 - Level 5.4 Ice Magic
 - Level 7.9 Air Magic
 - Level 12.3 Invocations
 - Level 9.0 Evocations


You have 12 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Confuse               Hex            ######..     1%          3    None
b - Magic Dart            Conj           ####         1%          1    None
c - Dazzling Spray        Conj/Hex       ######       1%          3    None
d - Summon Mana Viper     Hex/Summ       ######..     1%          5    ###....
f - Summon Ice Beast      Ice/Summ       #####...     3%          4    None
g - Conjure Flame         Conj/Fire      ####....     2%          3    None
h - Apportation           Tloc           ######       1%          1    None
i - Deflect Missiles      Chrm/Air       ######....   12%         6    #####..
j - Summon Lightning Spi  Summ/Air       #####...     1%          4    None
k - Invisibility          Hex            ######..     1%          6    #####..

# ? Feb 11, 2017 19:58

Thug Lessons: Dec 14, 2006; I lust in my heart for as many dead refugees as possible.

Unless I'm missing something you haven't gotten your dagger to mindelay. Do that immediately. Then, assuming you have a decent polearm, (probably a demon trident), you want to start training that to mindelay so you'll be able to output sufficient damage in late game. If there's no demon trident you might opt for an eveningstar/demon whip or double sword/demon blade, but your xp is already spread extremely thin and you don't have a lot left to grab before the game starts throwing the book at you. If you're lucky enough to have found a lajatang that's your best non-polearm bet because you'll at least get some cross-training and the skill required for mindelay is low. Besides that, Fighting.

Also, I think going for DMsl was a mistake.

Thug Lessons fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Feb 11, 2017

# ? Feb 11, 2017 20:44

Darox: Nov 10, 2012

You're a spriggan of Lugonu. Acquire a quickblade and distortion brand it instead of fussing with weaker weapons. If you can't ?acquire it, go to elf. Relatedly you should learn silence but mana viper, invisibility and deflect missiles should make elf plenty safe by themselves. Remember that regular elves, blademasters, master archers and dancing weapons all cannot see invisible.

Aside from that just get the usual support spells as you find them (blink regeneration etc) and some more short blades skill.

e: You've apparently visited elf but you also visited shoals 4 without getting the rune so I have no idea if you did the hall of blades or end vault.

Darox fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Feb 11, 2017

# ? Feb 11, 2017 21:33

I Love You!: Dec 6, 2002

i don't really like niggerkiller very much no

# ? Feb 11, 2017 21:49

Internet Kraken: Apr 24, 2010; slightly amused

Change his name to grinderlover. We can all agree with that.

# ? Feb 11, 2017 22:05

ThermosAquaticus: Nov 9, 2013

You need a way to deal with high MR creatures that can see invisible. That includes the tougher dragons, the tougher giants, spriggans, orbs of fire, etc. I wouldn't go with the artefact demon trident, it's only +2, pain doesn't work on some of the things your current toolkit can't handle, and you have no necromancy skill.

The distortion quickblade is an option. Do you have malign gateway? You could get that running, but it does require an investment.

Don't go to V5. I don't know how well corruption works on Zot 5 - maybe other people have tried this?

# ? Feb 11, 2017 22:06

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

I'm on mobile but I raided Elf:3, just did a corrupt right inside the vault. Still need to find acquirement, I'll go for a quick blade of distortion once I find it.

I forgot to grab the Shoals rune lmao

E: I think I skipped a randart lajatang so I'll try that too. I have malign gateway on a book as well.

apple fucked around with this message at 23:06 on Feb 11, 2017

# ? Feb 11, 2017 22:49

Worthleast: Nov 25, 2012; Possibly the only speedboat jumps I've planned

Floorgod this game is just silly.

D6: +8 trident of freezing
Lair 3: gold dragon scales
Lair 4: Lear's hauberk
Lair 4: Maxwell's armor
Lair 5: Sword of Jihad

Orc shops have the bow of storms too.

And now warlock's mirror on vaults 3. This is absurd.

# ? Feb 11, 2017 23:03

Archenteron: Nov 3, 2006

I just finished a TrFi run with 4 runes that was carried almost entirely on the back of Uskayaw's *** piety paralysis ability.

I also Grand Finale'd the Lemaean Hydra :feelsgood:

# ? Feb 11, 2017 23:03

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# ? May 13, 2024 23:14

Panic! at Nabisco: Jun 6, 2007; it seemed like a good idea at the time

Any tips on getting a summoner off the ground? I don't think I've ever gotten post-lair with one except when it was some other kind of character who later branched into summoning.

# ? Feb 11, 2017 23:12

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