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I like all of gaelio's suits. The schwalbe graze with the lance, kimaris, kimaris trooper, the vidar, and whatever upgrade it'll get in the end.
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Feb 13, 2017 03:30
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Ka0 posted:I like all of gaelio's suits. The schwalbe graze with the lance, kimaris, kimaris trooper, the vidar, and whatever upgrade it'll get in the end. There's a suit in the OP as yet unaccounted for, seems to be the right color to be a Vidar upgrade.
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Feb 13, 2017 03:33
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gaelio did slaughter a bunch of revolting workers. i would not trust his judgement
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Feb 13, 2017 04:41
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Phobophilia posted:gaelio did slaughter a bunch of revolting workers. i would not trust his judgement They were pretty well-armed, though. It wasn't a Dort-style pre-prepared slaughter. I'd place putting down that kind of rebellion as morally neutral.
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Feb 13, 2017 04:48
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Hey cool I was right about the robot eyes in the Vidar cockpit. But I was wrong about McGillis' AV status  Also given the reactions we got from a couple of different head honchos of Gjallarhorn once Bael came onto the scene, and some of the new info about the AV system's effects on people and how to counteract them, I wouldn't be surprised if it has some weirdness going on with it that McGillis isn't privy to/is underestimating. Could just be them going "what have you done, this is gonna cause a big stupid civil war," but it could also be "what have you done, we keep that poo poo locked in the pool room for a reason."
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Feb 13, 2017 05:20
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Darth Walrus posted:They were pretty well-armed, though. It wasn't a Dort-style pre-prepared slaughter. I'd place putting down that kind of rebellion as morally neutral. And watching again, he went to the side of the cockpit for most of the killshots, not dead center. We even saw surrendering survivors. He killed people, but he clearly didn't kill everyone.
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Feb 13, 2017 05:49
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chiasaur11 posted:And watching again, he went to the side of the cockpit for most of the killshots, not dead center. We even saw surrendering survivors. Actually he did not even aim for the cockpit in most parts just taking out the camera.
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Feb 13, 2017 05:59
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MonsterEnvy posted:Actually he did not even aim for the cockpit in most parts just taking out the camera. Hexa frames have the cockpit in the head.
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Feb 13, 2017 06:33
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Darth Walrus posted:They were pretty well-armed, though. It wasn't a Dort-style pre-prepared slaughter. I'd place putting down that kind of rebellion as morally neutral. Putting down an uprising against an unjust system is not morally neutral
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Feb 13, 2017 06:36
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Guy Goodbody posted:Putting down an uprising against an unjust system is not morally neutral Last I checked yeah it kind of is. Gjallerhorns whole thing is keeping order. So rebels are supposed to be put knocked down. Argas posted:Hexa frames have the cockpit in the head. Well that seems like a bad design.
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Feb 13, 2017 06:52
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MonsterEnvy posted:Last I checked yeah it kind of is. Gjallerhorns whole thing is keeping order. So rebels are supposed to be put knocked down. Where did you check?
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Feb 13, 2017 06:54
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Guy Goodbody posted:Where did you check? The only person who will come out of this completely clean is Kudelia. But we can't just throw away people like Gaelio and Rustal just because they're a little lovely, but not as bad as some of the other characters that have been shown. Something that could have kept Kudelia in the narrative more would have been making the story more about taking things further from the end of the first season. If I remember, all Kudelia did with her speech then was get a better price for Martian imports. If the story was not stating that only one group can be in power, the second season could have been about getting total independence for Mars. The end would have Makanai and other economic bloc leaders gaining more legislative control of Earth, and Gjallhorn withdrawing its range and ceding powers to become the military force of Earth and the moon. Kudelia and a few others would do the same on Mars, and Tekkadan could be modified to be the start of the Martian military. We could even have McMurdo out at Jupiter wondering if he should legitimize Teiwaz to become the same out there. As it stands, I think that'll be touched on in the last episode. After the dust settles, the survivors will realize that's what they should have done from the start.
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Feb 13, 2017 07:20
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Psycho Landlord posted:Hey cool I was right about the robot eyes in the Vidar cockpit. I cant help but wonder after reading this if the endgame is going to be McGillis getting more than he bargained for with Agnika themself possessing McGillis through the AV system.
