|
coyo7e posted:Okay this is a totally meaningless-aside however - how shoudl we be spelling "Quentin"? I mean I grew up with a boatload of kids named that and they were all spelled the same, but I also don't think I even have a digital version of The Magicians so maybe his name is totally spelled like a stripper's kid? It was Quentin in the books. Or at least in the first two. I didn't read the third, maybe he changes it. 
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2017 23:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 21:12 |
|
|
Julia was warned. They told her you can't unring a bell. She rolled the dice and it came up snake eyes. At least Reynard let her off with a warning rape instead of killing her outright like most of her friends. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2017 00:56
|
|
|
Maybe some less discussion about whether or not Julia deserved what happened to her?
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2017 01:02
|
|
|
Both versions of Julia's story are super hosed up and dumb. There's some point about enduring a river of poo poo to get power after being locked out by the gatekeepers but The Magicians does an incredibly poor job. Extremely hyped that Abigail the Sloth showed up this week. I hope they get around to more Fillory adventures soon.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2017 01:32
|
|
|
I recently listened to the first book and was wondering is it worth listening to the other two? I thought the first was decent enough what is the general consensus about the others?
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2017 01:51
|
|
|
Oroborus posted:I recently listened to the first book and was wondering is it worth listening to the other two? I thought the first was decent enough what is the general consensus about the others? I think each book is better than the last.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2017 02:04
|
|
|
Yeah, I wasn't exactly a fan of the first book, especially once they leave Brakebills and everyone turns into horrible people but really liked 2 and 3.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2017 02:07
|
|
|
Oroborus posted:I recently listened to the first book and was wondering is it worth listening to the other two? I thought the first was decent enough what is the general consensus about the others?
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2017 02:09
|
|
|
UltimoDragonQuest posted:Both versions of Julia's story are super hosed up and dumb. There's some point about enduring a river of poo poo to get power after being locked out by the gatekeepers but The Magicians does an incredibly poor job. Maybe I'm misremembering things because it's been a few years since I read the second book, but what I remember about Julia before her encounter with Reynard, she was tenacious, but not vindictive. She was ambitious, talented, and creative. She made genuine relationships with people. For the first time in the books, there was someone that you could really root for! It seemed like she had finally gotten her happy ending, a group of people who really understood her, and they were actually going to do it! They were going to summon a god, how exciting! And then Reynard comes, and it's like, oh, no, what is this, what the hell is happening, this is horrible? She's getting raped by a 20 foot tall fox amongst all the blood and gore of her friends? No no no no no. The show turned her into someone who had no qualms about mutilating a dead body. Someone who had no qualms about becoming a thief. Then when her supposed best friend Quentin gets mad at her for stealing from him and he warns her about the dangerous stuff she is getting herself into, out of vengeance, she had no qualms about placing a spell on her best friend to make him think he is actually insane, locking him inside the prison of his own mind for the rest of his life, and potentially killing him. She then turns to thievery again, only to accidentally kill Kady's mother in the process. But none of that slowed her down. She doesn't care about who she has to step on to get ahead. It almost seems like they came up with the tagline of "magic is a drug" during the pitch meeting for the show, and the SyFy executives LOVED it. They wrote the outline of the first season, and the executives were like, "yeah that's great and all, but where do you talk about magic is a drug thing? We LOVE that." So the producers decided, "Oh, um, yeah. Julia, she is like a crazed heroin addict. She'll steal from her loved ones and screw them over, and even kill people to get her fix." Nihonniboku fucked around with this message at 03:03 on Feb 19, 2017 |
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2017 02:52
|
|
|
Pretty sure the magic-as-drug allegory is from the books. I don't remember if Julia specifically was turning tricks for spells, but I'm like 90% certain it was mentioned as a thing that happened quite frequently.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2017 03:00
|
|
|
WarLocke posted:Saying that someone is a "have" or a "have not" really makes me not want to engage. Is that some MRA dog whistle? Sounds like it to me. Along with his victim blaming.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2017 03:01
|
|
|
