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Mordekai posted:Jesus christ. These lovely clickbait sites are really grasping, and at the same time playing right in to the hands of the trolls. This started with that crazy anti vegan guy showing up always drinking from a milk jug. Then he was confronted by some black guy telling him that the act of drinking milk in front of him was racist. Of course this was then adopted by the other trolls there. And they keep doing it until media follows along, so now it is a new narrative that milk is racist, with this Jack IV guy using 4chan posts as a source in a ridiculous article about milk nazis. Buddy I've seen the White Lactase Tolerance theory floating around in alt right circles years ago. Long before this ever became a joke. There's always an unironic element underlying these trolls. I mean, what exactly do you think the end game of the trolls is here? Loving milk as an adult has never been cool.
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Feb 11, 2017 13:03
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People might not take /pol/ doxing seriously but let me say ICE has been doing a shitton of weird raids lately here in fl. ah here we go https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...efe5_story.html im going to tell the government on you on the internet has to be about the saddest most cowardly bullshit.
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Feb 11, 2017 13:23
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A thing with alt-right 'trolls' is that their detached, semi-ironic nature makes anyone who argues with them look like squares who are taking things too seriously. While these tactics are unlikely to change the mind of the person they are arguing with, it leads to onlookers of the argument being more likely to be on the side of the troll.
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Feb 11, 2017 13:42
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SpaceGoku posted:in the specific example of milo complaining about being told to gently caress off it goes something like: everyone has the right to free speech, so when a leftist shuts down my right to advocate for genocide, they're violating MY rights and that makes THEM the real fascist I recommend you try to engage with what your opponents are actually saying, rather than a ludicrous caricature. Milo is not advocating genocide, and you're undermining your own arguments every time you try to paint him as Literally Hitler. The issue is shutting down opposing opinions through violence, which is what happened at Berkeley. They're wrong to call it fascist behaviour, of course, because fascism doesn't have a monopoly on political violence.
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Feb 11, 2017 16:18
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Plucky Brit posted:I recommend you try to engage with what your opponents are actually saying, rather than a ludicrous caricature. Milo is not advocating genocide, and you're undermining your own arguments every time you try to paint him as Literally Hitler. I recommend you worry about how your dipshit island nation is gonna run an economy off cookie exports after you quit europe instead of telling americans how to save the world from fascism since ya'll won't be able to rub two shillings together to fund any attempts to do so
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Feb 11, 2017 16:22
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Montasque posted:
This is just part of their retarded bullshit where they accuse each other of being Jews constantly. All forums are overwhelmingly white and male but they're definitely one of the whitest and malest.
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Feb 11, 2017 16:36
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SpaceGoku posted:I recommend you worry about how your dipshit island nation is gonna run an economy off cookie exports after you quit europe instead of telling americans how to save the world from fascism since ya'll won't be able to rub two shillings together to fund any attempts to do so 
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Feb 11, 2017 16:57
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SpaceGoku posted:I recommend you worry about how your dipshit island nation is gonna run an economy off cookie exports after you quit europe instead of telling americans how to save the world from fascism since ya'll won't be able to rub two shillings together to fund any attempts to do so By all means, learn nothing from the last election. I'm sure more of the same tactics won't backfire catastrophically. Have fun pepper spraying women wearing ironic caps; that's sure to change people's minds. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 11, 2017 17:10
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Plucky Brit posted:By all means, learn nothing from the last election. I'm sure more of the same tactics won't backfire catastrophically. Have fun pepper spraying women wearing ironic caps; that's sure to change people's minds. "wow so much for the tolerant left"
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Feb 11, 2017 17:11
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This thread is ridiculous and SpaceGoku is making me take this idiot's side. Not one single post as evidence of Milo being a fascist, a white supremacist or anything of the like. Some internet famous douchebag out here trolling for dollars but for some reason, people just aren't getting hysterical enough about the eminent total victory of the fourth reich. and i must meme posted:A thing with alt-right 'trolls' is that their detached, semi-ironic nature makes anyone who argues with them look like squares who are taking things too seriously. While these tactics are unlikely to change the mind of the person they are arguing with, it leads to onlookers of the argument being more likely to be on the side of the troll. So what the gently caress does ranting like a lunatic about death camps and genocide look like to people? Which side does that make you more likely to take?
