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I forgot to mention that entry-level hourly wage for turbine repair has dropped from $30/hr to $18/hr over roughly the past five year period. This in a field which requires commitment to a schedule of 100% travel site to site for much of the year, with a similar environmental hazard risk to underwater welders. Concerns of retaining talent in the industry long term are definitely growing, especially in North America where the number of people certified to work on these is numbered in the hundreds.
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Feb 23, 2017 04:53
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Rime posted:Wind is having some growing pains right now. I'm in the process of acquiring certifications for turbine repair, and what I've uncovered while speaking to current workers is problematic. Most concerningly (at least career wise for me) the major wind producers are increasingly unwilling to invest in preventative maintenance on a regular schedule. This cheapening of production can of course manifest itself catastrophically, as potentially seen in recent tower collapses in eastern canada (the causes of which are still under investigation), or more insidiously over time. But those are normal wear and tear and not related to a manufacturing defect of the blade. This just brings the turbines in line with other forms of power generation.
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Feb 23, 2017 04:55
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Potato Salad posted:I used to give a gently caress about biodiversity in our rivers and streams. Check out "Salmon on the Backs of Buffalo" and then "DamNation", the rest is up to you to perform soe diligence. I'm loving tired of educating the unwilling and am willing to leave you behind, sorry, And I don't mean that insultingly or as a"fygm" thing, I'm just not gonna hang around and try to convert people who're entirely willing to use false propaganda to attack actual physics.. I just hope to moev to China or EUrope where energy engineers seem to be welcomed and not mocked. I really am sorry on multiple levels but "IDGAF - help me GAF" - no, gently caress you bro. Go back to your job and stop wasting the time of people who want to make a difference.. It's kind of like a junkie - you want to be convinced that NA is the thing that can help you - naw bro, that's on YOU not everybody else that you stuck that needle in your arm and fight those who care about removing it.
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Feb 23, 2017 07:45
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The point of posting isn't to convert your opponent, trying to do so will only cause them to entrench further. This may be why you seem so exasperated. Instead, think of the people on the sidelines who maybe feel like they don't know enough to have an informed opinion, or who know a little from one side but haven't even heard yours. Your posting could still influence or even convince them, and then they may go on to influence or convert others. What you shouldn't ever do is explain at length why you're not even going to engage, that's declaring victory without even throwing a punch and even the people who already agreed with you aren't going to like it. I know that you don't consider yourself to be in an argument and that you don't feel like you're declaring victory, but that's how it comes across regardless.
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Feb 23, 2017 08:07
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Wow, okay I just did perform a little due-diligence and your posts are nothing if not informative of how much attention I ought to provide to noted forums star duck-avatar-guy, who really likes nothing more than repetitive one-liners ITT. I maybe the way you rarely start any post without a predictable 3-4 word intro (which you use over and over through almost all posts) makes me really suspect if you're serial or no coyo7e fucked around with this message at 09:42 on Feb 23, 2017 |
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Feb 23, 2017 09:39
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coyo7e posted:Wow, okay I just did perform a little due-diligence and your posts are nothing if not informative of how much attention I ought to provide to noted forums star duck-avatar-guy, who really likes nothing more than repetitive one-liners ITT.  also dams bad for everything that migrates and for everything kilometres downstream that likes oxygen and normal temperatures and even worse for everything downstream to the sea that likes seasonal water level change
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Feb 23, 2017 09:50
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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blowfish posted:
on the other hand they are quite good for downstream things that dislike seasonal water level changes, e.g. human settlements
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Feb 23, 2017 09:53
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coyo7e posted:[...] duck-avatar-guy, who really likes nothing more than repetitive one-liners ITT. Huh? You don't have to agree with everything QuarkJets says, but this is definitely not justified. Besides, this: QuarkJets posted:The point of posting isn't to convert your opponent [...] Instead, think of the people on the sidelines who maybe feel like they don't know enough to have an informed opinion, or who know a little from one side but haven't even heard yours. Your posting could still influence or even convince them, and then they may go on to influence or convert others. is actually true – not just for threads in stupid forums, but for any kind of public discussion.
