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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Hillary ran a garbage campaign that shortchanged efforts to encourage Hispanic voters. Wasn't there some issue where they didn't even have Spanish language organizers in many places? 
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Feb 14, 2017 22:11
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Kane can speak Spanish!
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Feb 14, 2017 22:13
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Fiction posted:this goes just as much for how many petty bourgeoisie city dwellers who fear guns more than anything else there are out there and how many congressional districts their vote affects Gun control is most popular with urban people of color. Democrats advocating gun control are listening to their constituents. Fiction posted:do you know what it means to not do something versus doing the opposite of it? i'm just commenting on how ferociously it seems you defend the party orthodoxy on something that's not high on the list of problems for most people right now. Most white people JeffersonClay fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Feb 14, 2017 |
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Feb 14, 2017 22:13
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Lightning Knight posted:Wasn't there some issue where they didn't even have Spanish language organizers in many places? A cursory google search doesn't give me anything quite like you're saying. Some organizers were denied Spanish language scripts, and Hillary apparently waited until September to launch Spanish-language campaigns in traditional markets (i.e. television rather than online). Every available evidence from Hispanic and Latinx political advocacy groups shows that Hillary won among them by at least Obama's levels, if not more so. And I'm going to trust the results of groups like Latino Decisions when it comes to those demographics' votes.
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Feb 14, 2017 22:19
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Fiction posted:this goes just as much for how many petty bourgeoisie city dwellers who fear guns more than anything else there are out there and how many congressional districts their vote affects What is the actual policy issue here? (Actual policy, not Wayne LaPierre's fever dreams)
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Feb 14, 2017 22:24
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tbf none of us get a vote in this election and there's unlikely to be any news coming out in the next nine days so we may as well continue shitposting about why we thought the Dems blundered what should have been an open goal.
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Feb 14, 2017 22:30
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Chelb posted:A cursory google search doesn't give me anything quite like you're saying. Some organizers were denied Spanish language scripts, and Hillary apparently waited until September to launch Spanish-language campaigns in traditional markets (i.e. television rather than online). From what you've posted, plus with Trump having such a poo poo ground game, seems to indicate that ground game doesn't matter at all.
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Feb 14, 2017 22:32
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Sapozhnik posted:tbf none of us get a vote in this election and there's unlikely to be any news coming out in the next nine days so we may as well continue shitposting about why we thought the Dems blundered what should have been an open goal. Actually I cashed in my Hillarybux and SorosDinars for a vote.
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Feb 14, 2017 22:37
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Lightning Knight posted:From what you've posted, plus with Trump having such a poo poo ground game, seems to indicate that ground game doesn't matter at all. Well, going back to that 538 article (which seems pretty level-headed to me), it's not that it doesn't matter at all, it's just that for presidential elections, it doesn't matter very much. Hillary won New Hampshire despite its high proportion of non-college educated and nationally trump-leaning whites, which could be seen as evidence of a good ground game in that state. It's reasonable to say that the hundreds of millions of dollars of free publicity given by the media to Trump went a long way towards making up organizational differences. It's also reasonable to say that a ground game is much more important when it comes to low turnout situations like midterms or more local elections. Chelb fucked around with this message at 22:41 on Feb 14, 2017 |
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Feb 14, 2017 22:38
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mcmagic posted:What is the actual policy issue here? (Actual policy, not Wayne LaPierre's fever dreams) whatever the gently caress they have going on in new jersey and that's all i'll say on the matter
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Feb 14, 2017 23:06
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Fiction posted:whatever the gently caress they have going on in new jersey In Joisey, if they catch you en flagrante delicto with a gun, it's criminal sexual conduct 3. Fash af.
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Feb 14, 2017 23:09
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Fiction posted:whatever the gently caress they have going on in new jersey I live in NJ and I have no idea what the gently caress you're taking about.
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Feb 14, 2017 23:18
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Chelb posted:A cursory google search doesn't give me anything quite like you're saying. Some organizers were denied Spanish language scripts, and Hillary apparently waited until September to launch Spanish-language campaigns in traditional markets (i.e. television rather than online). When I started to volunteer, question like #2 or #3 was if I was comfortable doing Spanish language outreach, they were asking everyone who came in to volunteer about it, at my location at least.
