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Stoke is a seat basically tailor-made for UKIP and they can't even win it in a by-election. What is even the point of them any more?
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Feb 24, 2017 08:12
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is UKIP being definitively dead good or not?
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Feb 24, 2017 08:18
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https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/835025755302166530
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Feb 24, 2017 08:18
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This tweet is correct. Aside from nuclear power, I still support that. Edit: Thinking of the wrong By-Election there. Kokoro Wish fucked around with this message at 08:22 on Feb 24, 2017 |
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Feb 24, 2017 08:20
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Is corbyn sacked yet
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Feb 24, 2017 08:20
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Corbyn isn't going anywhere. He's taking Labor down, enabled by people like this Kokoro Wish posted:This tweet is correct. Aside from nuclear power, I still support that.
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Feb 24, 2017 08:23
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thats some poor spelling pissflaps
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Feb 24, 2017 08:28
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Labor sounds like a city in Africa
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Feb 24, 2017 08:30
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TACD posted:Basic income (paid for by taxing the rich). Land value tax and/or empty property tax. There's no shortage of simple and good policies around which to base a strategy of constantly reminding people that it is Rich Bastards who are responsible for things being shite. Labour have a really easy way to appeal to the masses and it goes back to what Labour was originally set up for i.e. to support the workers. Make it so that people who are earning the regional median wage can afford to buy a house where they live, and that they can have a good quality of life. At present this is significantly broken in large parts of the country, hence why Stoke etc feel left behind as they are the have nots under the current system and have no way of getting out of this rut. Institute McDonnells idea of regional owned housing corporations to build new houses on mass, but allow people to have the right to buy them after 10 years. Its the only effective way of solving the housing crisis without also tanking house prices, and also enabling those who feel left behind by the current system to feel part of the country again. Also put a hold on all but essential immigration in a region until this metric is met.
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Feb 24, 2017 08:38
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ukle posted:Also put a hold on all but essential immigration in a region until this metric is met. Instead, they need to stridently advocate a counter-narrative of "no it isn't, it's the loving Tories! Look at them! They're loving you right now! It's always been them!" And for that to happen they need to stop implicitly accepting immigration as a problem and focus hard on what miserable cunts the Tories are.
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Feb 24, 2017 09:07
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ukle posted:Also put a hold on all but essential immigration in a region until this metric is met. Can't do that for very important reasons. Firstly, this cedes the argument to the Tories and UKIP that immigrants have been the cause of the problems, not inadequate funding. Secondly, as a result of the first, the second you try and resume migration in the area, it will be a fight for every inch of the argument, since you already ceded the argument to the other side.
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Feb 24, 2017 09:07
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https://mobile.twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/834998601898201089
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Feb 24, 2017 09:21
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the problem is if corbyn is replaced by a right winger then what is even the point of labour any more?
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Feb 24, 2017 09:24
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Sorry Flaps but New Labour is to blame for literally all of Labours problems
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Feb 24, 2017 09:26
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Countdown to Pissflaps saying polls don't count as they run contrary to his opinion.....
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Feb 24, 2017 09:26
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Well this is a depressing morning. Corbyn's not an amazing politician but what the gently caress do we do about all the people who look out their window at the tire-fire the tories are making of the country and go "Man, what a load of good ideas. What a great achievement. Definitely more of this" when they're already poor and inequality keeps skyrocketing?
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Feb 24, 2017 09:29
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Don't Lol me posted:Countdown to Pissflaps saying polls don't count as they run contrary to his opinion..... ....how is that contrary to my opinion? Most people won't consider voting Labour - even Blair didn't get over 50% vote share. The point is that Corbyn is turning away people who would, as that poll demonstrates.
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Feb 24, 2017 09:30
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maybe english people are cunts and like right wing politics?
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Feb 24, 2017 09:31
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JFairfax posted:the problem is if corbyn is replaced by a right winger then what is even the point of labour any more? You consider Tony Blair to be a 'right winger' and he achieved more for poor people than Corbyn ever will.
