|
This is why, on top of everything else, Mrs. Takato is my favorite character. Just... wow. Thank you for the excellent LP, SGF! Also, in case anyone didn't see, update on the previous page.
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2017 06:18
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 08:10 |
|
|
And here is the weird part, Hisako in the second day sees herself holding the head of the alien god, and the older one gives the head to her. I guess the collapse of the Inferno caused a bit of a time loup.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2017 06:19
|
|
|
I think Kyouya was asking for your email address in that chat window.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2017 06:25
|
|
|
While I remember, the disc icon on Kyoya's section of the website that leads you to a 404? That was a download for a screensaver. It would flash up images from the game with the occasional burst of static, while it showed the current time on a clock designed to look like the in-game clock shown in cutscenes. You can probably still find it around if you look, it was pretty cool.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2017 06:31
|
|
|
So, I still don't understand some things. What's the meaning of the red sea? I don't see where red water comes into play when we're talking about fishbug alien cannibalism. Getting cursed, sure, but shibito-fication and especially the mud people kinda seem strangely unrelated. Why do the people become bug monsters? What was up with Hisako's vision? What was it a vision of? What is Inferno supposed to be? The few Japanese book pages in Kyoya's bit in the promotional site mentioned something about other worlds or alternate dimensions or something. How does a fishbug alien get caught up in alternative dimensions, anyway? What is the Mana Cross? Why is it shaped that way? Is it meaningful, or just something meant to look vaguely religious? What went wrong during the ceremony in 1976? Why did it fail? Did it fail? What was the red water, ultimately? I know that it was apparently some sort of liquid crystal structure, but was that ever expanded on? Is it implied to be supernatural or something? Why did Datatsushi react so badly to sunlight? It seems to be fine (by which I mean not on fire) in the 600s. What the gently caress is Uryen and the blue fire? It just seems like total deus ex machina and doesn't really have any sort of explanation. Ugh, a stable time loop? Seriously? This isn't a real question, it's just kinda  to me.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2017 06:32
|
|
|
Could we please just ditch the spoiler tags since it's end game? It was good a thing for the posts immediately following the update to have them but they're going to make discussion a pain in the rear end. Anyway, these I can respond to off the top of my head: Pollyanna posted:Why do the people become bug monsters? Because Datatsushi is a bug monster, I guess. Getting closer to their insectoid god makes people more insect-like. Pollyanna posted:What is the Mana Cross? Why is it shaped that way? Is it meaningful, or just something meant to look vaguely religious? The mana cross is the kanji 生, which means life or birth, flipped upside-down. So it's got that symbolic subtext to it, referring to the eerie unlife that the shibito lead.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2017 06:55
|
|
|
I feel like I'm posting too much in the thread (if so, tell me to shut up), but I can answer a couple of those questions: The Mana Cross is presumably part of the ship or whatever that Datatsushi arrived on. Watch the 764 A.D. cutscene again, you can see it lying on something in the shape of the Mana Cross. The 1976 ceremony I think is explained in supplementary materials (no surprise there). Apparently it was Akira's son who interrupted it and was responsible for the failure. He was infected with the red water, but before he could turn, he told the girl he rescued to place him somewhere he wouldn't hurt anyone. Remember that unexplained body in the basement of the clinic with the stake in it? Yeah, say hi, Shimura Jr.! The red water I believe is supposed to be the blood of Datatsushi. Why there's a literal ocean of it is anyone's guess, but it's been down there regenerating for a long time, so... divine run-off? I'm working off stuff I remember from waaaaaaayyyy back in the day, so apologies if I've got anything mixed up or wrong.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2017 06:58
|
|
|
I would normally think that people would be near to death and basically non-functional from thirst after three days without drinking, but given that almost everybody who lasted that long was dosed with red water, I'm wondering if the beginning of the process that grants eternal unlife to the shibito is sustaining them past human need for such things as 'water'. It's a little harder to track why Harumi is still functional at all, unless we assume just getting rained on is enough to stretch out human endurance some.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2017 07:39
|
|
|