Nihonniboku posted:The show turned her into someone who had no qualms about mutilating a dead body. Someone who had no qualms about becoming a thief. Then when her supposed best friend Quentin gets mad at her for stealing from him and he warns her about the dangerous stuff she is getting herself into, out of vengeance, she had no qualms about placing a spell on her best friend to make him think he is actually insane, locking him inside the prison of his own mind for the rest of his life, and potentially killing him. She then turns to thievery again, only to accidentally kill Kady's mother in the process. But none of that slowed her down. She doesn't care about who she has to step on to get ahead. We must have watched different shows, because the one you saw paints Julia as nothing more than a power-hungry madwoman. Especially the part on how she had no qualms about the Asylum episode. Every step of the way she was extremely reluctant to follow through, and it's made pretty clear that if Marina had actually explained what it entailed, she'd never have taken part in it. And at the end of the episode, she sacrificed the rapport she had built with Marina's coven in an effort to fix what they had done to him. Ruby Prism fucked around with this message at 03:42 on Feb 19, 2017 |
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2017 03:27
|
|
|
Sophism posted:We must have watched different shows, because the one you saw paints Julia as nothing more than a power-hungry madwoman. I guess I was wrong to say no qualms. She did all those terrible things with tears in her eyes, and continued on anyway.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2017 05:01
|
|
|
LITERALLY A BIRD posted:That's because they were not the same journey. If Julia had Quentin's story arc, and vice versa, she would be the "lesson," and he the "tragedy." We would still be sympathizing with the character that had been raped and betrayed, because their respective genders are not carrying our audience reaction. How is it not the same journey? Both felt the real world was not enough. And both gave the same advice to each other, give up. I don't advocate sympathy for either, but both deserve compassion for their failed dreams. Why sympathize with Julia, who's turning into quinton, and not Quinton himself? He's been letting this bitterness of failure destroy him for a while? Noone has said anything good about him, he's completely worthless. But Julia is choosing the same path. She chose fantasy at the cost of her real life also. I don't sympathize with her suffering just as I don't sympathize with quinton, despite hers being displayed, which connects with yall. You guys don't see that sympathizing with Julia is sympathizing with quinton like I do, so I seem crazy. But I am just following the stories narrative, where quinton wished for more, and the disappointment made him ugly; his best friend was happy until she too also wish for something more. This destroyed them both. So sympathize with both if you want to be compassionate, they are both crushed by their dumb expectations. Have and have nots obviously refers to their position. She was a have in the beginning and told him to forget his dreams. She became a have not after the interview and he, the have, told her to forget her dreams. both times, the haves had no sympathy for the have nots disappointment and bitterness at accepting their fate. So since Quinton is worthless, and julia's advice was right. Why isn't her original point right for both of them? So since they both feel compelled to go down this path, why feel bad for Julia and not quinton? Why is Quinton a personal flaw he has responsibility for that must be corrected, while Julia is some victim and not also flawed and wrong and in need of correction. You only feel sympathy for Julia because pf her fall from grace, but that presumes that she deserved her original position. The show is showing you she is quinton in values, but just better genes.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2017 05:19
|
|
|
Nihonniboku posted:I guess I was wrong to say no qualms. She did all those terrible things with tears in her eyes, and continued on anyway. You sounded so sure of your interpretation that I went back to that episode and watched the first Julia scene. (Outside of Quentin's dream world.) "Um, I just um... I didn't think Q would uh, fall in so deep." "Oh this is nothing." "Uh, what... what does that mean?" "Well, I mean he might want to take his shoes off and get comfortable. We cooked up a whopper here. I don't really see him getting out of it." "Um, I thought the idea was to just mess with him." "My idea was to gently caress him up hard. And you loved it even harder." "Yeah, yeah, gently caress him up, not kill him." "Oh he's not gonna die. He just might not actually ever wake up." "Oh My God..." Every single character in this show is incredibly flawed, and Julia is no exception. But once again, it's clear she thought they'd be basically giving Quentin a hosed up lucid dream, and he'd wake up horrified and that would be the end of that.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2017 05:28
|
|
|
Sophism posted:You sounded so sure of your interpretation that I went back to that episode and watched the first Julia scene. (Outside of Quentin's dream world.) 
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2017 07:58
|
|
|
Oroborus posted:I recently listened to the first book and was wondering is it worth listening to the other two? I thought the first was decent enough what is the general consensus about the others?
