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Countries and patriotism/nationalism trick people into thinking that the people at the top are on the same side as the people at the bottom just because they were born within the same boundary on a map. They're bad for that reason even if for no other. e: 88 is a number popular with patriots.
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Feb 16, 2017 13:51
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big scary monsters posted:Countries and patriotism/nationalism trick people into thinking that the people at the top are on the same side as the people at the bottom just because they were born within the same boundary on a map. They're bad for that reason even if for no other. I and I assume everyone else here disagree with birthplace nationality, I think that can probably be disregarded. Paxman posted:I often behave in an immoral way. I think there's a false implication that 'moral' and 'immoral' are black and white like that.
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Feb 16, 2017 13:54
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Cerv posted:a core member of the inner circle of the left wing leadership of the country's major left of centre party. close ally of Corbyn for decades. Sure why not. Driving licenses should be issued if you can demonstrate a genuine need, most city dwellers have no such need.
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Feb 16, 2017 13:55
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marktheando posted:Sure why not. Driving licenses should be issued if you can demonstrate a genuine need, most city dwellers have no such need. Do you think that people should be able to buy their own food or should every citizen be issued with a certain amount of nutrient paste every month?
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Feb 16, 2017 13:57
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Fangz posted:I and I assume everyone else here disagree with birthplace nationality, I think that can probably be disregarded. You're right, I was probably being too pithy. Boris Johnson for instance was born in the USA and I don't think he has my best interests at heart either.
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Feb 16, 2017 13:57
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I'd love to hear what "shared British beliefs" might be.
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Feb 16, 2017 13:58
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The UK has always been weird as a nation-state. It has no demonym that encompasses the whole territory unless you're one of those Ulstermen that considers themselves 'true British'. There's no united paper currency, there's English and then there's a couple of Scottish and some Northern Irish notes, and a unitary set of coins shared with the Channel Islands (which are sorta part of England but not part of the UK) and Manx. There's no national day. The national anthem is the same as the royal anthem of half a dozen other countries, but some of the constituent parts have their own. The national mythology is highly fractured. Many foreign people call the whole thing England in casual chat to annoy the rest of the country. There are usually at least two international sports teams, and sometimes four. It's almost like the flailing appendix of dynastic monarchism, which never properly fell to the bourgeois revolutions that created the first wave of nation-states, nor the losses in combat which created the second, nor the struggle from colonies that created the third (there's probably a good reason for that).
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Feb 16, 2017 13:58
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Isn't 'British' the demonym of the UK? Tbh I find all that stuff that we don't have the mark of a country confident in its identify and origin: if we suddenly decided we needed a national day and to stamp out any other identities I'd be worried.
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Feb 16, 2017 14:01
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Paxman posted:And I think this is actually an idea that we tend to accept. We don't think a doctor should be able to ensure their relative gets treatment first. We would call that a "conflict of interest", and demand that someone else - an impartial person - make the decision instead. We wouldn't blame a doctor for putting their relative first, as that would indeed be "only human". But we wouldn't think it was moral behaviour, which is why we'd try to prevent it happening. To play devil's advocate, a widespread opinion is that this is actually exactly reversed. The desire of the doctor to prioritize their friends or relatives or generally people they care about is actually moral and good and adheres to the principle that "you should return good to people who do you good". Preventing the doctor from doing this as part of their professional duty is actually the immoral act - it causes psychological harm to the doctor, and doesn't overall help anyone - but one that is often expedient.
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Feb 16, 2017 14:03
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Pissflaps posted:Isn't 'British' the demonym of the UK? Lots of people in NI aren't British.
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Feb 16, 2017 14:05
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Filboid Studge posted:Lots of people in NI aren't British. Do many people in NI consider themselves Northern Irish, and not either British or Irish, though?
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Feb 16, 2017 14:06
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Cerv posted:a core member of the inner circle of the left wing leadership of the country's major left of centre party. close ally of Corbyn for decades. Yeah all right I guess *throws out bust of Nye Bevan, replaces it with Diane Abbott's memoirs* guess there's no choice but to look to ol' Di-Ab for all future moral compass considerations.
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Feb 16, 2017 14:06
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Pissflaps posted:Isn't 'British' the demonym of the UK? 'British' doesn't work so well in certain parts of Northern Ireland, which is not part of Britain anyway unless you wear too much orange and believe that the BT in the postcode means British Territory and not Belfast.
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Feb 16, 2017 14:08
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Gort posted:I'd love to hear what "shared British beliefs" might be. Self-deprecation. EDIT: I mean seriously, the most british thing is this widespread habit of making a point that Britain Is A Bit poo poo.
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Feb 16, 2017 14:11
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I only identify as English when the rugby is on
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Feb 16, 2017 14:11
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Fangz posted:Do many people in NI consider themselves Northern Irish, and not either British or Irish, though? About 20% self identified as Northern Irish in the last census as their primary nationality but isn't necessarily mutually exclusive with being simultaneously Irish or British
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Feb 16, 2017 14:14
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Pissflaps posted:Do you think that people should be able to buy their own food or should every citizen be issued with a certain amount of nutrient paste every month? No I think that in most cases people should be allowed to buy whatever food they want for themselves and their families. With the exception of parents who are abusing their kids by raising them to be fat, they should have control over their food choices taken away.
