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NecroMonster posted:It's extremely difficult to "out speed" a precog, as things like reaction speed effectively don't matter. You've got to out speed the nerve impulses themselves. It's much slower. Even if brain signals travel at the speed of light, muscles don't.
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Feb 18, 2017 09:35
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NecroMonster posted:It's extremely difficult to "out speed" a precog, as things like reaction speed effectively don't matter. You've got to out speed the nerve impulses themselves. Actually your brain only works at about 300ms and it's even slower with sending and receiving input from nerves 
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Feb 18, 2017 09:36
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yeah, after i said that i did the math and it's a lot slower than i thought. You've still probably got to outspeed the nerve singnals by a solid bit, but All Might could have probably done it.
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Feb 18, 2017 09:51
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The point isn't to move faster than his reactions, dummies. It's to move so fast that even if he literally reacts instantly, in 0ms, he can't get out of the way because his body simply cannot move fast enough compared to Deku.
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Feb 18, 2017 13:01
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Slime posted:The point isn't to move faster than his reactions, dummies. It's to move so fast that even if he literally reacts instantly, in 0ms, he can't get out of the way because his body simply cannot move fast enough compared to Deku. Problem with that strategy is deku has the same nerve limits as sir.
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Feb 18, 2017 14:18
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Condiv posted:Problem with that strategy is deku has the same nerve limits as sir. But not the same muscle limits.
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Feb 18, 2017 17:09
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Besides, prediction isn't as amazing as movies, anime and manga like to make it out to be, not unless you get the secondary ability to speed up your mental processes enough to deal with it and even then it's still not going to be as amazing as presented. If Mike Tyson told me he was going to punch me with his right fist when it reaches zero on a countdown clock and I can try to dodge all I want within the confines of a small room, I will still get hit no matter how I try to dodge or move around in the room! Presuming that he wasn't underestimating me and even if he was, I wouldn't be able to avoid the second followup. And the specs difference between me and Tyson is much smaller than the gap Deku should have to a physically fit but otherwise normal human in Sir.
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Feb 18, 2017 17:51
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I remember a minor villain in Soul Eater who had the prediction power. After explaining it he instantly surrendered. Stating he saw that he had no chance of victory.
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Feb 18, 2017 18:01
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ChronoReverse posted:Besides, prediction isn't as amazing as movies, anime and manga like to make it out to be, not unless you get the secondary ability to speed up your mental processes enough to deal with it and even then it's still not going to be as amazing as presented. In a match between people of similar skill and physical capability, prediction is a complete and utter game changer. I'd imagine Sir has trained a lot in terms of using his predictions and getting out of the way, but is it enough to actually make a difference when it comes to the ridiculously fast heroes that exist? I'd say his prediction power is actually a lot more useful for helping his fellow heroes rather than him using it directly on enemies. It's a lot easier to make eye and hand contact on someone who's letting you, and then he can use the predictions of what his buddy will do in order to help them.
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Feb 18, 2017 19:16
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MonsterEnvy posted:I remember a minor villain in Soul Eater who had the prediction power. After explaining it he instantly surrendered. Stating he saw that he had no chance of victory. Yeah, that's kind of how I've been interpreting Sir's power so far. He gets a detailed run-down of everything that the target will do for the next hour rather than immediate foreknowledge of what they're doing RIGHT NOW--whether it adjusts itself to any actions taken to change "fate" on behalf of the user is unclear.
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Feb 18, 2017 20:02
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ChronoReverse posted:Besides, prediction isn't as amazing as movies, anime and manga like to make it out to be This is a manga
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Feb 18, 2017 20:06
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if you think prediction is silly in manga you should check out a western superhero comic book sometime
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Feb 18, 2017 20:43
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ChronoReverse posted:Besides, prediction isn't as amazing as movies, anime and manga like to make it out to be, Yes please tell me how this enhanced super power version of a vague concept works in the real world instead of these super hero comics because this is definitely not a thread for a super hero comics.
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Feb 18, 2017 21:16
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MHA does somewhat goes a little further into establishing more realistic/plausible limits to what these powers can do. "Oh I can punch really hard!? OW MY SHOULDER!"
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Feb 18, 2017 21:27
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NecroMonster posted:It's extremely difficult to "out speed" a precog, as things like reaction speed effectively don't matter. You've got to out speed the nerve impulses themselves. deku runs at increidbly hihg sspeed
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Feb 18, 2017 22:30
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Quirks are grounded and realistic in the same way that stands are in JoJo. Which is to say that they aren't, at all, and any explanations are just technobabble.
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Feb 18, 2017 22:34
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Raenir Salazar posted:MHA does somewhat goes a little further into establishing more realistic/plausible limits to what these powers can do. "Oh I can punch really hard!? OW MY SHOULDER!" It also repeatedly reinforces the idea that to be a great hero requires extensive training to be at peak physical + mental condition and complete quirk mastery. Like how Aizawa is basically a regular human against anyone with a permanent physical transformation, but you know he'd still be a match for most of them. Deku might be fast and strong but this guy probably had plenty of practice with All Might. Deku is only going to beat him if he does something which All Might wouldn't have done.
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Feb 18, 2017 22:38
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Piriwi posted:Deku is only going to beat him if he does something which All Might wouldn't have done. Weird, it's almost like this opponent is perfectly suited to test him nearly immediately following the development of his new fighting style.
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Feb 18, 2017 22:57
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Condiv posted:Problem with that strategy is deku has the same nerve limits as sir. Does he tho? OFA can possibly enhance any part of the user. Somehow it snapped deku out of mind control and allmight could use it to pump up his looks after being emaciated
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Feb 18, 2017 23:18
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Elfgames posted:Does he tho? OFA can possibly enhance any part of the user. Somehow it snapped deku out of mind control and allmight could use it to pump up his looks after being emaciated Plus since the person with OFA has super speed and we haven't seen All Might or Deku just running into/through things all willy nilly, the implication is that their reaction and comprehension speeds are quite elevated.
