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An Arbalest and someone with a heal or self-heal (crusader, leper, abomination, dog man, hellion) is more than fine on apprentice level while you collect more vestals and occultists. Up your stagecoach so you get at least four options a week, it helps a lot.
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Feb 12, 2017 20:32
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I think the Arbalests heal is decent since it boosts the heal received of the target, and Leper and Hound master have pretty big self Heals. Vestal is great as a healer, no doubt but i notice that people get so attached to having a dedicated healer that they struggle to work around not having one. I think this is a big reason they don't like that religious heroes won't party with the Abomination. One thing I like about the Occultist is that his heal has very good potential yet he's still quite strong offensively, especially in cove. I'll often run Plague Doc/Occultist as my two backrow for Cove runs; they can smash the back rows and their Heals also have nice synergy.
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Feb 12, 2017 20:43
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Been awhile since I booted up the game (still stuck somewhere on my NG+ run) but I'm grateful for the addition of Radiant Mode. As someone who really got into this game last year, one of my lingering complaints has always been how long it takes to finish the thing, which has always made the prospect of replaying it nebulous. An accelerated (but still difficult) setting was exactly what the doctor ordered, should I ever decide to jump back in for a clean run. Also, I'm hoping the addition of Stygian Mode means you don't have to beat the game anymore to unlock Darkest/NG+. My current PC's running on fumes, so I'd rather not have to rebeat the whole game again just to unlock the difficulty I want when I load this game up on my new computer. I know it's got Steam Cloud, but it's a peace of mind thing.
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Feb 12, 2017 20:52
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Panfilo posted:I think the Arbalests heal is decent since it boosts the heal received of the target, and Leper and Hound master have pretty big self Heals. indeed. Also the cove monsters tend to be quite weak to blight which is always awesome. Barnacle barrier can suck ... whatever blight is supposed to be.
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Feb 12, 2017 20:54
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Sparticle posted:Have an Occultist spam Vulnerability Hex. You still have to pray that this both hits and triggers in the first place. Then it gets 3 moves a round so if it actually does work, you're getting that debuff for one single round. Marks have the same problem, other than getting past the debuff roll. And you have to win in 4 rounds while it repeatedly slams you with high damage moves that require you to waste turns on damage control. You do not have meaningful options here. Using a man at arms with Command is the only thing I can think of because buffs will work in terms of your turns and not its turns. Even so that is spending one of your 16 available moves to kill it on something that isn't killing it, which still isn't attractive. But I just finished the game without losing anyone, except for the 2 you have to lose at the end, so I have nothing to do with my guys here but try again. I'll see how well the MAA does
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Feb 12, 2017 22:02
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Digirat posted:You still have to pray that this both hits and triggers in the first place. Then it gets 3 moves a round so if it actually does work, you're getting that debuff for one single round. Marks have the same problem, other than getting past the debuff roll. And you have to win in 4 rounds while it repeatedly slams you with high damage moves that require you to waste turns on damage control. You do not have meaningful options here. I don't know how much this helps, but I beat the Shrieker with the Vestal's Illumination (which is a godawful skill in most regards) as the key ingredient. She had +20 ACC from a Sun Ring and Ancestor's Signet Ring, which made it work. My entire party was max level, and also had Sun Rings. If Illumination can do it, Vuln Hex would've worked even better. I'm also guessing that an Arbalest (natural high ACC, takes advantage of marks) or Grave Robber using throwing knife (which self-buffs ACC per throw) is ideal for damage. Command or Battle Ballad may well be better choices, just thought I'd point out what worked for me.
