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It's also very hard to inspect what you can't see. If there were no stress fractures or anything to indicate that the foundation of the spillway has been compromised, there's not much you can do about it. I am all for being proven wrong by people that know more than me though
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Feb 13, 2017 20:58
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The concrete spillway had repairs performed on it in 2013 and at that time they state that they did not see anything else amiss. http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2017/02/10/maintenance-records-show-oroville-dam-spillway-previously-patched/
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Feb 13, 2017 21:12
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Decrepus posted:The comments suggest that it is the liberals and their global warming agenda which distracted everyone from the possibility of this happening. That's funny because state and fed officials were warned 12 years ago (when both the state and country had republican leaders) that the emergency spillway needed to be upgraded from plain dirt to concrete, but they ignored it. Guess who warned them? Some loving dumb idiot LIEberals.
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Feb 13, 2017 21:13
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Is this not just a case of them trying to hold too much in the reservoir (because of decade long drought) and then being caught off guard by a snap rainy season? Or was the loss of the main spillway for a few days actually the critical part?
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Feb 13, 2017 21:18
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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PittTheElder posted:Is this not just a case of them trying to hold too much in the reservoir (because of decade long drought) and then being caught off guard by a snap rainy season? Or was the loss of the main spillway for a few days actually the critical part? The loss of the main spillway was critical. It turns out to be a single point of failure because the emergency spillway is woefully inadequate (can’t withstand thirty hours of gentle use). Getting caught off-guard has nothing to do with it.
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Feb 13, 2017 21:23
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Are dams ever anything other than a disaster waiting to happen? People seem to love building the things, but actually maintaining them? gently caress that noise. It's kind of like when you get a pet hamster as a kid and it ends up eating it's own feet from starvation once the novelty wears off.
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Feb 13, 2017 21:24
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PittTheElder posted:Is this not just a case of them trying to hold too much in the reservoir (because of decade long drought) and then being caught off guard by a snap rainy season? Or was the loss of the main spillway for a few days actually the critical part? They were trying to spare the damage on the main spillway by using the emergency one, then that developed potential problems they weren't sure how to handle because they'd never used it before. So now the main spillway and generators are going full blast to get the lake level down to where they're not using the emergency spillway any more. They'll do a damage assessment and repair as necessary and possible. I think they've just accepted that the main spillway is going to be completely destroyed at this point. Once the rain is done they'll go to work rebuilding. For now they're surviving.
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Feb 13, 2017 21:25
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KM Scorchio posted:when you get a pet hamster as a kid and it ends up eating it's own feet from starvation once the novelty wears off. 
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Feb 13, 2017 21:26
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PittTheElder posted:Is this not just a case of them trying to hold too much in the reservoir (because of decade long drought) and then being caught off guard by a snap rainy season? Or was the loss of the main spillway for a few days actually the critical part? As far as i can tell, that's how it started, but then the integrity of the emergency spillway (which is just plain dirt after the concrete wall part) became threatened when all the water flowing over it blasted away too much dirt around the concrete wall, and caused the concrete to start to crack apart in one spot. So now there's a damaged main spillway (not as huge of a problem considering where the damage is), and a damaged back up spillway (a very huge problem, because the damaged part includes a wall that's holding back part of the reservoir). And if the backup spillway completely fails, the top 30 feet or whatever of the reservoir's water supply is gonna go shooting down the valley.
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Feb 13, 2017 21:26
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PittTheElder posted:Is this not just a case of them trying to hold too much in the reservoir (because of decade long drought) and then being caught off guard by a snap rainy season? Or was the loss of the main spillway for a few days actually the critical part? The reservoir holds what it holds, and the rest is supposed to be let out of the spillway so the dam doesn't overflow. This is a case of the water coming in too fast because of the heavy rains, and the spillway being damaged because of lack of maintenance and use over the last several years. If anything the problem is that they can't let the water out fast enough.
