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AlternateNu posted:Somebody make a list of cards that are absurdly powerful almost entirely due to the existence of fetch lands. Brainstorm, Fatal Push, Renegade Rallier, Death's Shadow, Leonin Arbiter, Shadow of Doubt, Stifle, Top, Ponder
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Feb 20, 2017 05:57
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AlternateNu posted:Somebody make a list of cards that are absurdly powerful almost entirely due to the existence of fetch lands. Knight of the Reliquary Everything with Delve
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Feb 20, 2017 05:58
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AlternateNu posted:Somebody make a list of cards that are absurdly powerful almost entirely due to the existence of fetch lands. brainstorm, grim lavamancer, knight of the reliquary, death shadow, all the delve spells,
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Feb 20, 2017 05:59
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AlternateNu posted:Somebody make a list of cards that are absurdly powerful almost entirely due to the existence of fetch lands. We'd be remiss, on page 1492, not to call out Treasure Cruise by name.
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Feb 20, 2017 06:05
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Deathrite Shaman
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Feb 20, 2017 06:05
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Blood Moon and Price of Progress
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Feb 20, 2017 06:12
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Attorney at Funk posted:We'd be remiss, on page 1492, not to call out Treasure Cruise by name. Fetch Lands are the Christopher Columbus of magic design. Misunderstood by a majority of the ignorant masses, and lead directly to massive death and destruction.
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Feb 20, 2017 06:12
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C-Euro posted:Thanks, I'll take that under advisement. I don't have any Blood Moons but I've wanted to try a singleton Emrakul like in Legacy Enchantress (with Nykthos as a stand-in for Sanctum) so maybe that's the slot for it 
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Feb 20, 2017 06:22
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Tarmogoyf? Although I guess its day has kind of waned.
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Feb 20, 2017 06:26
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Wild Nacatl?
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Feb 20, 2017 06:29
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All the typed duals are good without fetches but fetches make them outrageous.
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Feb 20, 2017 06:36
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I mean it's a given that Fetches & Shocks are a package deal, each is what makes the other one good.
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Feb 20, 2017 06:42
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Eela6 posted:You may be right on this one. I wasn't playing during missteps heyday, so it slipped my mind. (I played ONS-TSP then came back with INN). I wasn't around for it but I have seen enough games of no-ban-list modern to know that it's a miserable time and turns deckbuilding into 56 cards + 4 misstep
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Feb 20, 2017 06:50
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Entropic posted:I mean it's a given that Fetches & Shocks are a package deal, each is what makes the other one good. No you play fetches in mono-colored decks to thin too. Loam Lion.
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Feb 20, 2017 06:50
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AlternateNu posted:Somebody make a list of cards that are absurdly powerful almost entirely due to the existence of fetch lands. Archive Trap  Also I was That Guy in my playgroup back in the day that didn't "get" fetchlands when they first appeared, but in my defense my group was using the deck thinning argument to persuade me. Also this was Onslaught (so pre-Shocks) and in high school (so no one was running around with ABU duals to fetch).I see way more than 15 mana here so you're only encouraging my bad habits! Blood Moon is probably better for an actual prison deck though, I should really pick one or two up if they become cheaper (they won't)
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Feb 20, 2017 06:55
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Fetches are great and should be the go-to dual lands for standard. They're played in every format where they're legal and they alleviate the 4c everything decks other multi-colored lands can allow in standard. Without fetchable duals they don't get 5 colors each and also make you choose a basic so you don't have infinite sources of different colors from all your lands throughout the game.
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Feb 20, 2017 06:56
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Entropic posted:I mean it's a given that Fetches & Shocks are a package deal, each is what makes the other one good. Which do you think would see more play, typed duals without fetches or fetches without typed duals?
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Feb 20, 2017 06:56
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ThePeavstenator posted:I wasn't around for it but I have seen enough games of no-ban-list modern to know that it's a miserable time and turns deckbuilding into 56 cards + 4 misstep Misstep is more degenerate, but that's no competition to simply being miserable.
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Feb 20, 2017 06:58
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Attorney at Funk posted:Which do you think would see more play, typed duals without fetches or fetches without typed duals? fetches win bc some decks use them for thinning anyway, or turning on revolt, or activating landfall, can't do that with typed duals only
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Feb 20, 2017 07:00
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Niton posted:Misstep is more degenerate, but that's no competition to simply being miserable. That's fair, I was thinking you could just concede once the Couterbalance/Top lock is set but you really can't because of those 5% of games where they whiff on spinning Top for Counterbalance triggers and then draw nothing and you win.
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Feb 20, 2017 07:02
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Attorney at Funk posted:Which do you think would see more play, typed duals without fetches or fetches without typed duals? In standard? You kinda have to play all your on-color duals that aren't totally awful regardless, so they're roughly the same. In modern, fetches would not see much play without shocks (people would pick and choose from untyped duals instead), but shocks would still be a premier pick without fetches.
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Feb 20, 2017 07:56
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I really really want to try out that 151 card Scapeshift deck next week.
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Feb 20, 2017 08:02
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ThePeavstenator posted:Fetches are great and should be the go-to dual lands for standard. fetches are obnoxious in standard because each player is probably cracking like 5-6 per game in a midrange matchup and that is a lot of shuffling
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Feb 20, 2017 08:04
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Fetchland but instead of searching it just turns into one of the two basic lands. Bam. Pay me (a pathetically under-market salary) WotC.
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Feb 20, 2017 08:16
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clamiam45 posted:Fetchland but instead of searching it just turns into one of the two basic lands. Bam. Pay me (a pathetically under-market salary) WotC. That has awful memory issues.
