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Grey Hunter posted:
25:1 odds not quite good enough it seems.
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Feb 17, 2017 07:07
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V for Vegas posted:25:1 odds not quite good enough it seems. Climbing to 20,000 ft takes a little while. The bombers were on em before they could get up there.
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Feb 17, 2017 07:18
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How "winnable" is China? That is to say, at what point are the Chinese completely neutered and Grey can just leave garrison forces? Where does the front line stop and how many forces would that free up (that I would then assume could be redirected to, say, India)?
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Feb 17, 2017 11:33
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gradenko_2000 posted:How "winnable" is China? A lot of occupied places require a garrison, which is abstracted as "Requires X amount of Assault Value in same hex". Not meeting that requirement basically results in a loss of VP per, iirc, and, according to the manual, possible damage to facilities in the hex (industry, airfield, port, etc). So, technically, you could just clear out all your units once they aren't needed in an area anymore. Access to India's constrained by the lack of roads and the short front. As for the front lengths, into India is small, but Russia/Mongolia is huge and runs from Vladivostok to Western Mongolia. Crudely, it would look like this, if Grey controlled China but hasn't fought Russia yet. 
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Feb 17, 2017 12:00
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If Hannibal could make it over the alps grey should be able to cross over the Himalayas.
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Feb 17, 2017 12:25
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:If Hannibal could make it over the alps grey should be able to cross over the Himalayas. Well, he could always modify the hexes...
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Feb 17, 2017 12:26
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Jobbo_Fett posted:As for the front lengths, into India is small, but Russia/Mongolia is huge and runs from Vladivostok to Western Mongolia. Would Grey need to cover that entire border though in practice?
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Feb 17, 2017 12:27
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gradenko_2000 posted:Would Grey need to cover that entire border though in practice? You'd want to cover the roads, which are relatively few, since the main Russian supply area is near Tannu Tuva, and I believe the reinforcements come through there. Not sure if they are limited on entering that border though...
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Feb 17, 2017 12:44
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In reality the soviet invasion was so incredibly successful because they avoided obvious roads and advanced in places where the Japanese assumed the soviets would be incapable of supplying.
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Feb 17, 2017 17:25
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Historically was walking an army east-west across Bangladesh in any way in the cards? That's some serious rivers to cross.
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Feb 17, 2017 17:44
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Don;t worry, if anything the Magniot line has taught us is that if you believe someone can't cross something, they bloody well can't/
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Feb 17, 2017 17:49
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aphid_licker posted:Historically was walking an army east-west across Bangladesh in any way in the cards? That's some serious rivers to cross. To be honest, wouldn't have been much of an issue for the Japanese. They had very useful tools like a folding boat that could carry 13~ men iirc. They were fairly lightweight and easy to build. In addition, their engineers were just as resourceful as the next at building bridges over rivers to aid with supply/logistics. As for any rivers that would be too large, those rivers would have boats, and it wouldnt be unreasonable to presume that boats could be ferried in some way to that location, depending on the river and its tributaries (or am I thinking of the other word?)
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Feb 17, 2017 18:04
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Mongolia is an awful place to try and cross if you need little things like paved or even dirt roads. If you can manage to get the fuel in for tanks though...
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Feb 17, 2017 21:08
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   I don't normally show it, but Koepang is attracting more and more enemy planes – so I've dispatched two more squadrons of fighters to defend it.   I need to clear out these fighters.  They are getting a little annoying.   ZZZZZ. Oh well, at least these reports are quick to make!  We get a very old kill confirmed.
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Feb 18, 2017 06:37
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I watched Obi Wan struggle to ride a motorbike across Mongolia so I assume it would be tough for everyone else
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Feb 18, 2017 08:02
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  I order our planes to sweep Efate. It goes.... poorly.  We take losses.  A fair few losses.  We get one or two kills, but nothing to even the odds.  Guess who's still in the area! Thankfully these ships are empty on the return run.  This could have been bad.   We suffer a rare defeat in China.   One Chinese unit has retreated so far they take on an ill prepared unit deep in Burma!  Some setbacks today – we even lost a base! (and planes)
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Feb 18, 2017 18:58
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When do you get some better fighters?
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Feb 18, 2017 19:16
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Sometime in the 1970s?
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Feb 18, 2017 19:25
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Leperflesh posted:When do you get some better fighters? I think at this point it's better pilots that are the issue.
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Feb 19, 2017 08:21
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Triggerhappypilot posted:I think at this point it's better pilots that are the issue. Well, Nates are absolute garbage, but Zeros seem to be easier to kill than they should imo. Kinda wish I had the ability to chat with the devs while going through their code to see why some combats are so hilariously one-sided at times.
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Feb 19, 2017 08:28
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Well, remember that by the end of the war, even the humble wildcat had some overall insanely lopsided win rates against Zeroes. The Zero only really had a field day early on, before US pilots figured out how to deal with it. And, you know, because the pilots flying them had actual combat experience. Even if it was shooting down poorly flown, poorly led Chinese aircraft, they'd still fired their guns in an actual combat situation.
