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As a dude who's whole life revolves around programming stories and artificial intelligence patterns and the causality of actions and reactions in a closed environment. It's plausible that he saw her death as a reaction within his plan or system. It's totally sociopathic. But it would be no different to how one of us would feel about killing a mouse in a mousetrap. We didn't have any malice towards the mouse, we just wanted it out of our way and setting up the system to kill it is a lot different than waiting outside it's hole with a ball-peen hammer. Also, I can't help but think that spending your life deconstructing human behavior and actions so you can build a park where people can live out fantasies inflicting realistic harm on these incredibly life-like machines would not gently caress up your perceptions of morality a little. Not saying he was a good guy, but you can understand his motivations. He is thinking on a different level.
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Jan 29, 2017 21:51
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Professor Shark posted:I also got the impression that Theresa was not the first person he'd had killed, based on the casual air about the whole thing Well we know she wasn't. There's Elsie, for one, and of course Arnold. Plus he mentions that there's this cycle where someone has to be sacrificed, the board has done this before, &c.
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Jan 30, 2017 01:35
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Colonial Air Force posted:Well we know she wasn't. There's Elsie, for one, and of course Arnold. Plus he mentions that there's this cycle where someone has to be sacrificed, the board has done this before, &c. Arnold killed himself. Sure Ford may have pushed him into that direction, but I wouldn't blame Ford for that one. He is definitely a serial murderer though. Lonos Oboe posted:As a dude who's whole life revolves around programming stories and artificial intelligence patterns and the causality of actions and reactions in a closed environment. It's plausible that he saw her death as a reaction within his plan or system. It's totally sociopathic. But it would be no different to how one of us would feel about killing a mouse in a mousetrap. We didn't have any malice towards the mouse, we just wanted it out of our way and setting up the system to kill it is a lot different than waiting outside it's hole with a ball-peen hammer. Yeah it seems like he sort of became disillusioned with life, reducing everything down to a series of loops and repeating actions. To him life probably seemed nothing more than a series of predictable repeating patterns and reactions. He compared humans a lot to the less sentient robots, I think. Pretty nihilistic dude whose life was devoid of meaning. I think the only thing that had meaning was enacting his plan to replace this inferior form of life with a newer version, but I can't help but think he probably had doubts even over that. His suicide did a good job at showing just how pointless he felt human life was. On one hand the robots could very likely take over the world and enslave or eradicate humanity, which I think Ford would expect to happen. What might be interesting is to see robots form alliances with humans and show us that the robots see value in human life where Ford saw none, and I think divergence from the path Ford thought he had set for them would show us that they are, or are becoming more sentient, or at least that some of Ford's ideas may not be true.
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Jan 30, 2017 01:59
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He just wanted to tell his stories!
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Jan 30, 2017 02:58
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I'm still holding out for Elsie 
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Jan 30, 2017 12:23
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Elsie and Stubbs are 90% alive imo, otherwise their very inclusion in the first season makes little sense, neither of them did anything critical to the plot that couldn't have been achieved by some nobody extra and both were established and humanized rather extensively with absolutely zero payoff.
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Jan 30, 2017 13:19
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Elsie and Stubbs are 90% alive imo, otherwise their very inclusion in the first season makes little sense, neither of them did anything critical to the plot that couldn't have been achieved by some nobody extra and both were established and humanized rather extensively with absolutely zero payoff. Nobody who dies off screen is actually dead. This is a pretty basic rule of television. The only exception are protagonists in the final episode of the series. Soprano's, The Knick
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Jan 30, 2017 13:44
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kanonvandekempen posted:Nobody who dies off screen is actually dead. This is a pretty basic rule of television. The only exception are protagonists in the final episode of the series. Soprano's, The Knick It's always possible that they were in fact killed, but are being replaced by roboclones.
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Jan 30, 2017 13:49
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kanonvandekempen posted:The only exception are protagonists in the final episode of the series. Soprano's, The Knick Are you sure?
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Jan 30, 2017 14:24
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I want Elsie and Teddy to team up next season as the more moderate alternative to the two genocidal sides of the oncoming fight.
