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Paramemetic posted:They were made aware of the lethality and told to have stable characters. Whether they are paying attention to this or not is yet to be determined, I take turns with another DM and both of us have told the party enough times "y'all gonna die" that it seems meaningless to them - but now we're running a legit AD&D module and uh people are gonna die most likely. If they failed to make stable characters and have to sit out and if this cascades into a TPW is gonna be on them. I will probably bring a stack of pre-gen characters just in case so I can say "yo you bads I warned you" and they can play Generic Ex-Gladiator #17 or Generic Psionic Insect #41 until the end of session then opt to stick with or make a new one for next session since we're in an interlude of basically modules/adventures to learn the world more before we kick into a major campaign. It sounds like you've done your due diligence. Have at it, I say.
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Feb 21, 2017 17:26
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gradenko_2000 posted:Declare who is being targeted, at the minimum one round ahead of time, and let the chips fall where they may after that. If they can interrupt it, if they can break LOS, if they can do anything that would reasonably stop it, let them stop it. This. And the first time it happens, target an NPC.
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Feb 21, 2017 17:54
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PyroDwarf posted:Running princes of the apocalypse, seems like one of the players wants to take over windharrow's spot as court bard for wind prophet. This got me to thinking, the party is four players, what if they start claiming the elemental weapons for themselves? Well unless they are destroyed by tossing them into the portals then the elemental princes will emerge from the portals eventually. (The prophets try to hasten the process if one of them die) If all four get to the material plane then they can summon the Elder Elemental Eye. Unless the party wants to become the new prophets keeping the weapons will be bad for everyone.
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Feb 21, 2017 18:00
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Also new UA is up for another thing likley to be in the upcoming mechanics expansion. New Mass Combat Rules http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/unearthed-arcana/mass-combat
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Feb 21, 2017 18:34
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MonsterEnvy posted:Also new UA is up for another thing likley to be in the upcoming mechanics expansion. These are actually pretty good until you get to the part about characters being part of the mass combat, where the advice on adjudicating spells is basically "resolve the spell with the normal rules and then snap back to the mass combat rules to apply casualties." I wish they'd come up with a more elegant way to deal with PCs using their abilities in mass combat. Like, they're really simple but will probably do the job, but that one thing just annoys me.
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Feb 21, 2017 18:47
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That link also features the survey about the Warlock and Wizard. So you can make your opinions known. I brought up how the Lore Wizard steps on the Sorcerers Toes too much.
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Feb 21, 2017 18:59
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So now that I've been running a game for more than a few sessions, I'm starting to see the disparity between the martial/caster with respect to combat options. I like increasing the number of possible magical items able to be attuned, and having them have magic items with bonus actions for utility. As well I thought of letting them use their multi attack to hit whoever or split it amongst targets. A second question is if someone wants to roll to intimidate a target in combat, would that be a main action? Or can they do that as a free action?
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Feb 21, 2017 19:02
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Big Black Brony posted:
Your choice there. I can't remember what is stated for that.
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Feb 21, 2017 19:14
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I've heard it said a couple times that 5e isn't neck deep in character optimization. But, from what I've seen, it's still a major thing. It's kinda hard to go over this without going over other editions, but: character optimization isn't necessarily collecting as many +1s as possible from a bunch of different sources. It's using the game to create a character who is mechanically/narratively powerful. Although character optimization in 5e is simpler, it's certainly still there. There's things like sorcerer/paladins, and fighter/sorcerer/warlocks, that combine several different class features to create a huge amount of nova power. Putting feats and Ability Score Increases in the same slot leads to optimization issues, like the fact that, usually, +1 to a stat mod is really, really powerful. A moon druid is going to be a really good meatshield, by virtue of just flooding itself with hitpoints. If you're doing an official campaign, you want to pump up your perception and probably don't need to worry about investigation. One of the best ways to be a fighter is to have a lot of wizard levels. Probably my favorite little character was from a long time ago (so this may have been a playtest version, so I'm not sure if it applies): it was a necromancer/cleric, who had a constant negative energy field around him, which constantly healed him, and could drop Inflict Wound spells (which also healed him). Party optimization is a thing, too. If you've got 6 levels of paladin somewhere, then a party can have up to +5 on all saves. Clerics can spam guidance for bonuses to every skill roll possible, which is even better if you happen to have a bard. Almost every class has a college/path/domain/etc that's better than others, and works better with others. As a side note on saves: Monsters technically need to be designed to account for the possibility that a given save is rolled at a penalty, up to the maximum situation of +5 (stat) +5 (in paladin aura) +6 (proficiency). That is a massive spread. Unearthed Arcana just makes things weirder. I mean, sure, now you can have a ranger who's not Automatically Bad, and tunnel fighters (which are both good ideas, on an optimization front), but you also have things like Lore Mastery Wizards. The disparity between a well made character and one that's not made with the system in mind is large enough to cause fundamental balance issues throughout the game. If one party has things more like Berserker Barbarians and Beastmaster Rangers, and another party is more in line with Moon Druids and Lore Master Wizards, then things that challenge the first group will get steamrolled by the second, and things that challenge the second group will steamroll the first. Sure, going through 10 books for 4 different ways to add +1 is a lot of work and really fiddly. But in 5e, you can make singular choices that dramatically alter the balance of power for the party and the entire campaign.
