Star Citizen: Death of a Space Thread?

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Blue On Blue: Nov 14, 2012

Quavers posted:

Reminder:

It always amazes me they can spend hundreds of man hours on pretty textures, but can't be assed to align the models hands with the control yoke

# ? Feb 13, 2017 02:41

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# ? May 15, 2024 02:51

Sillybones: Aug 10, 2013; go away,
spooky skeleton,
go away

Sounds reasonable in a mechanical sense of navigating a space. Does this apply to more goal oriented type behaviours such as knowing what to do when? It sounds more like an organisational structure of code than an AI solution.

Can the parts be rearranged? Reused?

It is a strange example to give, too. That sounds more like an RTS behaviour. Do they have NPC's 'exploring' where they have to navigate actual geometry? What purpose does that serve to players? Wouldn't it be better to use an abstraction instead?

Open Development. gently caress, if this were open development we could actually see some of these ideas details. And also the ideas that failed and were dropped. There is just as much value in knowing why something doesn't work out. I know more about the internals of GTAV than Star Citizen.

Edit:

The more I think about this the less it makes sense. Do they mean stacked layers or a tree? How do actors determine which lower level behaviours to implement and when? It implies that higher layers intimately know the lower layers; Given each layer is gathering sensor inputs that can be accessed from other layers. What about layers that share the same sensors? Does this information get pooled? Received more than once?

Can you usefully abstract a rational human like actor as a series of layers?

Thinking about it their system seems to be chains of if else's. Or worse, chains of inheritance. Then I would ask, should you not prefer composition instead? You can make modular and abstract behaviours without worrying about fitting it into a tier hierarchy.

Maybe this whole thing just describes a subset of their AI systems and not that actual base.

Sillybones fucked around with this message at 03:02 on Feb 13, 2017

# ? Feb 13, 2017 02:43

Samizdata: May 14, 2007

Colostomy Bag posted:

I'm half expecting the next leap in ransomware will involve paying to uninstall SC and get your internet connection back.

Even worse. It co-opts your connection for Ben's sex tape as he tries to launch a career as a reality star. On a more serious note, they could have just gone the Blizzard route and archered a torrent client for this stuff and it would work better and save them some bandwidth AEIOUc.

# ? Feb 13, 2017 02:46

Lime Tonics: Nov 7, 2015; by FactsAreUseless

# ? Feb 13, 2017 02:47

starkebn: May 18, 2004; "Oooh, got a little too serious. You okay there, little buddy?"

Subsumption is basically the pipe dream that the NPCs actions aren't going to be scripted, instead every NPC will decide what to do based on priorities and they will be smart enough to go off and live virtual lives.

Complete bullshit in other words.

# ? Feb 13, 2017 02:48

The Titanic: Sep 15, 2016; Unsinkable

Dementropy posted:

This made me :lol:

!

The guy really is a little nutty about Derek's pants occupants.

# ? Feb 13, 2017 03:01

Sillybones: Aug 10, 2013; go away,
spooky skeleton,
go away

starkebn posted:

Subsumption is basically the pipe dream that the NPCs actions aren't going to be scripted, instead every NPC will decide what to do based on priorities and they will be smart enough to go off and live virtual lives.

Complete bullshit in other words.

A layered approach doesn't imply that at all. Emergence is the opposite of such a strict approach. Do something like fuzzy logic if you want interesting and unique things to happen.

"instead every NPC will decide what to do"

Each individual NPC? All of them? In an MMO? Is... this game a scam?

# ? Feb 13, 2017 03:06

MeLKoR: Dec 23, 2004; by FactsAreUseless

Quavers posted:

Great post btw

I've been saying this since the first day they showed it, it mostly got ignored at time time because of the huge clusterfuck going on after the con. But in retrospect, yeah, it was surprisingly accurate how it turned out. Compare it to the clusterfuck that are the livestreams, that poo poo was filmed documentary stile. Why would they have filmed such a high production values apology in advance? None of it made any sense in any context that wasn't a premeditated cover-up for the failure to deliver. "They tried real hard and it was just a couple of days from being ready, surely it won't take them long :downs:

"

9 months later they still haven't showed anything. They had nothing at the time, it was all pure illusion. :golfclap:

MeLKoR fucked around with this message at 03:10 on Feb 13, 2017

# ? Feb 13, 2017 03:06

The Titanic: Sep 15, 2016; Unsinkable

Sappo569 posted:

It always amazes me they can spend hundreds of man hours on pretty textures, but can't be assed to align the models hands with the control yoke

Art is strong with them.

Programming not so much.

# ? Feb 13, 2017 03:07

Sillybones: Aug 10, 2013; go away,
spooky skeleton,
go away

Jobbo_Fett posted:

To put this in perspective.

