|
Natty Ninefingers posted:Believe me, we've thought about it. I can easily double my income, which would more than take up the slack. As I said, thirty percent, but that may be a bit overblown. East of I-5 and make sure your home is earthquake rated.
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2017 13:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 19:43 |
|
|
EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:East of I-5 and make sure your home is earthquake rated. this will keep them out of the tsunami zone but will put them right in the firey megavolcano zone
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2017 14:52
|
|
|
CarForumPoster posted:If it is Apple, PM me. Not for Apple, but thank you. And thanks to all for the advice on avoiding total compensation discussion with the recruiter, etc. I'm now about 99% certain an offer is incoming as I had a good follow-up interview with the manager's manager and the recruiter just sent me the following message: "Now that we are in the final stage of the interview process I'm hoping you could provide your current salary." How best to politely respond to this question? Should I just name my target salary at this point and ignore the current salary request? As mentioned, I'm looking for at least 12-15% higher salary than current. I thought I might respond with: "I'm looking for a position with a Bay Area competitive salary at the senior level, commensurate with my experience. I'm looking for $XXX". Then, if really pressed to reveal current, say that I'm looking for a %15 increase and that's what $XXX would be?
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2017 19:54
|
|
|
quote:"I'm looking for a position with a Bay Area competitive salary at the senior level, commensurate with my experience. I'm looking for $XXX". This sounds fine. You can always try to go with the "it is against company policy to reveal my compensation" line. Alternatively, if you are really feeling ballsy there's always "No."
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2017 19:58
|
|
|
Caustic posted:I thought I might respond with: "I'm looking for a position with a Bay Area competitive salary at the senior level, commensurate with my experience. I'm looking for $XXX". Then, if really pressed to reveal current, say that I'm looking for a %15 increase and that's what $XXX would be? I wouldn't include a number at this point, just reiterate the competitive salary line. If they press, blather about "good fit" or "total compensation". If they really press, directly ask if their intention is to begin a negotiation and, if so, when can you expect to see the rest of the offer?
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2017 21:39
|
|
|
Caustic posted:Not for Apple, but thank you. And thanks to all for the advice on avoiding total compensation discussion with the recruiter, etc. Can always reply, "I'm glad we're in the final stages can you please provide the amount budgeted for the role?"
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2017 01:07
|
|
|
Dodge the salary question by requesting a full overview of the total benefits and compensation package, because it is absolutely true that you can't gauge the necessary salary without the total comp information. And when you can't dodge anymore, aim high.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2017 20:54
|
|
|
Headhunter: Congratulations! You got the job! $ an hour! No benefits! "Can I get a little more?" We negotiated to $+.50 "EH, I'll take it" *Don't hear back from him for nearly a week, contact the contract house directly* No, we went with someone else cheaper. WELP.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2017 22:31
|
|
|
I'm trying to figure out how to best work this current situation. I'm not happy with my current employer who I have been with for almost four years. We have very few benefits and it is a hostile, poorly managed environment. Morale is low among the entire office. I recently got an advanced license that allows me to bill independently and supervise, and I put several applications in with other agencies about a week ago. However, I'm having difficulty finding really good positions until I get a second advanced license, which could take me some time to accomplish. It could take me anywhere from 4 months to a year to get that second license. The owners have been saying they want to move me into a supervisory role, and I believe they will likely make me an offer in the next week or two. Basically, one of the owners has been taking on extra responsibilities and by giving me a supervisory role his position will become much less stressful. If they call me in to offer me a position before I have any interviews or offers, how should I best position myself? I don't want to take the position only to resign shortly thereafter if I get a better offer, and I don't want to put this offer off only to have these applications fall through.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2017 08:01
|
|
|
Macaroni Surprise posted:I'm trying to figure out how to best work this current situation. I'm not happy with my current employer who I have been with for almost four years. We have very few benefits and it is a hostile, poorly managed environment. Morale is low among the entire office. I recently got an advanced license that allows me to bill independently and supervise, and I put several applications in with other agencies about a week ago. However, I'm having difficulty finding really good positions until I get a second advanced license, which could take me some time to accomplish. It could take me anywhere from 4 months to a year to get that second license. Work on your reality, not on hypotheticals. The reality is that you are not positioned, with your current licenses, to get the really good positions. The reality is that the position you are being offered is an actual improvement to your current employment. The reality is that you have no other offers you are presently entertaining. The reality is that your company is managed poorly, and poorly managing a company has certain costs, among those costs is employee retention. The reality is that you do not get to choose how your company is managed. The reality is that the people who are potentially moving you into a supervisory role do get to choose how your company is managed. Take the position. Look at other opportunities. If you find an actual better one, take it and give your current employers advance notice (e.g. 4 weeks instead of 2) to replace you. You don't owe your employer any more loyalty than they have demonstrated toward you and your coworkers.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2017 16:17