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Feb 19, 2017 08:29
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Wow, New Caledonia + surrounds really is turning into our version of the Solomon Island campaign. The air combat does seem a bit lopsided though, I'd expect at least a few more enemy casualties
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Feb 19, 2017 08:35
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Night10194 posted:Well, remember that by the end of the war, even the humble wildcat had some overall insanely lopsided win rates against Zeroes. The Zero only really had a field day early on, before US pilots figured out how to deal with it. P-40s and P-43s are not Wildcats though, P-40B Warhawks, didn't even have self-sealing tanks, and only had 2 .50 cal MGs (+4 .30 cal guns). A6M3's didn't have self-sealing tanks either, but had a similar top speed. In-game terms, the A6M3 doesn't appear to have its historic rated top speed of 350 mph, which I have to double-check now to see what sources I have in my library state that rather than the game's 338 mph. In addition, the A6M3 has a maneuverability rating of 33. The P-40B has 19. The P-40 is more durable, but not by much, and their gun values are almost equal. The P-40 has a slight edge, which I think is surprising considering the A6M has cannons, albeit not as accurate as its machine guns.
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Feb 19, 2017 08:57
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I'd take the a6m3 over a p40b in IL2 any day. Something dumb is going on.
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Feb 19, 2017 09:05
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Splode posted:I'd take the a6m3 over a p40b in IL2 any day. Something dumb is going on. To play devil's advocate, it MAY be because of pilot proficiency, and WITP is weird about its air combat, in my opinion, but its also hard to determine what exactly the cause might be since we don't have a full combat log to show what happened. Maybe the zeros got bounced? What is the fatigue level of the pilots/squadrons involved? Still, yeah, I wouldn't want to be in a P-40B fighting an A6M3.
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Feb 19, 2017 09:08
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Well, Grey didn't get far enough last run to experience the difficulties of plane tech, so it makes sense he's behind on accelerating it. Also, the large bulk of experienced land based pilots are dead, so that is like a huge issue. I mean, look for the top aces list a few to several pages back. 60-70% were dead. Ever read about Roald Dahl's first sortie where he went all alone (no wingman to teach him on his first go, utterly retarded RAF policy over Greece and Africa) took down a bomber from straight behind its multiple rear and other guns? Imagine that. They're probably making some atrocious mistakes against allied Aces who are just getting better. On the bright side positive experience also applies to his carrier pilots. RA Rx fucked around with this message at 09:25 on Feb 19, 2017 |
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Feb 19, 2017 09:19
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Dead aces doesn't mean the squadron is inexperienced though. Pilots don't get recycled into the training programs, unless you actively do so, and US squadrons just get better over time regardless, it seems. The manual even states "When new units arrive as reinforcements, they will generally arrive with pilots that have experience levels based on their nationality and the year of arrival. While writing this I decided to check my Japanese demo playthrough, currently sitting in Feb '42. 15th KuS-1 has lost 12 pilots, none of which are aces. They have an average experience of 60, according to the squadron's info screen. Zuiho-1, on the other hand, has lost 3 pilots, 1 of which was an ace, and has an average of 77 experience. On the other hand, many of Zuiho's current pilots are aces, while 15th KuS-1 is mostly filled with rookies, and 0 aces. 15th KuS-1 also has twice the number of pilots. 15th KuS-1's commander is high on leadership and inspiration but has terrible land and naval stats, and low air stats. Aggression is middling. Zuiho-1's commander is above average in leadership and inspiration, has terrible land stats, good naval stats, and high air stats. Aggression is also high. Both commanders have similar admin stats. What this all means?  Hard to say as even the manual is light on details, but both squadrons use the same planes and fight in relatively the same areas, although Zuiho has had more opportunity for fights lately.Edit: If I took the top 16 pilots from 15th KuS-1 to compare to Zuiho-1's 16 pilots, 15th KuS-1 would have an average experience of 70. Jobbo_Fett fucked around with this message at 10:44 on Feb 19, 2017 |
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Feb 19, 2017 10:39
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enlightening.
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Feb 19, 2017 10:45
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Splode posted:enlightening. In ground combat, the ratios and how it affects combat are hosed. Let's say an attack has its Assault Value adjusted to an arbitrary number like 7. Meanwhile, the defender has an adjusted defense of 12. The combat ratio is thus 1-to-2 against the attacker. Seems fairly straightforward. The game rounds down fractions to get a clean ratio. This causes some issues though, as it ONLY rounds down, and therefore always punishes the attacker. So even if the attacking value was 11 to the defenders 12, they would still fight at a 1-to-2 ratio, and essentially be punished for it. Now, for such small numbers, it could be expected that this may represent the edge that being on the defensive may have. However, this breaks down when you have much larger force concentrations. Currently, I'm watching the Japanese attack with 1579 AV against the Chinese with an AV of 580. After modifications, the Japanese have 1464 AV. The Chinese have a DV of 765. 1464/765 = 1.913 Giving a combat ratio of... 1 to 1. And despite having over twice the infantry, 3 times the number of guns, and 262 vehicles to the Chinese's zero, they still lost twice as many men overall. (Although less destroyed squads, but that's besides the point)
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Feb 19, 2017 13:37
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Wasn't there also some bullshit regarding the height difference between planes where the engine gives absurd boni for diving down on enemy planes even if the physics involved would tear the frame apart? At least I remember something like that from Saros' LP.