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Feb 11, 2017 17:56
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breaklaw posted:This thread is ridiculous and SpaceGoku is making me take this idiot's side. I am happy to help you come out as a proud fascist you idiot bitch
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Feb 11, 2017 18:03
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breaklaw posted:Not one single post as evidence of Milo being a fascist, a white supremacist or anything of the like. well I guess if he's not personally a literal fascist he's a good person and smart, and should keep on keeping on breaklaw posted:So what the gently caress does ranting like a lunatic about death camps and genocide look like to people? Which side does that make you more likely to take? middle america is reading something awful and being alienated!!!!
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Feb 11, 2017 18:06
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breaklaw posted:This thread is ridiculous and SpaceGoku is making me take this idiot's side. Not one single post as evidence of Milo being a fascist, a white supremacist or anything of the like. Some internet famous douchebag out here trolling for dollars but for some reason, people just aren't getting hysterical enough about the eminent total victory of the fourth reich. realpost though maybe you shouldn't choose your ideological allegiances based on someone's bad posts in the politics shitposting forum of dead-and-gay internet comedy forum somethingawful.com go out and read some of the poo poo milo wrote of his own volition and see the arguments he himself is making, because yeah no poo poo they aren't "haha kill all non-whites" but they sure as poo poo are drat similar to actual beliefs that fascist regimes have held like how he wants the gays to get back into the closet under threat of violence and what not and yeah maybe he's just "trolling" or whatever, but if you make the argument in the public sphere to the point that it is inciting harassment against real life actual human beings, maybe you shouldn't be able to claim to be "just trolling" anymore okay realpost over
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Feb 11, 2017 18:09
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also, non-consensual sex is bad.
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Feb 11, 2017 18:12
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Anime Schoolgirl posted:also, non-consensual sex is bad. look at this guy who thinks the concept of rape isn't a feminist conspiracy.
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Feb 11, 2017 18:19
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wizard on a water slide posted:look at this guy who thinks the concept of rape isn't a feminist conspiracy. 
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Feb 11, 2017 18:31
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Raus
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Feb 11, 2017 18:33
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his last two posts are actually counterfeits
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Feb 11, 2017 18:36
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Anime Schoolgirl posted:his last two posts are actually counterfeits I like your power armor.
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Feb 11, 2017 18:45
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breaklaw posted:This thread is ridiculous and SpaceGoku is making me take this idiot's side. Not one single post as evidence of Milo being a fascist, a white supremacist or anything of the like. Some internet famous douchebag out here trolling for dollars but for some reason, people just aren't getting hysterical enough about the eminent total victory of the fourth reich. quote:frankly i have always found the shock around the term "alt-right" and it's members to be a bit uh, odd. People keep saying that it's a politically-correct term for fascism and white nationalism when the NON-"alt" american right as symbolized by the good ol gipper and other supposedly relatively cuddly teddy bears uh did a pretty bang up job repping fascism and white nationalism just as hard. Maybe with an extra wink or smile or two, but not much more than that.
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Feb 11, 2017 18:46
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breaklaw posted:This thread is ridiculous and SpaceGoku is making me take this idiot's side. Not one single post as evidence of Milo being a fascist, a white supremacist or anything of the like. Some internet famous douchebag out here trolling for dollars but for some reason, people just aren't getting hysterical enough about the eminent total victory of the fourth reich. https://twitter.com/MikePrysner/status/828693135937114112 Here's Ben Shapiro on Milo and the alt-right: quote:Yeah, they’re not good people[The Alt-Right], I think that’s fair to say. Those people have been given this new intellectual veneer by folks like Milo Yiannopoulos. Milo wrote this piece called “An Establishment Conservative’s Guide to the Alt-Right.” It was given heavy play over Breitbart, and that piece basically made the case that these are just intellectuals who have made common cause of folks like paleo-conservatives—Pat Buchanan and other folks of that ilk. http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/gist/2016/11/ben_shapiro_on_steve_bannon_the_alt_right_and_why_the_left_needs_to_turn.html Gavin McInnes has started a little club called The Proud Boys. What are the Proud Boys about? “Our motto is that, we’re Western Chauvinists who refuse to apologize for creating the modern world,” he said matter-of-factly. “That’s really the only tenet.” http://bedfordandbowery.com/2016/07/gavin-mcinnes-and-his-proud-boys-want-to-make-white-men-great-again/ While I don't believe Gavin or Milo are Neo-Nazis, they have been playing footsie with Nazi and Fascist imagery, while promoting Western chauvinism to kids. They are bad hombres.
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Feb 11, 2017 19:38
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Also ironic or not, alt-right or not, nazi or not... the entire right, and especially the young voices on the right, are all promoting Islamophobia. It's the one thing they can all agree on.