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Feb 12, 2017 23:24
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So for The Crimson Court, what are the chances that: 1. We get another class 2. We get another healing class 2. We get a healer on par with the vestal
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Feb 13, 2017 01:25
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Just killed the Necromancer for the first time. Cheers 
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Feb 13, 2017 01:26
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Pollyanna posted:Just killed the Necromancer for the first time. Cheers aw man, he just wanted to recite some ancient poetry. it's open mic night at The Caretaker's Secret Stash 
double nine fucked around with this message at 01:32 on Feb 13, 2017 |
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Feb 13, 2017 01:29
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Ragnar34 posted:So for The Crimson Court, what are the chances that: Maybe to the first one, unlikely the other two. They've said on stream that they've kinda done everything they can do in their system with Healing outside of HoT, and that they like the current healer set up (reliable Vestal, risk/reward Occultist). There's speculation we might be getting a Vampire class, or that existing classes can become Vampires for buffs, but that's just basing it off the new wandering boss encounter (The Inquisitor whose hunting Vampires, and hunts you so maybe your Vampires now?)
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Feb 13, 2017 01:31
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Ragnar34 posted:So for The Crimson Court, what are the chances that: i hope vampirism is quirk-based and not class-based. actually i hope it's something more interesting than that but i don't really want to see all vampires have the same seven skills but yes it would be great to get another decent healer that can consistently hit rear ranks, maybe one that's darkness-focused with occultist-style stress penalties. you could call it the Retsej
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Feb 13, 2017 01:32
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I wish the Jester had a move that had very low base damage but a giant crit rate, like 50%. That way he could heal stress while attacking, and if he decided to, he could go on a long string of disappointing you, like he does now.
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Feb 13, 2017 01:52
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Any sort of vampirism will most likely take the form of a quirk your characters are stuck with. My guess is it'll either be something that plays into the torch level mechanic or lets you recover health by doing damage. Might invoke strife with religious party members. The inclusion of a new roaming miniboss whose sole purpose is hunting down vampires makes me assume the new quirk will be something desirable rather than detrimental, since otherwise there's no player dilemma when it comes to removing it - unless the cost of doing so is astronomical.
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Feb 13, 2017 02:56
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I think they've said as much. The Red Something is a quirk.
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Feb 13, 2017 03:17
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I really wish they would just say how it's going to fit in with the current game. Is it going to be it's own thing entirely? Is it going to be another area like the cove? Is it going to be post game content? (Highly unlikely) Is it just going to be a larger than normal patch that affects everything with a lot of changes and additions?
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Feb 13, 2017 19:39
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im assuming there will be a new area with an enemy and/or curio that can give you the new vampire quirk
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Feb 13, 2017 19:55
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perhaps your party members could be the curio...
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Feb 14, 2017 23:07
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I'm liking the gold changes from the Radiant Update
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Feb 15, 2017 07:06
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Blooming Brilliant posted:Maybe to the first one, unlikely the other two. They've said on stream that they've kinda done everything they can do in their system with Healing outside of HoT, and that they like the current healer set up (reliable Vestal, risk/reward Occultist). This is lovely if true. There are 15 classes in the game and one of them is overwhelmingly important to the point where it's worth bringing to absolutely every single mission you run, no exceptions. Every other class is a bad choice in some cases, but the vestal is never worse than merely "unoptimal." There are cases where you can make a better team for a certain boss or whatever if it doesn't include a vestal, but outside of those cases you are still probably taking one to the great majority of missions. If you aren't making heavy use of the vestal, you are more likely to have people die, plain and simple. It's a clear and obvious balance problem and leads to the game becoming bland over time because there's not enough good options for a team that don't include a vestal. It's mostly a problem with level 5 dungeons specifically, since you can often get away without a vestal in short dungeons or level 1/3 dungeons. But crits are so goddamn common and so catastrophic in level 5 that you need the reliable damage control of the vestal to be safe. The occultist is a gamble, the vestal is not.
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Feb 15, 2017 07:54
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Blooming Brilliant posted:Maybe to the first one, unlikely the other two. They've said on stream that they've kinda done everything they can do in their system with Healing outside of HoT, and that they like the current healer set up (reliable Vestal, risk/reward Occultist). I can come up with several mechanically different healing skills just off the top of my head. What about a skill that heals one guy reliably but has a chance to heal someone else as well, just like how some enemy attacks have a chance to hit a secondary target? What about a skill that heals a good chunk but also debuffs your healing received so it becomes less effective when spammed? What about a skill that heals you a good bit but also heals or buffs the enemy? What about a heal skill that pushes the caster forward and can't be used in the front row? There's lots of other potential healing skills that are mechanically interesting.