Literally nobody else in the game's industry does this (that I know of)

My torrents programs have done that to me. And they have something to do with games. Ergo, checkmate. CIG wins.

# ? Feb 13, 2017 03:09

The Titanic: Sep 15, 2016; Unsinkable

MeLKoR posted:

I've been saying this since the first day they showed it, it mostly got ignored at time time because of the huge clusterfuck going on after the con. But in retrospect, yeah, it was surprisingly accurate how it turned out. Compare it to the clusterfuck that are the livestreams, that poo poo was filmed documentary stile. Why would they have filmed such a high production values apology in advance? None of it made any sense in any context that wasn't a premeditated cover-up for the failure to deliver. "They tried real hard and it was just a couple of days from being ready, surely it won't take them long "

9 months later they still haven't showed anything. They had nothing at the time, it was all pure illusion.

I think some of us came to that same conclusion at the time. It's always enjoyable to know "guess I called that right" and this would be one of those cases where I think it was called right.

They probably spent the last month building that video knowing that things would probably go south because of their lack of progress. I wouldn't be surprised if the build something like that for a few major "releases we're going to miss" type events. Though I would be surprised if they try that one any time soon. You can only do something like that once before it loses its magical band aid capability.

As for the patcher, it's just one item in a long list of items that would be a "do not ship" notice in a realistic project that actually has to meet basic expectations and performance capabilities. Chris Roberts is hugely out of his depth, and anybody who dares to claim CIG is only releasing quality products probably needs to just stop talking because their contributions are entirely false.

There's people who can still justify anything, but for CIG I think those numbers are starting to dwindle.

# ? Feb 13, 2017 03:17

Zzr: Oct 6, 2016

Sillybones posted:

Is... this game a scam?

HOW DARE YOU ?

# ? Feb 13, 2017 04:43

Kosumo: Apr 9, 2016

Sillybones posted:

....... Do something like ~~fuzzy logic~~ Fuzzy Modem if you want interesting and unique things to happen.

.....

Yeah, I think that Citizen, Fuzzy Modem is having plenty of interesting and unique things happen these days. I'm sure he is rapped that 2.6.1 has been release and the toilet can now be accessed. Some of his new 'friends' might be helping him theory craft ship to ship docking.

# ? Feb 13, 2017 05:14

Beer4TheBeerGod: Aug 23, 2004; Exciting Lemon

MeLKoR posted:

There are two things that stand out to me for the sheer chutzpah of it, the patcher and The Road to CItizenCon.

Patcher
How the gently caress does a company in 2017 dare to have a patcher that kills your internet connection while it slowly downloads another 30GB file because they changed the door to the toilet? HOW?

The Road to CItizenCon
Think about it... it's beyond all question now that they knew at the time there was no way the "Squadron 42 demo" was days away from release. If they had anything that close to being ready they'd have put it out to quiet the whales and give them a much needed confidence boost. Which means that the whole Road to CitizenCon was a ~*metacon *~ itself. It was all staged! There were no last hour meetings deciding they couldn't make it, there was never a question of it being ready! They probably filmed it all in a day.

It was pure
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRpmNgaJ41U

There were no last hour meetings. There were no last desperate allnighters. It was all a carefully staged guilt trip to cover the fact they had nothing to show despite what they had said was the motive they had skipped E3. It worked perfectly, it drove the whales into a white knighting frenzy and they opened their wallets wide. I actually have to congratulate Sandi on that, it was masterfully executed.

I wish that didn't make sense, but it does.

# ? Feb 13, 2017 05:34

Beer4TheBeerGod: Aug 23, 2004; Exciting Lemon

Mirificus posted:

https://twitter.com/BoredGamerUK/status/830443904919097344
https://twitter.com/MoonConsole/status/830828404651880448
https://twitter.com/BoredGamerUK/status/830835649284554753
https://twitter.com/TheRealGremlich/status/830846524133367808
https://twitter.com/iq_derek/status/830853689019662337
https://twitter.com/BoredGamerUK/status/830858613547814912

gently caress it, these assholes deserve to get scammed.

# ? Feb 13, 2017 05:36

alf_pogs: Feb 15, 2012

if he's boredgamer now i don't even know what his username will be after playing star citizen for more than ten seconds

# ? Feb 13, 2017 06:02

Fargin Icehole: Feb 19, 2011; Pet me.

I remember the guy did like a half hour speculation on the desert planet with the NOT-SANDWORM, and I just shut it off after 10 seconds.

These guys are in the literal sense, thriving on the speculation, and this game will not meet anyone's expectations.