There were pieces of wood in the shape of a mana cross (which doesn't look like an inverted 生 to me, but I'm no expert on kanji) under the alien while they were lunching on its innards, outside that pyramid-shaped rock/space-time craft. Could be random parts of a structure smashed in the crash landing, and accidentally became a symbol via the importance of the event, or it could be they already used that symbol in whatever practices they had before, thus: 1) you pray for food, 2) creature falls on your holy symbol, 3) creature must therefore be food from gods. As for bug gods, red water, shibitoization, etc. - for all we know the bug alien is a trash hauler from an interdimensional travel capable society, and his garbage space-time craft full of highly advanced, highly toxic, highly mutagenic waste suffered a breakdown and he crashed on some backwater dimension/planet. The natives ate parts of him, which is a pain as regenerating takes forever without all the advanced facilities in civilized dimensions, and the toxic spill has made him severely UV-sensitive in the meantime. Plus they jacked some parts from his craft, including his personal weapons (hey, trash hauling goes through some dangerous areas), and banged them all up to make dolls and pointy implements. It's nigh impossible to find any that can even barely (telepathically) communicate, so they're constantly screwing up my orders to fix my stuff. tl;dr - for Hanuda, alien bug god's arrival was a massive historical event; for the alien it was probably just another Tuesday; albeit a lovely one. Or a host of other possible reasons, mystical, magical or technological; the motivations of the alien god and exact mechanics regarding the red water are probably better left as a mystery by the writers.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2017 07:40
|
|
|
dont worry harumi gets a unhappy ending in siren 2
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2017 07:46
|
|
|
Oh hey, I was JOKING when I was saying Tamon was totally not a shibito! I didn't actually EXPECT him to be more or less okay! I mean, he's still hallucinating his parents as being alive so he's not 100% but he's not a shibito like I was expecting.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2017 08:05
|
|
|
It's probably notable that Tamon not being a shibito and Reiko saving Harumi happen to coincide with the moment Kyoya decapitates shrimp-god. Also, is it too big a leap to assume that the thing Miyako was smashing the day before Datatsushi's head, and this is why the ritual doesn't work? Meaning that Kyoya had absolutely nothing to do with screwing up the ritual and also that the loving time loop makes no sense from any conception of linear time? Is this why the story is told out of chronological order?
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2017 08:11
|
|
|
Question: who was that desiccated corpse in the secret hospital basement that handed over the Uryen?
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2017 08:33
|
|
oh yes oh god yes form the head FORM THE HEAD unghhhh...
|
thanks for the lp sgf, and some plot explanation. i never put together the time loop thing with hisako, what the gently caress. one thing i noticed, im pretty sure hisako was pregnant in that cutscene for 684 AD, does that imply SHE is an ancestor for the kajiro line? that would make miyako's immunity to being shibitized make sense. IronSaber posted:Question: who was that desiccated corpse in the secret hospital basement that handed over the Uryen? she's the miyako kajiro from 1976. its explained outside the game: basically, back in 1976 hisako, living as a maid named sumiko hosed up her own ritual by allowing miyako to escape. she only remembered her true role to datatsushi after it was too late, so then she put miyako deep in the hospital to "keep her safe". if youre hoping this would be explained better, so do i.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2017 09:09
|
|
|
Loved your timeline summary, it was hilarious: "Also busy is Akira, who is dead."
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2017 10:18
|
|
|
Flac posted:she's the miyako kajiro from 1976. its explained outside the game: basically, back in 1976 hisako, living as a maid named sumiko hosed up her own ritual by allowing miyako to escape. she only remembered her true role to datatsushi after it was too late, so then she put miyako deep in the hospital to "keep her safe". if youre hoping this would be explained better, so do i. Incorrect. See: Kaboom Dragoon posted:The 1976 ceremony I think is explained in supplementary materials (no surprise there). Apparently it was Akira's son who interrupted it and was responsible for the failure. He was infected with the red water, but before he could turn, he told the girl he rescued to place him somewhere he wouldn't hurt anyone. Remember that unexplained body in the basement of the clinic with the stake in it? Yeah, say hi, Shimura Jr.! You're right about the rest of it; Hisako's been alive for so long that she's a little crazy and sometimes forgets exactly who she is and what her real goals are, getting so into her current "role" that she even once (1976) helped screw over her actual plan.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2017 10:36
|
|
|
Thank you for LPing this game, SGF. It was a fascinating experience! On Datatsushi's name: All words/names/etc in Japanese phonetics are constructed out of syllables that have a consonant (either one or two letters in Latin script) and a vowel, and the pronunciations of these are consistent. So that said, the way to pronounce Datatsushi is: "Da-ta-tsu-shi". I'd like to think that Tamon was following the example of the other buried villagers that 'resisted the siren's call', considering he somehow managed to retain humanity somehow for 'several days'. Also seems all the more pertinent, considering none of the Shibito he ran into during his last level were non-hostile. Maybe hearing them call out to him gave him the will to do so? Seems like his parents' remains were maybe a bit more benevolent than Yoriko's reaction would indicate.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2017 11:32
|
|
|
That Datatsushi fight looks unbelievably aggravating. I can't stand those gun controls in this game, and that just seems a bit much. Really glad to finally see the end of this game though, thanks for doing such a fantastic LP on it!
