Star Wars VIII spoil-o-rama thread. You've been warned!

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Cinema Discusso > Star Wars VIII spoil-o-rama thread. You've been warned!

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General Dog: Apr 26, 2008; Everybody's working for the weekend

SuperMechagodzilla posted:

The titles say 'Jedi' and 'Force' because those are recognizable things from Star Wars. The third movie will be called Star Wars Episode 9: Lightsabers

Legend of Palpatine's Gold

# ? Jan 24, 2017 16:50

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# ? May 29, 2024 03:15

TheKingofSprings: Oct 9, 2012

SuperMechagodzilla posted:

The titles say 'Jedi' and 'Force' because those are recognizable things from Star Wars. The third movie will be called Star Wars Episode 9: Lightsabers

This applies to every title except The Phantom Menace and A New Hope, really.

# ? Jan 24, 2017 16:55

Hodgepodge: Jan 29, 2006; Can't post for 212 days!

General Dog posted:

Yoda fought Dooku to a draw and Palpatine kicked his rear end.

Both leverage their environment (and associated symbolism) to get away after fairing poorly in an outright fight.

To conclude that Palpatine kicked his rear end, you'd have to believe he wanted to let Yoda live, which is weird. Physical confrontation was not Palpatine's strong suite.

# ? Jan 24, 2017 17:02

Fuzz: Jun 2, 2003; Avatar brought to you by the TG Sanity fund

Soggy Cereal posted:

That was not the whole point. Obi Wan and Yoda correctly taught Luke about the Force and the Dark Side, and he applied what he learned to overcome obstacles, resist temptation, and redeem his father. They told him he must confront Vader (with the option of killing him) and he did.
You can say that Obi Wan was a bad teacher (unsubstantiated until the prequels and probably not even then) or that he was being obtuse when he pulled the "certain point of view" thing. But Obi Wan, Yoda, and the Jedi, as presented in the original trilogy, were enlightened sages that had a good grasp of the magical and spiritual realities of the setting and the story.
All of the recent cynicism towards them comes from the prequel portrayals where they forbid attachment, participate in politically dicey warfare, and continually make obvious blunders.

Lucas has always maintained, even during and after the prequels, that the "imbalance" in the Force is not that evil needs to be more powerful for things to be fair, but the evil itself.

# ? Jan 24, 2017 17:03

General Dog: Apr 26, 2008; Everybody's working for the weekend

Hodgepodge posted:

Both leverage their environment (and associated symbolism) to get away after fairing poorly in an outright fight.

To conclude that Palpatine kicked his rear end, you'd have to believe he wanted to let Yoda live, which is weird. Physical confrontation was not Palpatine's strong suite.

Yoda ran away and spent the rest of his life in hiding while Palpatine spent the rest of his life as emperor of the galaxy. If it wasn't an rear end-kicking, it was certainly a victory. The imagery- Yoda losing his coat and lightsaber, having to escape through a hole in the wall- all points to him being humiliated.

# ? Jan 24, 2017 17:10

Hodgepodge: Jan 29, 2006; Can't post for 212 days!

General Dog posted:

Yoda ran away and spent the rest of his life in hiding while Palpatine spent the rest of his life as emperor of the galaxy. If it wasn't an rear end-kicking, it was certainly a victory. The imagery- Yoda losing his coat and lightsaber, having to escape through a hole in the wall- all points to him being humiliated.

Yoda concludes he failed when Palpatine escapes him, if I remember correctly.

The rest is certainly a victory, but the victory wasn't in the straight-up fight, it was that all he had to do was prevent Yoda from cornering him in an outright confrontation. Going to rewatch it when I get home though.

# ? Jan 24, 2017 17:45

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE: Aug 1, 2004; whoa, what just happened here?; College Slice

Hodgepodge posted:

Yoda concludes he failed when Palpatine escapes him, if I remember correctly.

The rest is certainly a victory, but the victory wasn't in the straight-up fight, it was that all he had to do was prevent Yoda from cornering him in an outright confrontation. Going to rewatch it when I get home though.

Yoda was the one forced to run in the novelization--he realized that at that point in time Palpatine was literally the living avatar of the Dark Side, ascendant--a thousands years of unchecked Sith schemes had brought the galaxy itself over the edge and no matter how strong in the Light Yoda was he was no match for the capacity of the Dark at that moment.

The novelization ties in beautifully with the conclusion of the OT.

