|
My Lovely Horse posted:so 30-40?
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2017 18:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 8, 2024 23:06 |
|
|
That has occurred to me. Think I'll go with that. If I go this route, that is; this fight is giving me a bit of trouble and I'm running out of design time. I have two or three ways it could go, mechanically, and I guess I'll just implement whatever phase 3 seems appropriate after seeing how the party copes with the onset. They should all be fun to play, some are just more complex than others. If they struggle adapting to the mechanics during phases 1 and 2 I'll make it simple, if they curbstomp the boss I can pull something mean out of my hat for the last push. I'm really looking forward to our Gardmore Abbey run now. Not having to worry about encounter design is a strong appeal right now. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2017 18:40
|
|
|
So it looks like I'm getting sucked into playing X-Crawl (https://x-crawl-4e.obsidianportal.com/), which means that I need to get the character builder & CBloader back. Does anyone know how to get it at this point? 
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2017 01:50
|
|
|
Drewjitsu posted:So it looks like I'm getting sucked into playing X-Crawl (https://x-crawl-4e.obsidianportal.com/), which means that I need to get the character builder & CBloader back. I certainly wouldnt be someone to PM about that. No sir-ee
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2017 01:55
|
|
|
Spiteski posted:I certainly wouldnt be someone to PM about that. No sir-ee Alas, my kingdom for a horse! EDIT: I have a horse now. Legit Businessman fucked around with this message at 02:43 on Feb 9, 2017 |
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2017 01:59
|
|
|
My Lovely Horse posted:Putting the final touches on my campaign end boss. I can't decide what a good additional effect for a necrotic attack is - weakened or losing a healing surge? So far everyone's always had a few surges left when they went into extended rests, so they should have some to spare. And surge damage seems like a neat idea to get the paladin to panic a bit, because he's been saving his Lay on Hands specifically for this fight. By contrast weakened just feels like a "make the fight longer" effect. That fourthcore iron lich adventure had a final boss fight that tossed nether damage out with some attacks - it's like necrotic damage, but it's permanent. Good times...
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2017 03:16
|
|
|
That's a great idea! Wish I'd thought of it. We finished the campaign last weekend and went out with a bang. Before the fight the boss and the paladin started debating the merits of benevolent dictatorship vs. unrestrained freedom at length until the rest of the party kicked off the fight to shut them up. Then the boss killed the paladin with his last breath, and I quickly hashed something out with the player - now their souls are united in an artifact and they can watch the world and argue whose side won forever. e: at one point the paladin had so many defense benefits from Second Wind & Defensive Weapon and the boss had such crippling attack penalties that we actually got to apply the rule where a natural 20 is only a normal hit if 20 + attack bonus is still lower than the defense. It doesn't just take up space! Neck deep in preparations for Madness at Gardmore Abbey now, and I'm looking forward to it immensely. My group made a balanced party after all - 1 defender, 2 strikers (melee and ranged), 2 leaders (one focusing on defense/THP, one on extra attacks) and a controller. This should enable them to handle even those encounters that are, frankly, unfair, so I don't think I'll even give them the defender companions unless it turns out they really need one. Cuts down on time taken to go around the initiative, too. Since one of the defenders' quest chain involves them tagging along, I'll change their motivation slightly: Sir Oakley has taken up a vow never to raise arms again. Perhaps hastily, now that he's facing an abbey full of monsters, but by Bahamut he's gonna stick to it, so he needs hired swords. Since he's also my Secret Collector, this should add some drama when he eventually turns on the party and does draw his sword on them. And if he's with the party when they play the game of secrets with the nymphs, I can come up with something to explain the vow. I'm considering giving the party some kind of passive benefit as long as he's with them, though. A minor bonus to healing? An inexhaustible supply of Lay On Hands (refluffed healing potions)? Simply his service as a torchbearer/additional set of hands/ally for flanking and cover? My Lovely Horse fucked around with this message at 13:45 on Feb 9, 2017 |
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2017 13:06
|
|
|
My Lovely Horse posted:now their souls are united in an artifact and they can watch the world and argue whose side won forever. You should consider having that artifact show up in a future adventure you run sometime.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2017 16:50
|
|
|
That's a good idea and I will if I have the opportunity. Apropos of nothing, isn't there some item like a cape that lets you pull patches off it that turn into useful things? Was that a 3.5 thing and if so, did it ever make the transition? I vaguely remember it. e: literally the Robe of Useful Items, goddamn e2: and it did make the transition, but it's a Mordenkainen thing. Here's a proper question: was it in an earlier book? My Lovely Horse fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Feb 9, 2017 |