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2017 11:39
|
|
|
Shoeless posted:This is why, on top of everything else, Mrs. Takato is my favorite character. Just... wow. Man, remember when you accidentally spoiled this plot twist four months ago? I was on the edge of my seat whether I had interpreted that correctly.  The ending was kind of a mixed bag. Harumi's sections in particular were some of the best parts of the game. It really just turns plot-wise into a big mess after the shrimp god appears, though. MissEchelon posted:That Datatsushi fight looks unbelievably aggravating. I can't stand those gun controls in this game, and that just seems a bit much. Really glad to finally see the end of this game though, thanks for doing such a fantastic LP on it! Yeah, the last two boss fights seem pretty terrible.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2017 11:45
|
|
|
OK so seeing as the alien god is an immortal being that is capable of regenerating in an alternate dimension, is the stable time loop the only way to remove its influence from the world going forward? Just chopping its head off and leaving it in the alternate dimension seems like it would be a recipe for the whole thing happening again.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2017 13:23
|
|
|
Flac posted:thanks for the lp sgf, and some plot explanation. i never put together the time loop thing with hisako, what the gently caress. Yes. Ostensibly Hisako herself is a valid sacrifice to resurrect Datatsushi and she offers her Life force to regenerate him at the end. So, SGF talked about it, but they obviously aged the characters for the US Version. Kyoya is 16 instead of 20 in the Japanese Version, Miyako is 14. Edit: The closed Time Loop is a paradox anyway, I think. It's not only about Hisakos Vision of herself receiving the head.. They had the head before the vision happened at the beginning of the game, Miyako crushed it.. Hisako and the head end up in two different points of time, one is the vision, and one is before 1976. They need the head for the first ritual as well. quote:The old Hisako, Datatsushi and a box containing the head float down a river and were sighted by the people of Hanuda in the past, leading to a myth involving them So in the end, the Alien God is trapped in a Paradox, forever alive. Jack-Off Lantern fucked around with this message at 13:41 on Feb 18, 2017 |
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2017 13:33
|
|
|
Great LP sgf, the chronological summary this episode was especially nice. And, since I didn't say it months ago, Realms of the Haunting was fantastic as well. I have a couple questions to anyone: What was the deal with the Kajiro's, i.e. why are they the keys to the whole alien god business? Is it supposed to be implied that one (or two) of the people eating the alien was a Kajiro? Also, holy poo poo i had forgotten about that pov flashback. What's the deal with the Uryen? Is that ever elaborated on? Why did Shiro kill Mina? I guess she was pregnant with his kid but that's not really an acceptable motive.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2017 14:09
|
|
|
It'd be really nice if a Siren 2 LP could happen, though understandably it'd need to go along with someone translating. Maybe Egomaniac can do a redux of his Siren 2 LP like he did with his Siren 1 LP, but given how long the latter needed a hiatus I doubt he's jumping at the chance to do 2 again.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2017 14:26
|
|
|
Grouchy Fish posted:What was the deal with the Kajiro's, i.e. why are they the keys to the whole alien god business? Is it supposed to be implied that one (or two) of the people eating the alien was a Kajiro? Also, holy poo poo i had forgotten about that pov flashback. The Uryen, possibly, are part of Datatsushis Ship or himself. They also use the life force of the user to summon the fire, Shiro using his didn't end well. Kyoya is immortal, tho. Edit: Congratulations, Yomoda Harumi for getting out!  All the people you loved are dead! Again! Even Missus Takato who was a mother figure to you. And you got super traumatised watching people getting killed, Aliens existing and reality collapsing into an alternate Dimension. Glad you got out tho, girl. Jack-Off Lantern fucked around with this message at 15:04 on Feb 18, 2017 |
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2017 14:26
|
|
|
pun pundit posted:OK so seeing as the alien god is an immortal being that is capable of regenerating in an alternate dimension, is the stable time loop the only way to remove its influence from the world going forward? Just chopping its head off and leaving it in the alternate dimension seems like it would be a recipe for the whole thing happening again. Yeah, it seems that from the perspective of anyone else, the time loop doesn't exist (ok, it does for Hisako, but I don't know what happens to white-haired Hisako after giving the head back). So the only one continuously looping is the head of Datatsushi, giving it a hell of unending torture to be repeatedly summoned, burned by sunlight, burned again by the Uryen, and then decapitated. Forever and ever. Could this be Hisako's revenge for the curse of immortality/shibitofication/mud people that Datatsushi inflicted on her village?