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Feb 20, 2017 08:36
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A land but it's double-sided and can be transformed into another land.
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Feb 20, 2017 08:43
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mehall posted:That has awful memory issues. You mean you have to remember it?
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Feb 20, 2017 08:43
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How balanced against each other are products like the Duel Decks, whatever they're calling the premade 60-card decks this week, and Commander products? I'd love to play some more MTG with my friends, but I don't foresee talking them into the time/strategy commitment of a draft (so building a cube is out). I'd really like to just have a shoebox with a handful of reasonably easy-to-pilot decks balanced against each other in it, so you can have a favorite or just grab one and go (in my ideal fantasy world, the box would have ten two-color decks, if that helps). It *sounds* like the Commander precons are what I'm after, but I'm not good enough at MTG to see whether they're balanced against each other, or if they're even supposed to be. (( Personally, I don't care so much if they're totally balanced, but my playgroup has That Guy That Always Blames Anything Other Than Himself in it, and I want some kind of "dude they're balanced, don't bitch because you suck" factor built into my solution ))
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Feb 20, 2017 08:45
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clamiam45 posted:You mean you have to remember it? Yes. There's no good way to mark it so that it's well known for you and your opponent.
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Feb 20, 2017 08:59
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Remora posted:How balanced against each other are products like the Duel Decks, whatever they're calling the premade 60-card decks this week, and Commander products? I'd love to play some more MTG with my friends, but I don't foresee talking them into the time/strategy commitment of a draft (so building a cube is out). I'd really like to just have a shoebox with a handful of reasonably easy-to-pilot decks balanced against each other in it, so you can have a favorite or just grab one and go (in my ideal fantasy world, the box would have ten two-color decks, if that helps). Some of the Duel Decks are wildly imbalanced (Divine vs Demonic comes to mind - one gets Akroma [pro-black], the other gets Lord of the Pit [drawback]) so look up reviews if you want a particular one. They're definitely not balanced against each other outside of their sets. The Commander products of the same generation are all generally adequate, with some being slightly stronger than others or having more desirable cards which doesn't really matter, but the different generations of Commander decks can be vastly differing power levels out of the box. If you don't plan on doing multiplayer, grab the 2016 Commander decks - the aggro deck is perfectly reasonable in a 2 player game, but gets substantially less powerful the more players are in a game. Maybe grab the 2015 Commander decks if your people are alright with planeswalkers.
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Feb 20, 2017 09:05
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mehall posted:Yes. There's no good way to mark it so that it's well known for you and your opponent. Oh whatever then just make the card so you swap it with a basic land from outside the game. Or a token or whatever, the kind they insert in booster packs. It sounds like a little nitpick.
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Feb 20, 2017 09:09
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clamiam45 posted:Oh whatever then just make the card so you swap it with a basic land from outside the game. Or a token or whatever, the kind they insert in booster packs. It sounds like a little nitpick. It's not, it's an extremely relevant portion of why they design cards they way they do. Re: bringing in a basic from outside the game: how do you differentiate that from the basics in the deck? What about basics in the sideboard? Doesn't happen often outside of Vintage, but it happens sometimes. It makes deck checks etc a bit of a mess, because these are real cards in your deck, but with more real cards to make them work. Re: tokens, they flooded rhe market with Morph and Manifest cover cards and most people still didn't keep/use them.
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Feb 20, 2017 09:20
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"Tap: Exile This Land, then put a Plains land token on the battlefield tapped." And then repeat for the other colour. I'm pretty sure this immediately breaks to create endless lands or whatever, but I'm sure design can unfuck it. 
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Feb 20, 2017 09:25
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Siivola posted:"Tap: Exile This Land, then put a Plains land token on the battlefield tapped." And then repeat for the other colour. Might want to make the exile part of the cost, just so that it doesn't turn instant-speed "untap target land" effects into ramp spells. But otherwise, that should work great.
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Feb 20, 2017 09:33
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Tap: Transform ~ then put the other colour on the back
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Feb 20, 2017 09:43
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Nah, because it requires a token to represent and for a lot of the market, casual especially, they won't have or bother with the token. It's a nice idea for a land but the only way I can think of it working logistically and elegantlyish is for it to be double sided and you choose a side when it etbs. But that'd still require some awkward text: When Hypothetical Forest on Fire enters the battlefield you may transform it, if not, this land taps for g, or some such. e: ^^ that definitely reads better but is a fundamentally different, and stronger, land than the choose one of two options that was being discussed.
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Feb 20, 2017 09:47
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Pontius Pilate posted:Nah, because it requires a token to represent and for a lot of the market, casual especially, they won't have or bother with the token. It's a nice idea for a land but the only way I can think of it working logistically and elegantlyish is for it to be double sided and you choose a side when it etbs. But that'd still require some awkward text: When Hypothetical Forest on Fire enters the battlefield you may transform it, if not, this land taps for g, or some such.  Doesn't seem that awkward to me. Then again, that's a whole lot of work for essentially nothing of value.
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Feb 20, 2017 10:04
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Torchlighter posted:
I would play this.
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Feb 20, 2017 10:28
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Torchlighter posted:
Just use counters. When ~ comes into play, you may add a counter to ~. If numcounters is even, tap for G, if odd tap for R. Might get a bit messy having counters on lands. Awkward to handle at least, but with Gemstone Mine/Dark Depths etc it's not like they haven't done this before.
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Feb 20, 2017 10:28
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GoutPatrol posted:I would play this.
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Feb 20, 2017 10:36
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