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Feb 11, 2017 19:42
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Montasque posted:Also ironic or not, alt-right or not, nazi or not... the entire right, and especially the young voices on the right, are all promoting Islamophobia. Naw, there's a couple others they agree on, like transphobia and the idea that public education is now leftist radicalization Figuring out how to deal with the latter is actually interesting, because right-wing anger feels like an unavoidable consequence of teaching bias-laden subjects like history and sociology from perspectives other than a midcentury white American male one, but if you want to actually teach them accurately and fairly you have to do that And come to think of it, the transphobia of the young/alt right is mostly a result of that theory of education Baku has issued a correction as of 21:15 on Feb 11, 2017 |
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Feb 11, 2017 21:01
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did the people who are clutching their pearls re: milo being run off skip the multiple posts about him harassing students and planning to continue harassing students at berkley, or what because like yes he might not be goose stepping on stage and making out with a dude dressed like hitler, but lol if you think that the college or its students should have been okay with letting him try to gently caress up student lives with his totally chill ironic shitposting about identifying immigrant students and harassing trans ones about their appearance.
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Feb 11, 2017 21:10
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There isn't any real engaging with "what they actually say," because what they're actually saying is that Trans people are freaks who should be harassed into gender conformity, that campus rape is a myth, that groping doesn't count as sexual assault, that Black Lives Matter is the same as the KKK, or that everything great about Western Civilization was invented by white people - it's all horseshit. There's no engaging with it because it's blatantly false, and giving those lies legitimacy by arguing with them only gives them undeserved intellectual credit. It's sexist, racist, white supremacy.
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Feb 11, 2017 21:16
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Plucky Brit posted:By all means, learn nothing from the last election. I'm sure more of the same tactics won't backfire catastrophically. Have fun pepper spraying women wearing ironic caps; that's sure to change people's minds. whoa piers morgan has a forums account
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Feb 11, 2017 21:30
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what is with all these sanctimonious inbreds with cleft foreheads coming over here from Paedophile Island to lecture people about how "hwell hactually outing LGBTQ members of a student body is insanely valuable discourse"
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Feb 11, 2017 21:35
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wizard on a water slide posted:
I think this is more the result of toxic masculinity resisting attempts to replace it as the dominant social force in common culture, and what we're seeing among the younger members of the alt-right (wrt transphobia/homophobia/misogyny etc) is the reaction when young males (esp white) come of age in a world that is simultaneously expectant that they are to behave in a certain mode of masculinity while also replacing that style of masculinity with a more egalitarian option (admittedly there's a lot of work to do on this, especially now) alt-right intellectuals and media figures had a message that was especially effective at appealing to some of the generation of young men who are coming of age in this period of transition between one social paradigm and another of course, the alt-right movement is such a complex and difficult to analyze movement that this is like, the most basic idiot bitch assessment anyone has ever come up with I'm sure, but you know
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Feb 11, 2017 21:38
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paranoid randroid posted:whoa piers morgan has a forums account lmao goddammit why didn't I think of this
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Feb 11, 2017 21:38
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and i must meme posted:A thing with alt-right 'trolls' is that their detached, semi-ironic nature makes anyone who argues with them look like squares who are taking things too seriously. While these tactics are unlikely to change the mind of the person they are arguing with, it leads to onlookers of the argument being more likely to be on the side of the troll. I'm just gonna keep posting this Sartre quote (from 1944!!) because he called this poo poo perfectly back then and we should all memorize this: quote:Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play.
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Feb 11, 2017 21:42
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paranoid randroid posted:what is with all these sanctimonious inbreds with cleft foreheads coming over here from Paedophile Island to lecture people about how "hwell hactually outing LGBTQ members of a student body is insanely valuable discourse" dude dont knock on pet island. that aint cool.
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Feb 11, 2017 22:25
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cumshitter posted:i get that it's masculinity signalling but having six tobacco pipes on your desk is like trying to impress people by smoking five cigarettes at once. like i own a pipe i got from my dead grandpa and ive never used it but like im pretty sure i dont need to have five extra pipes to get the full tobacco experience If someone really likes smoking a pipe you will have several. The tobacco will "flavor" a pipe so you don't want to be smoking different tobaccos in the same pipe and mess that up. I only have one pipe because I only smoke one particular flavor of tobacco. Montasque posted:Also ironic or not, alt-right or not, nazi or not... the entire right, and especially the young voices on the right, are all promoting Islamophobia. I don't know why. All the muslim dominated cultures in the world are bastions of awesomeness. I hope the left embraces everything about it even more.  Look at that power. That FREEDOM. Just look at it. 