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2017 15:06
|
|
|
I cheered so hard when Yoriko busted in with her baseball bat. Great LP, SGF, thank you!
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2017 15:12
|
|
|
Grouchy Fish posted:Why did Shiro kill Mina? I guess she was pregnant with his kid but that's not really an acceptable motive. Shiro apparently really hates himself, and by extension any part of himself that might linger on, like children. Also, he's batshit. He can't imagine being a father, and seems like he either panicked or went cold psycho when he heard. In any other game, he'd absolutely be the bad guy, but here he's the villain you turn lose on the real big bad, and in the process he finds a kind of redemption. Shiro's line about not wanting to be a monster sticks out to me, because it can be interpreted two ways. He seems to be saying that he doesn't want to turn into a shibito, but then he assumes Kei's life. So I see it as Shiro being aware that he's absolutely an awful person for what he's done, and becoming a different person gives him a chance to do better. But he still has to kill his brother to do that, but that's okay, because it's really "Shiro" that's dying. "Kei" lives on! marshmallow creep fucked around with this message at 15:30 on Feb 18, 2017 |
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2017 15:26
|
|
|
Kojiro posted:I cheered so hard when Yoriko busted in with her baseball bat. Great LP, SGF, thank you! And here everyone had been calling her useless. Now she and PROFESSAH can have anthropology adventures in Hell forever.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2017 15:31
|
|
|
Gully Foyle posted:Yeah, it seems that from the perspective of anyone else, the time loop doesn't exist (ok, it does for Hisako, but I don't know what happens to white-haired Hisako after giving the head back). So the only one continuously looping is the head of Datatsushi, giving it a hell of unending torture to be repeatedly summoned, burned by sunlight, burned again by the Uryen, and then decapitated. Forever and ever. Could this be Hisako's revenge for the curse of immortality/shibitofication/mud people that Datatsushi inflicted on her village? Datatsushi is kind of hilariously weak god despite the whole shibito thing that it can inflict on people. It arrived/crash landed on the backwoods of medieval Japan and promptly got itself eaten by starving villagers. It took over a millenia to be able to resurrect itself, probably because its immortal servant has a tendency to forget her mission. And when it does finally wake up, it almost immediately got burned by sunlight and decapitated by Kyoya. And I agreed, the Homuragi and the Uryen is a deus ex machina, almost literally. It's two divine weapons that's capable of killing an alien god that just happened is around in Hanuda.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2017 15:44
|
|
|
flatluigi posted:It'd be really nice if a Siren 2 LP could happen, though understandably it'd need to go along with someone translating. Maybe Egomaniac can do a redux of his Siren 2 LP like he did with his Siren 1 LP, but given how long the latter needed a hiatus I doubt he's jumping at the chance to do 2 again. Siren 2 was released in English so it wouldn't need translating, it got released in PAL territories. So SGF would either need access to a PAL PS2, mod a PS2 or run it through an emulator. Or hope Sony release it as a PS2 Classic for PS4 worldwide.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2017 15:44
|
|
|
davidHalestorm posted:Datatsushi is kind of hilariously weak god despite the whole shibito thing that it can inflict on people. It arrived/crash landed on the backwoods of medieval Japan and promptly got itself eaten by starving villagers. It took over a millenia to be able to resurrect itself, probably because its immortal servant has a tendency to forget her mission. And when it does finally wake up, it almost immediately got burned by sunlight and decapitated by Kyoya. Well, you know, an alien religion that arrives and establishes itself as an apocalyptic death cult of resurrection happening to lose to ancient Japanese spirits and magic seems like it might be significant.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2017 15:46
|
|
|
Was any explanation ever given for the presence of sightjacking, btw? There's occasional mentions of ESP and such, but it never really covers why everyone can do it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2017 15:51
|
|
|
Mr. Fortitude posted:Siren 2 was released in English so it wouldn't need translating, it got released in PAL territories. So SGF would either need access to a PAL PS2, mod a PS2 or run it through an emulator. Or hope Sony release it as a PS2 Classic for PS4 worldwide. Wait, really? I swear Egomaniac's Siren 2 LP was in Japanese? Am I misremembering?
