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Which Thread Title shall we name this new thread? This poll is closed. |
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| Independence Day 2: Resturgeonce |
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44 | 21.36% |
| ScotPol - Unclustering this gently caress |
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19 | 9.22% |
| Trainspotting 2: Independence is my heroin |
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9 | 4.37% |
| Indyref II: Boris hosed a Dead Country |
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14 | 6.80% |
| ScotPol: Wings over Bullshit |
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8 | 3.88% |
| Independence 2: Cameron Lied, UK Died |
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24 | 11.65% |
| Scotpol IV: I Vow To Flee My Country |
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14 | 6.80% |
| ScotPol - A twice in a generation thread |
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17 | 8.25% |
| ScotPol - Where Everything's hosed Up and the Referendums Don't Matter |
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15 | 7.28% |
| ScotPol Thread: Dependence Referendum Incoming |
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2 | 0.97% |
| Indyref II: The Scottish Insturgeoncy |
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10 | 4.85% |
| ScotPol Thread: Act of European Union |
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5 | 2.43% |
| ScotPol - Like Game of Thrones only we wish we would all die |
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25 | 12.14% |
| Total: | 206 votes | ||
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But that would see Scotland voting to leave a uk already out of the eu and losing the current 'vote to escape Brexit' selling point of the current push. Waiting for No voters to die and relying on Yes voters to replace them is a risky strategy: people change their minds. It's the same reason why we we still have Tory governments now despite all the old people who voted for them in the past having died off. Finally the value of North Sea oil to the uk or an independent Scotland is never going to be what it was even if the price of oil does recover.
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Feb 20, 2017 08:52
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Which one of you is the guy in the bottom right of this photo?
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Feb 20, 2017 11:58
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all of us in our hearts.
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Feb 20, 2017 12:00
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Baron Corbyn posted:UKIP actually managed to get the EU referendum question changed for exactly this reason, I'm surprised the government let the Scottish referendum question stand. Though the Cameron administration can probably be defined by its arrogance so I guess I shouldn't be.
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Feb 20, 2017 12:01
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Pissflaps posted:Which one of you is the guy in the bottom right of this photo? I admire that no matter how unfunny this joke is, you insist on persevering. Inspirational
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Feb 20, 2017 13:10
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forkboy84 posted:I admire that no matter how unfunny this joke is, you insist on persevering. Inspirational Did you paint the mask yourself?
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Feb 20, 2017 13:11
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Pictures of Wallace cosplayers are sort of funny. It's like the Scottish equivalent of EDL thumb people. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 14:32 on Feb 20, 2017 |
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Feb 20, 2017 13:59
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OwlFancier posted:Pictures of Wallace cosplayers are sort of funny. Especially the ones who just dress up as Mel Gibson. They are my favourites.
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Feb 20, 2017 14:20
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I reckon they are trying to decide between an early referendum as part of the Brexit process so we won't have to leave the EU, or a late one after Brexit with a better chance of winning.
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Feb 20, 2017 14:41
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Scotland will have to 'join' the EU one way or another. If Brexit is quick (i.e. follows the two year timetable) I don't see how there's enough time for Scotland to negotiate its entry to the EU without spending some time outside of both the UK and the EU.
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Feb 20, 2017 14:46
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marktheando posted:I reckon they are trying to decide between an early referendum as part of the Brexit process so we won't have to leave the EU
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Feb 20, 2017 14:55
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Pissflaps posted:Scotland will have to 'join' the EU one way or another. If Brexit is quick (i.e. follows the two year timetable) I don't see how there's enough time for Scotland to negotiate its entry to the EU without spending some time outside of both the UK and the EU. jBrereton posted:hahahahahahaha There would need to be some interim arrangement, but EU people have said it would be possible. The question is though, is if it's winnable before the worst of the Brexit chaos happens.
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Feb 20, 2017 15:05
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Pissflaps posted:Scotland will have to 'join' the EU one way or another. If Brexit is quick (i.e. follows the two year timetable) I don't see how there's enough time for Scotland to negotiate its entry to the EU without spending some time outside of both the UK and the EU. Neat little article from yesterday on the practicalities of what you're talking about. The cynic in me says it paints too rosy a picture but I don't see any major problems with their analysis. EDIT: Changed link to a more long-form article without the Herald's lovely ads. Leggsy fucked around with this message at 00:34 on Feb 21, 2017 |
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Feb 21, 2017 00:31
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forkboy84 posted:Especially the ones who just dress up as Mel Gibson. They are my favourites. Maybe they were just inspired by the statue at the monument. loving banner day to be in Stirling when they changed that over.
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Feb 21, 2017 02:20
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In Aberdeen, the SNP opposition have berated the Labour-led council for not doing enough to protect local businesses from the upcoming business rates hike. Would that be the business rates hike proposed and implemented by the SNP? Why, yes, it would. Just a little something to consider in the run up to the council elections in May.