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Feb 11, 2017 23:19
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spacetoaster posted:I don't know why. All the muslim dominated cultures in the world are bastions of awesomeness. I hope the left embraces everything about it even more. bitch you couldn't even tell me what the most populous muslim country is without googling, gently caress outta here
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Feb 11, 2017 23:22
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cant you understand the difference between nazis and ironic nazis??? youre making me agree with nazis (ironically)!! excuse me i have to go polish my shelf skulls
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Feb 11, 2017 23:37
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Montasque posted:While I don't believe Gavin or Milo are Neo-Nazis, they have been playing footsie with Nazi and Fascist imagery, while promoting Western chauvinism to kids. It's really a kind of academic distinction and I don't care to litigate it. But I see fascism as a revolutionary, totalitarian form of extreme right-wing nationalism. Heimbach and the Traditional Workers Party -- they are fascists. But there are also plenty of regimes in history which are illiberal, racist, authoritarian and generally bad news that are not fascist ... and some of them even incorporated fascistic elements when they found it opportune. Franco's Spain is an example. With guys like Milo and Gavin, you can see them adapt to fit the power structure. I can easily see them radicalizing further into outright fascism, but they are also happy to play with ambiguity and proto-fascism in the service of a right-wing but non-fascist cause. There's another term I've heard which is "Apartheid Liberal" which I think is interesting. There's little-l liberalism and a relative degree of personal freedoms that are left untouched, but it's combined with a repressive police state, racism, anti-immigrant crackdowns etc. But it lacks the coordination of society to build a "new man," mandatory athleticism and military conscription for all males, Strength Through Joy programs and all that -- which is hard to imagine in 21st century America. BrutalistMcDonalds has issued a correction as of 00:59 on Feb 12, 2017 |
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Feb 12, 2017 00:32
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the black husserl posted:bitch you couldn't even tell me what the most populous muslim country is without googling, gently caress outta here What does that have to do with anything? Bitch.
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Feb 12, 2017 00:37
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So, what's interesting about Milo is that you can watch him try on different outfits over this life. Maybe it's because I can see myself in Milo a little bit, but he tries on different identities. Here's him playing with fascism, at another time he was trying out this stuffy conservative Catholic role, another time as a "tech" commentator, and this idea of playing roles (really, drag) is important to understanding what he does now. Richard Spencer, for instance, is too toxic and doesn't get invited around much. Yiannopolous, however, will dance with the far right, but his drag persona is disarming for his largely conservative and moderate audience. And he'll literally dress in drag. He plays a character that says things that are farther to the right than (I suspect) a literal speaker could get away with and still get invited by college Republican groups and so on. He will call a black person an "ape," but he sleeps with black men so he can't be a racist, you see. "And if you can't see the distinction, then you're the problem. You're just too sensitive, and I'm so harmless and gay and innocent... You know I don't really mean it." "Except I do." That's subversion and that's drag performance.
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Feb 12, 2017 00:58
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Now here's the problem with his  free speech defense. If you insult someone, call them an "ape" or a similarly dehumanizing term, and then when they become angry, you mock them for being angry, "little precious / snowflakes" and so on, that is humiliating. You will feel devalued as a person if someone does that to you.If the target is a censorious student, I can understand why someone would want to take the student down a peg -- and take their power to censor away. And I can see why conservative college students respond to Yiannopolous so much. I think that's why Milo attracts such intense rage, too. He's a drag performer, right? He's immune to insult. If you fire back, he will just mock and degrade you further. His fans think they can get away with calling a gay person a human being because they love Milo, thus they can't be homophobes. But you can only do this for so long before people react. You can ignore it, which is wiser, but human beings are animals and at a certain point they will punch you in the nose if you keep on humiliating them. If you call someone a human being, you're probably asking for a punch. So I think the violent reaction is a way of saying "yes, you're right, we are censorious -- and you will dare not mock us."