|
|
|
Fair enough, thank you.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2017 17:46
|
|
|
Anyone have any experience negotiating offers that are for a defined role with set pay bands? I believe the pay increments up to the next band annually, and there are around 10 bands. I've got an interview for one such position this week, and while I don't currently have an offer in hand, it's something I've been wondering about. I'm not sure if there are any other considerations to take into account when negotiating, or if it should be treated like any other job offer. The difference between the low and high ends for the pay range for this position is around $20,000, and in order for me to be comfortable with relocating for the job I'd want to be closer to the high end.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2017 17:59
|
|
|
murked by dragon posted:In order for me to be comfortable with relocating for the job, I'd want to be closer to the high end. I think stating this clearly at the time they make an offer is probably your best case.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 18:48
|
|
|
I work in the public sector and while I don't have a whole lot of experience yet, I've gotten the max amount for the starting range/bands for all of my recent positions using the advice in this thread. For me it seemed easier as the ranges you work with are publicly available whereas otherwise I would have had to do a lot more research. I worked for government and am currently working for another public body -- steps up to the next bands depend on seniority and the classification of the positions, so there's no leeway to shift the range, so to speak.* Your starting band is your starting band. That being said, the position I'm currently applying for I will be asking for increased compensation, so the job (which is newly created) may get re-classed as otherwise a raise wouldn't be possible (new position is graded the same as my current one). Depending on your situation, there might be room for similar accommodation. The way you speak of bands makes me think of public bodies. I think, however, that because we're not part of a union it's easier to re-class jobs and play around with them then say, my previous employer where there was absolutely no leeway for union positions. In my experience, if there's a set band for a defined position there's very little room for negotiation. If it's a unique position, like the one I describe above... maybe? I hope that's helpful. *This is not true for excluded positions, who do not have bands.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 23:01
|
|
|
I'll do a little autobiographical run down as I just started a new job I accepted a little over a week ago. There was some negotiation involved, but I think it might be valuable as a demonstration of how I played a relatively poor hand. Last year I accepted a position making $15k more than I was previously, less travel, 30 days vacation / year, contributed HSA, fully covered health insurance, life insurance, dental, vision, 401k with match to 3%, and significant equity. I get to work remotely every day of the week for most of the year, with occasional travel to company HQ. This was my good play and I got a good hand. Over the year, the HSA stopped receiving contributions entirely, the health insurance was replaced with a less ideal plan, the vacation policy was waggled into a "disruptive" no set vacation policy, and some things didn't look great. I've been in my field for some time, so I started looking at other options, and saw that a former coworker's company was hiring. My pay is above the advertised salary range by ~%6, and I discussed this frankly. Finding a place with less drama and an upward as opposed to a downward benny trajectory at the same salary would have been a good move in my opinion. As I reiterate, know when you've won. He informed me that they'd just hired two people in a similar position to the one advertised and that they were not ready to add more on top of that, but that my name was at the top of the list. On February 7th, my old company, which was a technology startup, decided to change what it was going to work on and terminated my employment as part of a workforce reduction. My termination was not for cause. I received the remainder of the month in severance and had health insurance coverage to March. I pinged my friend again, and asked if there was anything I could do to help speed up the hiring process, as I was ready to start openly looking if not. That following Tuesday I was tech screened. Before the tech screen occurred they wanted to fly me to their headquarters for in person interviews based on initial phone interviewing. I flew up to interview in person following good performance in the tech screen. In person interviews went well, I was assertive about the salary I was seeking, openly. I was cagey about my present employment status. E.g.: "At <Old Company>, I <perform professional responsibility>." This is not volunteering that I'm presently unemployed, but is still talking about my professional experience and responsibilities. I do this all day, and at the end of the day I finally get called on it: "Are you presently employed at <Old Company>?" I acknowledge I'd been terminated, that it was not for cause, and that I can put them in contact with the CTO to confirm what I say. The total package is worse in some ways: instead of 30 days PTO and 6 holidays, they have 10 days PTO and 10 holidays. There's no 401k, or life insurance. The vacation policy really sticks in my craw and I hammer at it. I'm informed that they only use one vacation policy for all employees and that they'd prefer not to have to monkey with it to hire me. I counter offering to accept a pay cut from my prior rate in exchange for more vacation, along the lines of what I've gotten in the past. The counter-counter is that they will accept some amount of unpaid time off from me, which is roughly equivalent to a pay cut for more vacation. We come up with an approximate cap on how much I'll expect to do that in a given year. Salary wise the move is lateral, health insurance is pretty good, and they also offer dental and vision. Equity is, percentage wise, 50% more once fully diluted than my previous employer. We iron out this discussion in person, and the next day I am given a formal offer I accept. They check my references later. I still get to work remote, though they want more face time from me at their HQ. The position has more growth potential, and less drudge work. In terms of benefits it was a palpable downgrade, but still a significant improvement over being unemployed! All in all I was out of work for 20 calendar days, and technically am getting paid double today and tomorrow.  