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Feb 19, 2017 00:25
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Elfgames posted:Does he tho? OFA can possibly enhance any part of the user. Somehow it snapped deku out of mind control and allmight could use it to pump up his looks after being emaciated gently caress knew someone was gonna bring up the mind control thing
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Feb 19, 2017 00:27
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I imagine that Sir's foresight is so good that he can basically see what you're going to do from a mile away, and start moving to counter your attack before the idea to attack actually comes to your mind. So I think it's less a matter of moving faster than he can avoid, and more trying to predict in advance where he has to move in order to evade your attack, in order to force him into a corner where, even if he can predict what you're doing, it doesn't matter, because he can only do one or two things, and at that point it becomes a physical contest.
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Feb 19, 2017 02:13
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JT Jag posted:I imagine that Sir's foresight is so good that he can basically see what you're going to do from a mile away, and start moving to counter your attack before the idea to attack actually comes to your mind. He could still be out-sped this way, but you'd have to use a multi-hit combo. He might dodge the first one or two, but the speed at which the attacks come are faster than his speed dodging them.
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Feb 19, 2017 03:58
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Yeah you would need to chain enough actions quickly enough that knowing what they will be isn't much help. Which is basically what people have been saying with nerve reactions etc.
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Feb 19, 2017 04:06
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The idea of using foresight in this manner doesn't really make sense to begin with, since your opponent would change thier actions depending on your actions. So it would only really work until they took an action against their opponent. The only alternative is if it's the sort of foresight where they literally see the silhouette of where their opponent will be next, but that also wouldn't be good enough to deal with an opponent who is significantly faster. But none of this really matters because this is a manga and in manga foresight almost always translates to "always winning in fights unless a clever trick is used."
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Feb 19, 2017 05:30
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Who wins in a chess/shogi match, a Time Traveler who is always able to reset back to where he was at any point of the game or a psychic with telepathy able to predict your next four to five moves? I really want to see this match up in an anime at some point; but the current discussion reminds me of this; how OP something like "Foresight" is always is going to depend on how its implemented; "Moving faster than the person with foresight can react" is just the standard shounen/comic book victory condition; or just being so much stronger that it doesn't matter. Maybe it's being set up like that and we'll see it happen in a novel way as MHA's strength is playing the genre rather straight but in a refreshing way. Or maybe we'll see some other way of resolving it, like Deku's Hat is basically carefully observing peoples quirks and figuring out a work around. The option of "He can predict Deku but not something that isn't Deku" suggested seems like a good shot.
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Feb 19, 2017 06:17
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The other way to beat him is to put him in a situation where he chooses to lose. For example, if, in order to prevent an important item from being broken by Deku's flailing, he allows the stamp to become accessible long enough to force the paper onto it, he may choose to save the item and allow the stamp. It wouldn't be the easiest thing to do, though, and definitely relies on a better explanation of how exactly his quirk works. And, since it only lasts for an hour, you may be able to hide outcomes from him. Secretly get the paper stamped, act like you lost, and go ride the bus for an hour, and he won't know that he actually lost. Nalin fucked around with this message at 06:42 on Feb 19, 2017 |
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Feb 19, 2017 06:39
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NecroMonster posted:if you think prediction is silly in manga you should check out a western superhero comic book sometime Predicting isn't really a thing in western comics so why
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Feb 19, 2017 06:45
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Oh man he's totally gonna threaten the tapestry isn't he
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Feb 19, 2017 06:45
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Aurora posted:Oh man he's totally gonna threaten the tapestry isn't he ok yeah this is gonna be it
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Feb 19, 2017 06:51
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CharlestheHammer posted:Predicting isn't really a thing in western comics so why but my spidey senses are tingling
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Feb 19, 2017 06:53
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CharlestheHammer posted:Predicting isn't really a thing in western comics so why the last marvel event was all about precognition
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Feb 19, 2017 06:54
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Kild posted:but my spidey senses are tingling Manatee Cannon posted:the last marvel event was all about precognition And he was bad at it.
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Feb 19, 2017 06:59
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CharlestheHammer posted:Predicting isn't really a thing in western comics so why There've been a few folks who can do this. Cass Cain and Lady Shiva from DC, Mr. X from Marvel, and the Midnighter from The Authority. I think Clock King's got in on it at times, too.
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Feb 19, 2017 11:15
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I think Barbara Gordon picked up a version of that too very recently, but apparently she has to turn off conscious thought to do it or something.
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Feb 19, 2017 12:22
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My first thought was that episode of BtAS where Clock King outfought Batman, and his deal was just that he was a dude with a really good sense of timing. If you can buy that one, a dude with actual clairvoyance outfighting superpowered guys isn't quite so far-fetched.
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Feb 19, 2017 13:03
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Raenir Salazar posted:Who wins in a chess/shogi match, a Time Traveler who is always able to reset back to where he was at any point of the game or a psychic with telepathy able to predict your next four to five moves?
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Feb 19, 2017 13:07
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I sorta remember reading a writing prompt with a similar narrative, only with a mind reader and future reader instead.
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Feb 19, 2017 15:46
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What you just made an All Might face at was your future self...
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Feb 19, 2017 16:00
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I always thought Mistborn's handling of clashing precognitive powers was interesting. Oh so you can see what I'm going to do? We'll now I can too, and the feedback loop from our powers is going to create so many possible futures that neither of us will know what's going to happen. Or course, when powers are fueled by ingesting trace amounts of metal, it becomes a battle of attrition to see who runs out of their precog alloy first.
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Feb 19, 2017 16:05
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