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I get where you're coming from, but Kickstarter has showed us that a lot of people take getting paid up front as a sign that they don't actually need to work that hard on the final product, and this coming from actual professional companies, not groups of buddies with no experience. I'm not saying they need to put out full free games before they make a Kickstarter, but a video showing off some of the character designs and a basic premise for the plot with some character introductions isn't enough for people to start throwing money. I mean, writing is the main thing people care about in a VN, right? Couldn't the person at least post up the transcript from one full scene or something so people can see their writing quality? Hell I'd even want them to post up a full synopsis (in spoilers or whatever so people can choose whether they want to read it all or not) just to show that they actually have a complete, coherent plot figured out. The whole 'pay for a game you think you might want to play' thought process at Kickstarter is bullshit. That's like an author sending a publishing company the query for their novel and then getting an advance before they write the manuscript. Anyone can make a 5-minute pitch. Not everyone can actually write a complete, sellable story. I'm all for backing good indie projects and helping the medium, but I want the person I'm giving money to to take this as seriously as anyone else would who is trying to sell a product.
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Feb 3, 2017 14:18
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I mean, it's pretty clear that you should do everything you reasonably can to show people what you're selling and what you're capable of, if no other reason than that it will materially harm your campaign if you don't. But if you think you can somehow raise the money you need on the back of a 2-minute elevator pitch, go for it. I wouldn't recommend running a Kickstarter like that, and I wouldn't recommend anyone back it if you do, but as long as you're upfront about just how much you're flying by the seat of your pants, I don't see any moral or ethical problem with it. If people want to take a shaky bet on a really exciting idea that they know isn't likely to materialise in exactly the way they imagine, or at all, then let them. I realise that this makes me sound like a libertarian. To be clear: I'd much prefer that games be funded by universal basic income or government arts grants, but that's obviously not on the table in most of the world.
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Feb 3, 2017 16:14
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Oh yeah, absolutely. I think people should be free to post up whatever they want and back whatever they want. That's fine. I just wish the ratio of elevator pitches to professional, well thought out product presentations was better.
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Feb 3, 2017 17:23
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FractalSandwich posted:If people are moving away from that expectation, that's something to be happy about. If a community doesn't pressure people into working for free when that's not what they want, that can only be a good thing. If they're willing and able to support their medium upfront, that's even better. The community is incredibly friendly and no one is pressuring anyone to give out free VNs  Also there's a fine line b/t free games for everyone and asking for $30,000 in pledges for a mobile VN from a no name company. The huge boost in VNs on Steam from ports and less than complete titles doesn't help matters. Getsuya posted:I mean, writing is the main thing people care about in a VN, right? Couldn't the person at least post up the transcript from one full scene or something so people can see their writing quality? Agreed, I wouldn't mind spoilers as I'd be more comfortable with a single route or even common one available if I were to back a KS project. The scenario writer could even post original fiction or fanfic if they didn't have anything else to show just to check writing quality.
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Feb 3, 2017 22:38
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I think its reasonable to make a VN without having made any games before considering how much simpler than other formats they are, but I'd want to see some kind of past work whether it be writing or games just to prove you can actually complete things
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Feb 4, 2017 01:01
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Alder posted:The community is incredibly friendly and no one is pressuring anyone to give out free VNs Alder posted:Also there's a fine line b/t free games for everyone and asking for $30,000 in pledges for a mobile VN from a no name company. The huge boost in VNs on Steam from ports and less than complete titles doesn't help matters.
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Feb 4, 2017 02:33
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It's not like completing one game is an ironclad guarantee of being able to complete more, of course, especially since asking for outside money often comes with a big increase in the scale and complexity of your project compared to your prior work; look at how Dysfunctional Systems' dev team fell apart after their Kickstarter. They had the skills to make a VN, but they didn't know how to manage a budget, and that's a lot harder to prove you can do until after you've already found someone willing to give you money. Backing a project is always a risk even when the developers have a decent track record.