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Feb 15, 2017 07:59
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Digirat posted:This is lovely if true. There are 15 classes in the game and one of them is overwhelmingly important to the point where it's worth bringing to absolutely every single mission you run, no exceptions. Every other class is a bad choice in some cases, but the vestal is never worse than merely "unoptimal." There are cases where you can make a better team for a certain boss or whatever if it doesn't include a vestal, but outside of those cases you are still probably taking one to the great majority of missions. If you aren't making heavy use of the vestal, you are more likely to have people die, plain and simple. It's a clear and obvious balance problem and leads to the game becoming bland over time because there's not enough good options for a team that don't include a vestal. When I stopped relying on Vestals the game became much more interesting since it opened up new strategies I'd never previously considered. I'm up to champion dungeons on my NG+ run and I still haven't lost anyone despite having more abominations than vestals. They really aren't a necessity once you realise there are more ways to mitigate damage than just healing through it. I'd recommend trying it on your next run if you ever feel like the game is getting stale.
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Feb 15, 2017 08:53
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Mzbundifund posted:I can come up with several mechanically different healing skills just off the top of my head. What about a skill that heals one guy reliably but has a chance to heal someone else as well, just like how some enemy attacks have a chance to hit a secondary target? What about a skill that heals a good chunk but also debuffs your healing received so it becomes less effective when spammed? What about a skill that heals you a good bit but also heals or buffs the enemy? What about a heal skill that pushes the caster forward and can't be used in the front row? There's lots of other potential healing skills that are mechanically interesting. Why isn't there a crappy heal that becomes a good heal when you use it on a marked or stunned ally? Or a riposite heal that has the healer heal an ally at random when the healer gets hit? Or a heal more or less effective if the target is afflicted or on deaths door
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Feb 15, 2017 09:37
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I've run several parties with minimal healing, or even without. Stun-heavy parties, especially, can get a lot done by preventing damage before it happens. Still, I feel like a decent frontline healer would really open up your options, though that poses other complications. Healers are a traditionally a squishy lot, so you'd need to beef 'em up a bit to stand a chance. A combat medic, perhaps? Heals and protects, something like that.
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Feb 15, 2017 10:13
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change a man-at-arms shout to be a 1-2hp heal
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Feb 15, 2017 10:25
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This crow monster is a real piece of poo poo. Three actions a turn, 63% dodge, steals your trinkets, gives special quirks and some of them suck, uninstalls the game if you lose, deletes your homework, makes your parents not love you anymore, causes bleed, blight, debuffs, disease, and mal du siècle. What a dick. On the plus side, I have too many champion characters anyway. If I don't finish the rest of the veteran bosses soon, some of these nerds will need to die heroically to make room.