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Feb 23, 2017 10:27
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Dams are critically important for securing and managing water resources for humans as well as being able to moderate renewable energy (wind and solar) as well as providing its own renewable energy. That and hydro power has the fastest response time of any power generating capacity that we have. Yes they gently caress up local ecosystems by converting them into lakes, lakes have their own ecosystems too. But all ecosystems are getting hosed over anyways and considering that dams are one of our most powerful assets in reducing our carbon emissions, the decision seems clear to me, anyways.
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Feb 23, 2017 10:39
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CombatInformatiker posted:is actually true – not just for threads in stupid forums, but for any kind of public discussion. coyote's style of posting is the mode of operation for many posters in the sociology threads in this forum, where you proclaim yourself an expert in a subject, get outraged when others don't immediately respect your genius and immediately defer to your opinions on a subject, and then castigate others for their ignorance and hide behind technicalism to avoid having to explain or provide any evidence for any of your opinions.
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Feb 23, 2017 14:18
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Rime posted:I forgot to mention that entry-level hourly wage for turbine repair has dropped from $30/hr to $18/hr over roughly the past five year period. This in a field which requires commitment to a schedule of 100% travel site to site for much of the year, with a similar environmental hazard risk to underwater welders. Concerns of retaining talent in the industry long term are definitely growing, especially in North America where the number of people certified to work on these is numbered in the hundreds. That really sucks. But, for now think of it as a self-resolving problem, because it sounds like the not-so-distant future should provide you with failure related work.
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Feb 23, 2017 15:17
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BattleMoose posted:Dams are critically important for securing and managing water resources for humans as well as being able to moderate renewable energy (wind and solar) as well as providing its own renewable energy. That and hydro power has the fastest response time of any power generating capacity that we have. Yes they gently caress up local ecosystems by converting them into lakes, lakes have their own ecosystems too. But all ecosystems are getting hosed over anyways and considering that dams are one of our most powerful assets in reducing our carbon emissions, the decision seems clear to me, anyways. But again, we've already built nearly all the dams we could that would be at all useful, at least across the developed world. And even many that turned out to be a waste of time and effort on top of that.
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Feb 23, 2017 16:05
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fishmech posted:But again, we've already built nearly all the dams we could that would be at all useful, at least across the developed world. And even many that turned out to be a waste of time and effort on top of that. There are several large capacity dam projects which remain on paper in British Columbia. They'll likely never be built now as they require significant disruption to pristine rainforest environments, but who knows where late stage capitalism will lead us someday. The US Army Corps of Engineers also drew up a plan back in the 50s for the damming of the entire Rocky Mountain Trench. Our own, much shittier, 3 gorges. Thankfully that one is definitely not happening.
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Feb 23, 2017 16:21
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They're also one of those things that require maintenance otherwise pretty bad stuff happens and as it is now the entire world has problems just repairing roads
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Feb 23, 2017 16:33
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While not strictly speaking energy generation it's at least tangentially related - battery production is popping these years: Why didn't you invest in eastern Poland? If nothing else it'll reduce prices but I'm not really sure how the market can absorb it that rapidly. Either EVs or residential batteries really take off or some investors are going to get burned.
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Feb 23, 2017 18:06
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I've read almost every page of every energy related thread in D&D since the one where the guy came up with spooning your partner at night as an unit of measurement. The subject matter is not my area of study so I've never really had anything to directly contribute to the threads, but I really appreciate all of the regulars explaining their work for the laymen and for also providing a poo poo ton of primary sources that I've checked out over the years, especially the Physics for Future Presidents course from, if I remember right, Berkley.