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2017 15:59
|
|
|
Kojiro posted:Was any explanation ever given for the presence of sightjacking, btw? There's occasional mentions of ESP and such, but it never really covers why everyone can do it. I always figured it was a result of slowly turning into a Shibito. They can link into the hive mind Datasushi is instilling in his hive-mates. I doubt that's the official explanation but it'd make sense to me.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2017 16:02
|
|
|
Night10194 posted:Well, you know, an alien religion that arrives and establishes itself as an apocalyptic death cult of resurrection happening to lose to ancient Japanese spirits and magic seems like it might be significant. poo poo, actually, I can kinda see this. Eating the body of the alien, red water that fucks you up signifying its blood, the resurrection being a major component of the legend, the cross, the fish theming, the covert secrecy of the Hanudan religion, it does seem like a bit of a metaphor for the propagation of Catholicism in Japan and subsequent oppression/eradication. I don't know where stable time loops and being turned into bug monsters come into play here, but eh, close enough.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2017 16:02
|
|
|
^^ Yeah, Siren 2 is definitely translated to English but there's no charming British voice acting, unfortunately. Night10194 posted:Well, you know, an alien religion that arrives and establishes itself as an apocalyptic death cult of resurrection happening to lose to ancient Japanese spirits and magic seems like it might be significant. Good point, Datatsushi, represented by the Mana Cross and its western-style clergy is defeated by the katana and a clay figure of a war god, representation of native Japanese spirituality.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2017 16:05
|
|
|
Night10194 posted:I always figured it was a result of slowly turning into a Shibito. They can link into the hive mind Datasushi is instilling in his hive-mates. Harumi can sightjack though and she's 0% shibito? Though she's kinda psychic. Maybe it's just part of that dimension? Up to the recap part of the video now, seriously lovely work here.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2017 16:22
|
|
|
flatluigi posted:Wait, really? I swear Egomaniac's Siren 2 LP was in Japanese? Am I misremembering? DMorbid fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Feb 18, 2017 |
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2017 16:31
|
|
|
Shoeless posted:Incorrect. See: No you're thinking of the mummy with the stake in it. Miyako was the skeletal corpse looking woman bound to the wall who hands Shiro the uryen in the second objective for the same level the mummy's in. She's like that because she has Kajiro blood, meaning she's not a shibito but she's forced to be immortal in the alien god world, and being stuck to a wall for 27 years won't do favors for your appearance. Akira's son, Takafumi Shimura, is a mummy because he was turning into a shibito, and in order to make sure he didn't escape and hurt anyone, he was wrapped up and had a stake driven into him to keep him from leaving that box. Pollyanna posted:I don't know where stable time loops and being turned into bug monsters come into play here, but eh, close enough. They turn into bug monsters to become closer to their bug god. There's a reason the human looking shibito are only "half-shibito", and the mud people are called "failed shibito". The red water really is like the food of the underworld, but not only does drinking it force you to be in the alien god dimension forever, but you assimilate and become unrecognizable from it (unless you have Kajiro blood). I think that mural of what paradise is in the religion shows Hanuda when it's completely assimilated to become the world of Datatsushi. Flac fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Feb 18, 2017 |
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2017 16:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 08:10 |
|
|
That recap part was everything i had hoped for, splendid work on that and the entire LP SGF. It... all actually kind of made sense in the end. Mostly. That's a rather pleasant surprise. Also that whole time-travel loop thing with the head totally slipped past me before you explicitly pointed it out. I think it's neat on a level where it mirrors the structure of actually playing the game - with failure repetition and "next loops" and all. But man does it make trying to figure out the actual progression a pain in the rear end, as if alternate dimensions and ageless characters and multiple mission objectives "completed" wasn't enough already. The part about Hisiko sending Tomoko into a house to die, where is that sourced from? Was that just mentioned in some dev interview/additional material or is that just a fan theory?
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2017 16:49
|
|
