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Calibanibal posted:yeah wow i cant believe that the clinton's are supporting the candidate who has no problem sucking wall street's dong, what a shocker I honestly don't care which of them wins. I think they're both pretty much fine. In fact I hope Ellison does win because I'm just scared that the idiots are going to destroy the party (and thus doom us all to being ruled by conservatives forever) because the guy from The Blue Team won and Red Team 4 Lyfe.
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Feb 22, 2017 23:30
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:The problem is that people claim to have knowledge of this poo poo when they clearly don't; and when someone who does tries to explain, why for example Perez shouldn't have been expected to do what they thought, they throw a hissy fit.
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Feb 22, 2017 23:31
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snyprmag posted:If the Dems track record is so good why do they keep losing elections? There's that many people who are just cry babies in your opinion? Well, as both your idiocy and the recent election demonstrate, explaining nuanced policy ideas is hard; shouting "lock 'em up" is easy.
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Feb 22, 2017 23:33
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Or maybe the policy wasn't that good. Also good to keep calling people idiots but expect them to vote for you.
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Feb 22, 2017 23:34
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JeffersonClay posted:Your housing value has returned, in large part because policies like TARP avoided a total economic meltdown. I'm also going out on a limb to suggest your mindset that your housing investment could only go up in price was a big part of the problem. Well, not quite. It wasn't an investment, I lived in it and had to take a loss because I moved. I assume you've never owned a home and experienced the fun of being over 150k upside down on your mortgage for years on end and knowing that your rear end is hanging out. I'll tell you this: it's not pleasant. At least I didn't get evicted. Also stop pretending I'm saying "TARP shouldn't have happened" or "the banks should have catastrophically melted down" because I'm not saying that at all. What I'm saying is that the lion's share of TARP helped banks (they even paid themselves BONUSES) while the rest of the country got hung out to dry. And everyone knows that, even people like me who have brain farts and think that Obama was responsible for it.
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Feb 22, 2017 23:36
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goddamnit these idiots from the idiot team are gonna ruin everything when the smart team's candidate wins aren't they
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Feb 22, 2017 23:36
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snyprmag posted:If the Dems track record is so good why do they keep losing elections? There's that many people who are just cry babies in your opinion? I think there's a lot of reasons Dems have not fared well the last decade or so. I posted about that a few pages ago. Partially I think messaging is a problem. Part of it is just not building infrastructure to support candidates. We need a 50 state strategy. We need to have full-time paid interns working to help support state and local parties. We need to funnel them resources. We need to recruit quality candidates to run for office. We need to work with organizations like the Women's March, like BLM to help them organize. I think the voter base itself has some problems, but my comment was more directed here. But it's a larger problem with society in general. That's why it's important, I think, for us as a party to be sane and to be factual and honest. I don't want to be a party that lies to its supporters and promises them puppies and rainbows -- and being fair, we haven't always been that. We must be consistent and honest.
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Feb 22, 2017 23:37
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losing an election means you are wrong about everything. Winning an election means you are right about everything. Republicans won the last election, and therefore... wait. No. Bernie lost the primary therefore... shoot, give me a minute here.
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Feb 22, 2017 23:37
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Like DWS was loving awful as DNC chair and just rebuilding that will work loving wonders to getting dems back to power, but that's not going to be easy and it's going to take a while.
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Feb 22, 2017 23:42
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Well, not quite. It wasn't an investment, I lived in it and had to take a loss because I moved. That genuinely sucks and I'm sorry you had to deal with that. It was easy to think the real estate market would never stop going up, and that a mortgage would never limit your options because you could always sell at a profit. I've shied away from mortgages and kept renting mostly because I value the flexibility. quote:Also stop pretending I'm saying "TARP shouldn't have happened" or "the banks should have catastrophically melted down" because I'm not saying that at all. What I'm saying is that the lion's share of TARP helped banks (they even paid themselves BONUSES) while the rest of the country got hung out to dry. And everyone knows that, even people like me who have brain farts and think that Obama was responsible for it. TARP wasn't free money it was a short term loan that got paid back with interest. Homeowners being foreclosed upon because they couldn't pay their mortgage would not have been helped, save a very few cases, by short term loans. But they were helped, each and every one, by the economic benefits of avoiding a full on depression.
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Feb 22, 2017 23:47
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:I think there's a lot of reasons Dems have not fared well the last decade or so. I posted about that a few pages ago. Partially I think messaging is a problem. Part of it is just not building infrastructure to support candidates. We need a 50 state strategy. We need to have full-time paid interns working to help support state and local parties. We need to funnel them resources. We need to recruit quality candidates to run for office. We need to work with organizations like the Women's March, like BLM to help them organize. ....nothing economic?