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Feb 13, 2017 07:26
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MonsterEnvy posted:Last I checked yeah it kind of is. Gjallerhorns whole thing is keeping order. So rebels are supposed to be put knocked down. Guy Goodbody posted:Where did you check? It's what's been normal in the IBO-verse. Obviously the audience can see how brutal and heavy-handed it is. The rebels resort to violence because they have no cards in play. The one time it backfired on Gjallarhorn and the economic blocs was because Tekkadan got a film crew to show it, followed by Kudelia's speech. And even then, a lot of people died. You can bet that Gjallarhorn didn't really change its mind on things at all. Under Rustal, the Arianrhod fleet might not be as proactive as it was in season 1 but they sure aren't going to let the rebels disturb the status quo in any way. Rustal seems more reasonable than McGillis right now but he's a preserver at heart. If Gjallarhorn is intact enough for reforms afterwards, it'll be because they've been forced to confront the ugly deeds. Hell, I can't see Iok getting off scot-free even if he plays a key role in putting down the coup because his actions gave a ton of legitimate justification to the coup. Rustal engineering a war was bad enough but Iok broke Gjallarhorn's own taboos. Neddy Seagoon posted:I cant help but wonder after reading this if the endgame is going to be McGillis getting more than he bargained for with Agnika themself possessing McGillis through the AV system. Maybe Bael's pristine status allowed it to retain Agnika's soul. Flauros was recovered intact but Shino shows no signs of anything weird. Barbatos missing its cockpit system probably means the soul of past pilots probably doesn't influence Barbatos and Mika much if at all. And Vidar's juryrigged system probably avoids Kimaris' past pilots from affecting things because he basically has Ein possessing him. It would be neat but it feels like a weird detail to bring up so late into the series.
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Feb 13, 2017 07:36
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It's very possible that if Gundams devouring their pilots is a thing it only happened to Agnika. Bael was locked away specifically while the other Gundams were either lost or being kept as keepsakes instead. Mika could very well but the first person crazy enough to keep driving themselves to the breaking point piloting a Gundam since then.
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Feb 13, 2017 07:41
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It's also worth taking note that the Bael is ASW-G-01 and the Barbatos is ASW-G-08, whereas apart from the Gusion being ASW-G-11 but was obviously heavily modified from its original form the other suits we've seen have all been 40+ so much later in the design process assuming all the suits weren't made at once.
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Feb 13, 2017 10:54
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Argas posted:It's what's been normal in the IBO-verse. I'm pretty sure neither Darth_Walrus nor MonsterEnvy are arguing that it's morally neutral in-universe, unless they both magically forgot that they're trying to argue about who the audience should be rooting for.
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Feb 13, 2017 11:08
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Guy Goodbody posted:Putting down an uprising against an unjust system is not morally neutral It is when we don't know why they rebelled. I mean, we've got more than enough evidence from McGillis and Nobliss that not all rebellions are moral, even against a regime like Gjallarhorn's. Without that context, it just becomes a fight, and it was a pretty fair one. Gaelio and Ein are just incredibly capable together.
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Feb 13, 2017 11:09
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I agree with McGillis this episode, Gaelio's a naive fucker who cares too much about honor and is himself escalating the situation by rallying around Rustal. Really do need more Kudelia scenes or people will forget that only one person is an actual hero here Then again, I can envision complaints that giant robot show keeps devoting screentime to the girl on the sidelines. f
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Feb 13, 2017 11:49
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booksnake posted:I agree with McGillis this episode, Gaelio's a naive fucker who cares too much about honor and is himself escalating the situation by rallying around Rustal. Really do need more Kudelia scenes or people will forget that only one person is an actual hero here Except this is the first time Gaelio stopped talking about honour and pride. He sacrificed his pride when he admitted he couldn't beat McGillis alone and plugged himself into Einborg. Gaelio is fighting for the human values and emotions McGillis regards as stupid and pointless. And besides, I'd say that people who launch a violent coup d'etat don't get to complain about their enemies escalating situations. Kudelia is our only hero but she hasn't done anything all season which is quite unfortunate.