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2017 09:27
|
|
|
Femur posted:How is it not the same journey? Both felt the real world was not enough. Femur posted:quinton Quinton quinton quinton quinton Quinton quinton Quinton quinton
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2017 05:50
|
|
|
Tiggum posted:And it's never been made at all clear why she didn't get to go to wizard school. Every time the timeloop reset, the chatwin lady made changes to see if they'd have better luck against the Beast. Julia getting screwed over for getting into brakebills was one of the changes for the current loop. In all the others she was in school with everybody else.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2017 06:42
|
|
|
Tiggum posted:No they didn't. Quentin felt that the real world was not enough and was obsessed with childish fantasies. Then they both discovered that magic was real. Quentin got to go to magic school and Julia didn't and she resented that. She wasn't pining for some fantasy world, she just wanted to learn magic, which remember, was real and within her grasp. She wasn't wasting her life going after some impossible dream, she actually went out and found people to teach her magic. And it's never been made at all clear why she didn't get to go to wizard school. And she only didn't go to wizard school because Jane Chatwin interfered somehow. For all we know, she aced the entrance exam and Jane just told the Dean not to let her in this time.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2017 08:08
|
|
|
Yeah, it was made pretty clear that she got into Brakesbill and joined the Beast/Fillory group/quest in all the other timelines and that the only reason she didn't this time is because Jane was throwing poo poo at the wall and hoping that if she sent Julia on a different path it might get poo poo done. Which, actually, I guess Jane was right about in a round about way. And I guess you could argue that being raped and traumatized is better than being murdered by the Beast. But Jane's still a dick.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2017 02:30
|
|
|
STAC Goat posted:Which, actually, I guess Jane was right about in a round about way. And I guess you could argue that being raped and traumatized is better than being murdered by the Beast. But Jane's still a dick.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2017 06:08
|
|
|
Josh Lyman posted:Only if you're someone who values life above all else. Unrelated, I liked how when Penny and Quentin caught the White Lady last episode she was just really pissed and annoyed (and kind of creepy). I was expecting the usual simpering fantasy trope but the poor woman just wanted to nap in peace.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2017 17:09
|
|
|
So, I don't really get why they didn't just have the showdown with the Beast at the end of season 1. Just budget constraints? What was gained by having a really unsatisfying showdown, then two more episodes, then a real showdown with kind of an arbitrary setup? I dunno, I'm probably too picky.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2017 17:34
|
|
|
Harrow posted:So, I don't really get why they didn't just have the showdown with the Beast at the end of season 1. Just budget constraints? What was gained by having a really unsatisfying showdown, then two more episodes, then a real showdown with kind of an arbitrary setup? They needed a cliffhanger and a hook for season 2.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2017 17:50
|
|
|
Besides, if they finished the Beast as a S1 ender we wouldn't have gotten all those totally awesome "Yea, I kinda like the Beast" moments.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2017 18:11
|
|
|
The pacing is kind of strange if you emphasize the season breaks but once it's streamed back to back it feels about right to go ~15 eps on the Beast arc.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2017 22:59
|
|
|
Every time Q reminds me that he's the worst human on the planet, I take a moment to remember that portrayal is almost beat for beat how I think about myself when I'm dealing with poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2017 03:35
|
|
|
Harrow posted:So, I don't really get why they didn't just have the showdown with the Beast at the end of season 1. Just budget constraints? What was gained by having a really unsatisfying showdown, then two more episodes, then a real showdown with kind of an arbitrary setup? For some reason Syfy did exactly the same thing with The Expanse, they're currently still wrapping up the first book.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2017 04:14
|
|
|
muscles like this! posted:For some reason Syfy did exactly the same thing with The Expanse, they're currently still wrapping up the first book. With the Magicians, I understand. There are only 3 books of material, so if they want to have 6 or 7 seasons, I understand why they've introduced so much filler. But for the Expanse, there are 6 novels out so far, for a planned 9. 3 trilogies more or less. While I'm very happy with what they're doing with that so far, either they're eventually going to have to speed things way the gently caress up, or they're simply not going to finish the story. I don't see the show lasting 15 seasons. Nihonniboku fucked around with this message at 04:23 on Feb 23, 2017 |
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2017 04:19
|
|
|
Edit: oops.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2017 04:22
|
|
|
Nihonniboku posted:With the Magicians, I understand. There are only 3 books of material, so if they want to have 6 or 7 seasons, I understand why they've introduced so much filler. Yeah but The Expanse after book 2 can be wrapped up in 2 novels if they wanted.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2017 16:16
|
|
|
Honestly, I love the filler. It's been wild and the writing has been awesome. If they can keep the quality up, I hope they add more and more to really flesh the world Lev Grossman created with the novels.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2017 17:21
|
|
|
There's always a few hilarious WTF moments in each episode. Taking rabbit, "PREGNANT." Foo Fighters and Margot's inability to keep a straight face about it Fixation on office masturbation
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2017 17:23
|
|
|
Was that an anti abortion message in the episode?
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2017 19:18
|
|
|
No, if anything it was pro-choice.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2017 19:39
|
|
|
 e: I should check posts before I send them in. 
WarLocke fucked around with this message at 04:32 on Feb 24, 2017 |
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2017 20:02
|
|
|
I love that Quentin doesn't hesitate in loving his magical Alice doppelganger even though most shows would have had him stop and realize that it would only make things worse. It's totally in keeping with his compromising, feckless character.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2017 21:40
|
|
|
Margot is amazing.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2017 23:17
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 21:12 |
|
|
bull3964 posted:No, if anything it was pro-choice. Explain. Seems like an anti-choice wet dream.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2017 23:22
|
|