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Feb 24, 2017 09:32
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Don't Lol me posted:Countdown to Pissflaps saying polls don't count as they run contrary to his opinion..... In fairness it says more people think Corbyn's the wrong man than is, and that it would attract marginally more voters if he was gone. The issue is that a 10% change isn't exactly a stirring turn-around. The big problem with Corbyn going is still who you replace him with, and that's a deeper problem of lack of vision for the party. Labour got stuck on "I agree with nick" and adopted a really centralist strategy, and that lead to them agreeing they caused the financial crisis and that they needed to support loving poor people, and then agree that migrants were all really bad at needed to be hit with sticks. Labour spent, what, almost a decade being the "me-too" party, and I think that's probably where this huge issue with them's probably come from. Conversely the tories have really succeeded at being the party for stuff. Really odious stuff, but you can definitely say that the tories want to defund a few hospitals and build a trench line inside the chunnel to stop the dastardly continentals from getting in. Potentially you might argue that without Corbyn Labour would suddenly have an identity but I feel like it'd probably still be "What the tories are doing plus-minus a bit" because every time someone from the party comes up with a hot take on where Corbyn's tripping up it's that his policy isn't like the tory view on stuff. spectralent fucked around with this message at 09:40 on Feb 24, 2017 |
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Feb 24, 2017 09:37
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Pissflaps posted:You consider Tony Blair to be a 'right winger' and he achieved more for poor people than Corbyn ever will. Well he certainly helped 300,000 poor people leave poverty in Iraq.
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Feb 24, 2017 09:37
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JFairfax posted:maybe english people are cunts and like right wing politics? This evidently hasn't always been the case, though. I was going to say what's changed but probably the audacity and extremism of the press. Also maybe getting older really does make you more racist somehow? I assumed that it was just that old people grew up living in less enlightened times and just took their attitudes with them but maybe you actively get worse being old given those people must've been voting Labour at some stage.
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Feb 24, 2017 09:43
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Pissflaps posted:You consider Tony Blair to be a 'right winger' and he achieved more for poor people than Corbyn ever will. PFI was awful and he was on the ground floor of a religious war which has dragged the UK's politics massively to the right.
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Feb 24, 2017 09:44
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Feb 24, 2017 09:46
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goddamnedtwisto posted:Well he certainly helped 300,000 poor people leave poverty in Iraq. More like 500k-1m
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Feb 24, 2017 09:46
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I thought at the time that getting into a war would drag England to the right, and it has proved to be so. We've demonised islam for 15 years and now people are shocked that the country is a cesspool of racists.
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Feb 24, 2017 09:48
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JFairfax posted:PFI was awful and he was on the ground floor of a religious war which has dragged the UK's politics massively to the right. Minimum wage, tax credits, reduced poverty, massive investment in schools and hospitals. Jeremy made some jam.
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Feb 24, 2017 09:52
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Pissflaps posted:Minimum wage, tax credits, reduced poverty, massive investment in schools and hospitals. All those things were for nothing because of his desire for war.
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Feb 24, 2017 09:55
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spectralent posted:In fairness it says more people think Corbyn's the wrong man than is, and that it would attract marginally more voters if he was gone. The issue is that a 10% change isn't exactly a stirring turn-around. The big problem with Corbyn going is still who you replace him with, and that's a deeper problem of lack of vision for the party. Labour got stuck on "I agree with nick" and adopted a really centralist strategy, and that lead to them agreeing they caused the financial crisis and that they needed to support loving poor people, and then agree that migrants were all really bad at needed to be hit with sticks. Labour spent, what, almost a decade being the "me-too" party, and I think that's probably where this huge issue with them's probably come from. Conversely the tories have really succeeded at being the party for stuff. Really odious stuff, but you can definitely say that the tories want to defund a few hospitals and build a trench line inside the chunnel to stop the dastardly continentals from getting in. I just hope when Corbyn does go, they don't think that going back to the middle is the best way to electoral success again and learn nothing from this. Tapping into the goodwill of what Corbyn tried to stand for is something they shouldn't neglect, and is way closer to their identity than being a watered down LD.
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Feb 24, 2017 09:56
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Pissflaps posted:Minimum wage, tax credits, reduced poverty, massive investment in schools and hospitals. That's not being very fair. Jezza's accomplished all kinds of worthwhile things in his long career as an activist and labour MP. Just very few of them -- or perhaps even none -- while leader of the labour party.
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Feb 24, 2017 09:57
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the death of a million people is acceptable because he introduced minimum wage
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Feb 24, 2017 09:57
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Regarde Aduck posted:All those things were for nothing because of his desire for war. Horseshit. Tell that to people whose wages have risen with minimum wage, receive tax credits or use those schools and hospitals.
