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Comrade Gorbash posted:What you're describing is a more complicated method to achieve functionally nearly identical results. ... no? A tier 3 crew going up against a tier 5 target shouldn't be rolling three dice. It's only identical for new crews, which will always be starting at zero dice because everyone is bigger than them.
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Nov 24, 2016 21:46
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Update just came through, looks like backerkits and the final PDF is releasing tomorrow, a year and 2 months late but hey, it's finally here (soon) !
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Jan 29, 2017 20:23
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Backerkit emails just went out, at the end is the digital download link. It's finally here! Edit: First change I see is that the healing clock got changed from 8 segments to 4 segments, which is pretty nice. Fenarisk fucked around with this message at 22:35 on Jan 30, 2017 |
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Jan 30, 2017 22:31
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It looks like all the Special Armor abilities had a proactive use added to them (check to Push for an action) as well as the reactive consequence avoidance use, which is neat. Also, Not To Be Trifled With got a bit of a nerf, which is probably fine.
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Jan 31, 2017 20:13
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I like how many of the class abilities are changed to just let you push yourself to achieve special effects. The Whisper's Tempest ability, especially, seemed both overly vague and overly expensive before ("take stress to, I dunno, do storm stuff?"), but now it lets you push yourself to either use lightning as a weapon along with any other action, or to create storm effects in your immediate vicinity. And that's unrelated to what action you're rolling. You can use Tempest to Skirmish with lightning or use a heavy fog to cover you when you Prowl and you do both (and other things) by pushing yourself. It's neat. Big fan of the smaller healing project clock, too. Perfect timing on this full release, as far as I'm concerned, because I'm just about to start running Blades in the Dark again and it's nice to have a new version to go along with that.
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Jan 31, 2017 20:55
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It's not just a smaller healing clock - he changed the entire process in a good way. I like the changes. Old process: 1. Use a recover action to unlock the 8-tick clock. It starts with no ticks. 2. Use long term project actions to tick the clock. 3. Once clock is complete, remove ALL harm 4. Taking harm before the clock is complete locks it again, but doesn't remove ticks. New process: 1. 4-tick clock is always unlocked 2. Use recover action to tick the clock 3. Once clock is complete, downgrade each harm by one level. Extra ticks carry over. 4. Taking harm before the clock is complete removes all ticks.
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Jan 31, 2017 21:00
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One thing: I really wish they would've bookmarked the PDF.esquilax posted:It's not just a smaller healing clock - he changed the entire process in a good way. I like the changes. Sweet. I hadn't gotten there yet, but yeah, that's a nice change.
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Jan 31, 2017 21:02
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They're apparently going to add bookmarks/index after the final "Everyone has eyes on it to spot obvious errors/typos/problems" sweep. (Deadline for reporting weird mismatched stuff is 2/15, I believe.)
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Jan 31, 2017 21:23
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Am I wrong or weren't there supposed to he a couple of additional crew types, Grifters and Vigilantes? Vigilantes is relegated to a weird part in the "hacking the game" chapter along with a link to a website that doesn't work and Grifters are nowhere to be seen. Did these get spun off into supplements?
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Jan 31, 2017 23:02
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Kai Tave posted:Am I wrong or weren't there supposed to he a couple of additional crew types, Grifters and Vigilantes? Vigilantes is relegated to a weird part in the "hacking the game" chapter along with a link to a website that doesn't work and Grifters are nowhere to be seen. Did these get spun off into supplements? I have a few answers for this.
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Feb 1, 2017 00:23
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unseenlibrarian posted:They're apparently going to add bookmarks/index after the final "Everyone has eyes on it to spot obvious errors/typos/problems" sweep. (Deadline for reporting weird mismatched stuff is 2/15, I believe.) This is one of the cooler systems I've read in some time, but this v8 final is definitely rough. It's only final in that I think it's the last iteration of the system. There are a lot of orphaned rules in this book. But it's amazing, regardless. Likely to be my fav pickup of 2017. I may be more excited about this than I was about Godbound last year.
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Feb 2, 2017 19:02
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CitizenKeen posted:There are a lot of orphaned rules in this book. Like what? And did you report them using that Google form that was sent out in the last update?
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Feb 3, 2017 19:30
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Kestral posted:Like what? And did you report them using that Google form that was sent out in the last update? https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeFH3y4C4FDehJ-S04xDAqfWbN5cGpZHngKK7JcX-KHhi2WKg/viewform
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Feb 3, 2017 19:40
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Megazver posted:https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeFH3y4C4FDehJ-S04xDAqfWbN5cGpZHngKK7JcX-KHhi2WKg/viewform Yep, that one. ~*~ We have the power ~*~ to alert them to errors, omissions, and orphaned rules, so we ought to use it. CitizenKeen, if you don't want to file a bunch of reports, I'll happily write them if you want to describe the issues you've found or give page references.