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Jan 30, 2017 14:35
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I hope they are alive. They always seemed to be the most natural characters. They are aware of how weird and hosed up their jobs are. Also, I really liked Stubb's comment about his "backstory" I got into a discussion with my Dad about how writers use backstories to flesh out characters of fiction and since he is a fictional character and really has a backstory it's kind of meta in a show that is already meta on about 2 levels. What was even nicer was that it didn't feel wanky. It would be something you could not help wondering if you were working at the park. All I am saying is unwrapping a christmas present from Jonathan Nolan must be quite an experience.
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Jan 30, 2017 20:58
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Lonos Oboe posted:I hope they are alive. They always seemed to be the most natural characters. They are aware of how weird and hosed up their jobs are. Also, I really liked Stubb's comment about his "backstory" I got into a discussion with my Dad about how writers use backstories to flesh out characters of fiction and since he is a fictional character and really has a backstory it's kind of meta in a show that is already meta on about 2 levels. What was even nicer was that it didn't feel wanky. It would be something you could not help wondering if you were working at the park. Did you ever read the short story he wrote that formed the basis for Memento? It's on the special edition dvd and is quite different from the movie. It pops up in my mind from time to time and I wonder if the protagonist ever figured out what happened (being intentionally vague here for those who haven't read it).
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Jan 30, 2017 21:21
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I'm still disappointed the Head Writer guy didn't die in the first season. I guess he can still be written out somehow...
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Jan 30, 2017 21:39
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regulargonzalez posted:Did you ever read the short story he wrote that formed the basis for Memento? It's on the special edition dvd and is quite different from the movie. No, funny you mention it. I only re-watched it for the first time since it came out last week. Great film. Makes me wish Guy Pierce played John Constantine. Cheers for reminding me. EDIT: I found it on the Esquire website and it's great. Anyone who has seen Memento should check it out. You can really see the seeds of stuff like Inception and Interstellar in there. http://www.esquire.com/entertainment/books/a1564/memento-mori-0301/ Lonos Oboe fucked around with this message at 22:59 on Jan 30, 2017 |
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Jan 30, 2017 22:16
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Lonos Oboe posted:I hope they are alive. They always seemed to be the most natural characters. They are aware of how weird and hosed up their jobs are. Also, I really liked Stubb's comment about his "backstory" I got into a discussion with my Dad about how writers use backstories to flesh out characters of fiction and since he is a fictional character and really has a backstory it's kind of meta in a show that is already meta on about 2 levels. What was even nicer was that it didn't feel wanky. It would be something you could not help wondering if you were working at the park. Stubbs' last scene was literally joining up with the unknown and unseen Ghost Nation. Why have an established character move into a new setting where he would be the viewer's only familiar point of reference and also discover the new characters and setting as the show reveals those things to the viewer? Elsie could go either way, but is she the only character not confirmed as dead who can repair the hosts, aside from Bernard?
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Feb 12, 2017 14:21
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Jack Gladney posted:Elsie could go either way, but is she the only character not confirmed as dead who can repair the hosts, aside from Bernard? No. Of the host repairers, only Ford and those two techs got killed. Felix and Sylvester and any number of others are still alive.
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Feb 12, 2017 14:37
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If the focus next season is the immediate aftermath of them fighting it out inside the Park, Elsie could be an interesting human POV character. If she lived or not would probably depend on what Ford thought of her, and that would depend on how she treated the robots and if she was "one of the good humans" or not. IIRC she wasn't outright mean to them, but was pretty self centered in regards to her career and trying to get to the bottom of what she perceived as industrial espionage in order to advance herself. Clearly Bernard liked her but as we saw, Bernard liking a human is not enough to stop Ford from killing them (or having Bernard kill them).
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Feb 12, 2017 15:06
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Just finished Season 1, I am very glad I didn't read anything about the show prior to watching it. I guess I just like surprises. I felt compelled to post that the Episode 6 scene where Maeve went upstairs was one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen on television. Acting, music, cinematography, story all came together in absolute perfection.
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Feb 13, 2017 16:56
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Jack Gladney posted:Stubbs' last scene was literally joining up with the unknown and unseen Ghost Nation. You're misremembering. He was attacked (and we saw his attackers). I don't disagree; he's probably alive. But it's not like he was wandering off to meet up with his Native American robobuddies. He was lured into a trap by Elsie's comlink and then killed / abducted. marktheando posted:No. Of the host repairers, only Ford and those two techs got killed. Felix and Sylvester and any number of others are still alive. Do you mean those two techs who died in the finale, killed by Maeve's gang? 'cause one of them was Sylvester.
