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I mean I guess it's worth noting that the current C7 has a marginally faster lap time around VIR than a Lamborghini Murcielago and the current model Porsche Cayman GT4. Also the current Z06 beat everything but the Viper ACR and the 918, so if these are garbage shitboxes I guess you've got a really short and expensive list of what's good. I was only 25 when I got my Corvette, and I didn't stroke my flaccid dick to it, but I'm sorry you've been exposed to douchebag car guys. Maybe it's the area you live in but I assure you there are just as many young dudes with fully functioning erections that stroke it to their underpowered front wheel drive 90's econoboxes that have been slightly lowered.
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Feb 15, 2017 04:11
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davebo posted:I mean I guess it's worth noting that the current C7 has a marginally faster lap time around VIR than a Lamborghini Murcielago and the current model Porsche Cayman GT4. Also the current Z06 beat everything but the Viper ACR and the 918, so if these are garbage shitboxes I guess you've got a really short and expensive list of what's good. While I'm not a Corvette guy (I would like to have a C5, but honestly would love a C4 ZR-1) GM definitely deserves respect for them. This the weirdest thing about GM from a few decades ago: 1) Can crank out the GNX 2) Typhoon and Syclone trucks 3) LT5 with the ZR-1 4) Corvettes have cheapy switch gear, interior bits, AC Delco radio, etc. I can't imagine the infighting, bean counters, Bob Lutz trying to shove poo poo through, project heads pleading and cutting corners, etc. to see some of these exist all while they push out a Cimarron. But yeah, optispark was a bad idea.
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Feb 15, 2017 04:27
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C-Bangin' it 
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clam ache posted:so some old gently caress can stroke his small flaccid dick to his wicked vette You have a strange fixation on old men and their erections (or lack thereof.)
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Feb 15, 2017 06:39
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Colostomy Bag posted:Good old Roger Smith. His decisions were baffling. RIP.
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Feb 15, 2017 09:51
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f_c_ posted:i owend a c4 and i liked it Its the 1 80s GM that was good. If you want an example of everything wrong with 80s GM read up on the 4+3 transmission, though.
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Feb 15, 2017 09:54
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Don't forget about the olds diesel or the 8-6-4 engine. Classic GM. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAngJRVboaE Three-speed automatic! Hugh G. Rectum fucked around with this message at 10:33 on Feb 15, 2017 |
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Feb 15, 2017 10:23
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Human Grand Prix posted:Its the 1 80s GM that was good. If you want an example of everything wrong with 80s GM read up on the 4+3 transmission, though. Mine was the one after the sadness of crossfire and the 4+3. 250hp and 350lbs of torque made it a fun street car. The interior lights coming on driving over speed bumps with the top off was the terrible car stuff.
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Feb 15, 2017 13:39
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1500quidporsche posted:The Cimarron was a good example of just how loving bad product planning at GM was. They basically identified that Cadillac's market share was being eaten by small imports but then completely failed to articulate why that was happening. Give me a history lesson here. Why was it happening?
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Feb 15, 2017 13:44
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Hugh G. Rectum posted:Don't forget about the olds diesel or the 8-6-4 engine. Classic GM.
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Feb 15, 2017 15:38
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fakeaccount posted:Give me a history lesson here. Why was it happening? Because US car makers were still selling cars by the pound at that point. Large cars were expensive to buy and maintain, but were well appointed and luxurious to drive (with terrible gas mileage). Burning lots of gas was just part of the cost of ownership. Small cars were cheap to buy and maintain, with chintzy, spartan interiors. They got good gas mileage because the owners couldn't afford to buy it. The assumption was that people would buy all the car they could afford, and were buying small cars only because they couldn't afford a big one. Imports started eating their lunch because there actually was a market for well-appointed small cars. Honda, particularly, with first the Civic and then the Accord, sold like crazy because they were small, fun to drive, and well appointed with lots of luxuries and gadgets that simply couldn't be had in a small American car. GM's response was platform-sharing across brands - so they could sell you a small Chevy upmarket as a Caddy. With five brands, though, keeping them distinct became a problem. The similarities between Chevrolets and Cadillacs became too obvious and the Cadillac brand lost all of its luster in a hurry. That's also why Oldsmobile and Pontiac bit the dust.
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Feb 15, 2017 15:48
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iospace posted:Base or srt-4? Fiero.
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Feb 15, 2017 16:02
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Deteriorata posted:Because US car makers were still selling cars by the pound at that point. Large cars were expensive to buy and maintain, but were well appointed and luxurious to drive (with terrible gas mileage). Burning lots of gas was just part of the cost of ownership. Small cars were cheap to buy and maintain, with chintzy, spartan interiors. They got good gas mileage because the owners couldn't afford to buy it. The assumption was that people would buy all the car they could afford, and were buying small cars only because they couldn't afford a big one. I had the pleasure of driving one of the last Olds models (98 intrigue). And by pleasure, it was a loving whale for the time, but for a first car, it got the job done. Oh, and it ate transmissions at the same rate rotaries eat apex seals.