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Feb 13, 2017 12:08
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Lestaki posted:Except this is the first time Gaelio stopped talking about honour and pride. He sacrificed his pride when he admitted he couldn't beat McGillis alone and plugged himself into Einborg. Gaelio is fighting for the human values and emotions McGillis regards as stupid and pointless. And besides, I'd say that people who launch a violent coup d'etat don't get to complain about their enemies escalating situations. At this point Kudelia's probably going to come out on top simply because she's the only major political player still alive by the end of it all.
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Feb 13, 2017 12:19
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booksnake posted:I agree with McGillis this episode, Gaelio's a naive fucker who cares too much about honor and is himself escalating the situation by rallying around Rustal. Really do need more Kudelia scenes or people will forget that only one person is an actual hero here Escalating. Escalating. McGillis Fareed just launched a military coup of the most powerful group in the solar system and you're accusing Gaelio of escalating? Like, that's Rustal's whole deal! Not escalating. Keeping things from flaring up, no matter the cost. Yes, Kudelia's the one person trying to fix the busted system for the right reasons, and I'm sure she's going to be the one bringing things in the right direction come the endgame, but she's a politician, and this situation has been rapidly moving out of her area of expertise and into the field of crazy people stealing giant murder robots, which is much harder to handle with soft pressure. This is the time for killers, and of the current set, Gaelio is the closest to being a good man with a righteous cause. For all the good it's liable to do him.
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Feb 13, 2017 12:20
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chiasaur11 posted:Escalating. So much for the tolerant left.
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Feb 13, 2017 12:27
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chiasaur11 posted:
Are we ignoring the time he sent one of his best agents to incite a war between two major powers in order to make his political opponent look bad? Or like, every time he let Iok do anything at all?
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Feb 13, 2017 17:37
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paragon1 posted:Are we ignoring the time he sent one of his best agents to incite a war between two major powers in order to make his political opponent look bad? There is a reason Iok is under house arrest. He just did not think Iok was as stupid as he is. Also it seems Rustal was right in wanting to bring down McGillis. Not that starting that kinda war was not a lovely thing.
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Feb 13, 2017 18:46
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IBO is genuinely (it seems) setting up a war between two sides where neither side is a very good choice. The current Gjallerhorn represents stagnation and the corruption of the status quo but their opponents are hosed up child soldiers who seem to have little idea about what to do beyond becoming the strongest top of the heap. Obviously Tekkadan is sympathetic but it's increasingly clear they're not really prepared for anything and "King of Mars" sounds increasingly like a fantasy Orga is clinging to, not an actual possible goal. Of the two McGillis winning is probably the worst outcome for the world in general but it's not a great situation all around. We can pretty comfortably say that McGillis' 'reformation' of Gjallerhorn isn't going to be a good thing but the idea of Gjallerhorn reformation is one which the show seems to be genuinely holding up as a possible positive outcome. That honestly doesn't leave a lot of people who can create a remotely positive change for the setting. Kudelia can (and will almost certainly be part of any positive change) but she can't do it alone. Gaelio isn't a morally perfect person but as it stands he is Gjallerhorn's only real chance for positive reformation based off his behavior, character arc and plot role. If not him then Gjallerhorn is basically completely hosed and it seems clear that for how godawful they are the setting isn't going to get better in the wake of a massive power vacuum. Of course it's entirely possible the show is just leading to a massive tragedy ending where everything is hosed and nothing good happens to anyone but that seems a bit grim even for IBO.
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Feb 13, 2017 18:57
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ImpAtom posted:IBO is genuinely (it seems) setting up a war between two sides where neither side is a very good choice. Possibly Gaelio himself won't be the one to lead a reformed Gjallerhorn, perhaps his will will be passed to Julietta or something. The subordinate he might save from Ein's fate, or drive to it again, and is likewise not an Earthling of breeding but a Spacenoid commoner, so this can illustrate Gaelio's worldview, as his apology to Mica did a bit. Her loyalty could be divided between Vidar/Gaelio and Rustal depending on what Rustal's game is ( and I might need to rewatch to get a better handle on it)
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Feb 13, 2017 19:40
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I'm predicting a timeskip at the end with an older Kudelia and Gaelio's sister announcing major reformations with some sort of message about how change takes time and enacting it through violence doesn't solve anything.