# ? Jan 24, 2017 18:05

Fuzz: Jun 2, 2003; Avatar brought to you by the TG Sanity fund

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:

Yoda was the one forced to run in the novelization--he realized that at that point in time Palpatine was literally the living avatar of the Dark Side, ascendant--a thousands years of unchecked Sith schemes had brought the galaxy itself over the edge and no matter how strong in the Light Yoda was he was no match for the capacity of the Dark at that moment.

The novelization ties in beautifully with the conclusion of the OT.

Sounds like US politics.

# ? Jan 24, 2017 19:02

General Dog: Apr 26, 2008; Everybody's working for the weekend

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:

Yoda was the one forced to run in the novelization--he realized that at that point in time Palpatine was literally the living avatar of the Dark Side, ascendant--a thousands years of unchecked Sith schemes had brought the galaxy itself over the edge and no matter how strong in the Light Yoda was he was no match for the capacity of the Dark at that moment.

The novelization ties in beautifully with the conclusion of the OT.

"Up my rear end for too long, my head has been"

# ? Jan 24, 2017 19:10

gohmak: Feb 12, 2004; cookies need love

21 Muns posted:

Ooh, it'd be pretty amazing if Star Wars IX's title was an infinitive. Star Wars Episode IX: To Ignite The Galaxy.

Episode IX: To Bring Balance

# ? Jan 24, 2017 20:03

Hodgepodge: Jan 29, 2006; Can't post for 212 days!

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:

Yoda was the one forced to run in the novelization--he realized that at that point in time Palpatine was literally the living avatar of the Dark Side, ascendant--a thousands years of unchecked Sith schemes had brought the galaxy itself over the edge and no matter how strong in the Light Yoda was he was no match for the capacity of the Dark at that moment.

The novelization ties in beautifully with the conclusion of the OT.

It's also the polar opposite of the actual film: outside of the first blast, Yoda outright wins every aspect of the fight except for Palpatine getting away. In fact, he begins angling for an exit after Yoda's counterblast. Even the blast that knocks Yoda down and allows Palpatine to escape is the result of Yoda forcing his own force lightning back at him, and it makes them both fall in similar manners. However, it gives Palpatine all he needs, which is a chance to vanish into the senate seats and escape.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DI8kkR9G0Q

Just to spice the discussion up a bit, I'd argue there are thematic reasons for this. Ultimately, the flaw in the Jedi is not a weakness of the Light Side of the Force. Yoda's argument that the Dark Side is not stronger, just easier, is true throughout the films. The Jedi have failed to cultivate an internal (and hence external) society in which the strength of the Light Side is capable of being learned by all but a select few of the greatest Jedi Masters. And Palpatine is correct, Yoda is arrogant and this is why he loses: the fact that the Light Side can win in an outright confrontation with the Dark does not in itself grant victory to the Light. Reliance on force means that by the time the fight comes, it is in effect already lost.

I'd also argue this reflects a theme in the Samurai films which were part of the inspiration for Star Wars, where there is a theme of powerful bloodthirsty warriors being nearly unbeatable but ultimately inferior to a warrior who is at peace in his heart. This is well explained by the myth of the swordsmiths Masamune and Murmasa, who give the RPG weapon staples their name:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masamune#Legends_of_Masamune_and_Muramasa posted:

A legend tells of a test where Muramasa challenged his master, Masamune, to see who could make a finer sword. They both worked tirelessly and eventually, when both swords were finished, they decided to test the results. The contest was for each to suspend the blades in a small creek with the cutting edge facing the current. Muramasa's sword, the Juuchi Yosamu (十千夜寒?, "10,000 Cold Nights") cut everything that passed its way; fish, leaves floating down the river, the very air which blew on it. Highly impressed with his pupil's work, Masamune lowered his sword, the Yawarakai-Te (柔らかい手?, "Tender Hands"), into the current and waited patiently. Only leaves were cut. However, the fish swam right up to it, and the air hissed as it gently blew by the blade. After a while, Muramasa began to scoff at his master for his apparent lack of skill in the making of his sword. Smiling to himself, Masamune pulled up his sword, dried it, and sheathed it. All the while, Muramasa was heckling him for his sword's inability to cut anything. A monk, who had been watching the whole ordeal, walked over and bowed low to the two sword masters. He then began to explain what he had seen.