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Feb 21, 2017 19:31
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Big Black Brony posted:A second question is if someone wants to roll to intimidate a target in combat, would that be a main action? Or can they do that as a free action? The example under "Improvising an Action" from the PHB explicitly uses intimidating an enemy as one of the examples. In this case it would cost an action. Note the book does not describe what intimidating a creature would do, so the DM has to improvise.
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Feb 21, 2017 19:33
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SettingSun posted:The example under "Improvising an Action" from the PHB explicitly uses intimidating an enemy as one of the examples. In this case it would cost an action. Note the book does not describe what intimidating a creature would do, so the DM has to improvise. There is a table somewhere in the DMG which gives NPC attitudes, and the DC to changing an attitude. If I remember right, for every 5 points above 10 you can adjust the attitude by one level, with the levels being something like hostile, angry, indifferent, friendly, obsequious.
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Feb 21, 2017 19:47
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mastershakeman posted:yikes, I knew they were nasty but man that's rough. Its a 10' radius, and very limited:  Anyone with over 60hp is immune, and if it targets a group anyone with over 10hp is immune. As a player spell its more for drama than maximum tactical effect.
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Feb 21, 2017 19:53
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Successfully intimidating a creature in combat should have whatever consequences make sense given the circumstances and what the character was trying to achieve. If the character manages to intimidate a creature while shouting "Surrender, evildoer!" then the evildoer drops their weapon and surrenders. If the character manages to intimidate a creature by charging at it, roaring, trying to force them to panic, then the creature flees.
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Feb 21, 2017 19:56
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I'll sometimes let Martials get an Intimidate check for free if they do something crazy in combat, like the Monk who bodyslammed the evil sorcerer off a bridge. Enemies who fail might become Frightened, change targets (either viewing that character as a priority or staying the hell away from them), or whatever else makes sense.
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Feb 21, 2017 20:04
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Ratpick posted:Successfully intimidating a creature in combat should have whatever consequences make sense given the circumstances and what the character was trying to achieve. Yea, that's what is usually the deal for them, or to try and cause a route. I've been letting it slide as a free action, but no longer!
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Feb 21, 2017 20:15
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Ratpick posted:Successfully intimidating a creature in combat should have whatever consequences make sense given the circumstances and what the character was trying to achieve. I subscribed to this line of thought until one of my players tried to intimidate his way out of everything (successfully). I had to work my way out of that corner by having my bad guys reach out and recruit Super Bad Things, who aren't intimidated by petty mortals.
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Feb 21, 2017 20:16
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I will let players try non-combat in combat "intimidate" actions but I also will let them roll it if it makes narrative and fun-having sense in the middle of a combat. For example attacking a guy viciously while trying to tell the rest of the group that it's a good idea to run away. Okay, roll the attack, roll the intimidate. If the attack lands, and the intimidate is good, maybe the the other dudes decide, yeah, no, this fight ain't worth it. Maybe they roll disadvantage on their next attack because they are rattled. Maybe the other members roll with advantage. On the other hand, if they roll that intimidate and it's just terrible, just a horrible roll, maybe the bad guys are encouraged. If you roll the attack and miss, maybe they all have a laugh at you and you take disadvantage. I wouldn't probably do that with strangers at the table though in case they were going to be real "rules as written-y," it's why I like playing with my group who enjoy that kind of thing because Technical Rules Lawyers saying "actually there's nothing in the mechanics that allow this, furthermore," just drive me nuts. Then again those kinds of players wouldn't be attempting it in the first place.