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Feb 3, 2017 19:46
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I sent them one!
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Feb 3, 2017 20:56
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Since I wasn't following development closely after something like version 3, I'm doing a thorough read of the final release and I'm pretty happy. I was worried about rule bloat when the very simple game originally presented by the Kickstarter seemed to expand suddenly with every new draft, but I think it's all pretty good in the end. However, I just got to the Slide's always-detect-lies ability, and I'm sorely disappointed. This kind of poo poo is always a headache, and it just brutally undercuts a massive portion of social interaction, particularly in Victorian Crime World. Which is a massive dump on the very thing the Slide is supposed to be doing. Was there any discussion of this whenever it was introduced? I notice it's in at least the last few drafts. Are there any particularly interesting house rules anyone's come up with to replace it?
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Feb 4, 2017 11:02
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That Old Tree posted:However, I just got to the Slide's always-detect-lies ability, and I'm sorely disappointed. This kind of poo poo is always a headache, and it just brutally undercuts a massive portion of social interaction, particularly in Victorian Crime World. Which is a massive dump on the very thing the Slide is supposed to be doing. I don't think that there was ever any really deep discussion about it, but I could have missed it. While I see where you're coming from in terms of just skipping out on a lot of social back and forth, I think that if the player is on the same page as the GM with it, a balance could be struck? For instance, I think that if all it does is just tell the Slide "this person is lying in their statement" then it's still up to the Slide to determine what part of the sentence is a lie. Sure, they could start to try and drag the discussion into very clear yes-no statements, but I think any number of people will see what's happening there and refuse to engage. Also, it means that I can have Lying Cat as a PC, so that's pretty great. Edit to add: I suppose that it could be changed to "push yourself to be able to tell if anyone you are speaking with is lying for a scene" though, and it wouldn't be too bad that way. Dzurlord fucked around with this message at 17:24 on Feb 4, 2017 |
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Feb 4, 2017 17:22
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Dzurlord posted:I don't think that there was ever any really deep discussion about it, but I could have missed it. This is more or less how I feel about it (spoiler alert, I haven't played BitD but I've played an RPG or two before if that counts). There's a certain kind of player out there who, during every social encounter with someone, will wait for the nearest convenient pause in the conversation to go "I roll X to see if he's lying." And I'm kind of okay with that really, that's what social skills are for...if you're going to have abilities like Bluff or Insight in a game then there's no reason why someone shouldn't be able to simply declare their use of them the same way the Fight Man can go "I use Athletics to break the door down." It's not the use of the skill itself that gets tiring after a while but going through the same ritual time after time does get tiring. D&D4E attempted to address this with passive deductive scores, so if your Passive Insight was 15 then everything that would require a DC15 Insight check or lower you just automatically succeeded at instead of having to constantly stop and go "okay I'm rolling now, okay what does this roll tell me." Blades seems to be taking this a step further by simply giving the social guy an option to know without any sort of busywork whether someone is lying or not, period. Now me, I don't think this undercuts that particular portion of social interaction so much as it recontextualizes it. The quintessential example of this is the old standby of "Mr. Johnson tells you that this is an easy job and the target has minimal security." So if the GM informs the Slide with this ability "oh yeah and surprise, he's lying" the question now becomes instead of "Is Mr. Johnson lying to us?" it's "What is Mr. Johnson lying about?" You know that he's lying, which means there's some deliberate misinformation coming your way, not just a potential run of bad fortune...if Mr. Johnson truly believed this would be an easy job with minimal fuss your ability wouldn't ping, even if it then turned out that whoops, they raised security recently because of something entirely unrelated. So now instead of starting your potential investigations and groundwork from square one, you have a more insightful avenue to go on. Is he lying about it being an easy job because he's trying to cheap out on the payoff? Is he lying about it because you're being set up and this is actually a trap of some sort? You know something's off and can attempt to prepare accordingly, but it still requires some more investigation or social interaction to try and tease details out of Mr. Johnson. Or you can immediately confront him with the knowledge that he's lying and see what shakes out. Or you can sit on the information and let him think he's fooled you while you look into things on your own. Either way the ability simply lets you cut through the bullshit formality of "okay I roll to see if he's lying, I mean I'm PRETTY SURE he is but let's be positive" and simply lets you give them the answer (yes) while then asking what they plan to do with that (not entirely precise) knowledge.
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Feb 4, 2017 19:42
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Does anyone have any idea what the quality of the POD copies will be like? I'm trying to decide I should wait for that, or grab the hard cover from backerkit. $20 shipping to Canada loving sucks for a $10 book though.