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Feb 19, 2017 13:45
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Junkozeyne posted:Wasn't there also some bullshit regarding the height difference between planes where the engine gives absurd boni for diving down on enemy planes even if the physics involved would tear the frame apart? At least I remember something like that from Saros' LP. Yeah, height advantage confers a combat advantage, although I don't personally know how great it is. This makes sense, because ENERGY IS LIFE! but it doesn't appear to play well with other aspects of air-to-air combat. Sort of like how deathstack carrier groups will always get penetrated by Japanese aircraft even if they have hundreds of planes in the air. Edit: Or like how half a dozen planes will always manage to penetrate through the fighter cover of like 30 planes whose sole job is to ESCORT THE DANG BOMBERS! 
Jobbo_Fett fucked around with this message at 13:51 on Feb 19, 2017 |
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Feb 19, 2017 13:49
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Dead aces doesn't mean the squadron is inexperienced though. Pilots don't get recycled into the training programs, unless you actively do so, and US squadrons just get better over time regardless, it seems. Points taken, but the pilots as a group are probably not faring too well either. Dead top ace pilots would tend to stack up in a greater concentration than regular pilots, given that they see more combat, but it's a fairly good indicator a lot of experienced pilots are dying. I didn't start watching Grey's American game until it was in 1942, but I never saw an Ace list with anything near that many KIAs (I suppose it'd be worse early on though).
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Feb 19, 2017 15:35
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RA Rx posted:Points taken, but the pilots as a group are probably not faring too well either. Dead top ace pilots would tend to stack up in a greater concentration than regular pilots, given that they see more combat, but it's a fairly good indicator a lot of experienced pilots are dying. I didn't start watching Grey's American game until it was in 1942, but I never saw an Ace list with anything near that many KIAs (I suppose it'd be worse early on though). I was thinking maybe I missed something but... 15th KuS-1 has 4 pilots MIA (that are on the Pilot List, AKA 1+ Kill(s)), and another 8 KIA. If I'm reading the squadron page properly, they have had: 19 Pilots KIA 4 Pilots WIA 16 Pilots MIA Squadron morale is 98.
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Feb 19, 2017 16:10
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Night10194 posted:And, you know, because the pilots flying them had actual combat experience. Even if it was shooting down poorly flown, poorly led Chinese aircraft, they'd still fired their guns in an actual combat situation. It's worth noting that combat experience of any kind is invaluable for pilots. During Vietnam, for example, it was found that if a pilot survived their first five missions, they were very likely to survive the entire tour. But it was surviving those first missions that was the problem-even experienced pilots would freeze at their first sight of a MiG, and make costly errors that could quickly get them killed.
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Feb 19, 2017 17:31
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Which leads to operation red flag over the Nevada desert where us and Allied planes participate in simulated air combat to get those first 5 battles in
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Feb 19, 2017 17:40
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Jobbo_Fett posted:In ground combat, the ratios and how it affects combat are hosed. I thought AV was completely meaningless except for whether you hit that magical 2:1 ratio to force the enemy to retreat, because the game simulates combat down to the individual rifle squad or something idiotic like that, and comparing a pair of numbers is far too abstract for a grog game.
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Feb 19, 2017 17:47
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bunnyofdoom posted:Which leads to operation red flag over the Nevada desert where us and Allied planes participate in simulated air combat to get those first 5 battles in And, going even farther, the Red Eagles program, which used captured MiGs in aggressor roles to train pilots on how to fly against Soviet fighters and tactics.
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Feb 19, 2017 17:59
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Jobbo_Fett posted:I was thinking maybe I missed something but... Maybe all those causal ties were just the assholes and they were guiltily glad to be rid of them
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Feb 19, 2017 18:04
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  I seem to have problem losing planes at the moment....  This is a terrible showing from our carrier planes!  Thankfully, the CAP knows their job, and the allied planes never even see our ships.  The Vals' that got separated come in on their own. They take losses, but get some hits one one of the carriers.  The last wave arrives after the enemy CAP is out of ammo, and does a good amount of damage.  With two burning CVE's, I doubt those planes are getting home.  One of the ships wounded yesterday sinks.
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Feb 19, 2017 18:06
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Allied carrier just have the worst luck against Grey.
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Feb 19, 2017 18:09
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