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Feb 13, 2017 21:29
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This event is actually a really good case study of how global warming will manifest as more extreme local variability, and how said variability threatens the established infrastructure in novel ways, in addition to aggregate temperature and sea level rise. But let's just plug our ears and shut down the EPA and NOAA.
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Feb 13, 2017 21:31
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I feel evil for saying it, but I'd love to see that 30' of water get dumped. It would suck for everyone in the way, but god drat would the video be amazing to watch.
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Feb 13, 2017 21:31
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Sagebrush posted:The reservoir holds what it holds, and the rest is supposed to be let out of the spillway so the dam doesn't overflow. This is a case of the water coming in too fast because of the heavy rains, and the spillway being damaged because of lack of maintenance and use over the last several years. If anything the problem is that they can't let the water out fast enough. Its very much not a case of over use in recent years considering the historic drought CA has been in
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Feb 13, 2017 21:35
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I said lack of maintenance and use, as in the spillway hasn't been maintained because it hasn't been in use. This is the first time the water has even reached the spillway since 2012 or something.
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Feb 13, 2017 21:40
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Decrepus posted:The comments suggest that it is the liberals and their global warming agenda which distracted everyone from the possibility of this happening. What was their reasoning for the fire in the Smokey Mountains?
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Feb 13, 2017 21:51
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coupbrick posted:What was their reasoning for the fire in the Smokey Mountains? Literal smokescreen for a Jade-Helm type manuever.
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Feb 13, 2017 22:03
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The Glumslinger posted:Yeah, that law got passed becuase assholes kept flying drones near forest fires and after one sucked a drone into its engine, they've been forced to ground planes anytime drones are sighted in the area That never happened. The majority of sightings near forest fires were totally uncorroborated, as are most aircraft "near misses" with drones.
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Feb 13, 2017 22:12
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“We should wait till someone actually dies before doing anything.” —The OSHA thread
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Feb 13, 2017 22:21
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What would you name the rule after then, hmm? Think of the historians.
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Feb 13, 2017 22:40
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 meanwhile, elsewhere  edit: https://twitter.com/RichGas69/status/831004504627613696 atomicthumbs fucked around with this message at 22:48 on Feb 13, 2017 |
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Feb 13, 2017 22:46
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MF_James posted:I feel evil for saying it, but I'd love to see that 30' of water get dumped. I'd frame it as, I'd like to see this go full property damage disaster to force your dumb gently caress government to invest in infrastructure and fund regulatory bodies. with the tiny added bonus of cool, Real TV style footage But, since you yanks keep electing republicans, the regulators gotta be cut to the bone and the infrastructure investments gotta takes the shape of a tax break for some unrelated businesses whose owners are buddies with this or that elected official. Alternatively, rename the reservoir "dirty Mexicans" and the dam "the border" and run tv commercials on fox news saying that dirty Mexicans are spilling over the border into
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Feb 13, 2017 22:54
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Rah! posted:That's funny because state and fed officials were warned 12 years ago (when both the state and country had republican leaders) that the emergency spillway needed to be upgraded from plain dirt to concrete, but they ignored it. Guess who warned them? Some loving dumb idiot LIEberals. Is there no limit to how low the LIEberals will sink just to make Republicans look bad?
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Feb 13, 2017 23:21
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I would say this isn't an issue of conservatives vs liberals, conservatives were warned 12 years ago, how many liberals have been in office since then? They could have easily done something during the time they were in office. The reality is, there's a "nothing has gone wrong, so let's assume things will be fine", so money gets funneled elsewhere no matter who is in office (someone's pocket)
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Feb 13, 2017 23:24
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Sagebrush posted:I said lack of maintenance and use, as in the spillway hasn't been maintained because it hasn't been in use. This is the first time the water has even reached the spillway since 2012 or something. As I noted earlier, repairs were made on the spillway in 2013, so I don't think lack of maintenance is an actual reason here.