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2017 17:16
|
|
|
Let them still be able to choose to use the hirelings even though they now have a traditional composition. It's their choice to make, not yours. Also, that way you don't need to mess around with this passive benefit stuff. They can direct the hirelings to "stay a safe distance back until we give the all clear," to keep them from leeching XP, and still let them be able to call them into a fight that they want to make easier. Also, all the fights are fair, because they're sane CRs, especially with a party of 6 with a potential hireling or two. If you start seeing mechanics or whatever as unfair you'll start apologizing or pulling punches when it's the PCs that should be adapting. I've told my party after some complaints to use the magic item shop in Winterhaven to buy cheap save reroll items–Phylactery of Action, Flowform Armor, somesuch amulet–and for them to retrain into save granting powers because they've been getting messed up by stuns and dazes. I think people see the module as unfair and overpowered because its level range is right when enemy hp has started to scale past the level where strikers can comfortably oneshot things with the standout feats and powers of early Heroic tier. PCs whose builds were enjoying lots of effectiveness have just started to fall off to the point where they need to play smarter and accept that they're going to take some hits and some status effects that are worse than just ongoing damage or slowing.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2017 18:24
|
|
|
My Lovely Horse posted:That's a good idea and I will if I have the opportunity. Robe of Useful Items dates back to AD&D 2E, at least.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2017 04:50
|
|
|
There is some weird stuff in this adventure. Really minor things, but weird. Like how treasure for one encounter is "a level 6 common neck slot item" when in all of 4E there has only ever been one neck slot item that's level 6. I guess I should be glad it is in fact common, although that means 2/3 of the party have already picked it for starting equipment. For this and other reasons I'm probably gonna rework the treasure a bit. There are a few named and adventure-specific items, and I'll leave those entirely alone. Some of them work as quest items anyway. There's only one item that's flat out useless to anyone, but it's a holy symbol of Bahamut, and the defender is a worshipper - maybe I'll make it so he gets the associated divine boon while he wears it. Then there are five generic items. I have six PCs, and thanks to the starting item rules they each have two +2 items and one +1 item. I don't think it's out of line to pick a +2 item for each to replace their +1 (have each player pick one, even) and distribute these through the adventure. I'm thinking one for each "boss" encounter - the orc chieftain, the beholder, the dragon, the temple, Vadin, and the rival party.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2017 09:49
|
|
|
You keep looking for excuses to help the party out with free poo poo, but in doing that you rob them of the chance to actually beat the module on their own. You shouldn't do that without asking them first. If they ask for it without trying the module out as is first they're weenies 
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2017 11:08
|
|
|
I'm not saying that's not what I'm accidentally doing and I am taking this to heart, but what I'm trying to do is adapt the adventure to our party composition, without going overboard but also without their choices robbing them of goodies the adventure gives the party and, presumably, assumes they'll have. Like, the adventure gives the party defender NPCs, but additional NPCs make things inconvenient to run, so I'm thinking about ways to make an NPC presence worthwhile without having an extra combattant. ("Inconvenient" isn't just something I think will happen but a verbatim complaint from my group I remember from the last game.) And the adventure gives out magic items but they're either pre-picked and useless to the party as is, or limited in scope in a way that the only items I could pick are also of no benefit to anyone. I feel that's a design flaw so I'm looking for ways to get around that, too. The reason I feel it's a design flaw is because I think if you find a magic item someone should be excited about it instead of going "well at least we can get 20% of its value at the shop, again." On reflection, though, one thing I don't need to do is tailor the items to their class choice. "Here's a +2 thing, you might like it better than the one you specifically selected, or you might not." e: and obviously if I do this I should watch out that they don't all end up with level 10 rares My Lovely Horse fucked around with this message at 13:20 on Feb 13, 2017 |
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2017 11:34
|
|
|
In my Zeitgeist game, the players talked their way out of not one, but two fights. Granted, one was more an 'oops you hosed up' fight but nevertheless I'm vaguely disappointed.  And proud, I guess, but man.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2017 05:30
|
|
|
dwarf74 posted:In my Zeitgeist game, the players talked their way out of not one, but two fights. Which module are you on?
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2017 20:12
|
|
|
Mordiceius posted:Which module are you on?