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Feb 23, 2017 19:29
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I haven't read it yet, but the Economist did a thing on renewables. http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21717365-wind-and-solar-energy-are-disrupting-century-old-model-providing-electricity-what-will
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Feb 23, 2017 21:01
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coyo7e posted:Wow, okay I just did perform a little due-diligence and your posts are nothing if not informative of how much attention I ought to provide to noted forums star duck-avatar-guy, who really likes nothing more than repetitive one-liners ITT. I made a legitimate attempt to help you and you react like this? Are you actually an angry 13 year-old in real life or is posting like one just your gimmick? But yes, it's true, my posts are generally awesome, thank you for noticing 
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Feb 23, 2017 21:16
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LemonDrizzle posted:on the other hand they are quite good for downstream things that dislike seasonal water level changes, e.g. human settlements houses have no business being at the lowest point of a floodplain
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Feb 23, 2017 22:24
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blowfish posted:houses have no business being at the lowest point of a floodplain I was going to put a lock on my door, but then I realized houses have no business being in an area with the potential for crime.
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Feb 23, 2017 22:30
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blowfish posted:houses have no business being at the lowest point of a floodplain Maybe but flooding can affect huge areas, not just the lowest points. In 1954 the Yangtze flooded and forced 19 million people out of their homes. Saying they should just not live there is not constructive. People settle and build their cities along rivers for a number of reasons and the land is often some of the best for agriculture. With or without hydro-electricity governments will want to protect those people and assets. As an aside, there's 80,000 dams in the US and only 3 percent generate electricity. Dams are useful for a whole lot of reasons beyond electricity generation but we might as well stick some turbines in them if we're going to build them.
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Feb 23, 2017 22:48
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Personally I think we should reprocess nuclear fuel and end the long-term storage problem for the long term.
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Feb 23, 2017 22:51
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Arglebargle III posted:Personally I think we should reprocess nuclear fuel and end the long-term storage problem for the long term. Well yeah that's the same strategy but it's politically dead on both sides of the aisle
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Feb 23, 2017 23:33
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Proud Christian Mom posted:Well yeah that's the same strategy but it's politically dead on both sides of the aisle Also more critically (heh), the nuclear power industry has convinced power companies they are too expensive and money runs the world
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Feb 23, 2017 23:34
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Bates posted:In 1954 the Yangtze flooded and forced 19 million people out of their homes. That is one of the more important reasons to dam rivers.
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Feb 24, 2017 00:43
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Trabisnikof posted:Also more critically (heh), the nuclear power industry has convinced power companies they are too expensive and money runs the world All the more reason to nationalize power generation and distribution
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Feb 24, 2017 01:19
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freezepops posted:Also, I think its important to point out that the pelican power plant is NOT a peaking power unit. Its a combined cycle plant, which means its purpose is to supply large amounts of electricity at a cheap price. Its a baseload generator which no longer has a baseload to generate electricity for due to the large integration of wind energy reducing the amount of baseload. There's absolutely nothing to stop the owner of a CCGT running it for a short amount of time (4-6 hours) per day, if the price of power and the price of gas dictate that that's the most profitable time to run. The limiting factor is temperature differentials on the steam turbine - you want it to expand as it warms up within its design tolerances, so you don't get the blades expanding faster than the casing and rubbing on it. For a modern (i.e. post-2000) CCGT, it's entirely reasonable to expect it to be able to generate flexibly without any drama on startup and synchronisation to the grid. The biggest problem you're likely to encounter from doing this is having your maintenance manager start whining about the ratio of running hours to starts and the bill that you're going to get from GE/Siemens/Alstom the next time the GT is due to be maintained.
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Feb 24, 2017 02:07
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QuarkJets posted:All the more reason to nationalize power generation and distribution The US can't afford it.
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Feb 24, 2017 02:22
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Number Ten Cocks posted:The US can't afford it. You can, you just choose not too. Buffet rule the rich and the corporations, dont spend as much money on the military, inheritance tax for good measure and you will be well on your way.