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Feb 16, 2017 14:14
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marktheando posted:Sure why not. Driving licenses should be issued if you can demonstrate a genuine need, most city dwellers have no such need. yeah i definitely never want to do any of the interesting things around the north east you need a car for
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Feb 16, 2017 14:16
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Pissflaps posted:I'd consider myself instinctively 'british'. People who bang on about being uniquely English or Scottish seem to be UKIP/SNP types I considered myself more British until I moved to East Anglia and discovered how little of a poo poo most of the people here give about anyone else. Brexit really brought out a nasty side of a lot of people.
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Feb 16, 2017 14:16
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Lord of the Llamas posted:I moved to East Anglia
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Feb 16, 2017 14:17
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I'd really really love to see private automobiles phased out and replaced with a combination of public transport and a fleet of publically operated electric self-driving cars, to be honest.
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Feb 16, 2017 14:18
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Jose posted:yeah i definitely never want to do any of the interesting things around the north east you need a car for Car sharing schemes are a thing. (Ok I should have said the right to own a car should be restricted rather than driving licenses).
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Feb 16, 2017 14:20
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Driving is extremely good, actually, and anyone who wants to control where you can go is a massive fascist.
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Feb 16, 2017 14:21
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I remember the first time I tried to buy something in London with NI sterling and was denied. I started in on a rent about colonialism, but then stopped myself when I realised the only response was literally "Sir, this is a Burger King"
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Feb 16, 2017 14:22
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jBrereton posted:Driving is extremely good, actually, and anyone who wants to control where you can go is a massive fascist. Funny thing for a Tory to say, I thought you lot were the party of controlling where people are allowed to go.
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Feb 16, 2017 14:24
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Fangz posted:EDIT: I mean seriously, the most british thing is this widespread habit of making a point that Britain Is A Bit poo poo. All beings of the universe are British
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Feb 16, 2017 14:25
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i want a bmw i8 but its a bit out of my price range
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Feb 16, 2017 14:25
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marktheando posted:Funny thing for a Tory to say, I thought you lot were the party of controlling where people are allowed to go.
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Feb 16, 2017 14:26
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Jose posted:i want a bmw i8 but its a bit out of my price range
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Feb 16, 2017 14:27
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Gort posted:All beings of the universe are British The second commonly held British belief is this weird notion that other people give a poo poo about Britain.
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Feb 16, 2017 14:29
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Tesseraction posted:Yeah all right I guess *throws out bust of Nye Bevan, replaces it with Diane Abbott's memoirs* guess there's no choice but to look to ol' Di-Ab for all future moral compass considerations. frankly i'm disgusted that you'd have that bust in the first place. few things are more immoral that opposition to UK's nuclear disarmament.
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Feb 16, 2017 14:30
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jBrereton posted:How's about a Nissan Leaf with an extensive bodykit? wonder if that would even be road legal
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Feb 16, 2017 14:30
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Fangz posted:I'd really really love to see private automobiles phased out and replaced with a combination of public transport and a fleet of publically operated electric self-driving cars, to be honest. Same. I'm keeping my motorbike though!  (if private vehicles are to be phased out, it should be because public/commons owned transport becomes the naturally better choice for the majority of people, in a way that doesn't involve making private ownership artificially unattractive or illegal)
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Feb 16, 2017 14:32
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Jose posted:wonder if that would even be road legal Only one way to find out!!
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Feb 16, 2017 14:33
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Guavanaut posted:I see your mistake here. I'm moving back to Edinburgh ASAP.
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Feb 16, 2017 14:35
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Fun fact: the word for 'Britain' and 'England' are the same in Chinese.
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Feb 16, 2017 14:35
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On the other hand, loving do it so I can live out the plot of Network Traffic
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Feb 16, 2017 14:37
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WeAreTheRomans posted:I remember the first time I tried to buy something in London with NI sterling and was denied. I started in on a rent about colonialism, but then stopped myself when I realised the only response was literally "Sir, this is a Burger King" Surprising that an explicitly royalist company isn't willing to accept Northern Ireland as a part of the UK.
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Feb 16, 2017 14:37
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big scary monsters posted:Surprising that an explicitly royalist company isn't willing to accept Northern Ireland as a part of the UK.
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Feb 16, 2017 14:39
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Fangz posted:Fun fact: the word for 'Britain' and 'England' are the same in Chinese. 英國 - the United Kingdom 英格蘭 - England The latter only really gets used for stuff like the England football team and the former is just a shortening of the latter but the distinction does exist. There is an actual word for the UK that isn't derived from England but no fucker uses it and I have no idea what it is.
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Feb 16, 2017 14:40
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