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2017 05:58
|
|
|
dwarf74 posted:Adventure 11. Getting close to wrapping it all up. How did things go with the end of adventure 9 with the possible death of the king? I'm sad that my group fell apart because I think I was looking forward to that scene more than anything. In my group, there was this dwarf that just loving idolized the king. Like the dwarves parents had such respect for the king that he was named after the king. So when the dwarf met the king for the first time, he had such reverence. Meanwhile everyone else was just kind of more aloof about it. I was so excited to eventually crown him king.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2017 20:10
|
|
|
Mordiceius posted:How did things go with the end of adventure 9 with the possible death of the king? And what's more the king really does have to die or abdicate for Adventure 10 to make any sense or even work at all. That whole scene could have been written better, is what I'm saying. It wasn't near as hard as advertised. But hey, it worked out in the end and now Risur has a gnoll king.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2017 22:32
|
|
|
I want to run a 4e group style game where basically groups of goons just sign up and want to do poo poo. West Marches Style, what's a good program to implement that? Does Roll20 have Hexographer tiles and poo poo like that? And what's a good way to get Goons to say "Hey I want to play this night with these people" without having the game die?
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2017 06:16
|
|
|
Turtlicious posted:I want to run a 4e group style game where basically groups of goons just sign up and want to do poo poo. West Marches Style, what's a good program to implement that? Does Roll20 have Hexographer tiles and poo poo like that? And what's a good way to get Goons to say "Hey I want to play this night with these people" without having the game die? Discord could be good for running this, in conjunction with FG, maptools, or R20 for combat tracker/map management. Discord has some good die rolling bots, too. Persistant chat/voice channels. As for getting goons to play, iunno, but this sounds rad as hell and the sort of poo poo I play on 5e communities because it doesnt exist for 4e anywhere I've found.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2017 07:49
|
|
|
I've come away from the idea of reworking the Gardmore Abbey treasure. I still think it's a good idea in principle, but I realized that my players have picked quite good starting equipment. There's just not much magic armor I can give a Warlord that's better than Chieftain's, even if his is only +1, and having "the same but +2" as treasure is kinda lame. Plus, if they sell all the items they can sort-of-but-not-really-use, they'll have more than enough to beef up all their +1 stuff anyway.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2017 10:49
|
|
|
My Lovely Horse posted:I've come away from the idea of reworking the Gardmore Abbey treasure. I still think it's a good idea in principle, but I realized that my players have picked quite good starting equipment. There's just not much magic armor I can give a Warlord that's better than Chieftain's, even if his is only +1, and having "the same but +2" as treasure is kinda lame. Plus, if they sell all the items they can sort-of-but-not-really-use, they'll have more than enough to beef up all their +1 stuff anyway.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2017 11:02
|
|
|
This is more generic feedback, since I know My Lovely Horse is running a module, but there was a time when I had trouble doling out treasure in 4e. The whole wishlist thing means that I'd know what to "drop", but then I'd have to think about what pace to dole it out, and who gets their wishlisted items earlier or later. It also locks out a lot of possibilities for dropping items that you think are neat, because they're almost always going to be disenchanted to make more gold for the next wishlisted item. So what I ended up doing (on top of, of course, Inherent Bonuses) was to just give the players their wealth-by-level in gold (and even a little more) as the main part of the treasure, so that they could just buy whatever wishlisted item they wanted (and the moderating factor was when they would or could go back to town), and then I could focus on giving them little trinkets of cool abilities and powers, either as oneshot effects, daily powers, or encounter powers. And since these items were created out of whole cloth, outside of the extant printed item lists, I could also say "yes this necklace stacks with whatever you have in your mechanical necklace slot" because I wouldn't be locking them out of their important necklace slot anyway.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2017 14:00
|
|
|
What are good ways for 4e characters to see invisible creatures?
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2017 21:36
|
|
|
dwarf74 posted:What are good ways for 4e characters to see invisible creatures?