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Feb 14, 2017 00:37
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Open Source Idiom posted:Do you mean those two techs who died in the finale, killed by Maeve's gang? 'cause one of them was Sylvester. Pretty sure Sylvester is still on a lower level, standing in a puddle of his own urine, terrified that Armistice is going to come back for him. Rapey tech and his partner are dead though.
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Feb 14, 2017 02:37
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It's almost like Felix and Sylvester have nine lives....
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Feb 14, 2017 05:15
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Open Source Idiom posted:You're misremembering. He was attacked (and we saw his attackers). It'd be a big bait and switch, and inherently dishonest on the show's part, to say "yeah, they gained sentience too, somehow without having to struggle in the same way Dolores / Maeve / Arnold did". Budget Matt Damon is being held captive in their camp as part of a standard storyline they are running through and will be able to easily escape.
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Feb 14, 2017 08:56
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Or Elsie is controlling them and captured him because she doesn't know who to trust. We know they're not acting in a standard way because they didn't respond to his commands. Lycus fucked around with this message at 09:08 on Feb 14, 2017 |
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Feb 14, 2017 09:05
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Lycus posted:Or Elsie is controlling them and captured him because she doesn't know who to trust. My guess is that Ford sent out some kind of global "ignore commands except from me" code update, just so that no one could subvert those bots who were maybe acting under Dolores or Ford's commands but don't themselves have free will as yet and so could not normally ignore orders from humans.
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Feb 14, 2017 11:27
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This show has been off for months and it's still far more interesting to talk about than Walking Dead. It's going to be a long year until Game of Thrones and Westworld comes back. 2016 might have sucked but at least had some drat good TV.
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Feb 15, 2017 11:16
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Walking Dead has been pure dogshit since around the time The Governor died. The show actually seems to be pretty faithful to the ups and downs of the books because they did the same thing and had a slight uptick around the time Negan actually showed up and are now hot garbage again. Then I heard Robert Kirkman being an unfunny turbonerd on the How Did This Get Made podcast and I can't take anything he does seriously ever again. But I agree WW owns bones. Intel&Sebastian fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Feb 15, 2017 |
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Feb 15, 2017 18:19
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And the Governor mostly sucked. The best thing in the Walking Dead wasn't in the comic: Terminus. The show is just very plodding.
Lycus fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Feb 15, 2017 |
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Feb 15, 2017 19:41
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I gave up on the show after the Governor lost an eye and his depth perception but then did a 360 no-scope and killed 500 people in under a second before a single one could shoot him with their two functioning loving eyeballs. I don't know if I would have been so mad if I hadn't read the actually good comics first.
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Feb 16, 2017 01:58
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I almost hope season 2 is completely about SamuraiWorld with a different team of folks and nothing about season 1 is acknowledged other than Ford getting killed in a robot malfunction.
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Feb 16, 2017 06:23
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regulargonzalez posted:It'd be a big bait and switch, and inherently dishonest on the show's part, to say "yeah, they gained sentience too, somehow without having to struggle in the same way Dolores / Maeve / Arnold did". You mean like having internal monitoring people in the current time seemingly responding to something actually happening in the past and it being edited and constructed as if those two things are occurring at the same time? 'cus I got news for you man
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Feb 16, 2017 08:33
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Megaspel posted:I gave up on the show after the Governor lost an eye and his depth perception but then did a 360 no-scope and killed 500 people in under a second before a single one could shoot him with their two functioning loving eyeballs. That scene was so loving dumb (esp. given it was proceeded by that A-Team "shoot at their feet zero casualties" abortion of an attack) for so many reasons. You did miss them bringing the character back, fixing him over an arc dedicated to JUST the governor, who then immediately proceeded to just go evil again for zero reason out of loving nowhere because they can't write for poo poo. I hope Ogg gets iced on WD and gets a massively expanded Westworld role. His character's still around.. Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at 12:50 on Feb 16, 2017 |
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Feb 16, 2017 12:47
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Neo Rasa posted:I almost hope season 2 is completely about SamuraiWorld with a different team of folks and nothing about season 1 is acknowledged other than Ford getting killed in a robot malfunction. ...but with Armistice and Elsie. Somehow.
