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Desiden posted:What's triple loving lovely about that, is it basically confirms they plan to retain the guy to write beyond this. Which....why? I mean, let's leave aside all the awful poo poo Zak's done for a nanosecond; you've got a whole stable of freelancers with a proven track record of doing well with the WoD setting over at OPP. Instead you hire a guy with a fairly minimal publishing record in a different niche of the hobby, and his first product for you could at best be seen as mediocre with a heavy topping of purple prose. That's the guy you not only want to keep on, but (now that the nanosecond is up and we're back to awful poo poo) keep on even though its clear that at least a couple, and probably more, of those experienced writers in the WoD won't work with you now? yeah but it's made a lot of people click a lot of things!
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Feb 22, 2017 21:01
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Desiden posted:What's triple loving lovely about that, is it basically confirms they plan to retain the guy to write beyond this. Which....why? I mean, let's leave aside all the awful poo poo Zak's done for a nanosecond; you've got a whole stable of freelancers with a proven track record of doing well with the WoD setting over at OPP. Instead you hire a guy with a fairly minimal publishing record in a different niche of the hobby, and his first product for you could at best be seen as mediocre with a heavy topping of purple prose. That's the guy you not only want to keep on, but (now that the nanosecond is up and we're back to awful poo poo) keep on even though its clear that at least a couple, and probably more, of those experienced writers in the WoD won't work with you now? I'm pretty sure that Swedracula's opinion of OPP Is that they were bad stewards of the brand, and doesn't want anyone who's worked with OPP to work on OneWoD. More truthfully it's probably that most of the writers at OPP would look at his hyper edgy writing prompts and tell him "No, this is stupid, we can't revert to the 90s. It's actively harmful to even try." e: gently caress quote:In addition to this blanket criticism of engagement with contemporary issues, there has been some concern about the inclusion of two transgender vampire characters in We Eat Blood. Given the history of transgender representation in popular culture, we are sensitive to these concerns. So is the game’s co-writer Sarah Horrocks, a noted comic artist and horror blogger, who is also a transgender woman. She writes about her views on her blog: http://mercurialblonde.tumblr.com/post/157431573538. Kurieg fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Feb 22, 2017 |
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Feb 22, 2017 21:05
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I Am Just a Box posted:They nuance it up. 2e's position is that the draconic symbolism is effectively a great Shadow Name and Cabal Theme for the Diamond Orders, through which they consciously draw on meaning beyond the basic phenomenal. Chronicles of Darkness: Dark Eras contains a flashpoint during the late days of the empire of Alexander the Great, and displays a variety of distinct supernal cults and philosophies ranging in culture from Greece to India, each of which show visible seeds that would later be incorporated into what become the Diamond Orders. The nature of the orders over time is complicated by the actions of archmasters who consider themselves Exemplars of their former orders; Imperial Mysteries presents the Corpus Author, who Ascended from the 13th Century to incarnate as a living symbol in the Supernal World, embodying her lessons for the doctrine of those who would become the Mysterium across history. Worth noting that, prior to the Corpus Author, the Mysterium was two separate Orders; the Keepers of the Word and the Pancryptiates. The former believed in maintaining fortress-libraries and preserving knowledge at any cost, the latter were weird itinerant mystics who lived in caves and ate dirt and mushrooms that made them trip mad balls until they went out chasing secret knowledge like angry swarming book bees. The Corpus Author wrote the bible of the Mysterium, uniting these two Orders into one by unifying their theology. The Orders over time need to be remembered as a set of common ideals with Supernal resonance but whose importance and interpretation shift drastically over time. The idea that knowledge is sacred, for example, is persistent throughout the many incarnations of the Mysterium, from the Gnostikon through to today, but the forms and ways that ideal has manifested differ drastically. In the West, the majority of mystagogues assemble libraries; vast collections of books that transmit knowledge over time, and see libraries and universities as the pinnacles of learning. That isn't universal, though; many mystagogic traditions believe that learning must be passed on through oral tradition and properly framed by storytellers. You can't learn without experiencing, so their tradition might require ritual and ordeal to open the mind of the learner to new ways of thinking. Obviously a lot of syncretism goes on, but there will always be a dominant set of traditions, metaphysics, and ethics, which act as lenses through which the ancient Order traditions will always be interpreted.