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Feb 4, 2017 20:44
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Demon_Corsair posted:Does anyone have any idea what the quality of the POD copies will be like? I'm trying to decide I should wait for that, or grab the hard cover from backerkit. If they're anything like the normal DriveThruRPG PODs, they'll be "okay." The main weak points will be the binding (although BitD is fairly slim, so that might be fine if you don't abuse your books) and the richness of the black ink, which is normally not a huge deal but will definitely affect the presentation of Blades' artwork. Evil Hat doesn't skimp on print quality, so if you can afford it without hardship, I strongly suspect the hardcover will be a substantially better product.
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Feb 4, 2017 20:58
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Demon_Corsair posted:Does anyone have any idea what the quality of the POD copies will be like? I'm trying to decide I should wait for that, or grab the hard cover from backerkit. If it helps, the high quality books will be like $30.00 after release, so you're still getting it for less than what you'd pay if you change your mind later
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Feb 5, 2017 06:44
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Kai Tave posted:Lots of good words on lying NPCs. Yeah, if you read the move literally, it just says that you know they're lying and nothing about knowing what the truth is. Also, they're spending a move choice to do that instead of any of the following: -Talking to all ghosts like they're normal people -Ability to use stress to key something off your highest ability -Bonuses while using disguises + getting initiative whenever you throw off a disguise -Free money in every downtime phase -Making people literally forget about you until they see you again -Special social armor -Free die for any person you've had an intimate relationship with If they're picking this ability, they are signaling that they want to deal in intrigue not by using disguises, not by conning ghosts, etc, but by knowing who's lying to them. Just make sure they don't speak in yes or no, black and white statements, and it seems like the second weakest move choice to start with (free money being the worst to start with, as you'll basically be running naked move-wise for a few jobs).
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Feb 5, 2017 07:09
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thelazyblank posted:Just make sure they don't speak in yes or no, black and white statements I would say that if they really wanted to do this you could go ahead and let them try but it would probably count as something you'd want an action roll for, with successful results allowing them to steer the conversation in a way that lets them glean more refined information but worse results causing the conversation to go sideways as the other party realizes they've been caught out and are now being grilled. I mean you probably shouldn't be turning every conversation with a dodgy NPC into a roll because that's exactly what this power is supposed to be preventing (plus you probably shouldn't be making tons of rolls anyway) but if a player is really insistent that they want to effectively interrogate someone then, well, that would probably require a roll as much as someone conducting an actual interrogation. Kai Tave fucked around with this message at 07:35 on Feb 5, 2017 |
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Feb 5, 2017 07:33
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Honestly I have a lot of lying NPCs and at least 70% of the time a player asks "is he lying to me?" I immediately say yes. It's just more interesting that way. Even if I'm going to force a roll, in PbtA it usually just takes a roll of 7+ on Read a Person, which is not automatic but often close to it. Lies just aren't that interesting. Why someone is lying and what they're hiding is a lot more interesting, and the skill doesn't reveal that.
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Feb 5, 2017 08:45
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Working my way through the pdf and I can't wait to give this a shot. Still need to wrap my head around stress, consequences, and the healing clock. Is anyone planning to start up a PBP? I would love to play, but don't have a good enough grip on the rules to actually run something.
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Feb 6, 2017 21:56
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I'd like to give this a go on Roll20, maybe will do a slapdash, awkward one-shot or something.
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Feb 6, 2017 22:09
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Regarding The Slide: just use the rules for Bullshit Detector from Gumshoe. It's the same basic thing: 1) You just know they are lying - nothing more 2) True-blue sociopaths or entities for which true/lies have no real distinction can't be read 3) People in EXTREME emotional distress can't be read
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Feb 6, 2017 22:20
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Reading through the damage and healing rules and it makes me wonder if this game is meant to be played with each PC have a couple different characters to pick from. Getting a level 2 or 3 wound seems like it would knock a character out of action for a few heists. -1d is a pretty heavy penalty. One thing I have wondered, is that -1d for all skills? If I have a deep cut in my arm would that affect a sway or study roll?
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Feb 9, 2017 04:53
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Level 1 and 2 Harm only apply to fictionally appropriate skills. Source is 2nd paragraph on pg. 31. It should be pretty easy to treat a 2/3 harm down to 1/2 in one phase of downtime, or all the way down to zero if you're flush with cash. -1D is a harsh penalty but (a) it's only appropriate skills and (b) these are fuckin' scoundrels; they don't stay home just because of a measly broken arm.