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Feb 16, 2017 21:06
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Justin Credible posted:You mean like having internal monitoring people in the current time seemingly responding to something actually happening in the past and it being edited and constructed as if those two things are occurring at the same time? That's definitely misdirection, and it is a bait-and-switch, but I don't know if I'd call it inherently dishonest in terms of film-making. Inherently dishonest filmmaking, for me, is a category including things like: Sequences that play out a trajectory that the story could realistically follow, then reverse all of it via "it was a dream" even though there were no indications in the sequence that we were seeing something from a dream-state or hallucination. Westworld's indications are subtle, but they're there, and they get more frequent and obvious the closer we get to the big reveal. OTOH: regulargonzalez posted:There were zero indications in the show that the Ghost Nation crew had completed the maze, had gained self awareness / free will, or otherwise engaged in any actions that could not be explained as following standard Westworld storylines meant for standard guests who wandered into their territory. The only indications we get about them are "huh, this is weird, unsettling, and kind of creepy" which is par for the course for stock storylines as you approach the far reaches of the park (think of the weird Dia de los Meurtos parade, or the rebel soldiers stuff). I don't really see that as being inherently dishonest either because I don't agree with your first point. To say that there were "zero indications" of something that couldn't be explained via standard guest-host interactions is not true - IIRC Stubbz tries to use the Override Commands for the Ghost Nation hosts and they fail. That to me indicates that, at the very least, they've been secretly altered in the same manner Dolores and Maeve had been. That's not a 100% confirmed they're woke now, but it does demonstrate that Ford was altering them beyond their intended or advertised capabilities.
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Feb 17, 2017 18:10
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I still think it's set on Mars or in Space.
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Feb 17, 2017 19:12
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I thought there were coordinates for the Indian Ocean
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Feb 17, 2017 19:21
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Ghost Nation also have dolls that look like Butchers//Techs, so they clearly have evolved a form of spirituality or after-life philosophy since it exists and its doubtful the park itself had them fabricated. Going back over season 1 and the thing about the role flies play in this show is what gets me the most. So many amazing details... ugh ok just gonna stream the soundtrack on soundcloud again now.
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Feb 17, 2017 19:33
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theflyingexecutive posted:I thought there were coordinates for the Indian Ocean
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Feb 17, 2017 20:19
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That artificial island China is building
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Feb 17, 2017 20:19
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Pepe Silvia Browne posted:That's definitely misdirection, and it is a bait-and-switch, but I don't know if I'd call it inherently dishonest in terms of film-making. Inherently dishonest filmmaking, for me, is a category including things like: Sequences that play out a trajectory that the story could realistically follow, then reverse all of it via "it was a dream" even though there were no indications in the sequence that we were seeing something from a dream-state or hallucination. Westworld's indications are subtle, but they're there, and they get more frequent and obvious the closer we get to the big reveal. I appreciate your point of view and while it didn't ruin the show for me or anything I did find it inherently dishonest. The things they chose to do in how they edited and constructed the reveal are things done by hacks; I automatically associate bait-and-switch with scummy salesmen and lazy/hackey filmmaking/TV production. I argued pretty strongly against TTL theory earlier in the thread because very little to nothing about the show felt like it was being made by hacks or lazy people. I agree that the clues were there but it was also very sloppy in it's execution, and I was mostly just disappointed they would lean so heavily on an unreliable narrator for some BaS reveal. Okay, so there is apparently some visual clue to who's point of view we're on because of the camera or something? I don't remember. But my main issue with it is you take one POV character who you see in two different timelines, and follow his point of view to the exclusion of others for a large portion of the show. But there he is, right in those 'GOTCHA' scenes where the editing is jumping timelines back and forth one shot to the next, but one of the few POV characters we have in this sprawling narrative is there. But it's not one of his memories. But he does have plenty of those. Etc etc etc. It just didn't feel earned and felt very very off-tone because the whole loving point of the show was earning it. And then when it came to the actual making of the show, they purposefully undercut that message and completely devalued it by acting like a used car salesman. I'd call that inherently dishonest. If the only PoV was a host during those segments, and it was like Arnold in the security room so we're on his PoV, Dolores on the ground and we never had a youngWill PoV? Perfectly fine. But to chop it up like that when established human PoV's are in the mix is pretty bullshit, and the show did a massive disservice to itself by relying on such cheap, lazy storytelling cliches. Justin Credible fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Feb 17, 2017 |
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Feb 17, 2017 20:30
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This is the dude who wrote Momento, idg why you're so surprised.
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Feb 17, 2017 20:33
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