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Feb 22, 2017 21:09
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It's also confirming that they don't care about the position they're putting Onyx Path in, since they're currently employing a lot of Zak's victims. It wouldn't be at all surprising if they lose the dev of several lines over this.
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Feb 22, 2017 21:18
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Whelp, goodbye White Wolf, goodbye Paradox. I'll be voting with my wallet on this one. It was an interesting ride. Shame you didn't listen to the actual criticism and address that. (We still cool, OPP)
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Feb 22, 2017 21:36
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I read through the presser again.quote:Our reading and the conversations we had with people in the industry who have interacted with him in the past did not unearth any new or factual evidence in regards to the more serious allegations periodically made against him. That's some damning word choice there. Did they seriously not have a communications major read this before they published it?
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Feb 22, 2017 21:44
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Toph Bei Fong posted:Whelp, goodbye White Wolf, goodbye Paradox. I'll be voting with my wallet on this one. It was an interesting ride. Shame you didn't listen to the actual criticism and address that. So, are you saying here that you are down with OPP?
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Feb 22, 2017 21:44
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I'm not LGBTQ but from my viewpoint I'd never want to go back to the 90's or be involved in something so nostalgic for it. If you were gay the best you'd get would tolerated and most depictions of gay people were as a side show. You were only accepted if you played the role of a freak. The 90's were way more hosed up then people remember and I have no idea why so many people are nostalgic for them.
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Feb 22, 2017 21:48
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RandallODim posted:So, are you saying here that you are down with OPP? Yeah, you know me!
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Feb 22, 2017 21:48
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Gumball Gumption posted:I'm not LGBTQ but from my viewpoint I'd never want to go back to the 90's or be involved in something so nostalgic for it. If you were gay the best you'd get would tolerated and most depictions of gay people were as a side show. You were only accepted if you played the role of a freak. It's the last time in recent memory America was at peace.
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Feb 22, 2017 21:50
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Gumball Gumption posted:I'm not LGBTQ but from my viewpoint I'd never want to go back to the 90's or be involved in something so nostalgic for it. If you were gay the best you'd get would tolerated and most depictions of gay people were as a side show. You were only accepted if you played the role of a freak. Nostalgia is an inherently reactionary emotion.
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Feb 22, 2017 21:54
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Also it's when a lot of them were children so naturally the world seemed safer, simpler, and more peaceful.
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Feb 22, 2017 21:56
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Night10194 posted:It's the last time in recent memory America was at peace. We were in like, four different wars though to a greater and lesser extent.
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Feb 22, 2017 21:59
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Gumball Gumption posted:I'm not LGBTQ but from my viewpoint I'd never want to go back to the 90's or be involved in something so nostalgic for it. If you were gay the best you'd get would tolerated and most depictions of gay people were as a side show. You were only accepted if you played the role of a freak. Yes but in the 90s if your roleplaying game even so much as acknowleged that LGBTQ people existed you were being dangerous and progressive. Nowadays you actually have to give them positive and aspirational characterizations and Swedracula just doesn't seem to get that. e: VVV I'm a early 30 year old from Minnesota and I at least know of the song. Kurieg fucked around with this message at 22:04 on Feb 22, 2017 |
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Feb 22, 2017 22:01
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Toph Bei Fong posted:Yeah, you know me!  *It's this one, gently caress Minnesota
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Feb 22, 2017 22:03
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Toph Bei Fong posted:Whelp, goodbye White Wolf, goodbye Paradox. I'll be voting with my wallet on this one. It was an interesting ride. Shame you didn't listen to the actual criticism and address that. Same here.
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Feb 22, 2017 22:06
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Worth noting: An era can be really great to set things in precisely because it was a lovely time to live in. Conflict is the essence of drama, and all.
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Feb 22, 2017 22:07
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Kurieg posted:Yes but in the 90s if your roleplaying game even so much as acknowleged that LGBTQ people existed you were being dangerous and progressive. Nowadays you actually have to give them positive and aspirational characterizations and Swedracula just doesn't seem to get that. What's funny is old 90s White Wolf doesn't give ANYONE positive or aspirational characteristics! It's so equal!