Overall I feel optimistic, but I embrace the limits of what I can know at this point.Given what I can know, I'm happy that: I was cognizant of useful information asymmetry and played it aggressively. I had clear important targets ( remote work, moral work, engineering consistent with my biases, pay rate, health insurance ) that were met. I had secondary targets that I evaluated in the context of both overall importance and my BATNA (being unemployed) I had sufficient savings to not be in a place of urgency. I had been doing research as soon as things seemed off so that I had a good idea of what other opportunities were out there and how this opportunity stacked up against other options on my primary targets. Maybe some folks will find some nuggets of usefulness in all of this. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2017 04:02
|
|
|
I'm currently interviewing with a company in my home town. I know that they've been looking all over for someone for this role, and are currently advertising with 3 different recruiters. I applied to them directly. Since I know recruiters take a massive slice of the starting salary (15-30%, right?), how would I go about leveraging the fact that they're not going to need to pay that if they hired me? Do I bring it up in the negotiations, or just assume I'm a more attractive hire because of that? Chances are they won't be able to match what I'm earning now (plus the extra parking expense I'm going to have at the new location), so it might all be moot, but would it be worth approaching it from that angle?
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2017 12:07
|
|
|
Dwight Eisenhower posted:Maybe some folks will find some nuggets of usefulness in all of this.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2017 14:25
|
|
|
Smithersnz posted:I'm currently interviewing with a company in my home town. I know that they've been looking all over for someone for this role, and are currently advertising with 3 different recruiters. I applied to them directly. It's not like this fact hasn't already been brought to their attention. And "I'm cheaper than candidates of similar quality" isn't something you want to personally stress as a selling point; it seems kind of desperate, like you don't have a strong enough case based on your own qualifications.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2017 16:02
|
|
|
epenthesis posted:It's not like this fact hasn't already been brought to their attention. And "I'm cheaper than candidates of similar quality" isn't something you want to personally stress as a selling point; it seems kind of desperate, like you don't have a strong enough case based on your own qualifications. I wouldn't bring it up yourself, but know that you can be bolder than a candidate coming from a recruiter in asking for higher pay. If they won't budge on salary, you can ask for a (higher?) signing bonus, as that is closest to what they'd end up paying a recruiter rather than a recurring thing like salary. It's definitely a good position to be in even if you don't say the words yourself. Jeffrey of YOSPOS fucked around with this message at 17:05 on Feb 28, 2017 |
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2017 16:58
|
|
|
Looking for input on my situation: This company has all but said that I'm the top pick candidate and they're in the process of going through my references. Truth be told, they are my last resort pick for a variety of reasons (not so good commute, 1099 and no benefits for first 90 days, salary is low)... All things considered, I'm fine with declining this offer. I haven't flat out accepted anything, but I've just been trying to stall by negotiating some specific details on the offer. Anyway, what would be wrong about using this offer as leverage? Such as whenever other recruiters ask where things are going with other interviews etc, then I respond that I have an offer that needs an answer by xyz date. How do I best take advantage of this? e: I also now have a call with one of the owners of the company tomorrow morning, so I'm guessing the right thing to do is pin down a specific date when I will make a final decision. Unfortunately, I still have pending interviews with 3 other companies who are far more interesting to me, except they still have to go through other candidates so they can't set firm dates on interviews moving forward 
air- fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Feb 28, 2017 |
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2017 19:19
|
|
|
There's nothing at all wrong with keeping it in your pocket. If you think you are very well positioned based on your initial interview you can bring up that you have an offer for a competing position and could whoever give you a timeline. Actually showing them the offer probably doesn't help you as you've described it as a weak offer. Unfortunately for a lot of companies they can't accelerate hiring decisions for a lot of jobs but doesn't hurt to try.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2017 22:26
|
|
|
air- posted:Looking for input on my situation: There's nothing wrong about using this offer as leverage. What you have to remember is that it is, ultimately, only worth as much as taking it vs some other offer. Seeing as it isn't better than your current employment, it is not very valuable to you. You can still use it as leverage though because of the information asymmetry between you and other prospective employers. This offer can help you demand timeliness, by virtue of needing to respond to it. It can validate your value as a candidate. And you can confidently demand material improvement over your current job, because they don't know the details of the offer. Of course, these asymmetries fall apart when you show them the offer. So don't do that!