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Feb 9, 2017 05:13
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It does say depending on tone, feel free to totally mitigate any harm with resist rolls and just let the remainder be stress if you want them less beat up. The way I would play it, all harm 1 boxes go away at the beginning on downtime automatically, and only harm 2 and 3 need clocks so it isn't too terrible for players.
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Feb 9, 2017 05:24
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Demon_Corsair posted:Reading through the damage and healing rules and it makes me wonder if this game is meant to be played with each PC have a couple different characters to pick from. Considering one of options for overindulging on your Vice is "you don't get to play that character this session" I'd say 100% players are supposed to have multiple PCs at once. I ran a full campaign of Blades during the v7 playtest and while the healing rules have been greatly accelerated in this version, a combination of Harm and overindulgence meant that about half the party required a second PC at one point.
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Feb 9, 2017 15:24
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admanb posted:Level 1 and 2 Harm only apply to fictionally appropriate skills. Source is 2nd paragraph on pg. 31. Knew I was missing something. Fenarisk posted:It does say depending on tone, feel free to totally mitigate any harm with resist rolls and just let the remainder be stress if you want them less beat up. The way I would play it, all harm 1 boxes go away at the beginning on downtime automatically, and only harm 2 and 3 need clocks so it isn't too terrible for players. Yea, I would play the level one harms like FATE minor consequences, they go away at the end of the score, or even scene depending on what they are.
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Feb 9, 2017 19:08
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Next dumb question. For the showdown on the docks example of play, is that just a free play set of rolls, or should that be considered a score? Making a show of force probably wouldn't net you any coin, but it would probably be a way to earn rep...
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Feb 9, 2017 22:22
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Demon_Corsair posted:Next dumb question. For the showdown on the docks example of play, is that just a free play set of rolls, or should that be considered a score? I would interpret that example as being either players handling an Entanglement rolled up by the GM, or just free play. Again this is an example where it depends on how harsh you want the game to be -- if you go to downtime and do payoffs for every short bit like this, your players will get richer and push to their goals much faster; if you don't and throw these at your players every session, they might start to feel like they're running on a treadmill. I could definitely see at a minimum awarding rep for a scene like this, especially since it emphasized their lack of hold as the cause.
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Feb 9, 2017 22:36
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Based on the discussion here and my brief skimming of the current digital release, it seems like this game landed right in the middle of mediocrity, which I consider a real shame. For a game that promises good, clean heist adventures, it's got a health system more complicated than FATE, editing like Shadowrun (see: "health penalties are explained in the 2nd paragraph on page 31"), and a bunch of character moves that feel like they started out as PC custom moves and moved into the playbooks. The heist clock and crew mechanisms are neat, though, and the setting is fun enough. Overall, though, the game overall definitely feels lacking in polish and grace compared to other work in this style (high-profile indy storygaming, I mean). I'm excited to see the 10 bad Shadowrun hacks, though!
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Feb 16, 2017 01:21
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QuantumNinja posted:Based on the discussion here and my brief skimming of the current digital release, it seems like this game landed right in the middle of mediocrity, which I consider a real shame. For a game that promises good, clean heist adventures, it's got a health system more complicated than FATE, editing like Shadowrun (see: "health penalties are explained in the 2nd paragraph on page 31"), and a bunch of character moves that feel like they started out as PC custom moves and moved into the playbooks. The heist clock and crew mechanisms are neat, though, and the setting is fun enough. Overall, though, the game overall definitely feels lacking in polish and grace compared to other work in this style (high-profile indy storygaming, I mean). nah actually it's good
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Feb 16, 2017 01:44
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QuantumNinja posted:editing like Shadowrun (see: "health penalties are explained in the 2nd paragraph on page 31") I have no idea what you mean by this. Health penalties are explained in the section titled "Consequences & Harm," yes. How is this supposed to be bad editing again?
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Feb 16, 2017 02:09
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That sentence and variations on it appear nowhere in the PDF so 
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Feb 16, 2017 02:14
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I actually thought the book was edited pretty well and the layout was super clear and easy to read/find stuff in. But I've only read it once and I don't actually play RPGs (I try a lot though) so maybe it doesn't work that well if you're looking for stuff in the middle of a game? Edit: I also don't think the health system is that complicated? Sure, it's a bit more involved that FATE, but this isn't a FATE game even if it has "stress". I think the stress in bitd is a pretty interesting mechanic in general, actually! Hugoon Chavez fucked around with this message at 08:19 on Feb 16, 2017 |
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Feb 16, 2017 08:15
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QuantumNinja posted:editing like Shadowrun (see: "health penalties are explained in the 2nd paragraph on page 31"), Wait, how does it mean a book has bad editing if health penalties are explained in a paragraph on a page?
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Feb 16, 2017 14:35
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