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Feb 4, 2017 03:33
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FractalSandwich posted:Making games is expensive. $30,000 is almost nothing if you're paying everyone involved, including yourself, what their time is worth. Yes, I'm aware games are a good way to burn money hence I'm wondering if it's a good idea to create a KS with a shaky idea in the 1st place. Thuryl posted:It's not like completing one game is an ironclad guarantee of being able to complete more, of course, especially since asking for outside money often comes with a big increase in the scale and complexity of your project compared to your prior work; look at how Dysfunctional Systems' dev team fell apart after their Kickstarter. They had the skills to make a VN, but they didn't know how to manage a budget, and that's a lot harder to prove you can do until after you've already found someone willing to give you money. Backing a project is always a risk even when the developers have a decent track record. Unfortunately KS is always going to be risky hence I don't back games often but I'd still feel more at ease if they had ANY related work exp with VNs vs 5+ bejeweled clones.
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Feb 4, 2017 07:30
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Does I/O ever get interesting? This VN apparently has four routes, and I can't even make it through A. The high school protagonist dude is extremely boring and unrelatable, and I've tagged along with him for 8 hours and I can't stand it anymore.
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Feb 6, 2017 01:30
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You're probably near the end of that route if it's been eight hours. It becomes a very different VN over time, with some real ridiculous twists and turns.
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Feb 6, 2017 01:41
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Okay well if it's worth continuing with I might as well start over because some of the finer details about the earliest parts of his route have been lost to time
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Feb 6, 2017 01:49
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Sea Sponge Run posted:Does I/O ever get interesting? This VN apparently has four routes, and I can't even make it through A. The high school protagonist dude is extremely boring and unrelatable, and I've tagged along with him for 8 hours and I can't stand it anymore. stuff starts happening but it's not a good VN. Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:You're probably near the end of that route if it's been eight hours. It becomes a very different VN over time, with some real ridiculous twists and turns. the problem with the twists and turns in I/O is that they just come out of nowhere to the point where it seems like less of a twist and more of a random whim of the writer. It spent way too much time setting up elaborate psuedo-deep tie-ins to mythology and not enough actually presenting a central mystery I could care about or a comprehensible storyline with characters I want to stick with. the whole "bundle of mysteries which accumulate and slowly get peeled away layer by layer" is great when done right but it requires patience and investment on the part of the reader, which is undermined by boring characters and random plot developments. the whole thing just feels poorly structured. too much time is spent on things that don't matter like the MMO mechanics and mythology, but the characters, their motivations and the presentation of the plot are barely servicable at best
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Feb 6, 2017 02:07
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Sea Sponge Run posted:Does I/O ever get interesting? This VN apparently has four routes, and I can't even make it through A. The high school protagonist dude is extremely boring and unrelatable, and I've tagged along with him for 8 hours and I can't stand it anymore. It gets worse.
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Feb 6, 2017 02:23
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well on the bright side i am enjoying root double
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Feb 6, 2017 04:47
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Root Double Again: So some ten hours and 15 bad endings later, I finally got a "normal ending" in Root A: Conclusion from Despair Problem is I have no idea what my next move should be. Mop up any bad endings from A I missed? Move on to B? I'd honestly just move straight to B but the game felt the need to complain about how much time I wasted and how things might've been different otherwise, so I dunno if I'm actually done with A yet.
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Feb 10, 2017 11:38
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Sea Sponge Run posted:Root Double Again: You can do any of these things, basically. Personally I switched to Route B when I hit the point you're at, but in retrospect I think it would have been better to finish off A first. Minor game mechanic spoilers: You can get the route A good ending now. Technically beating route B makes some of the criteria for the Route A good end easier to meet, but it's barely a noticeable difference. Also note that bad end collection becomes a lot easier once you have a route's good end.
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Feb 10, 2017 11:53
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Sea Sponge Run posted:Root Double Again: You should really get the good ending in Route A before moving on.
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Feb 10, 2017 12:19
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Do I have to start over? Not gonna lie, i can't even really begin to imagine which SSS options I need to choose to not get the bad ending. I assume it's not the most sensitive thing in the world, but I'm not even sure where to begin, really.
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Feb 11, 2017 01:08
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Use this spoiler-free guide on how to get every ending. It's really good and gives nothing away except senses requirements to get 100% completion and where to save and which saves to go back to and what not. Very comprehensive.