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Feb 15, 2017 12:12
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Ragnar34 posted:On the plus side, I have too many champion characters anyway. If I don't finish the rest of the veteran bosses soon, some of these nerds will need to die heroically to make room. I feel like I just need to throw a lot of my current roster into the meat grinder so I can stock up and train more level 1s-3s, sunk cost fallacy though ><
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Feb 15, 2017 16:16
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Honestly I thought about it a lot and I think the best solutions to the healing problem are adding in common consumeable items that just act like red potions, or instantly consumed drops when you win fights that provide heals and relief. Or, massive buff to camping. Any works. Right now, there are certain battles that are very clearly (or accidentally) recovery fights. It'd be much healthier for the game to either have, for example, a pelagic guardian drop a 'full party heal orb' upon defeat then present me with a time-tax of 20-40 rounds to accomplish the same thing. I guess they could work to get rid of recovery battles instead, but that would hugely ramp up the difficulty without making it more enjoyable. Edit: I don't buy the talk on minimizing the importance of healing and the Vestal. While it's true you can usually burst down the enemy teams, this isn't as good as bursting down key targets then spending a little time playing with your food in order to top off and be on the best foot for the next fight. A PD is great for stun teams because they are so incredibly fast and can stun both back line enemies, and a follow up can kill them quickly. But then, what would you rather do. Keep the pace up and kill them front liners, or take full advantage and string it out a bit so you completely reverse any incidental / unavoidable damage and stress? Makaris fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Feb 15, 2017 |
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Feb 15, 2017 16:21
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Sparticle posted:When I stopped relying on Vestals the game became much more interesting since it opened up new strategies I'd never previously considered. I'm up to champion dungeons on my NG+ run and I still haven't lost anyone despite having more abominations than vestals. They really aren't a necessity once you realise there are more ways to mitigate damage than just healing through it. I ran plenty of missions without vestals, and saw a marked difference in how risky those missions were compared to when I had a vestal. You can get away with not using a vestal in medium/long level 5 dungeons, and it can be fun to do so, but it is simply way less safe. Crits are common and disastrous in level 5 dungeons, and the vestal is the only class that can reliably mitigate them. Everyone else with a reliable heal does not necessarily heal enough to take someone far enough off death's door that a DOT tick won't take them back to death's door, except the plague doctor since she cures DOTs (and the plague doctor is easily one of the best classes besides). Basically, the vestal isn't a requirement but she is by far the best RNG mitigation in the game, and this is a game where losing one character means you're out tens of thousands of gold and hours of time spent leveling them. Losing people is incredibly punishing and that severely dampens my willingness to do anything risky. This is why they need more safe variety.
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Feb 15, 2017 16:48
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Makaris posted:Right now, there are certain battles that are very clearly (or accidentally) recovery fights. It'd be much healthier for the game to either have, for example, a pelagic guardian drop a 'full party heal orb' upon defeat then present me with a time-tax of 20-40 rounds to accomplish the same thing. How awesome would it be if your party sat down to camp, and the Bounty Hunter started roasting a fish man in the background? Patch the game so you can collect a corpse of a fallen enemy, and cook them while camping. After a tough battle with the Shambler, you throw his rear end on the grill and eat up. 
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Feb 15, 2017 16:49
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You really want to eat something that twisted? That's how you get more Ascended Cultists and the like. Even the Ancestor had the sense to dump the possessed flesh rather than try to open bistros and 'experimental cooking'. And the Shambler's something even worse than that. ...Probably tastes awful in any case. Bloodly fucked around with this message at 17:05 on Feb 15, 2017 |
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Feb 15, 2017 17:03
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Every time you use Collect Bounty, a food appears in your inventory.
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Feb 15, 2017 17:05
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Jedah posted:How awesome would it be if your party sat down to camp, and the Bounty Hunter started roasting a fish man in the background? Patch the game so you can collect a corpse of a fallen enemy, and cook them while camping. @ digirat - agreed And I really like the above idea and want to expand. Like, imagine if almost all enemies had a unique item drop. Cultists drop fetishes you can carry and destroy in the camp fire to reduce stress. Make you have to make more decisions on whether you take the loot, or carry the stuff that helps ensure the success of the mission.