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Feb 23, 2017 11:15
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Jedit posted:In Aberdeen, the SNP opposition have berated the Labour-led council for not doing enough to protect local businesses from the upcoming business rates hike. Would that be the business rates hike proposed and implemented by the SNP? Why, yes, it would. How are you going to be voting?
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Feb 23, 2017 12:21
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Coohoolin posted:How are you going to be voting? Not for the party complaining that not enough is being done to protect people from their own policies.
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Feb 23, 2017 12:31
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Jedit posted:Not for the party complaining that not enough is being done to protect people from their own policies. Do you have a source for that btw? I don't know if it's fair to keep Willie Young in a semblance of utility any longer, it seems cruel.
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Feb 23, 2017 13:17
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Coohoolin posted:Do you have a source for that btw? https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/fp/news/local/snp-slams-labour-led-administration-over-lack-of-rates-hike-relief-measures/ SNP councillors criticising Labour led-council for not mitigating the effects of SNP government policy by using council money: quote:
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Feb 23, 2017 14:24
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Thanks Niric, I'm on my phone so don't have access to the links. It's a change up from the SNP openly opposing mitigation of the effects of Westminster policies outside of councils they control, I suppose, but they really are heinous shits. Jedit fucked around with this message at 15:11 on Feb 23, 2017 |
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Feb 23, 2017 15:09
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The rate "hike" is part of an independent revaluation. I find it hard to believe that, had a transitional scheme originally been agreed by the Scottish Govt (and, if you look at the original consultation, a majority of local authorities were opposed), that would have been quietly accepted by the opposition without criticism. In the context of highly restricted public spending, you're telling me Labour/Lib Dems wouldn't have found some unsavoury company to have benefited from a transitional relief scheme, and complained that millions was being spent to subsidise them? We currently have MSPs arguing that the SNP specifically directed the revaluation to help their own HQ and Sports Direct! I think a limited national relief scheme is necessary due to reduced turnover in some sectors, especially in the North East. The alternative, which is presumably what Labour want, would be to increase income taxes to fund a much broader business rates relief package? This is the same proposed tax rise which has to cover a huge number of growing holes in public spending elsewhere (including: enterprise agencies, energy efficiency, the NHS, education, local authorities, sports, forestry, and every other area which is under criticism). Either that, or you increase borrowing/divert funding from elsewhere, but these arguments haven't been put forward. So, just to be clear, the SNP should raise taxes / borrowing / cut public spending further to help business? And this is with schemes like rural rates relief and the overly generous small business bonus still in place? The alternative is that the funding for a broader package of national rates relief would be allowed to fall on local authority budgets, but the whole point of the SNP's approach is that these decisions should be left to local authorities themselves, rather than central govt dictating that they should forego a portion of their income. Instead of bickering about these technicalities, lets all just agree that businesses who cannot or will not pay should be expropriated and collectivised as worker-run co-ops. After all, if they are such innovative and decisive agents of the capitalist market then they could have planned better.
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Feb 23, 2017 15:33
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This business rate stuff is weird, I've seen socialist pals who support Labour having a go at high business tax because... SNP bad?
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Feb 23, 2017 17:00
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Coohoolin posted:This business rate stuff is weird, I've seen socialist pals who support Labour having a go at high business tax because... SNP bad? Do they live in Aberdeen? The complaint with the hike here is that the new rates didn't account for the downturn in the oil industry.
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Feb 23, 2017 18:54
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Coohoolin posted:This business rate stuff is weird, I've seen socialist pals who support Labour having a go at high business tax because... SNP bad? To be fair to Jedit, he wasn't complaining about the principle of the rate rises, he was complaining about SNP councillors' hypocritical stance on them.
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Feb 23, 2017 19:23
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Niric posted:To be fair to Jedit, he wasn't complaining about the principle of the rate rises, he was complaining about SNP councillors' hypocritical stance on them. And the idiotic way they were conducted. The hikes were based on assessors reports mainly conducted before the downturn in oil. This reportedly led to some businesses in Aberdeen seeing their rates as much as triple while their trade fell off. The SNP could have accounted for this, but they are unwilling to because it would require admitting that the price of oil is likely to remain under $100/barrel and hence their White Paper for independence is complete make-believe.
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Feb 23, 2017 19:46
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Jedit posted:And the idiotic way they were conducted. The hikes were based on assessors reports mainly conducted before the downturn in oil. This reportedly led to some businesses in Aberdeen seeing their rates as much as triple while their trade fell off. The SNP could have accounted for this, but they are unwilling to because it would require admitting that the price of oil is likely to remain under $100/barrel and hence their White Paper for independence is complete make-believe. I think that is unlikely. These things are far more commonly screw up than conspiracy.