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Feb 21, 2017 20:41
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SettingSun posted:I subscribed to this line of thought until one of my players tried to intimidate his way out of everything (successfully). I had to work my way out of that corner by having my bad guys reach out and recruit Super Bad Things, who aren't intimidated by petty mortals. What types of situations was this a problem in? I'd like to know specifics. To me it sounds like what this problem might be stemming from is mostly the player saying "I intimidate them" without you asking "Okay, how do you do it?" or alternately you as a DM skipping the important step of "is this a thing that can actually be expected to reasonably work given the circumstances?" before calling for a roll. Also, intimidation requires leverage, whether it's actually presenting a credible threat to the target or having some way of coercing the target to comply. Edit: in the context of combat I'd crib the rule from 4e that you can only get a creature to back down from combat if they are already Bloodied. That's your leverage right there: you've beaten them half to death, thus proving that you can probably beat them all the way to death. Ratpick fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Feb 21, 2017 |
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Feb 21, 2017 21:45
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So the game I'm joining, according to a friend who has played the adventure path we're doing, eventually has a massive combat around level 3-4, with 30+ zombies and extra tougher guys. As said before, I'm playing an Undying Light warlock - are there any warlock spells or cantrips or anything that are good for dealing with large amounts of chaff?
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Feb 21, 2017 21:46
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Ratpick posted:These are actually pretty good until you get to the part about characters being part of the mass combat, where the advice on adjudicating spells is basically "resolve the spell with the normal rules and then snap back to the mass combat rules to apply casualties." I wish they'd come up with a more elegant way to deal with PCs using their abilities in mass combat. While the Wizard uses wall of ice to affect 30 enemies within a unit, you the fighter can decide which one enemy you wish to attack, and if you are lucky you might even manage to deal enough HP damage to take out that one enemy. Also, using these rules, there are some immediate issues... It never makes sense to split up your forces. If two units of 200 creatures have surrounded a single unit of 400 creatures (assuming CR 1 or 1/2 on all sides), the result will be that the two units can never damage the one and will always lose the maximum and need to make a morale check. This is in part because advantage doesn't actually add to your rolls but just gives you two chances at an unmakable roll. Assuming you have two units of near-equal strength, adding a single CR 13 creature all but guarantees victory. So if 399 pit fiends go up against 399 pit fiends and one vampire, the side with the vampire cannot lose. Because units are capped at 400, one strong unit will inevitably beat any number of weaker units. E.g. One vampire and 399 ghouls can beat literally any number of ghouls. E.g. 400 elk can defeat any number of bandits. I know, it's just supposed to be a stupid thing you plug in while the players do the actual important stuff, but it just isn't good. Good enough? Maybe - they aren't actually that important. But still, this is the sort of thing you come up with if you are just winging it for an afternoon and putting together a first draft without actually checking to see if the rules work or are fun. If it was somebody's homebrew they slapped together in a few hours to get ready for their game later that night, I wouldn't criticize, but these are ostensibly people who work a full time at this poo poo. Or are they just copied and pasted from some 3.5 supplement?
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Feb 21, 2017 21:52
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Ratpick posted:What types of situations was this a problem in? I'd like to know specifics. Well yeah, the evolution of how I handled this since that game is just this exact post. Your previous post, out without this context, is how it started. You've basically just posed a problem and provided the solution to said problem in two posts.
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Feb 21, 2017 21:54
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KittyEmpress posted:So the game I'm joining, according to a friend who has played the adventure path we're doing, eventually has a massive combat around level 3-4, with 30+ zombies and extra tougher guys. As said before, I'm playing an Undying Light warlock - are there any warlock spells or cantrips or anything that are good for dealing with large amounts of chaff? Moonbeam is great. It has a small radius (affects 2x2), but it's an ongoing, mobile beam of damage, and if you're smart you can slowly control the shape of the battle.
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Feb 21, 2017 21:59
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SettingSun posted:Well yeah, the evolution of how I handled this since that game is just this exact post. Your previous post, out without this context, is how it started. You've basically just posed a problem and provided the solution to said problem in two posts. Yeah, you're right, my first post on the matter was pretty much devoid of context. Sorry, I didn't mean to come off as patronizing, this is also stuff I've been personally struggling with in my games and it actually helps me to constantly iterate on these ideas through discussion.