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Feb 13, 2017 22:00
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BizarroAzrael posted:Possibly Gaelio himself won't be the one to lead a reformed Gjallerhorn, perhaps his will will be passed to Julietta or something. The subordinate he might save from Ein's fate, or drive to it again, and is likewise not an Earthling of breeding but a Spacenoid commoner, so this can illustrate Gaelio's worldview, as his apology to Mica did a bit. Her loyalty could be divided between Vidar/Gaelio and Rustal depending on what Rustal's game is ( and I might need to rewatch to get a better handle on it) Gaelio dying and becoming a martyr does also seem pretty possible, though Julietta would certainly need more screen time with him for that to really work. (Not impossible.) Funniest outcome: Iok turns out to get the most massive redemption arc of all time.
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Feb 13, 2017 22:06
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The best ending would be McGillis attempting to drop a rock on earth for poorly defined reasons and Iok flying out of nowhere and sacrificing himself in a blazing green aura of honor and nobility to push the rock back into a stable orbit
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Feb 13, 2017 23:10
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Psycho Landlord posted:The best ending would be McGillis attempting to drop a rock on earth for poorly defined reasons and Iok flying out of nowhere and
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Feb 13, 2017 23:30
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Iok cowers and surrenders, but Mika comments out loud "Did you say something? Cause I didn't hear anything." *Smush*
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Feb 13, 2017 23:33
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I am very much in the thinking of Bael indeed BEING the founder of it all... and nuts, really nuts by now, and possibly knowing where the mobile armours lie buried. Takes over mcgillis and starts waking them up for "reasons."
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Feb 14, 2017 00:44
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AtomikKrab posted:I am very much in the thinking of Bael indeed BEING the founder of it all... and nuts, really nuts by now, and possibly knowing where the mobile armours lie buried. Takes over mcgillis and starts waking them up for "reasons." No, the mobile armors are fully-independent psychotic AI units and we can be fairly certain Agnika and co despised them. Besides, using something other than your own machine wouldn't be true strength  .
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Feb 14, 2017 01:43
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Psycho Landlord posted:The best ending would be McGillis attempting to drop a rock on earth for poorly defined reasons and Iok flying out of nowhere and sacrificing himself in a blazing green aura of honor and nobility to push the rock back into a stable orbit You are the hero this discussion needed!
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Feb 14, 2017 02:42
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The question now is how they tie this into the plot of whatever SRW game IBO ends up in. Hopefully the same one as the new Full Metal Panic, they would work well together.
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Feb 14, 2017 03:46
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IBO is probably gonna be a tough fit for SRW. It has a lot of the writing quirks that tend to be hard to work in well. Mika crippling himself to kill a mobile armor is the sort of plot beat that rarely works well in SRW unfortunately.
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Feb 14, 2017 03:51
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ImpAtom posted:IBO is probably gonna be a tough fit for SRW. It has a lot of the writing quirks that tend to be hard to work in well. Mika crippling himself to kill a mobile armor is the sort of plot beat that rarely works well in SRW unfortunately. You beat the mobile armor, its HP refills, Mika kills it in a cutscene fight, and then you can't use him for two or three stages. That even fits the show since multiple people fight the mobile armor it is just Mika who finally takes it down.
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Feb 14, 2017 04:00
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Ethiser posted:You beat the mobile armor, its HP refills, Mika kills it in a cutscene fight, and then you can't use him for two or three stages. That even fits the show since multiple people fight the mobile armor it is just Mika who finally takes it down. Oh, execution is easy, it just runs into the usual Zeoyrmer/Eva-01 problem of "why are we letting them do this again?" Which isn't plot-crippling by any means but usually means it needs their A-game writing to work.
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Feb 14, 2017 04:03
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IBO is dark, but you're seriously asking a franchise that had Ideon and fafnir if they can handle dark?
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Feb 14, 2017 04:05
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