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Feb 22, 2017 22:07
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The Old World of Darkness always gives me a mix of nostalgia and revulsion, there was a lot of fun in those games but large swaths of the games are just untenable to me anymore, particularly Werewolf and Changeling. About the only thing I miss is some of the goofiness and humor (both intentional and unintentional), but even that tends to be bundled with nonsense because they were more often than not poo poo at tone, having gooshy gooze in the same book as devil werewolf rape camps. (Also, I spelled "gooshy gooze" right on the first try, what the hell did you do to my brain, White Wolf?)
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Feb 22, 2017 22:08
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There's a lot of possible answers, but yeah, nostalgia is a hell of a drug. Between forgetting the bad parts of the time, being different just because you played games, etc, there's a lot of knee-jerk positive reactions that nostalgia cause if you don't think too hard about it. Also, dear god, how could they gently caress things up before releasing a single full video game? Like, they couldn't have just snuck in a few Zak S sections into Bloodlines 2?
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Feb 22, 2017 22:08
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Kurieg posted:Yes but in the 90s if your roleplaying game even so much as acknowleged that LGBTQ people existed you were being dangerous and progressive. Nowadays you actually have to give them positive and aspirational characterizations and Swedracula just doesn't seem to get that. I think it's more that gay representation has moved on from "we demand to be recognizing; we'll be shocking if we have to" to "we demand to be recognized as human; we don't have to look different from everybody else because we aren't actually". It's kind of hard to fit "we aren't actually that transgressive at all" into nuWW's "all-transgression-all-the-time" aesthetic.
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Feb 22, 2017 22:08
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Night10194 posted:It's the last time in recent memory America was at peace. No one tell this guy about the Gulf War. Or Somalia. Or Haiti. Or Yugoslavia. While I think there's a perverse fixation on the 90s, I don't think it's because it was such a peaceful time. thelazyblank posted:There's a lot of possible answers, but yeah, nostalgia is a hell of a drug. Between forgetting the bad parts of the time, being different just because you played games, etc, there's a lot of knee-jerk positive reactions that nostalgia cause if you don't think too hard about it. how do you know they won't? Like it or not, that game has sold and probably made a profit. Also it had a very active online profile which is good because 
Sion fucked around with this message at 22:18 on Feb 22, 2017 |
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Feb 22, 2017 22:14
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thelazyblank posted:There's a lot of possible answers, but yeah, nostalgia is a hell of a drug. Between forgetting the bad parts of the time, being different just because you played games, etc, there's a lot of knee-jerk positive reactions that nostalgia cause if you don't think too hard about it. If they do the latter, that might be when it finally bites them, as people refuse to buy the game and cause it to become controversial. This lovely little app game has probably paid for itself a few times over by now, but losing sales on a Triple-A title? That's not allowed. This app is waters-testing and, much as they might try and shrug it off, they can't pretend forever to their investors.
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Feb 22, 2017 22:16
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It isn't the last time we were at peace. It's the last time 9/11 wasn't a particularly important day.
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Feb 22, 2017 22:17
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Rand Brittain posted:I think it's more that gay representation has moved on from "we demand to be recognizing; we'll be shocking if we have to" to "we demand to be recognized as human; we don't have to look different from everybody else because we aren't actually". I think you hit on what bugs me the most. It feels like the goal these days for marginalized groups is pushing that they should be recognized as human and existing should not be a transgressive or radical act. This would actually be a great way to go with a monster game and would be really cool to explore. A game about "You have to be this thing outside of the norm and your existence is seen as radical and dangerous, what do you do?" would be a good game. Everything they've seen so far seems to still be that 90's attitude of being as radical as you can be. That stupid "When will you Rage?" tagline.
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Feb 22, 2017 22:21
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Enola Gay-For-Pay posted:It isn't the last time we were at peace. It's the last time 9/11 wasn't a particularly important day. 1972?
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Feb 22, 2017 22:23
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Well, that was a complete non-apology. The most astounding bit to me is they completely fail to bring up the Avery Alder connection, and their defense of the Avery character completely ignores the murderous rapist bits.
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Feb 22, 2017 22:29
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Gumball Gumption posted:That stupid "When will you Rage?" tagline. Plus, it's been spoiled. We will rage when you give a serial harrasser a writing credit on one of your first game releases.