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Feb 15, 2017 16:13
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f_c_ posted:Mine was the one after the sadness of crossfire and the 4+3. 250hp and 350lbs of torque made it a fun street car. The interior lights coming on driving over speed bumps with the top off was the terrible car stuff. I have one with TPI and a 4+3. It's fun to drive and didn't cost very much. The digital dash is the best part! The terrible part is the window switches and the stupid disintegrating headlight gears.
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Feb 15, 2017 16:15
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Deteriorata posted:That's also why Oldsmobile and Pontiac bit the dust. Body cladding. I graduated high school in 2002, and the number of two and three year old Grand Ams in the parking lot with oxidized paint and loose body plastic was astonishing. 
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Feb 15, 2017 16:55
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Ribbed for her pleasure.
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Feb 15, 2017 17:07
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fakeaccount posted:Give me a history lesson here. Why was it happening? It was a variety of factors but basically Cadillac and Lincoln had been doing an arms race for who could build the biggest cars and increasingly chasing volume sales at the expense of their brand image. That opened up the gap for the Germans to come in with smaller, better built cars and then the oil crises in the 70s left Cadillac in incredibly weak condition where they now had to compete in a market segment they largely abandoned. The ultimate nail in the coffin was the VER which meant that the Japanese could only sell so many cars and so suddenly the focus for them was on pushing luxury trim levels.
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Feb 15, 2017 17:27
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FogHelmut posted:Body cladding. These were such awful cars but gently caress me they were goddamn everywhere.
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Feb 15, 2017 17:35
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Hugh G. Rectum posted:Don't forget about the olds diesel or the 8-6-4 engine. Classic GM. Basically the reason Americans have a hard time trusting diesels. And yes I'm hate corvettes and have had many bad experiences. Also every time I get in one I'm not impressed. It's GM quality with a good motor attached to it. I'm sorry I hate corvettes after the 70s and nothing will ever change that. You guys can love whatever you want but I will always hate hate hate corvettes. Truthfully since my new owner took Over I haven't touched a vette in a year. It's amazing.
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Feb 15, 2017 17:35
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Shrapnig posted:These were such awful cars but gently caress me they were goddamn everywhere. I just bought a house and my new neighbor across the street had one of these in his driveway. I've heard it a couple times and it sounded like a lawnmower. I figured it was an exhaust leak, but no, when he introduced himself to me and I brought it up, he said it was running on two cylinders. That was in early January. It's still running on two cylinders.
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Feb 15, 2017 18:16
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Shrapnig posted:These were such awful cars but gently caress me they were goddamn everywhere. In my head I call them deer catchers because they are super common up in Wisconsin and they're always beat to poo poo with mismatched body parts, and I figure there's two kinds of cars up that way: ones that are about to a deer, and ones that have already hit a deer.
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Feb 15, 2017 18:16
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Laura-4-Lyfe posted:I have one with TPI and a 4+3. It's fun to drive and didn't cost very much. The digital dash is the best part! The terrible part is the window switches and the stupid disintegrating headlight gears. There are upgrade kits with metal gears for the pop ups.
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Feb 15, 2017 18:58
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The Midniter posted:I just bought a house and my new neighbor across the street had one of these in his driveway. I've heard it a couple times and it sounded like a lawnmower. I figured it was an exhaust leak, but no, when he introduced himself to me and I brought it up, he said it was running on two cylinders. The poor guy, he's accepted his fate like a fox accepts chewing off its foot to get out of a trap. You don't want to but gently caress it, you gotta do what you gotta do.
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Feb 15, 2017 19:15
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NYLON GEEEEEAAAAR 
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Feb 15, 2017 19:15
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david_a posted:Did MotorWeek actually do negative reviews? I watched the Cimmaron review (22s quarter mile!) and they had a lot of nice things to say about even the first year model. Very rarely. For example, instead of saying the car's controls suck, they might say they're not laid out in a driver convenient way. I watched this show for years and got a serious shock when I first saw Top Gear. Hell, even Fifth Gear was light years ahead. Nobody on the show has anything approaching an appealing personality.
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Feb 15, 2017 23:52
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Hugh G. Rectum posted:Don't forget about the olds diesel or the 8-6-4 engine. Classic GM. I think the 8-6-4 started malfunctioning when it pulled out of the lot. 1981 was not a year to buy a Caddy. It was either the 8-6-4 or the diesel. Yikes.
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Feb 16, 2017 00:09
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FogHelmut posted:Body cladding. That specific generation used to have the wiper arms tear off in the carwash. And in more then a few I went to adjust the A/C and the knob came off. I worked for a rental company, these were brand new deliveries.  "this isn't even my final form!" Crustashio fucked around with this message at 00:28 on Feb 16, 2017 |
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Feb 16, 2017 00:25
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Hugh G. Rectum posted:Don't forget about the olds diesel or the 8-6-4 engine. Classic GM. God I hope this isn't the 98 that Chuck D was rapping about.