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Feb 21, 2017 22:01
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lifg posted:Moonbeam is great. It has a small radius (affects 2x2), but it's an ongoing, mobile beam of damage, and if you're smart you can slowly control the shape of the battle. That looks perfect, it also does radiant damage which synergizes well with my character's archetype. Which is awesome.
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Feb 21, 2017 22:06
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Jimbozig posted:While the Wizard uses wall of ice to affect 30 enemies within a unit, you the fighter can decide which one enemy you wish to attack, and if you are lucky you might even manage to deal enough HP damage to take out that one enemy. You could give the fighter multiple attacks, since a round is 1 minute instead of 6 seconds, and allow excess damage to be passed on a la the cleave rules. Thus a level-20 fighter vs 400 goblins wipes them all out in a matter of minutes. I don't know why they didn't make that explicit though. e: Wait, you roll a d20 and add the unit's BR to determine outcomes? 400 Orcs have a BR of 80. 800 Goblins also have a BR of 80, but they have to be divided into troops of 400 each. That means the max each troop can roll during combat is 60, which means they can never win despite having flanked the Orcs and outnumbering them 2 to 1. In fact, the Orcs won't lose a single man. I'm thinking this system needs some kind of basic attrition system to work. Vengarr fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Feb 21, 2017 |
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Feb 21, 2017 22:13
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I'm rewarding my players with a small house in the city for completing a drinking challenge. They had to visit each major tavern in the city and drink the signature drink and return to the starting point in one night. Of course, I threw a bunch of obstacles in their way but they completed it with some time to spare. I was also thinking of using the house as a solution to our transportation problem. They've got plot hooks all over the continent but my players find wilderness travel to be boring. I was thinking that perhaps this house could have belonged to a wizard who set up portals hidden within. I'm trying to come up with a system of "charging" these long-dormant portals and I'm thinking that the players can pay the charge price in blood or gold. They can straight up deposit enough gold into gumball-style slots to activate a portal or they can compete in a planar arena in the basement of the house and defeat enough monsters to open the way. These battles would be quite tough--the guys would be punching above their weight class by a few levels but victory could be possible if they strategize and roll well. These battles would be non-lethal--the house would teleport monsters away in the case of the TPK and the invisible servant bound to the house would revive them. Any thoughts? Is this a stupid plan?
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Feb 21, 2017 22:21
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Moonbeam owns, just a straight up ion cannon.
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Feb 21, 2017 22:22
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Ratpick posted:Yeah, you're right, my first post on the matter was pretty much devoid of context. Sorry, I didn't mean to come off as patronizing, this is also stuff I've been personally struggling with in my games and it actually helps me to constantly iterate on these ideas through discussion. My bad too, I kinda felt like I fell for a trap or something. To be specific about how it started in the beginning for me, I had a very hard time pushing back on some ideas that my players came up with, mostly because I didn't have much of a spine. So this player, when confronted with a small band of orcs, tried to intimidate them into fleeing. I gave it a moderate DC (I think 15, these guys were level 2) and called for a roll. He hit it out of the park so I ask what he does to intimidate. I've already DM'd myself into a corner here so I let the orcs break rank and flee. That really disappointed me as I love a good combat, but didn't feel confident enough to tell that player "no, they don't flee as they think they can take you" since he did pass the check. Your leverage thing is right on the money. After that adventure I did a lot of research about what I could do better. After that I started asking things like "why should these monsters be afraid of you?" and without a credible answer I just don't let them roll that kind of check.
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Feb 21, 2017 22:23
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MTV Crib Death posted:I'm rewarding my players with a small house in the city for completing a drinking challenge. They had to visit each major tavern in the city and drink the signature drink and return to the starting point in one night. Of course, I threw a bunch of obstacles in their way but they completed it with some time to spare. The house used to belong to an alcoholic wizard. If you get blackout drunk in one of the rooms of the house, you wake up wherever it was you wanted to go. Price: the gold for the alcohol, massive headache, possible shame and embarrassment. Make them roll, too. Higher number = closer to where they wanted to go. On a 1, they find themselves somewhere awful. As for the wizard, he accidentally teleported himself to Rye'lagh, Plane of Whiskey, and never came back.