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2017 13:59
|
|
|
from the company side: I have seen us accelerate the process if someone needs to make a decision soon and we're likely to make an offer. I don't get enough detail to know how it affects negotiations. I guess someone overplaying that position to apply pressure would get dinged for jerk behavior but I think thats happened like..once?
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2017 18:19
|
|
|
Macaroni Surprise posted:I'm trying to figure out how to best work this current situation. I'm not happy with my current employer who I have been with for almost four years. We have very few benefits and it is a hostile, poorly managed environment. Morale is low among the entire office. I recently got an advanced license that allows me to bill independently and supervise, and I put several applications in with other agencies about a week ago. However, I'm having difficulty finding really good positions until I get a second advanced license, which could take me some time to accomplish. It could take me anywhere from 4 months to a year to get that second license. I just want to update this as my position has changed quite dramatically. At a recent clinical meeting with clinical staff members and management, an argument broke out between both sides. I essentially took control of the meeting and resolved the argument by mapping out the issues, which led to a compromise between both sides. This seemed to impress the owner, who again stated that he wants me to be in a management role, but he has still not yet made an offer. Which actually is a good thing at this time. Although I had given up on previous applications, I got two different calls today from agencies I applied to, in order to set up interviews. I couldn't settle things because I worked all day, but I will be working things out with both of them tomorrow to hopefully arrange both interviews next friday, if possible. Right now my plan is that if my current employer approaches me with an offer, I'll tell them I need some time to consider it. At the interviews, I won't mention that I have interviews elsewhere or a possible promotion lined up, I'll just demonstrate my value and desire for a new position closer to the city with better benefits. I'm not quite sure what to say if I'm asked for a salary requirement. This line of work can go from 42-50k plus benefits. I'm currently making 38k (without benefits, which matters to me). I also have the second license I'm working on so I'm not as desperate to get out of my current position. I figure that puts me in a position to ask for 48k or so.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2017 05:08
|
|
|
Thanks again for this thread. I played a BATNA of "I resign, effective immediately" into an extremely soft exit from the company and support for my new venture.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2017 21:07
|
|
|
I'm just thinking about my upcoming interview on Friday. When I'm asked about why I want to leave my current employer, should I say that it's for 401k match and health insurance benefits, which is true? Or is that too close to disclosing my salary.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2017 01:32
|
|
|
Macaroni Surprise posted:I'm just thinking about my upcoming interview on Friday. When I'm asked about why I want to leave my current employer, should I say that it's for 401k match and health insurance benefits, which is true? Or is that too close to disclosing my salary. "I'm still evaluating if I will make a move. I want to see what other opportunities are available and how they compare to my present employment." Interviewers like to ask this question because it gets two categories of clueless people to show you who they are, namely: - Negative self-absorbed people will start to kvetch about how much their current job sucks. - Greedy myopic people will talk about how they can get compensated better at new job. Even though the very people interviewing you would almost certainly up and leave should better compensation come along, and it's entirely truthful and relevant to say that you're looking due to elements of their compensation package, it also shows them where to focus and reinforce their discussion in order to get you in the door. All that said, once you get to negotiating dimensions of employment it is relevant to talk about the elements of their compensation structure that entice you, especially when those elements have some degree of flex. At this point you want to show them how to make you happy but you shouldn't spend too much time focusing on any one particular thing.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 14:54
|
|
|
I was approached internally to join an R&D team that would be rewarding to work on, very prestigious, expose me to leadership routinely, etc. They're awaiting funding but I got a firm invite to the team both in person and in an email after I sent a thank you. It will require significantly more hours of work compared to my strictly 40 hours job right now. The move is lateral, I'll have the roughly the same title and pay grade. (I was just promoted to this pay grade 6 weeks ago) Any tips on the timing/strategy of broaching the subject of a raise? Do it once they know they've got funding but before I get a firm offer? After the firm offer? Etc.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2017 00:57
|
|
|
I've been approached to possibly do a 1099 contracting job full time. I'm not sure if I'm interested for many reasons, but setting those aside, is there a good rule of thumb about how much more I should expect to be paid to make up for the benefits/tax situation? I found some random calculator that suggested ~25%, but I'd be interested in hearing other opinions. Thanks!