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Feb 13, 2017 23:34
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MF_James posted:It's also very hard to inspect what you can't see. If there were no stress fractures or anything to indicate that the foundation of the spillway has been compromised, there's not much you can do about it. You might trot out penetrating RADAR to look for voids (and core movement), but you would be unlikely to do that unless you suspected something was amiss. Usually, you'd use a theodolite to check the run of the spillway (as well as the dam crest, wall and toe) to look for movement as part of a regular inspection (note: not the sum total of the inspection), and leave it at that until fracturing/spalling was observed. They missed an opportunity here to tell people that the saddle and emergency spillway was actually a fuse plug. A fuse plug is a part of a dam engineered to fail early to protect the main dam, typically (but not always) built into the crest of the spillway. I'll be interested if the repairs effected in 2013 included stitching between the spillway walls and floor.
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Feb 13, 2017 23:49
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IPCRESS posted:You might trot out penetrating RADAR to look for voids (and core movement), but you would be unlikely to do that unless you suspected something was amiss. Usually, you'd use a theodolite to check the run of the spillway (as well as the dam crest, wall and toe) to look for movement as part of a regular inspection (note: not the sum total of the inspection), and leave it at that until fracturing/spalling was observed. Yeah I figured GPR would be too much effort for them to expend. Also, depending on how thick the concrete is, you might not get anything useful from using GPR; I could be incorrect, but I believe it has a fairly limited distance (like 1.5m) through concrete.
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Feb 13, 2017 23:52
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Feb 14, 2017 00:03
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MF_James posted:I would say this isn't an issue of conservatives vs liberals, conservatives were warned 12 years ago, how many liberals have been in office since then? They could have easily done something during the time they were in office. The spillway was apparently reasonably well-inspected and had an unexpected failure. The emergency spillway is the issue. Various groups requested that the emergency spillway be upgraded from dirt to concrete during the Bush and Schwarzenegger administrations. The improvements were turned down specifically because of cost. Can you convince me that Obama/Brown also turned down similar requests? If you cannot, then the "both sides are bad" argument doesn't hold water. One side actively prevented a solution with lovely policy, the other you can maybe accuse of no being proactive enough in fixing republican mistakes and revisiting old issues.
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Feb 14, 2017 00:05
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The Wiggly Wizard posted:If you cannot, then the "both sides are bad" argument doesn't hold water. OOOOOOO SHIIIIIT
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Feb 14, 2017 00:14
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The Wiggly Wizard posted:Schwarzenegger administration Still amazed this is a serious term.
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Feb 14, 2017 00:14
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a Stallone administration would never have let things get this bad Who needs bitch helicopters to move some rocks around?
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Feb 14, 2017 00:19
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chitoryu12 posted:Still amazed this is a serious term. SO heres the funniest thing about the Governator. He's a republican because when he came to america in the 70s one of the first things he saw on TV was a speech by Nixon. That's why he's a republican, though he's pretty much a RINO at this point like so many others.
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Feb 14, 2017 00:27
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Ramadu posted:SO heres the funniest thing about the Governator. He's a republican because when he came to america in the 70s one of the first things he saw on TV was a speech by Nixon. That's why he's a republican, though he's pretty much a RINO at this point like so many others. eh he buys into their economic policies but not to the extent that others do
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Feb 14, 2017 00:30
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Nixon also created the EPA so he would be considered a god drat communist by today's standards.
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Feb 14, 2017 00:52
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Nurse Fanny posted:OOOOOOO SHIIIIIT Brace yourself for a flood of puns.
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Feb 14, 2017 00:54
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Raskolnikov38 posted:eh he buys into their economic policies but not to the extent that others do I_hate_problems_but_love_their_causes.jpg
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Feb 14, 2017 01:00
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chitoryu12 posted:Still amazed this is a serious term. https://twitter.com/Schwarzenegger/status/827169996866347008
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Feb 14, 2017 01:11
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The speed of this gif makes it seem like a gag in a silent movie. Just put it in sepia and add some lovely film effects
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Feb 14, 2017 06:30
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHi3egU7Y_k&t=395s Fun video in general, the machete and shovel near the industrial band saw caught my eye, with of course no real PPE.
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Feb 14, 2017 13:42
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