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2017 21:51
|
|
|
Dust of Appearance (level 13 wondrous item from the PHB) reveals invisible creatures in its radius, similar to ye olden glitterdust. I only know about it because I searched the offline CB for "glitter" and "dust" and found it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2017 22:13
|
|
|
There's a decent level 6 skill power for anyone trained in dungeoneering.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2017 22:41
|
|
|
Training in Arcana can get you a level 6 utility encounter power that gives blindsight 3. Stance, so lasts the entire encounter, every encounter. e: Or if you don't want to spend real resources, Powder of Appearance (8, consumable) TheDemon fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Feb 23, 2017 |
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2017 00:14
|
|
|
dwarf74 posted:What are good ways for 4e characters to see invisible creatures? Items that ignore invisible -Eye of Watchfulness (level 17 head slot) grants the ability to see invisible creatures full stop (making it probably your best bet), Jarlaxe's Eyepatch is that item but also a level 27 rare unique with the additional property of "enemies roll twice on attacks vs. your will" -Ring of Kharid is a level 27 ring that grants +5 item bonus to Perception/Insight and lets you see invisible creatures, plus has a sustainable daily that strips invisibility from things within 5 squares -Ioun Stone of True Sight is a level 28 head slot that grants +6 item bonus to Perception/Insight with a sustainable daily that lets you see invisible creatures. Book of Five Truths- the Fifth Truth is this item but in Boon form. -Spirit Eyes is a level 18 boon that makes your attacks ignore concealment and lets you see invisible creatures until EoNT as a daily Items that grant blindsight -Powered Armor grants Blindsight with a radius equal to its enhancement bonus, but is powered armor so not necessarily a good fit for all campaigns. And tries to restrain and suffocate you if you roll a natural 1 on an attack. -Eye of Prophecy is a level 15 Wondrous item that boosts Nature rituals and also has an EoE blindsight 5 daily power -Unguent of Blindsight is a level 21 consumable that grants Blindsight 10 until EoE as a standard. -Eyes of the Dragon is a level 23 head slot that grants +6 item bonus to perception and has a daily that lets you get Blindsight 5 until the end of the encounter -Nightmare's Unseeing stance is a level 17 boon with a daily stance that blinds you and gives you blindsight 5, or blindsight 10 when augmented with a power point. -Grimlock Helm is a level 17 helm with a daily that blinds you and grants you blindsight 5 Items that ignore total/any concealment long-term -Scout's Bow is a level 8+ cross/bow that lets you tag a target as a daily and track it and ignore concealment until EoE Paragon Paths -Darkstrider is a ranger (or rogue MC ranger) paragon path that grants blindsight 3+Wis mod as its level 16 feature and has some great features. -Transcendent Perfection is a monk paragon path that makes it so you can see adjacent invisible creatures as its level 16 feature -Legendary Witch paragon path lets you see adjacent invisible creatures at level 11, but... why are you a witch and why are you next to an enemy? Epic Destinies -Perfect Guardian (warden epic destiny) grants the ability to see invisible creatures within 5 squares and a bonus to checks to find hidden creatures as its level 24 feature -Heir of Syberis has a level 26 daily that lets grants blindsight 10 until EoE Feats -Thri-Keen Antenna is a heroic feat that gives blindsight 1 and a feat bonus to perception/insight checks. Requires being a bug or someone with the ability to poach their stuff -Sight of the Familiar is a paragon feat that grants you the senses of your familiar when it's in passive mode. Bats, Floating Polyps, Wrabs and Chaos Shards all have blindsight. Least Earth Elemental is a familiar that lets you see anything in its square so long as both are touching the same thing, but requires it to be active -Blind-fight is an epic feat requiring 13+ Wis or Perception training that makes it so adjacent creatures gain no benefit from concealment and adjacent creatures are effectively visible to you -Font of Radiance is an epic feat that makes it so when you crit with a radiant attack, the target and squares adjacent glow, doing damage and removing concealment for anything in it -Uncanny Scent is an epic feat that makes minotaurs ignore concealment and invisibility within 2 squares -Limning Challenge is an epic paladin feat that makes your attacks ignore concealment vs. targets you've sanctioned/challenged -Shadow Eyes is a rogue epic feat that means you only take a -2 penalty against targets with total concealment and ignore regular concealment Depending on the group make-up sometimes it's enough to have someone spot the target and everyone else tag it with AoEs or accurate attacks or things that ignore concealment. Or powers that make it so your opponent can't benefit from concealment such as darkfire (drow racial), ringing weapon (bard encounter 1/13/27), assassin's bane (level 2 warlock daily utility that creates a sustainable zone that stops concealment/teleporting/shifting), dispel the darkness (level 9 paladin power that creates an aura 3 until EoE), sure sight (level 16 seeker daily that lets you ignore concealment and the like until EoE) supernal radiance/gaze of the sun (level 19 cleric dailies), eyes of the mage (level 22 swordmage daily utility that lets you ignore concealment and see invisible creatures until EoE) Diseases -Faceless Hate is a disease that makes you blind but with blindsight and also makes you an unrelenting killing machine v v
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2017 02:01
|
|
|
I could have sworn there was either a Gladiator-type class feature in one of the Dragon Magazines that would blind you, but give you Blindsight in exchange.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2017 03:00
|
|
|
Have there been any good and/or fun homebrew fixes/new options for the Vampire?