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2017 01:35
|
|
|
Grumpwagon posted:I've been approached to possibly do a 1099 contracting job full time. I'm not sure if I'm interested for many reasons, but setting those aside, is there a good rule of thumb about how much more I should expect to be paid to make up for the benefits/tax situation? I found some random calculator that suggested ~25%, but I'd be interested in hearing other opinions. I typically bill 50% more than hourly/salary backed into hourly on 1099. I've rarely gotten much pushback on that in the tech field. And I'm talking for full time longer term stuff. Shorter term is higher. Remember, it's not just additional tax burden plus healthcare/benefits: you can't really look for work when you're working full time, there is an opportunity cost to being totally off the market for other 1099 work for a while, you don't have much control over when they might axe you, etc. Motronic fucked around with this message at 02:14 on Mar 8, 2017 |
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2017 02:11
|
|
|
Dwight Eisenhower posted:I never answer this question as phrased. When asked, I will say: I was reading up on this and listened to the podcast in the OP which talked about this subject. Where can I see some flexibility other than vacation time? I imagine insurance and 401k are set rates. There are some discounts with other companies and miscellaneous benefits like pet insurance and life insurance, but when it comes to negotiating compensation outside of pay, what can I even target other than pto?
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2017 08:19
|
|
|
Macaroni Surprise posted:I was reading up on this and listened to the podcast in the OP which talked about this subject. Where can I see some flexibility other than vacation time? I imagine insurance and 401k are set rates. There are some discounts with other companies and miscellaneous benefits like pet insurance and life insurance, but when it comes to negotiating compensation outside of pay, what can I even target other than pto? It certainly doesn't apply to every job, but some amount of 'working from home' time can be a very nice perk.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2017 12:51
|
|
|
Macaroni Surprise posted:I was reading up on this and listened to the podcast in the OP which talked about this subject. Where can I see some flexibility other than vacation time? I imagine insurance and 401k are set rates. There are some discounts with other companies and miscellaneous benefits like pet insurance and life insurance, but when it comes to negotiating compensation outside of pay, what can I even target other than pto? Good question! Things to probe as negotiable: - Salary - Hiring bonus - Annual bonus - PTO / year - Equity, if available - Health insurance coverage, for you (company pays your health insurance premium, between 0 and 100% of the premium) - Health insurance coverage, for dependents (company pays health insurance premium for your dependents, between 0 and 100% of premium) - Planned working from home time - Title (depends on your field and how much you think you can turn an important sounding title into better opportunities) - Life insurance coverage (how much premium the company pays) - Reimbursements (e.g. cell phone bill, regularly comped meals, conferences, continuing education, etc) This doesn't mean that every company will negotiate on these things, and it doesn't mean you should poke at all of them. But look at what, in this list, would motivate you to work some place and then pick a few to try and get a prospective employer to provide.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2017 14:48
|
|
|
I'll keep all those in mind. Here's my biggest concern when it comes to negotiating in my current position. I get the impression that it's best to push for these things after I would be certain they are offering a position. But in my experience with interviews in the line of work, I usually don't get offered the job in the actual interview, and it's more that I get a call later in the afternoon or the next day offering me the position. I still plan on pushing to ask for more, and I plan to kick things down the road until the very end of the interview after I've proved my competency and skills. But I guess my concern is that if I negotiate in the interview itself, I would likely be negotiating for more before I have an offer in hand. I don't know about the efficacy of asking for more after a offer is on the table if we're doing it on the phone, especially because I'm currently working full time and the position itself is an hour and a half away from where I currently live, so having a second in person discussion would be difficult. Your thoughts on this?