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Feb 15, 2017 17:06
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Bloodly posted:You really want to eat something that twisted? That's how you get more Ascended Cultists and the like. Even the Ancestor had the sense to dump the possessed flesh rather than try to open bistros and 'experimental cooking'. And the Shambler's something even worse than that. Haha, you're probably right about that. But I do love the idea of eating Baby Back Wilbur.  Imagine how funny the callout dialogue could be. You'd have the Vestal and Crusader expressing their disgust, while the Bounty Hunter and Hellion silently stuff their faces with swine folk meat. Makaris posted:And I really like the above idea and want to expand. Like, imagine if almost all enemies had a unique item drop. Cultists drop fetishes you can carry and destroy in the camp fire to reduce stress. Make you have to make more decisions on whether you take the loot, or carry the stuff that helps ensure the success of the mission. This is a great solution, since it works off existing game mechanics. Like you said, a big part of the game is juggling inventory space, so you'd have weigh the pros/cons of having an additional camping bonus, or if you wanna be greedy and carry around an extra stack of cash. I think there's a ton of potential to explore here, and certain classes could have special benefits. For example, maybe the Antiquarian recognizes a particular artifact, or knows something unique about one of the enemy drops, and they receive a special bonus if they use it while camping. Or maybe there could be special enemy drops that only show up if you have a Graverobber in your party, for example. Jedah fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Feb 15, 2017 |
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Feb 15, 2017 17:30
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I really want a Sushi Chef quirk that improves food drop off eldritch.
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Feb 15, 2017 17:40
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Jedah posted:Haha, you're probably right about that. But I do love the idea of eating Baby Back Wilbur. "Every part of the swine but the squeal"
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Feb 15, 2017 17:50
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I think an obvious solution that Red Hook are going to be implementing is healing via vamprism. So that's a thing, too.
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Feb 15, 2017 18:08
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Also if you want to just absolutely stomp the poo poo out of dd2 run the below comp. PD > VESTAL > CRUSADER > MAA Make sure you kit the PD out with a focus on stuns (stun amulet and blasphemous vial) and leave the torch off the Crusader. Equip the Crusader with Holy Orders and a sun ring or something. The flow of the battles will go like this. PD stuns the Templar. Stuff happens and the Templar clears the stun when it tries to act. Templar eventually uses it's remaining action to use Revelation, which harmlessly bounces off someone. If you were super unlucky and the MAA couldn't block, the Crusader will be okay to tank it. Since the Templar using Revelation cleared it's stun resist buff, it is again vulnerable to the PD. Repeat as necessary. The only bad fight is the double Templar. The others are recovery battles if you have a PD and run the above tactic. Outside of doing the above, try to note (or use a map online) where the fights with double rapturous cultists or malignant growths are. You can use those fights to get a full recovery and well. Makaris fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Feb 15, 2017 |
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Feb 15, 2017 18:31
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One underrated thing about Darkest Dungeon: it actually has a "_windowsnosteam" directory with a built-in updated version that will run outside of Steam. Believe it or not, the game will run just fine off a USB stick (aside from a very long load time to start). Between that and its turn-based nature, it's quickly becoming my "bored at work" go to game. The only thing you have to remember is to move your save files onto the USB when you're done.
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Feb 15, 2017 18:45
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Anyone else running into regular graphical glitches of the background with this patch?
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Feb 15, 2017 20:24
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Digirat posted:I ran plenty of missions without vestals, and saw a marked difference in how risky those missions were compared to when I had a vestal. You can get away with not using a vestal in medium/long level 5 dungeons, and it can be fun to do so, but it is simply way less safe. Crits are common and disastrous in level 5 dungeons, and the vestal is the only class that can reliably mitigate them. Everyone else with a reliable heal does not necessarily heal enough to take someone far enough off death's door that a DOT tick won't take them back to death's door, except the plague doctor since she cures DOTs (and the plague doctor is easily one of the best classes besides). The occultist can reliably mitigate damage through means other than healing. His heal should be used for topping up rather than saving heros from deaths door. Weakening Curse and smart pulls can negate more potential damage than just healing. This makes the occultist the safer option in lvl 5 Weald. Giants and Fungal Crawlers can 1shot a hero and all it takes is a bad speed roll (vestals are slow) for another minion to land a death blow. The vestal can do little to avoid this. This is why people hate the weald and run to the steam reviews page to comlpain about RNG. Weakening Curse turns the giant into a joke and pulling a Crone or Fungal Bombard forward will ruin those double Crawler groups.
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Feb 15, 2017 21:48
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