"The first of the swords was by all accounts a fine sword, however it is a blood thirsty, evil blade, as it does not discriminate as to who or what it will cut. It may just as well be cutting down butterflies as severing heads. The second was by far the finer of the two, as it does not needlessly cut that which is innocent and undeserving."

In another account of the story, both blades cut the leaves that went down on the river's current equally well, but the leaves would stick to the blade of Muramasa whereas they would slip on past Masamune's after being sliced. Or alternatively both leaves were cut, but those cut by Masamune's blade would reform as it traveled down the stream. Yet another version has leaves being sliced by Muramasa's blade while the leaves were repelled by Masamune's, and another again has leaves being sliced by Muramasa's blade and healed by Masamune's.

In yet another story Muramasa and Masamune were summoned to make swords for the Shogun or Emperor and the finished swords were held in a waterfall. The result is the same as the other stories, and Masamune's swords are deemed holy swords. In one version of the story Muramasa is killed for creating evil swords.

While all known legends of the two ever having met are historically impossible, both smiths are widely regarded as symbols for their respective eras.

# ? Jan 24, 2017 20:35

General Dog: Apr 26, 2008; Everybody's working for the weekend

Hodgepodge posted:

It's also the polar opposite of the actual film: outside of the first blast, Yoda outright wins every aspect of the fight except for Palpatine getting away. In fact, he begins angling for an exit after Yoda's counterblast. Even the blast that knocks Yoda down and allows Palpatine to escape is the result of Yoda forcing his own force lightning back at him, and it makes them both fall in similar manners. However, it gives Palpatine all he needs, which is a chance to vanish into the senate seats and escape.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DI8kkR9G0Q

Just to spice the discussion up a bit, I'd argue there are thematic reasons for this. Ultimately, the flaw in the Jedi is not a weakness of the Light Side of the Force. Yoda's argument that the Dark Side is not stronger, just easier, is true throughout the films. The Jedi have failed to cultivate an internal (and hence external) society in which the strength of the Light Side is capable of being learned by all but a select few of the greatest Jedi Masters. And Palpatine is correct, Yoda is arrogant and this is why he loses: the fact that the Light Side can win in an outright confrontation with the Dark does not in itself grant victory to the Light. Reliance on force means that by the time the fight comes, it is in effect already lost.

I'd also argue this reflects a theme in the Samurai films which were part of the inspiration for Star Wars, where there is a theme of powerful bloodthirsty warriors being nearly unbeatable but ultimately inferior to a warrior who is at peace in his heart. This is well explained by the myth of the swordsmiths Masamune and Murmasa, who give the RPG weapon staples their name:

I think it's notable that Yoda loses his Jedi sword, fights Palpatine on his terms by shooting lightning back at him, and immediately falls (or loses "the high ground" as Obi-Wan might put it) and loses his Jedi robe in the process. He is defeated spiritually as well as physically.

# ? Jan 24, 2017 20:49

Hodgepodge: Jan 29, 2006; Can't post for 212 days!

General Dog posted:

I think it's notable that Yoda loses his Jedi sword, fights Palpatine on his terms by shooting lightning back at him, and immediately falls (or loses "the high ground" as Obi-Wan might put it) and loses his Jedi robe in the process. He is defeated spiritually as well as physically.

Yeah. And the metaphor of the setting of the fight in the Senate is perhaps the least subtle in the entire series.

# ? Jan 24, 2017 20:56

Shimrra Jamaane: Aug 10, 2007; Obscure to all except those well-versed in Yuuzhan Vong lore.

It's crazy how much better the novelization for Episode 3 is compared to the actual film. So many things are just different.

# ? Jan 25, 2017 05:44

Schwarzwald: Jul 27, 2004; Don't Blink

So much of the films are in their visuals that I can't really imagine reading a novelization.

# ? Jan 25, 2017 05:50

Captain Splendid: Jan 7, 2009; Qu'en pense Caffarelli?

Some of Matt Stover's prose gets a little too far up its own arse at times but he was definitely one of the best Legends authors

quote:

[�] they know what they�re watching, live on the HoloNet, is the death of the Republic.

Many among these beings break into tears; many more reach out to comfort their husbands or wives, their crech�-mates or kin-triads, and their younglings of all descriptions, from children to cubs to spawn-fry.

But here is a strange thing: few of the younglings need comfort. It is instead the younglings who offer comfort to their elders. Across the Republic�in words or pheromones, in magnetic pulses, tentacle-braids, or mental telepathy�the message from the younglings is the same: Don�t worry. It�ll be alright.