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Feb 22, 2017 23:49
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JeffersonClay posted:losing an election means you are wrong about everything. Winning an election means you are right about everything. Republicans won the last election, and therefore... wait. No. Bernie lost the primary therefore... shoot, give me a minute here. losing an election to a reality tv star who wears tanner and has plugs does in fact mean centrists have been wrong about everything
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Feb 22, 2017 23:49
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:Like DWS was loving awful as DNC chair and just rebuilding that will work loving wonders to getting dems back to power, but that's not going to be easy and it's going to take a while. Just the damage her perm alone did will take aeons to repair
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Feb 22, 2017 23:49
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:....nothing economic? I think if we had better infrastructure and messaging, we would be talking to them about how our policies are designed to help them and improve their lives. I think the shift leftward has been good, we need to do a better job of talking about why that's important and we need to be honest about it.
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Feb 22, 2017 23:52
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Well, not quite. It wasn't an investment, I lived in it and had to take a loss because I moved. If it wasn't an investment then you wouldn't have cared that you were upside down on your mortgage because it would still be better to pay the mortgage then to rent. Whats really impressive is being down 150k. Did you buy a home for 500k with 20% down that was only worth 250k?
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Feb 22, 2017 23:52
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Ogmius815 posted:And all of this is done in the service of making a leadership election between two candidates with very, very similar ideas (and who, by the way, both seem to be prepared to work with the other) into a rancorous and damaging factional grudge match simply because one candidate is perceived as coming from Team Bernie and the other Team Obama/Clinton (which is the same team now somehow). It's loving nuts. The only people I yell at are the ones who think a Perez win is Treason Against The People, I'm actually pretty happy with both options ( and Bootijedge) 
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Feb 22, 2017 23:53
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:I think if we had better infrastructure and messaging, we would be talking to them about how our policies are designed to help them and improve their lives. I think the shift leftward has been good, we need to do a better job of talking about why that's important and we need to be honest about it. or you could show them. for example, by putting the people responsible for the 2008 crash behind bars. or at least not let them continue to freely prey upon the poor. oh wait we're dems so we can't actually do that. but we can tell them how good things will be in 30 years if they keep voting for us!
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Feb 22, 2017 23:55
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a perez win is literally treasonous
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Feb 22, 2017 23:56
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What's the thread's opinion on Greene?
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Feb 22, 2017 23:56
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Condiv posted:or you could show them. for example, by putting the people responsible for the 2008 crash behind bars. or at least not let them continue to freely prey upon the poor. oh wait we're dems so we can't actually do that. but we can tell them how good things will be in 30 years if they keep voting for us! Yes, I totally think that. I agree, we shouldn't at all propose tougher penalties, including jailtime for fraud. Yes, I totally said that. Keep boxing at shadows. Lightning Lord posted:What's the thread's opinion on Greene? Who? BI NOW GAY LATER fucked around with this message at 00:00 on Feb 23, 2017 |
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Feb 22, 2017 23:58
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Condiv posted:losing an election to a reality tv star who wears tanner and has plugs does in fact mean centrists have been wrong about everything Is this retroactive? is there some sort of timeline fuckery going on that makes my prediction that Bernie would get blown out in the primary wrong? Clearly we were wrong about some things, and the belief that trump would be easy to beat is first on the list.
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Feb 22, 2017 23:58
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Lightning Lord posted:What's the thread's opinion on Greene? Who?  She'd probably be fine too, she ran Rock The Vote which did a decent job of energizing youngfolks. poo poo-all for party connections compared to Ellison and Perez, which you can take as good or bad.
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Feb 23, 2017 00:01
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go to a if you're serious, b if you're not a) Jehmu Greene. b) lol good one, totally agree.
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Feb 23, 2017 00:01
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Lightning Lord posted:go to a if you're serious, b if you're not It was B, but I like her. I don't know how she brings herself to go on Fox though.
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Feb 23, 2017 00:03
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Lightning Lord posted:go to a if you're serious, b if you're not She can join Butt Mayor's clubhouse for people who would be fine at this job but also have no shot at it.
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Feb 23, 2017 00:03
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They should implement ranked choice voting.
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Feb 23, 2017 00:11
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Based on hair, who's the best candidate? Like, we all agree that DWS' tragic perm is part of what led the Dems to disaster, right?BI NOW GAY LATER posted:It was B, but I like her. I don't know how she brings herself to go on Fox though. I imagine they give their token progressive targets a lot of scrilla.