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Feb 14, 2017 23:21
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Ellison is gonna lose, isn't he... https://twitter.com/daveweigel/status/831631168755945472
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Feb 14, 2017 23:30
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mcmagic posted:Ellison is gonna lose, isn't he... I would prefer him to win, but on otoh if you can wrangle the votes of these assholes, idk how you're going to make the wheels of power turn.
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Feb 14, 2017 23:31
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:I would prefer him to win, but on otoh if you can wrangle the votes of these assholes, idk how you're going to make the wheels of power turn. It should be very clear to everyone at this point that DNC assholes aren't a proxy for actual voters.
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Feb 14, 2017 23:32
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Chelb posted:
I definitely remember seeing a lot of interviews in black communities by different journalists to gauge their feelings about the two candidates, and there was a lot of apathy towards Hillary and Democrats in general. A lot of respondents didn't like Trump but felt the Democrats didn't do anything for them so they were not going to vote. Unfortunately, they seemed to forget that minimizing the ability of others to do harm to them is doing something. I can only imagine the reaction of BLM the next time there is a shooting, and the entire federal government is siding with the police.
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Feb 14, 2017 23:35
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mcmagic posted:It should be very clear to everyone at this point that DNC assholes aren't a proxy for actual voters. Right but big systemic changes in the party require them to go along with it.
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Feb 14, 2017 23:36
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:I would prefer him to win, but on otoh if you can wrangle the votes of these assholes, idk how you're going to make the wheels of power turn. Ellison needs to stay away from the DNC. Let Perez deal with the sausage making, and step forward to become the de facto leader of the entire party instead.
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Feb 14, 2017 23:37
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TyrantWD posted:Ellison needs to stay away from the DNC. Let Perez deal with the sausage making, and step forward to become the de facto leader of the entire party instead. If Ellison doesn't win this election he's NOT going to be actual or de facto leader of anything.
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Feb 14, 2017 23:38
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TyrantWD posted:I definitely remember seeing a lot of interviews in black communities by different journalists to gauge their feelings about the two candidates, and there was a lot of apathy towards Hillary and Democrats in general. A lot of respondents didn't like Trump but felt the Democrats didn't do anything for them so they were not going to vote. Interviews are anecdotes, and anecdotes do not constitute evidence. They especially don't when in comparison to the issue of GOP-led voter suppression, which is well-researched and substantiated. Anyway, even if it's true that younger black generations were less hype for the Dems - which I don't think has been proven - it's also true that older black generations have consistently and enthusiastically been Dem voters and supporters.
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Feb 14, 2017 23:42
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mcmagic posted:It should be very clear to everyone at this point that DNC assholes aren't a proxy for actual voters. Most DNC business isn't decided by the DNC chair, it's decided by a vote of some portion of the DNC membership. The DNC chair has some say in which DNC members vote, but there's only so much committee stacking they can do if they don't have a hefty portion of the membership on their side. Doesn't matter anymore, though, because questions like "what have the Democrats done recently to reach out to the black community" have once again been sidelined by excuses like "the massive nationwide Republican gains in basically every election since 2008 are all Hillary Clinton's fault" and "but what about the voter suppression we did nothing to stop".
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Feb 14, 2017 23:57
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mcmagic posted:Ellison is gonna lose, isn't he... So who do we believe here?
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Feb 15, 2017 00:19
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Aurubin posted:So who do we believe here? I think you're misreading that, Perez does have that # of votes. The Ellison camp is, naturally, peeved. I do not foresee the Democrats succeeding any time soon.
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Feb 15, 2017 02:21
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Pollyanna posted:I think you're misreading that, Perez does have that # of votes. The Ellison camp is, naturally, peeved. Ellison wouldn't have hacked Pelosi and Schumer to pieces with an axe either, nor would the Indiana mayor with the funny name. Sorry.
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Feb 15, 2017 02:22
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Brainiac Five posted:Ellison wouldn't have hacked Pelosi and Schumer to pieces with an axe either, nor would the Indiana mayor with the funny name. Sorry. True, I just don't see them moving in the right general direction, even regardless of the DNC chair election.
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Feb 15, 2017 02:29
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Pollyanna posted:I think you're misreading that, Perez *does* have that # of votes. The Ellison camp is, naturally, peeved. Does he? Or is he claiming that? Given that he's an Obama/Clinton surrogate, and what happened with the superdelegates during the election, I'm not too ready to believe him.
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Feb 15, 2017 02:43
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Abrasive Obelisk posted:Does he? Or is he claiming that? Maybe I've been out of the loop. Has the election happened yet? e: Oh, Feb 23rd. Okay, yeah, it's probably bullshit.