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Feb 16, 2017 00:41
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FogHelmut posted:Body cladding. Shrapnig posted:These were such awful cars but gently caress me they were goddamn everywhere. I graduated in 2000 and drove a 92 Grand Am SE V6 and loved it  Basically this, but silver. It had a decent amount of get up and go, I mean it obviously is not in any way a performance car but it could outrun the "base model plus a cheapo air intake and decals = race car" civics around me, much to their surprise, and that was fun. All my friends, of course, never stopped bringing to my attention that swapping two letters in the name resulted in me driving a "Grand Ma", and that is terrible car stuff.
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Feb 16, 2017 01:33
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Colostomy Bag posted:I think the 8-6-4 started malfunctioning when it pulled out of the lot. And in 82 they added the fantastic aluminum block/iron head 4100 HT engine...
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Feb 16, 2017 05:22
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I'll never understand what on earth possessed GM to think having another go at aluminum block cast iron head was a good idea. The whole Cadillac division really was a loving mess by the 80s. I mean really who the gently caress thought the belt straps on the Seville trunk was a good idea in 1980?
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Feb 16, 2017 05:41
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 Woops Couple more here
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Feb 16, 2017 05:45
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Seems like an awfully expensive method to harvest oranges.
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Feb 16, 2017 05:48
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Another sad thing about 80s GM is the Fiero. Here was a car with so much potential ruined by beancounters and poor marketing. The '88 models were a massive improvement but the damage had been done.
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Feb 16, 2017 05:54
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Human Grand Prix posted:Another sad thing about 80s GM is the Fiero. Here was a car with so much potential ruined by beancounters and poor marketing. The '88 models were a massive improvement but the damage had been done. 80s GM: Half-assed design and half-fast performance.
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Feb 16, 2017 05:56
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80s GM had a deep and abiding love for loving things up out of the gate, and then killing them once they finally got around to fixing them because they couldn't fix the lousy reputation they'd built. The Fiero and Allante are the two best examples I can think of off the top of my head. They only died once they stopped sucking so utterly and completely.
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Feb 16, 2017 05:59
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Human Grand Prix posted:Another sad thing about 80s GM is the Fiero. Here was a car with so much potential ruined by beancounters and poor marketing. The '88 models were a massive improvement but the damage had been done. Tale as old as time, tune as old as song. the SSR: year 1 - 300hp 5.3, 4 speed automatic only. customers: this is trash, i'll buy something else instead year 2 - 390hp 6.0, 6 speed stick. customers: yeah, whatever, i already bought something else.
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Feb 16, 2017 05:59
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Deteriorata posted:Seems like an awfully expensive method to harvest oranges. Didn't even get any in the frunk.
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Feb 16, 2017 06:05
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Human Grand Prix posted:Another sad thing about 80s GM is the Fiero. Here was a car with so much potential ruined by beancounters and poor marketing. The '88 models were a massive improvement but the damage had been done. Never mind the fact that they spent the first half of the decade building Buick into a really decent European luxury fighter with the GN and then just went "lol nope" and forced them to make poo poo like the W body regal.
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Feb 16, 2017 06:14
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iospace posted:I had the pleasure of driving one of the last Olds models (98 intrigue). Mom had a 99 Intrigue. The only thing that didn't ever have issue was the transmission. It was on its 3rd ac compressor, 2nd water pump, 2nd set of head gaskets, 2nd starter, 3rd HVAC blower, 3rd climate control controller (had automatic ac), and the interior was completely falling apart - leather was already cracking, door card trim fell off of all 4 doors, headliner was sagging, window switches kept popping out. All with only 45k, and only worked on by the dealer. She was the 2nd owner, original owner was her brother's daughter (who did take good care of it), and it was sold when new by the dealer my uncle worked for. I liked the 3800, it had some pretty good power for such a boat, and got pretty good mileage for a midsize sedan. The rest of the car was a dumpster fire, and she barely trusted it enough to get her across town. She traded it in for a 2003 Toyota Avalon in 2002 with a couple of hundred miles (they drove it down from Louisiana when they sold her car out from under her)... and still has the Avalon. She's never owned a car with more than 45k, she's up to nearly 160k now. It's had some issues (evap system was gutted and replaced wholesale when the dealer didn't want to track down all the leaks, needed an ac condenser last year, starting to blow blue smoke on a cold start, and its automatic rustproofing is working very well), but the cost of ownership has been pennies compared to anything else she's ever owned. I just have to stay on her back about checking the oil. It could use new struts and valve cover gaskets (... AGAIN), but I wouldn't hesitate to drive it on a cross-country road trip. So far my own GM (06 Saturn) has held up pretty well; it's has a few issues, but all of the expensive stuff has wound up being covered by some kind of special warranty coverage or recall (most expensive would have been the fuel pump, I didn't pay a penny to get it fixed). I expect it to do what most GMs seem to do - engine keeps running forever, body falls apart before 200k.
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