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Feb 21, 2017 22:27
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Does anyone have a good collection of 5e/NEXT playtest stories? I got into a discussion earlier and couldn't find the actual posts with the info.
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Feb 21, 2017 22:32
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Paramemetic posted:Moonbeam owns, just a straight up ion cannon. In my last session it was used to constantly damage a Gargoyle and was super useful. Indeed it is a cool spell. (Not that it stopped the Gargoyle from getting a crit and ripping out the Paladins eye.) MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 22:41 on Feb 21, 2017 |
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Feb 21, 2017 22:36
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Moonbeam is fuckin weird because your inclination is that moving it over something will hurt it but its damage triggers on turn starts and when it enters the beam (but only once per turn). So unless they're put in a situation where they have to run through it, you have to hope your concentration holds out before you can even get one guaranteed damage event.
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Feb 21, 2017 23:10
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Mass Combat is lame, and sounds like they did a terrible job of it. Would be different if a high level Fighter/Barbarian/Monk could just mow through dozens or hundreds of soldiers in a round. Oh well on more interesting news it looks like More Purple More Better's Automated Character Sheet has been updated, today. Now includes all the UA subclasses up through Sorcerer, and even includes the Artificer which was something they were taking a long time on, as a full class takes a lot more work than an archetype.
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Feb 21, 2017 23:52
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So, looking through the actual books, Moonbeam seems to be druid only. A level 3 warlock will have some trouble casting a second level druid spell  I'm guessing there's no other good 'mow down chaff' spells though?
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Feb 22, 2017 00:02
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You could do what my players do with 5e, put it on their character sheet to see if I, uh I mean your DM, notices. Apparently, silence implies consent on rule breaking.
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Feb 22, 2017 00:05
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MTV Crib Death posted:I'm rewarding my players with a small house in the city for completing a drinking challenge. They had to visit each major tavern in the city and drink the signature drink and return to the starting point in one night. Of course, I threw a bunch of obstacles in their way but they completed it with some time to spare. You could go Stargate style, since that is pretty much just a magic portal, and require them to know the address of the destination to activate the portal. That would make the cost of usage tied to investigation or puzzle solving if you give them incomplete or coded addresses. Or use keys instead of addresses so you can give major new locations out as quest rewards and optional treasure or combat one offs as rewards for hunting out portal keys in pawn shops and dark corners.
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Feb 22, 2017 00:12
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Turtlicious posted:You could do what my players do with 5e, put it on their character sheet to see if I, uh I mean your DM, notices. Apparently, silence implies consent on rule breaking. It turns out Flaming Sphere is basically Moonbeam but fire, and is a spell I get from being Undying Light Who would have thought. It even has the added bonus of affecting creatures on the end of their turn, AND being able to explicitly ram it into their faces.Is there any way to trade out spells as a warlock? I know in 3.5 I could ditch a spell that was useful at low levels, at least.
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Feb 22, 2017 00:19
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Neon Knight posted:portal. gently caress yeah! Planescape! e: Like, best Planescape. Act 1: Get mission, find key, convince owner to part with key. Act 2: Kick door, loot Greek Hell (or regular hell, or Valhalla, or that one with the tunnels, etc). Act 3: Oooooooh shiiiiiiit run away. Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 00:29 on Feb 22, 2017 |
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Feb 22, 2017 00:20
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Vengarr posted:The house used to belong to an alcoholic wizard. Portals are opened by cocktail recipes, each getting more and more involved. AlphaDog posted:gently caress yeah! Planescape! Portals are opened by increasingly complex cocktail recipes. Ingredients are mundane at first then spiral into things like schnapps made from the Peaches of Immortality, cider made from apples picked from Mount Celestia, hellfire bitters made for actual hellfire, unicorn tears, salt rims from the quasi-elemental plane of salt, etc. Turns out the pub crawl was a coded message from the wizard trapped in the quazi-elemental Plane of Alcohol and the final recipe will free him from imprisonment Now freed he sets upon the world with his army of alementals and alcomancers.
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Feb 22, 2017 00:58
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Two Headed Calf posted:alementals  Shamelessly ripping this off for my DW game as minions of the primary villain: He Who Thirsts Below (Instinct: Drink all the booze in the world). Or maybe as allies of the PCs against Him. e: It's more serious than it sounds. If He succeeds, it will cause the end of the world in at least 3 different ways. Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Feb 22, 2017 |
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Feb 22, 2017 01:07
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