Anakin and Obi-Wan will be there any minute.

And so it is that these adults across the galaxy watch the HoloNet with ashes where their hearts should be.

Ashes because they can�t see two prismatic bursts of realspace reversion, far out beyond the planet�s gravity well; because they can�t see a pair of starfighters crisply jettison hyperdrive rings and streak into the storm of Separatist vulture fighters with all guns blazing.

A pair of starfighters. Jedi starfighters. Only two.

Two is enough.

Two is enough because the adults are wrong, and their younglings are right.

Though this is the end of the age of heroes, it has saved its best for last.

# ? Jan 25, 2017 13:57

euphronius: Feb 18, 2009

Shimrra Jamaane posted:

It's crazy how much better the novelization for Episode 3 is compared to the actual film. So many things are just different.

I didn't find the visuals in the book to be all that good. Too 2 dimensional and who decided to use only words? ? Bizarre. And it was silent!! I need at least some music.

# ? Jan 25, 2017 14:09

Fuzz: Jun 2, 2003; Avatar brought to you by the TG Sanity fund

How has someone not made a @realSheevPalpatine Twitter yet.

# ? Jan 25, 2017 14:24

Looke: Aug 2, 2013

they dont give you enough characters sadly

# ? Jan 25, 2017 14:44

ungulateman: Apr 18, 2012; pretentious fuckwit who isn't half as literate or insightful or clever as he thinks he is

thanks, mr stover

quote:

"You know," Obi-Wan said, "I begin to understand why you
speak of Artoo as though he's a living creature."
"Do you?" He could hear Anakin's smile. "Don't you mean, it?"
"Ah, yes." He frowned. "Yes, of course. It. Erm, thank it for
me, will you?"

# ? Jan 25, 2017 15:01

Hodgepodge: Jan 29, 2006; Can't post for 212 days!

Captain Splendid posted:

Some of Matt Stover's prose gets a little too far up its own arse at times but he was definitely one of the best Legends authors

Anakin and Kenobi are heroes of the Republic :words:

# ? Jan 25, 2017 15:31

Neo Rasa: Mar 8, 2007; Everyone should play DUKE games.

Frozen with terror, the Jedi slowly started to run.

# ? Jan 25, 2017 15:52

Hodgepodge: Jan 29, 2006; Can't post for 212 days!

Like it's not that it's bad, it's just hilariously on point about the fact that its audience needs ~210 words of purple prose to grasp what is obvious to a child watching the film.

# ? Jan 25, 2017 15:57

Ammanas: Jul 17, 2005; Voltes V: "Laser swooooooooord!"

No, it is also bad.

# ? Jan 25, 2017 20:07

General Dog: Apr 26, 2008; Everybody's working for the weekend

I rewatched Episode II recently and noticed there's an establishing shot of Padme's apartment on Coruscant about 25 minutes in and there's a droid replacing the window that Obi-Wan broke when he jumped out of it.

edit: wrong thread, but not really

General Dog fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Jan 25, 2017

# ? Jan 25, 2017 22:07

Gnome de plume: Sep 5, 2006; Hell.
Fucking.
Yes.

SuperMechagodzilla posted:

The titles say 'Jedi' and 'Force' because those are recognizable things from Star Wars. The third movie will be called Star Wars Episode 9: Lightsabers

Nah, here's how it's gonna go

# ? Jan 26, 2017 08:44

The Golden Gael: Nov 12, 2011

Fuzz posted:

How has someone not made a @realSheevPalpatine Twitter yet.

They have: https://twitter.com/RealTrumpatine

# ? Feb 1, 2017 21:17

Assepoester: Jul 18, 2004; Can't post for 10 years!; Melman v2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5maIt37ZdlY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPoqQfG5Qdk

# ? Feb 5, 2017 23:04

cargohills: Apr 18, 2014

Cardboard Box A posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5maIt37ZdlY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPoqQfG5Qdk

I assume you don't expect anyone to actually watch 40 minutes of Star Wars sequel predictions?

# ? Feb 6, 2017 13:39

Fuzz: Jun 2, 2003; Avatar brought to you by the TG Sanity fund

cargohills posted:

I assume you don't expect anyone to actually watch 40 minutes of Star Wars sequel predictions?