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Feb 11, 2017 01:12
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hey cheers, mate
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Feb 11, 2017 01:40
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Sea Sponge Run posted:Do I have to start over? Depends on your choices, but probably not? I don't know the full list, but there are a few decisions close to the end that it might be enough to change (minor Route A spoilers): Make all decisions first time rather than prevaricating; in particular choose immediately who to team up with in area 6, and suggest splitting the gun evenly the first time you're asked. Team up with Kazami for the last long section, as I believe her path is quickest. If those don't work then I guess restart and resort to a guide. HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:Use this spoiler-free guide on how to get every ending. It's really good and gives nothing away except senses requirements to get 100% completion and where to save and which saves to go back to and what not. Very comprehensive. I wouldn't personally consider that guide spoiler-free. Even the list of routes on the contents page isn't something a player is supposed to know at this point. NRVNQSR fucked around with this message at 03:00 on Feb 11, 2017 |
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Feb 11, 2017 02:57
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I appreciate √A's boss battle of like 4 point checks in a row.
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Feb 11, 2017 03:04
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Okay so far Route B in RD is a million times better at writing a generic school guy than Route A of I/O was
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Feb 11, 2017 09:08
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As I understand it Nakazawa came up with the ideas for the game and then other people actually wrote it. That setup seemed to work a lot better.
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Feb 11, 2017 13:50
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Even though his Route is shorter it's a lot harder to avoid B's bad endings. Bleh.
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Feb 15, 2017 09:46
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Someone who has played Nurse Love Addiction please tell me whether the sister (actual not nurse) is a romance option so I can get my money back from Steam if so. The opening movie made me very worried.
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Feb 15, 2017 09:58
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Sakurazuka posted:Someone who has played Nurse Love Addiction please tell me whether the sister (actual not nurse) is a romance option so I can get my money back from Steam if so. The opening movie made me very worried.
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Feb 15, 2017 10:08
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*sigh* Thanks
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Feb 15, 2017 10:21
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If it's any consolation, it's actually even worse than what you're thinking.
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Feb 15, 2017 10:29
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 Please don't trigger my morbid curiosity.
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Feb 15, 2017 10:34
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Let me put it this way: no matter what it is you were hoping to get out of it, it won't deliver. It isn't the kind of story it presents as, and the twist comes too late to fully capitalise on it. Personally, I don't think it's a fascinating trainwreck or anything. It's just disappointing.
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Feb 15, 2017 10:55
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Yeah Nurse Love Addiction was horrible. The main girl was one of the worst VN MCs I've ever seen. At the very least she was by far the dumbest. I tried to just force my way through because I liked the rest of the cast but then I got to That Scene and quit.
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Feb 15, 2017 14:46
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Nurse Love Addiction starts out looking like a relatively down-to-earth slice of life VN about nursing students with some weirdly-written characters and turns into an increasingly hosed up and implausible soap opera starting from about the point where you lock in a route choice. I don't regret buying it but I have really, really bad taste so you probably shouldn't take that as a recommendation.
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Feb 15, 2017 16:19
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Feels like the twists that're starting to be revealed to me in Root Double would've been obvious if I weren't an idiot They're still being done well, though. e: Well, got Route B finished. What now... Meowywitch fucked around with this message at 09:15 on Feb 16, 2017 |
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Feb 16, 2017 09:03
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Sea Sponge Run posted:Feels like the twists that're starting to be revealed to me in Root Double would've been obvious if I weren't an idiot Route C is next
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Feb 16, 2017 14:12
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Sea Sponge Run posted:Feels like the twists that're starting to be revealed to me in Root Double would've been obvious if I weren't an idiot
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Feb 16, 2017 19:20
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Sea Sponge Run posted:Feels like the twists that're starting to be revealed to me in Root Double would've been obvious if I weren't an idiot I haven't picked it back up in a while after getting sucked down the Higurashi rabbit hole but I'm 99.999% sure from the first ten minutes of Route A that it involves some kind of consciousness-hopping entity, I think it ends up in the little girl when the plot starts? I don't remember exactly what led me to that conclusion but I do remember feeling like it was frustratingly obvious at the time. Don't tell me if I'm right, I guess. Of course I still am dying waiting for the answer arcs of Higurashi despite knowing a pretty major plot twist from that so I should really get back to RD sometime.
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Feb 16, 2017 21:11
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MegaZeroX posted:Route C is next Sure but I wasn't sure if i should stop mopping up loose ends yet
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Feb 17, 2017 00:42
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Oh god Route Double has a lot of endings again fuuuuuuuuuuck I actually thought I was done Meowywitch fucked around with this message at 04:43 on Feb 19, 2017 |
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Feb 19, 2017 04:34
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you certainly got your money's worth with Root Double
Meowywitch fucked around with this message at 04:43 on Feb 19, 2017 |
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Feb 19, 2017 04:40
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