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Feb 24, 2017 09:57
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Pissflaps posted:Minimum wage, tax credits, reduced poverty, massive investment in schools and hospitals. Earlier this month the Institute for Public Policy Research (IPPR) published an “audit of social justice” examining the impact of the Labour government’s policies on poverty and social inequality in Britain. Its findings are an indictment of the big business agenda imposed by Prime Minister Tony Blair’s government during its seven years in office. Poverty and inequality have widened during that period, sharply polarising Britain between a tiny minority who control much of the country’s wealth and monopolise political life, and the vast majority of the population who have little control or influence over either. The findings are also an indictment of the IPPR. The think tank has worked hand in glove with Labour, helping fashion much of government policy—from welfare reform through to privatising key public services. In 1994 the IPPR established a “Commission on Social Justice” that sought to redefine measures of social inequality, which Labour utilised to justify the abandonment of its traditional social reformist programme. Ten years after the commission first reported, the IPPR admit that all aspects of social and political life in the UK under Labour have polarised “according to class and wealth.” According to the IPPR, under Blair the richest 1 percent of the population has more than doubled its share of national income from approximately 6 percent in 1980 to a massive 13 percent in 1999. Wealth distribution is even more unequal than income distribution, and has continued to become more unequal in the last decade. Between 1990 and 2000 the percentage of wealth held by the wealthiest 10 percent of the population increased from 47 percent to 54 percent. Inequality in disposable income (after taxes and benefits are accounted for) has also increased. The report states that based on the Gini coefficient (whereby 0 means perfect equality and 100 means perfect inequality), inequality has increased from 33 in 1996/97 to 36 in 2001/02. Poverty widens The IPPR claims that the government has had some success in tackling child poverty rates. In 1998 these were the highest in the European Union, but by 2001 the UK had apparently fallen to 11th out of the 15 EU countries on child poverty. The government’s policy on child poverty has largely been aimed at forcing single mothers into work. Even so, claims of improvement appear at odds with the report’s findings that in 2001, 23 percent of children in the UK were living in households earning less than 60 percent of median income, almost double the rate in Germany and five times that in Denmark. It seems that any improvement is at least partially accounted for by the fact that the government revised its definition of poverty from one based on total household income after housing costs, to total household income before housing costs. What is clear is that under Labour poverty now encompasses broader sections of the population. This is despite the fact that the IPPR report that the “economy has experienced steady growth since 1993, employment rates have increased and registered unemployment continues to fall.” Twenty-one percent of pensioners live in poverty in the UK (the same level as in 1994 under the Conservative government). The number of working poor has also increased, with working-age adults without children constituting an “unfavoured group.” The latter now comprise 31 percent of people in poverty, up from 25 percent in 1994. Sixty-nine percent of Pakistani and Bangladeshi people were living in poverty in 2002/03, compared to 22 percent of Indians and 20 percent of whites (DWP 2004). They were three times more likely than whites to live in unfit housing and report bad health. Black pupils were three times more likely to be excluded than white pupils. The IPPR states “poverty is dynamic, with a large body of people constantly moving in and out.” Half the population were in poverty for at least one year between 1991 and 2001, and one-quarter of all individuals in the UK experienced “recurrent or short-term persistent poverty.” Some 16 percent of households spent at least five years in poverty between 1991 and 1999. But persistent poverty—defined as those living at least three years out of the last four in poverty—”remained stubbornly high in Britain compared to the rest of Europe.” https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2004/08/pove-a19.html
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Feb 24, 2017 09:57
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Jeremy didn't commit any war crimes though.
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Feb 24, 2017 09:58
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Pissflaps doesn't like brown people so the war crimes are okay with him.
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Feb 24, 2017 09:58
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i wonder what things would be like had the iraq war not happened
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Feb 24, 2017 10:00
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JFairfax posted:Pissflaps doesn't like brown people so the war crimes are okay with him. You don't like working class people so Tory governments are ok with you.
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Feb 24, 2017 10:00
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Don't Lol me posted:I just hope when Corbyn does go, they don't think that going back to the middle is the best way to electoral success again and learn nothing from this. Tapping into the goodwill of what Corbyn tried to stand for is something they shouldn't neglect, and is way closer to their identity than being a watered down LD. Yeah, but as I said, I suspect if he did go, that's exactly what'd happen, because every time we've seen someone come out directly to oppose Corbyn, he's been wrong by not agreeing with the tories in principle and quibbling on specifics; he was wrong for losing labour's economic credibility (actually opposing austerity), he's out of touch with the working class for not matching their views on globalisation (doesn't hate immigrants enough), he's thinks unions are good when obviously they're bad, etc etc. There's probably more examples but I'm lazy.
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Feb 24, 2017 10:00
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Pissflaps posted:You don't like working class people so Tory governments are ok with you. I do like working class people and I dislike Tory governments. I actually left the UK when the Tories got in in 2010. I refuse to live in the UK under the Tories. it is telling you did not deny my accusation.
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Feb 24, 2017 10:02
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Jose posted:i wonder what things would be like had the iraq war not happened a lot loving better I would imagine. we wouldn't have ISIS for one, no refugee crisis, probably no Trump either.
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Feb 24, 2017 10:02
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