I got as far as the guy saying he's an "urban acolyte" and taking about his "awesome Sith hoodie" before I laffoed and turned it off.

Great troll, though. Good job. :thumbsup:

# ? Feb 6, 2017 14:54

Jerkface: May 21, 2001; HOW DOES IT FEEL TO BE DEAD, MOTHERFUCKER?

The bottom video was semi worthwhile because it was extensively sourced. The first was a video that seemed to just say this article saying first look would be x is right

# ? Feb 6, 2017 15:36

Lampsacus: Oct 21, 2008

Ah, Youtube Stars Wars speculation and theorycrafting. Now that's a rabbit hole.
My favourite part of Star Wars is the sheer volume of noise it has generated. There is so much content.

# ? Feb 7, 2017 01:06

AndyElusive: Jan 7, 2007

Guys, Episode 9 will end by the force being balanced by grey force users. My uncle works at Lucasfilm and told me and because Pablo Hidalgo literally cannot shut up or stop leaving hardcore breadcrumbs in everything he's involved with.

# ? Feb 7, 2017 02:08

Gonz: Dec 22, 2009; "Jesus, did I say that? Or just think it? Was I talking? Did they hear me?"

I'm excited for Andrew Dice Clay in Star Wars: Episode IX: I'm Over Here, Now.

# ? Feb 7, 2017 03:15

Cross-Section: Mar 18, 2009

Spoilers for the ultimate fate of one J. J. Binks, as revealed in the final Aftermath book, Empire's End:

In the post-RotJ era, ol' Jar Jar's a street clown entertaining orphaned children on Naboo. He's described as a pariah among adults of even his own species and at that, one who feels remorse for essentially kick-starting that whole 'Empire' thing back in Clones.

[insert poetry quip here]

bonus spoiler:
oh and Rax ain't no Snoke

# ? Feb 14, 2017 07:34

AndyElusive: Jan 7, 2007

Cross-Section posted:

Spoilers for the ultimate fate of one J. J. Binks, as revealed in the final Aftermath book, Empire's End:

In the post-RotJ era, ol' Jar Jar's a street clown entertaining orphaned children on Naboo. He's described as a pariah among adults of even his own species and at that, one who feels remorse for essentially kick-starting that whole 'Empire' thing back in Clones.

[insert poetry quip here]

bonus spoiler:
oh and Rax ain't no Snoke

That's actually kind of sad. Poor guy.

# ? Feb 14, 2017 07:46

Jose Oquendo: Jun 20, 2004; Star Trek: The Motion Picture is a boring movie

Cross-Section posted:

Spoilers for the ultimate fate of one J. J. Binks, as revealed in the final Aftermath book, Empire's End:

In the post-RotJ era, ol' Jar Jar's a street clown entertaining orphaned children on Naboo. He's described as a pariah among adults of even his own species and at that, one who feels remorse for essentially kick-starting that whole 'Empire' thing back in Clones.

[insert poetry quip here]

bonus spoiler:
oh and Rax ain't no Snoke

Why are there spoiler tags in the spoiler tag free thread?

That said, that's loving hilarious. Disney just taking big ol dump on Jar Jar.

# ? Feb 14, 2017 14:00

Super-NintendoUser: Jan 16, 2004; COWABUNGERDER COMPADRES; Soiled Meat

Jose Oquendo posted:

Why are there spoiler tags in the spoiler tag free thread?

That said, that's loving hilarious. Disney just taking big ol dump on Jar Jar.

I thought they showed jar jar die on alderaan in one of the George edits?

# ? Feb 14, 2017 14:13

ungulateman: Apr 18, 2012; pretentious fuckwit who isn't half as literate or insightful or clever as he thinks he is

There's a Gungan who yells 'weesa free!!!!!' at the end of RotJ, but nothing to say it's Jar Jar or that he dies.

It's kinda nice that Jar Jar recognises he's responsible for the rise of the Empire, and chooses to fall back into a normal life where he can't gently caress anything up that spectacularly. :unsmith:

# ? Feb 14, 2017 14:25

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# ? May 29, 2024 03:15

Brother Entropy: Dec 27, 2009

so uh that makes jar jar's overall moral arc 'all sentient life should be treated with respect even if they talk funny....unless they can be a scapegoat for something that a whole lot of people were complicit in bringing about'

# ? Feb 14, 2017 14:30

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Cinema Discusso > Star Wars VIII spoil-o-rama thread. You've been warned!

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