# ? Feb 13, 2017 06:13

Jobbo_Fett: Mar 7, 2014; Slava Ukrayini; Clapping Larry

alf_pogs posted:

if he's boredgamer now i don't even know what his username will be after playing star citizen for more than ten seconds

He already plays Star Citizen, that's why he's bored :ssh:

# ? Feb 13, 2017 06:13

Mirificus: Oct 29, 2004; Kings need not raise their voices to be heard

peter gabriel posted:

Who was that dude who said Derek abused his daughter or something, was it screenshotted?

# ? Feb 13, 2017 06:18

Mirificus: Oct 29, 2004; Kings need not raise their voices to be heard

# ? Feb 13, 2017 06:31

Jobbo_Fett: Mar 7, 2014; Slava Ukrayini; Clapping Larry

"They claim your game is late, you present them with alternate facts

They laugh at Chris Roberts, you talk about Derek Smart

They call your game a scam, YOU TELL DEREK TO loving DIE IN A FIRE

That's the shitizen way!"

# ? Feb 13, 2017 06:43

Exinos: Mar 1, 2009; OSHA approved squiq

People like Gremlich and RedChris are legitimately terrible. I sincerely hope they continue to pledge, as much as they possibly can, and then they lose every loving cent to conman Crobberts.

# ? Feb 13, 2017 06:47

Saint Drogo: Dec 26, 2011

holy poo poo Derek is good at what he does

I mean it sucks that what he does is make internet crazies see red and sacrifice all pretence of decency and dignity on his altar, and not, like, making games. But he is loving good at it.

# ? Feb 13, 2017 07:06

Henry Scorpio: Mar 20, 2006; Maybe it just collapsed on its own?

Sillybones posted:

A layered approach doesn't imply that at all. Emergence is the opposite of such a strict approach. Do something like fuzzy logic if you want interesting and unique things to happen.

"instead every NPC will decide what to do"

Each individual NPC? All of them? In an MMO? Is... this game a scam?

I worked on FEAR's AI more than a decade ago, and the buzzword there would have been STRIPS... but the AI framework was just a piece of the whole. The meat of the system was actually from the LDs placing smart nodes all over telling the AIs "here is a sweet ambush point", good audio and barks letting you know the AI was thinking, levels laid out for memorable encounters.

Thinking about the server compute resources to do this in an MMO ... it should be interesting to see what they try.

# ? Feb 13, 2017 07:30

trucutru: Jul 9, 2003; by Fluffdaddy

Henry Scorpio posted:

I worked on FEAR's AI more than a decade ago, and the buzzword there would have been STRIPS... but the AI framework was just a piece of the whole. The meat of the system was actually from the LDs placing smart nodes all over telling the AIs "here is a sweet ambush point", good audio and barks letting you know the AI was thinking, levels laid out for memorable encounters.

Thinking about the server compute resources to do this in an MMO ... it should be interesting to see what they try.

Chris Roberts said here is a sweet ambush point.

Have the AI bark the audio that Chris Roberts approved.

Chris Roberts thinks this is laid out to be a memorable encounter.

# ? Feb 13, 2017 08:00

Mirificus: Oct 29, 2004; Kings need not raise their voices to be heard

March 2015

# ? Feb 13, 2017 08:00

Kosumo: Apr 9, 2016

Is one person waiting called a line?

# ? Feb 13, 2017 08:15

Exinos: Mar 1, 2009; OSHA approved squiq

Mirificus posted:

March 2015

Just waiting on the game to launch before putting the site online.

# ? Feb 13, 2017 08:44

intardnation: Feb 18, 2016; I'm going to space!

Mirificus posted:

March 2015

and the exodus for tor was very fast. I expect nothing less from sc. o it already happened.

# ? Feb 13, 2017 08:59

happyhippy: Feb 21, 2005; Playing games, watching movies, owning goons. 'sup; Pillbug

Henry Scorpio posted:

I worked on FEAR's AI more than a decade ago, and the buzzword there would have been STRIPS... but the AI framework was just a piece of the whole. The meat of the system was actually from the LDs placing smart nodes all over telling the AIs "here is a sweet ambush point", good audio and barks letting you know the AI was thinking, levels laid out for memorable encounters.

Thinking about the server compute resources to do this in an MMO ... it should be interesting to see what they try.

THANK YOU!
loving love FEAR.

# ? Feb 13, 2017 09:14

a cyberpunk goose: May 21, 2007

Henry Scorpio posted:

I worked on FEAR's AI more than a decade ago, and the buzzword there would have been STRIPS... but the AI framework was just a piece of the whole. The meat of the system was actually from the LDs placing smart nodes all over telling the AIs "here is a sweet ambush point", good audio and barks letting you know the AI was thinking, levels laid out for memorable encounters.

Thinking about the server compute resources to do this in an MMO ... it should be interesting to see what they try.

To this day I think the first FEAR has provided some of the best FPS human vs AI moments for me, thank you

# ? Feb 13, 2017 09:29