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Feb 24, 2017 02:30
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Number Ten Cocks posted:The US can't afford it. We really can though
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Feb 24, 2017 02:37
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RDevz posted:There's absolutely nothing to stop the owner of a CCGT running it for a short amount of time (4-6 hours) per day, if the price of power and the price of gas dictate that that's the most profitable time to run. Pelican Point Power Station: This is a company that likes to make money. They have stated its not profitable to run this additional turbine. I believe them when this for profit group says doing a thing isn't profitable and then they don't do the thing. If there was a way for them to make money doing the thing you suggest, they would be doing it.
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Feb 24, 2017 02:53
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Number Ten Cocks posted:The US can't afford it. We certainly seem to be willing to fund building and operating a fleet of something like 80 nuclear subs that cost between 1 and 4 billion dollars a pop. e: Oh, and a dozen nuclear carriers that are like $13 billion each. AreWeDrunkYet fucked around with this message at 04:28 on Feb 24, 2017 |
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Feb 24, 2017 04:24
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BattleMoose posted:Pelican Point Power Station: And thats fine. Its just that that was not the reason given why the generator wasnt fired up, and why SA had blackouts.
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Feb 24, 2017 04:24
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Number Ten Cocks posted:The US can't afford it. It's kind of a weird idea that a state cannot afford to own the things within its jurisdiction. If it governs expensive things it should be a wealthy state.
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Feb 24, 2017 04:27
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NPR Journalizard posted:And thats fine. Its just that that was not the reason given why the generator wasnt fired up, and why SA had blackouts. It literally is. They stated it in a press release. Which I linked in a previous post and you even quoted that link. Here again. http://engie.com.au/media/UploadedDocuments/News/Pelican%20Point%20Second%20Unit%20-%20Media%20statement.pdf quote:There is no commercial rationale to operate the second Pelican Point unit in the current I am not exactly sure who or how EGNIE's costs were covered but it sure sounds like the government had to pay EGNIE to operate that plant. Because they didn't want to. Because it wasn't profitable to do so.
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Feb 24, 2017 04:49
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If the plant's such a loss to run, why hasn't the company sold it off or sold off the equipment inside?
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Feb 24, 2017 04:56
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BattleMoose posted:It literally is. They stated it in a press release. Which I linked in a previous post and you even quoted that link. Here again. Whoops, you are right, I remembered bad. Sorry.
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Feb 24, 2017 05:05
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fishmech posted:If the plant's such a loss to run, why hasn't the company sold it off or sold off the equipment inside? Its only 1 of 2 turbines that they choose not to run. I would surmise that the plant is profitable. They ran 2 turbines from 1999 to 2013 when they effectively decided to mothball the second turbine, apparently due to oversupply in the energy market in South Australia.
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Feb 24, 2017 05:05
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BattleMoose posted:Its only 1 of 2 turbines that they choose not to run. I would surmise that the plant is profitable. So why not sell the unprofitable turbine to someone else, or transfer the turbine to another plant they own where it would be economical? Mothballing would tend to imply it's already not in a state where it can quickly be brought online as is.
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Feb 24, 2017 05:09
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fishmech posted:So why not sell the unprofitable turbine to someone else, or transfer the turbine to another plant they own where it would be economical? Mothballing would tend to imply it's already not in a state where it can quickly be brought online as is. I can only guess at their decision making processes. And perhaps mothballing isn't the correct term to use. And honestly I don't know exactly what it entails for them to bring that turbine on-line, additional personnel? Securing Gas supplies? But consider these are "massive" pieces of equipment. They are very difficult and costly to move and finding a buyer at the right price would be difficult also. Perhaps they think it would be most worthwhile to keep the unit there and market conditions could change so that it could be profitable in the future. And maybe that has happened already. South Australia hopefully will now realise that they do need that turbine to be available to them. Perhaps now they can reach an agreement in which it will be profitable for ENGIE to keep that plant on standby and participate in the market bidding processes. Or maybe they will need a few more blackouts for that to happen. Or they might secure electricity supply in some other way. I do think you are grossly underestimating how difficult it is to move such infrastructure or even sell it.
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Feb 24, 2017 05:19
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