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Feb 23, 2017 00:12
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Lightning Lord posted:Based on hair, who's the best candidate? Like, we all agree that DWS' tragic perm is part of what led the Dems to disaster, right? Greene by default. Perez should probably just cut to the chase and shave his head, and Ellison keeps his hair boring.
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Feb 23, 2017 00:15
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karthun posted:If it wasn't an investment then you wouldn't have cared that you were upside down on your mortgage because it would still be better to pay the mortgage then to rent. As JeffersonClay pointed out, being 150k upside down means that if you need to change residences or downsize your payment, you either ruin your credit or cough up the dough. Having a 150k Sword of Damocles hanging over my head for years on end was not fun. Silly thing to say.
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Feb 23, 2017 00:18
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Obama wouldn't even attack the banks rhetotically. Pretending like there is no middle ground between an utter lack of accountability for bank executives and "gassing" bank executives is pure obfuscation.JeffersonClay posted:Is this retroactive? is there some sort of timeline fuckery going on that makes my prediction that Bernie would get blown out in the primary wrong? E: too bad we don't have a time machine. Otherwise we could go back to 2015 and find out just how correct the centrists were about Bernie Sanders' primary chances, how many states and votes he would win, etc 
The Kingfish fucked around with this message at 00:46 on Feb 23, 2017 |
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Feb 23, 2017 00:34
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The Kingfish posted:Obama wouldn't even attack the banks rhetotically. Pretending like there is no middle ground between an utter lack of accountability for bank executives and "gassing" bank executives is pure obfuscation. There's just no point, this thread is a bunch of bad faith poo poo and I include myself in that. Bring on Ellison or Perez and let's see what they do. edit: looking to be Perez if you believe the rumors/AP: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/eb51ce519f9c430fbf5bff5a42b441ca/dnc-race-remains-tight-energized-democrats-combat-trump Megaman's Jockstrap fucked around with this message at 01:05 on Feb 23, 2017 |
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Feb 23, 2017 00:49
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snyprmag posted:If the Dems track record is so good why do they keep losing elections? There's that many people who are just cry babies in your opinion?
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Feb 23, 2017 01:41
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Main Paineframe posted:- Bill Clinton, in 1990, explaining why the Dems have to turn right because they'd just lost three presidential elections in a row It worked in '92 but the electorate has changed a little since then. Both him and Obama could get elected, but didn't build enough of a legacy for others to run on.
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Feb 23, 2017 02:03
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The CNN debate is tonight at 10 ET. Looks like all of the candidates are going to be there.
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Feb 23, 2017 02:03
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The Kingfish posted:Obama wouldn't even attack the banks rhetotically. Pretending like there is no middle ground between an utter lack of accountability for bank executives and "gassing" bank executives is pure obfuscation. Obama, 3 months in, blaming Wall Street greed and incompetence for the crisis. quote:Recessions are not uncommon. Markets and economies naturally ebb and flow, as we have seen many times in our history. But this recession is different. This recession was not caused by a normal downturn in the business cycle. It was caused by a perfect storm of irresponsibility and poor decision-making that stretched from Wall Street to Washington to Main Street. Let me guess, that's not good enough?
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Feb 23, 2017 02:07
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JeffersonClay posted:Is this retroactive? is there some sort of timeline fuckery going on that makes my prediction that Bernie would get blown out in the primary wrong? yes cause he didn't get blown out 
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Feb 23, 2017 02:08
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JeffersonClay posted:Obama, 3 months in, blaming Wall Street greed and incompetence for the crisis. words are cheap
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Feb 23, 2017 02:09
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Ogmius815 posted:The point is that saying Perez is a bootlicker for the monstrous crime of letting a beneficial settlement happen and not putting bankers in jail makes you look like a goddamn hack you monumental ignoramus. If I burn down your house, is the county prosecutor also getting in the way of a generous settlement, if I offer you a fiver to let me off the hook?
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Feb 23, 2017 02:11
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JeffersonClay posted:TARP wasn't about anything but making sure the banks didn't collapse like dominoes and unfreezing credit markets to get the economy out of free fall. I dare say marching all the banking executives off to the gas chambers would have made both goals more difficult to achieve. If that's really what the people wanted, I'm glad the people in charge didn't listen. Indulging the electorate's dumbest ideas can have lovely consequences.
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Feb 23, 2017 02:15
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JeffersonClay posted:Obama, 3 months in, blaming Wall Street greed and incompetence for the crisis. And what exactly did Obama do with the remaining 93 months?
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Feb 23, 2017 02:17
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