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2017 17:37
|
|
|
Your salary and benefits from a job are probably worth a three hour return trip.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2017 21:38
|
|
|
Thanks for the 1099 advice. For a second, unrelated, w2 job, I've been talking to a 3rd party contractor. This is pretty early in the process. I haven't talked to the company at all, but I have talked to this recruiter several times before, so he knows my skills and such. He has started pushing me pretty hard on salary requirements, but I fought him back enough that he gave me a salary range for the position. The high end was about 10% less than I am making now. How should I have answered that? I do like the position, but not enough to take a pay cut for it. He phrased the information as "are we in the ballpark with X,000-Y,000" and I said something along the lines of "we might be able to come to an agreement." I told him how important good insurance and a low cost retirement plan, etc etc and asked some questions in the direction of total comp. I have also told him before that I know I'm being paid on the high end for my current title (I'm being paid on a higher CoL city's salary scale). So, my question has 2 dimensions. First, was that an appropriate response for keeping my negotiating position for this position? 10% isn't THAT far off, but it's already the top of the range, and that's just to meet my current position's salary (although my current benefits are just ok, so I'd consider a sideways salary move for better benefits, maybe). I don't think it was too wrong for this current position, but that brings me to #2: I'm in a smaller midsized city, so I've spoken to this recruiter before, and I'm sure I will in the future. In the (increasingly likely) scenario that I don't take this job, did not immediately rejecting a range that started ~20% lower than my current salary give away some positioning for a future position? What should I have said instead? When the next position comes out, should I name a number (above my current salary) when he inevitably asks for my desired salary again to anchor the discussion higher?
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 00:30
|
|
|
Grumpwagon posted:Thanks for the 1099 advice. You said contradictory things, though only one of them to your recruiter: You wouldn't be willing to accept a 10% pay cut, and you might be able to come to an agreement with their salary range that tops out under your current pay. You need to get a spine. Some things are not acceptable. Their salary range is one of them. You should flat out say so. Not flat out saying so is wasting your time, the recruiter's time, and the employer's time. So, for your first question, it wasn't an appropriate response; they ask the question because they want to see if compensation structures can line up, you have determined that they can't, but you weren't forthcoming about that fact. You are wasting a bunch of peoples' time. Second question, you have a narrow window to dig out of the hole you're in, if it's still open. You can tell this recruiter that the salary range isn't aligned with your compensation and they might work with you again. If you let things fester until it's offer time and then drop this info that you knew all along, then you're going to be very unwelcome in a whole bunch of places. The other option is to change your definition of acceptable to something that lines up with this opportunity. I don't particularly see why that would make sense without some other motivating factors. But this whole scenario looks like you avoiding conflict to me. If you can't talk openly and earnestly about this stuff, you can't negotiate. If you keep wasting peoples' time to avoid conflict, you'll start burning bridges with people who you waste the time of. They probably won't give you a heads up as to why you're no longer welcome. Reading over this response, its marginally unkind. But you need to hear a little hard truth right now.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 15:37
|
|
|
Dwight Eisenhower posted:You said contradictory things, though only one of them to your recruiter: You wouldn't be willing to accept a 10% pay cut, and you might be able to come to an agreement with their salary range that tops out under your current pay. Hard truth appreciated. I definitely do avoid conflict sometimes, and there was definitely a bit of that here. I think that will be useful information going forward. The other thing holding me back from being more assertive is should I trust that what a 3rd party recruiter says is the top of the range is really the top of the range? The reason I phrased it that way was that I knew I was extremely qualified for the position, and I was hoping they'd be willing to go over the range for me, once we were further in the process.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 16:45
|
|
|
Recruiters are 100% loving worthless and will say anything and everything required to get the peg in the hole regardless of fit because that's how they get paid. Ignore anything they say.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 18:12
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 19:43 |
|
|
Grumpwagon posted:Hard truth appreciated. I definitely do avoid conflict sometimes, and there was definitely a bit of that here. I think that will be useful information going forward. I think the salary range is one of the few facts worth accepting at face value out of a recruiter, which doesn't mean that the employer wouldn't move for the right candidate, but it is probably an uphill battle. It's important to remember that the recruiter is paid by the employer once the req is filled. The employer is paying to get the req filled quickly, and the recruiter makes the most money by filling the most reqs in the shortest amount of time. At no point in any of this financial fuckery are your interests represented. You're not paying anyone in anything, except for in being cheap and quickly slotted into a role for questionable fit. I don't personally work with recruiters anymore; they're more likely than not to be clueless about the nature of your work, and will not represent anything honestly that might jeopardize your interests. They're real estate agents for corporate hiring departments.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 18:44
|
|