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Feb 12, 2017 01:05
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wizard on a water slide posted:middle america is reading something awful and being alienated!!!! SpaceGoku posted:realpost though maybe you shouldn't choose your ideological allegiances based on someone's bad posts in the politics shitposting forum of dead-and-gay internet comedy forum somethingawful.com If it was only SA and the like it would be fine. But right now almost all of the liberal news sites and commentators are using this kind of dishonest, inflammatory language about anyone they see as dwelling outside of their comfort zone of 2017 Progressivism. Nazis, Nazis, Nazis!!! Everywhere you turn, out jumps another Nazi!! There's probably a Nazi in your home sitting next you on the couch right now!! Sever!! This may be entertaining to internet leftys who like to write hyperbolic tweets and fantasize about bashing the fash, but it seriously dents the credibility of the countering message. Not conducive at a time when democrats should be looking to cultivate a broader anti-Trump movement, one many times larger than their progressive base. SpaceGoku posted:go out and read some of the poo poo milo wrote of his own volition and see the arguments he himself is making, because yeah no poo poo they aren't "haha kill all non-whites" but they sure as poo poo are drat similar to actual beliefs that fascist regimes have held like how he wants the gays to get back into the closet under threat of violence and what not I've read some of it. From what I can find this guy isn't much more than an anti-feminist and an attention whore. He's a shock jock. He does whatever he thinks will provoke the biggest emotional response. He's trying to become the gay boy version of Ann Coulter and you dumbasses are helping him. If you know of some Milo white supremacy or genocide quotes, please link them, but this bullshit about "well, he's right-wing, and all right-wingers are basically burgeoning facsists anyway" is a non-starter for anyone attempting to address this situation in a serious and rational manner. SpaceGoku posted:and yeah maybe he's just "trolling" or whatever, but if you make the argument in the public sphere to the point that it is inciting harassment against real life actual human beings, maybe you shouldn't be able to claim to be "just trolling" anymore Pener Kropoopkin posted:There isn't any real engaging with "what they actually say," because what they're actually saying is that Trans people are freaks who should be harassed into gender conformity, that campus rape is a myth, that groping doesn't count as sexual assault, that Black Lives Matter is the same as the KKK, or that everything great about Western Civilization was invented by white people - it's all horseshit. There's no engaging with it because it's blatantly false, and giving those lies legitimacy by arguing with them only gives them undeserved intellectual credit. SpaceGoku posted:I think this is more the result of toxic masculinity resisting attempts to replace it as the dominant social force in common culture, and what we're seeing among the younger members of the alt-right (wrt transphobia/homophobia/misogyny etc) is the reaction when young males (esp white) come of age in a world that is simultaneously expectant that they are to behave in a certain mode of masculinity while also replacing that style of masculinity with a more egalitarian option (admittedly there's a lot of work to do on this, especially now) And while I'm sure it would be a lot easier for you guys if everyone would just thoughtlessly consume and regurgitate this kind of inane drivel that, you seem to believe, everyone should just like, *know* already by now, unfortunately for you that's not the way we do things in a free society that values a free exchange of ideas and that recognizes individual civil rights. The idea that anyone, a public university administrator or anyone, can just unilaterally declare ideas they don't like to be "hate speech" and "fascism" and then proceed to censor or silence these ideas through violence, or even through bureaucratic means is unamerican and unconstitutional in every way. We don't arbitrarily ignore or invalidate the rights of racists, radicals, rabble-rousers or anyone else. You should go find yourselves a country with a vangaurd party if you want to live like that. I think the next for years are going to be a long rude awakening for bubble dwelling libs who seem to have convinced themselves that just because Obama was elected twice, and people give less of a poo poo about gays now that all of their evidence-free, irrational, social justice dogmas have somehow been carved into stone as the law of the land. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 12, 2017 01:11
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The real problem with the free speech defense is that it doesn't account for the "fighting words" exception. If you engage in speech that's threatening to an individual or a group, and they react with violence then it's in their natural right to do so. There are legal limits for this, obviously. Anonymous rioters will still be prosecuted, and if somebody punched Milo they could still be charged with assault - but rhetorically it doesn't hold up at all. The Far Right thinks of free speech as a shield which liberates themselves from consequence while everyone else has to deal with the implications of their politics. But reality don't work that way.breaklaw posted:And while I'm sure it would be a lot easier for you guys if everyone would just thoughtlessly consume and regurgitate this kind of inane drivel that, you seem to believe, everyone should just like, *know* already by now, unfortunately for you that's not the way we do things in a free society that values a free exchange of ideas and that recognizes individual civil rights. Shut the gently caress up, moron. This has nothing to do with their civil rights. Their politics express an explicit desire to deny other people their civil rights by the state. Pener Kropoopkin has issued a correction as of 01:17 on Feb 12, 2017 |
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Feb 12, 2017 01:14
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