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Feb 22, 2017 22:32
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gourdcaptain posted:Well, that was a complete non-apology. The most astounding bit to me is they completely fail to bring up the Avery Alder connection, and their defense of the Avery character completely ignores the murderous rapist bits. I'm pretty sure, given 'to full assrape stiffness' or whatever from his stories in their anthology, the current head of Actual White Wolf considers that a plus in a character.
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Feb 22, 2017 22:37
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gourdcaptain posted:Well, that was a complete non-apology. The most astounding bit to me is they completely fail to bring up the Avery Alder connection, and their defense of the Avery character completely ignores the murderous rapist bits. Hint: They don't see the character as a murderer or a rapist. Like many others I'll be boycotting White Wolf products and Paradox until this is properly addressed.
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Feb 22, 2017 22:39
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Calde posted:Hint: They don't see the character as a murderer or a rapist. Spoilers: it won't be.
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Feb 22, 2017 22:46
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Kai Tave posted:Spoilers: it won't be. Every time I think WoD in generAL has reached maximum saturation of awful loving garbage nerds, I learn that I was merely ignorant of yet another trash golem perpetuating this medical waste pyroclasm
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Feb 22, 2017 22:53
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Yeah, the idea that "Avery" is somehow a progressive example of representation when they use their transgender status explicitly as a part of their serial killer M.O. seems... Bad.  Other people can probably comment on this better than I. But it just reminds me of the whole stereotype of bisexuality or transgenderism often being just a indicator or side effect of some more dangerous madness, to make a villain more "repulsive" or "transgressive" to past or less progressive audiences. I'm not saying you can't have villainous or even utterly depraved characters with modern, progressive definitions of sexuality beyond just binary. But by defining them by that sexuality you likely play into the same counterproductive and tired stereotypes regardless of intent.
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Feb 22, 2017 23:04
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MC Smoke Sensei posted:Every time I think WoD in generAL has reached maximum saturation of awful loving garbage nerds, I learn that I was merely ignorant of yet another trash golem perpetuating this medical waste pyroclasm I swear they were good during my nostalgia years! (2003 to 2009 I guess).
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Feb 22, 2017 23:06
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MonsieurChoc posted:I swear they were good during my nostalgia years! (2003 to 2009 I guess). Yes CofD is infinitely better barring some unfortunate decisions. That's why it's OPP or nothing for me now to be honest. If Ericsson really is going to poo poo on CofD then there really is nothing left for me there, and I'm sure a lot of other people here feel a similar way.
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Feb 22, 2017 23:11
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My favourite (least favourite) part of it is right near the top where they sayquote:We realise now that it could be interpreted as a dismissal of people’s experiences, and that was never our intention. Nor did we intend to imply that we think anyone was being actively dishonest, and we are very sorry if that’s how it seemed. We understand how hurtful that could seem, and we regret it. So... they believe that people were harassed. They just don't care. Or possibly they believe that people believe they were harassed, which is maybe even worse?
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Feb 22, 2017 23:18
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A key word is "actively" in "actively dishonest". Which implies that maybe you lied, but at least you didn't mean to? Edit: it's so loaded with weasel words it really doesn't mean much of anything.
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Feb 22, 2017 23:21
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Gumball Gumption posted:I'm not LGBTQ but from my viewpoint I'd never want to go back to the 90's or be involved in something so nostalgic for it. If you were gay the best you'd get would tolerated and most depictions of gay people were as a side show. You were only accepted if you played the role of a freak. It was pretty much the last economic boom. The 90's have literally become a neigh unreachable golden decade as far as wealth and job security goes.
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Feb 22, 2017 23:21
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potatocubed posted:My favourite (least favourite) part of it is right near the top where they say All of this just sounds like a continuation of the bad faith bullshit they used to do while the original nerds with cocaine money were still in charge. I hear they won't even fire some of the more heinous motherfuckers from the old guard today because they have too much blackmail material on one another.
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Feb 22, 2017 23:22
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potatocubed posted:My favourite (least favourite) part of it is right near the top where they say they think people are lying about being harassed but don't want to say so
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Feb 22, 2017 23:23
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