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Feb 15, 2017 04:02
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Abrasive Obelisk posted:Does he? Or is he claiming that? Oh my loving god dude.
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Feb 15, 2017 04:03
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Take all reports of specific vote tallies with a grain of salt. They are informal commitments right now.
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Feb 15, 2017 08:58
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Time to start beefing up the DSA I guess - the Democratic party is lost. On the plus side I guess I'm free to just vote my conscience in 2018 and going forward.
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Feb 15, 2017 09:32
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Crowsbeak posted:It's an honest word. Also are we supposed to care that a neonazi endorsed anyone? Or is this just another example of centrists using every dirty trick and lie to prevent the Democratic Party from not being a pathetic party that only wins in wave elections? I am going to be so happy when there are no centrists left. Yeah, I'm totally sure the Dems used that deep relationship they have with the loving KKK to get Duke to endorse Ellisson. You know, for a group that can make Republicans instantly say or do literally anything, it's amazing they don't use this brain control machine to win elections. Kilroy posted:Time to start beefing up the DSA I guess - the Democratic party is lost. With Trump's Cabinet crumbling, it sure is nice if you to do everything you can to help him.
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Feb 15, 2017 12:46
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Kilroy posted:Time to start beefing up the DSA I guess - the Democratic party is lost. this really feeds into my contention that modern leftism is a race to be able to say "i told you so" with the most moral authority to the other prisoners in the gas chamber before dying
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Feb 15, 2017 12:49
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Mukaikubo posted:this really feeds into my contention that modern leftism is a race to be able to say "i told you so" with the most moral authority to the other prisoners in the gas chamber before dying Naw, that's modern Centrism.
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Feb 15, 2017 15:18
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Looking forward to the continuation of the democratic party's 150 year streak of doing nothing wrong
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Feb 15, 2017 15:31
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Calibanibal posted:Looking forward to the continuation of the democratic party's 150 year streak of doing nothing wrong lol
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Feb 15, 2017 15:32
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Kilroy posted:Time to start beefing up the DSA I guess - the Democratic party is lost. This is dumb and you know it's dumb. Even if Ellison wins he sets organizational policy, not the platform, and the difference between him and Perez in that sense is nil.
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Feb 15, 2017 16:46
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Lightning Knight posted:This is dumb and you know it's dumb. Even if Ellison wins he sets organizational policy, not the platform, and the difference between him and Perez in that sense is nil. And then it will be something else. And then something else. And then something else.
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Feb 15, 2017 16:47
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Mukaikubo posted:this really feeds into my contention that modern leftism is a race to be able to say "i told you so" with the most moral authority to the other prisoners in the gas chamber before dying Modern leftism is fine. The problem is with modern leftists. The Dems have been lovely centrists for decades, but the so-called left did fuckall about it until someone who's spent a quarter of a century in Congress told them to. There's been no great wave of Iraq War protesters or Occupy marchers primarying Democrats. The activist left stayed silent while Obama pushed Congress to ignore the left and focus instead on appeasing the right. In my eyes, the fact that the self-proclaimed left calls itself the "Sanders wing" rather than the "Occupy wing" is a perfect sum-up of why the left no longer has any power in this country. Instead of working from the bottom up, the angry grassroots sat around waiting for someone on the top to tell them what to do. Instead of organizing and entering politics themselves, progressives shouted "we're really mad" every few years and then waited for politicians to come to them. I have no problem with Sanders, but the fact that he had to take the role of a movement leader and spend two hundred million dollars to get the progressive movement to start doing what they should have been doing all along doesn't reflect well on his supporters.
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Feb 15, 2017 17:20
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Mukaikubo posted:this really feeds into my contention that modern leftism is a race to be able to say "i told you so" with the most moral authority to the other prisoners in the gas chamber before dying Well you're the guys claiming you want to defeat the facsist. Yet you don't want to do anything different to defeat him, and then wonder why we don't show up. Maybe you need to be willing to give us a inch. Maybe offer real change to a sick system rather then saying it was fine b before we got Orange Peron into office. I'll support Ellison for Governor in 2018. So he can run for president in 2020. Then we can ensure you centrists understand who actually represents the party. (Its us, not you losers who cheered a loving financier like Tim Kaine as the VP) Crowsbeak fucked around with this message at 17:27 on Feb 15, 2017 |
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Feb 15, 2017 17:24
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