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2017 04:47
|
|
|
-Fish- posted:Have there been any good and/or fun homebrew fixes/new options for the Vampire? The problem with the Vampire is that it lacks proper Striker features. It's feasible as a Multiclass or Hybrid option for some Rogues, but it simply doesn't have a good enough damage booster or damage scaling to be considered a Striker on its own, and even with something as simple as a situational +1d8 per tier, it'd still need an additional feature such as multi-hit attacks or minor action options for reliability and power. Most importantly, Vampires have very little feat support, just like the Shadow power source in general. Here's a few things that might work out. 1) By default giving them "highest ability score to HP," as per Born Under A Bad Sign/Auspicious Birth. They already have only 3 surges, so they need an HP buffer. 2) Give them a Striker feature. +1d8 damage per tier to Bloodied enemies is simple, but works well enough as a striker feature to allow them to quickly finish off things softened up by the rest of the group. 3) Something they can do with their minor action/additional attacks in general. They don't need to be a Ranger, but even something as simple as an Immediate Action counter-strike as an Encounter power would vastly increase their survivability and damage output. 4) Feat support. Whether for the Vampire class itself, the Shadow power source, or for the Ki Focus, they're severely lacking for feats to invest into. I know this isn't what you wanted, but it's a concise list of what you could do to work on fixes.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2017 05:33
|
|
|
Holy poo poo, thanks LightWarden. Thinking of seeding something to them. Lots of invisible poo poo this adventure.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2017 05:55
|
|
|
-Fish- posted:Have there been any good and/or fun homebrew fixes/new options for the Vampire? Multiclass for power swap + weapliments + potentially better PP, basically. Sorcerer is really good because of Flame Spiral, Demonskin Adept, and dagger weapliments; paladin, fighter, rogue can also work, though fighter requires you to be a bit weird about it. If your game doesn't have dragon shards, you don't have to worry so much about weapliments. You absolutely want a theme that gives you better damage on pre-existing attacks, so that's sarifal feywarden or were-x, due to how Vampire Slam works. Or you just play as something else and take vampire as your multiclass, or just play as a Vryloka, which is probably the actual easiest answer. The general problem with vampires is that they're not good at, uh, anything in particular. They're set up as strikers, but don't actually do enough damage - much as how bladesingers are set up as controllers and have no powers that allow them to actually control and were only called "controllers" because, well, that's what wizards are, right? And much like Binders, who likewise are meant to be controllers, and have no way to actually control. They were very clearly made by someone who didn't actually know much about 4e, just like most of the other e-classes. That is because Essentials was literally created to purposefully sink 4e to clear the way for 5e. So the answer is: don't be a vampire, unless you really want to challenge yourself. Be a vryloka. Or take "I'm a vampire" as a feat. Vampire can't really be fixed because it wasn't made to be fixed. It's not a class that has just this one small flaw - it's one that, in it's entirety, does not work.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2017 06:16
|
|
|
Be the (hybrid) Vampire Revenant that never sleeps and slowly gets stronger for every milestone reached. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2017 09:36
|
|
|
-Fish- posted:Have there been any good and/or fun homebrew fixes/new options for the Vampire? A Vampire|Rogue hybrid is pretty workable while still being pretty thematic for a Vampire.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2017 10:03
|
|
|
The best "Vampire" PC we had was a Vryloka Brawler Fighter with the vampiric heritage feat chain. Lots of wrestling people and then doing vampire things to them.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2017 11:18
|
|
|
I've often felt that Vampire should be a theme, or maybe you can split it's 'controlling' vs. 'bloodsucking' aspects into different themes.. Then again, I think the same thing about warlocks...
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2017 12:55
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 8, 2024 23:06 |
|
|
I got decent mileage out of a Dragonborn Bravura Warlord that MC'd vampire, just attack things and grant extra attacks to everyone in the fight. Oh you go to geek the healer? Me and my Minotaur pal get to swing at you too. Oh I'm bloodied? Cool I do more damage, let's fuckin' go. This fights ending quickly, one way or the other. Martial Vampire means +1 surge when you get bloodied and 1 for hitting with an encounter power so real easy to end a fight with more than your max surges. Wouldn't recommend doing this at level 1 though. MC vampire requires sinking at least two feats to start working. You could probably even skip the +2 surges feat with Martial Vampire but otherwise it's required.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2017 12:56
|
|