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Feb 23, 2017 22:23
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So? Either they're idiots or malicious and in neither scenario do they come out at the end looking good.
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Feb 23, 2017 22:29
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cargohills posted:So? Either they're idiots or malicious and in neither scenario do they come out at the end looking good. Quite. I suppose my only point is try and defeat the idiots, don't worry about the masterplan, it doesn't exist. That press release is just as cynical as it looks. Edit: If they aren't your flavour of idiot that is, trust me there are plenty to go round. Being a councillor is bizarre in a lot of ways, I campaigned with someone who was mainly a social worker one minute and the next was ostensibly in charge of a transport budget of 100s of millions. Did very well in my view, history may thank him. Few people are right now though. Zalakwe fucked around with this message at 22:38 on Feb 23, 2017 |
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Feb 23, 2017 22:34
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Zalakwe posted:I think that is unlikely. These things are far more commonly screw up than conspiracy. Yes? I said they were idiots, not that they were malicious. They also can't admit they were wrong about independence, for any number of reasons, but that's just another kind of stupidity.
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Feb 24, 2017 02:14
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So, those byelections. They're getting fairly comprehensively moaned about in the UKMT, so I don't really want to get into the whys and whatabouteries of the results here, but, much like the EUref, they've gotten me thinking about independence again. Again, like the EUref, this is likely just the morning after gloom of a despondent lefty talking, and it'll mostly dissipate in the coming weeks/months. And the SNP still frequently irritate me. And the economic arguments - still heavily weighted in the UK's favour - have not changed since Thursday morning. But, like the 2015 election, like the EU referendum, these byelections make me worried about the direction England's (and Wales's) political climate is heading, and makes strongly question whether that's a political climate I'd simply rather leave. It's not just that Labour lost Copeland, or that their vote share went down there and in Stoke. It's not just, in other words, that people increasingly are turned off Labour - for reasons endlessly theorised and moaned about in the UKMT, so again I'd rather not get into them here. It's that the vote share of the poo poo parties is increasing, and that 50% of voters are actively supporting the poo poo parties. It's so worrying to me because Labour's loss isn't just some FPTP fudge, a split vote or a swing easily repairable at the next election, but that a full majority of voters are willing to give their vote to parties that are, quite openly, both xenophobic and actively determined to undermine the idea that public services as a public good. Looking through wiki for previous election results, the poo poo party majority is a very recent phenomenon (n.b. I'm defining "overtly poo poo" here as Tory/UKIP/BNP/various other small right wing parties, and ignoring the independents because I know nothing about them, and generalised wildly to say a leave vote was akin to voting for the shits). It's also notable how broadly similar 2015 and 2017 are, which might be expected perhaps, but compare that with the very large differences between 2010 and 2015. I'm probably giving far too much importance to byelections, but following 2015, following the EUref, it really makes me think that England & Wales are drifting further and further away from me politically, and, at some point, that difference will be too much to bear. Copeland: (note, occasionally these don't add up to 100% due to, I assume, wiki's figures all being rounded to one decimal place) 1983, 1987, 1992, 1997, 2001, 2005, 2010, 2015, EUref, 2017 Shits: 39.9%, 43%, 43.4%, 32.6%, 37.5%, 35.9%, 42.8%, 51.3%, 62%, 50.8% Not-shits: 60.1%, 57%, 56.6%, 67.2%, 62.5%, 62%, 57.1%, 48.8%, 38%, 46.2% Independents 2.2% (2005) 3% (2017) Stoke Central: 1983, 1987, 1992, 1997, 2001, 2005, 2010, 2015, EUref, 2017 Shits: 29.4%, 31%, 27.9%, 20.9%, 18.8%, 28.4%, 33%, 45.2%, 69.4%, 50.1% Not-shits: 70.7%, 68.9% 72%, 79%, 75.4%, 71.7%, 60.9%, 47.9%, 30.6%, 48.9% Independents: 5.9% (2001), 6% (2010), 6.9% (2015), 0.9% (2017) Niric fucked around with this message at 10:55 on Feb 24, 2017 |
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Feb 24, 2017 10:50
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As if Scotland doesn't have a poo poo party in power, with no chance of anyone else taking over.
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Feb 24, 2017 11:02
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At some point, Scots are going to have to decide if Independence is more risky than Brexit and another 8-13 years of a guaranteed Tory majority government. That might end up being more fatal to the Union than any economic argument.
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Feb 24, 2017 11:09
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Surely the 'Brexit risk' is an economic argument?
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Feb 24, 2017 11:11
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Hey Jedit, Glasgow's Labour led Council has decided to make massive cuts against education and social services with an opinion that anyone that loses their job can just get a Cordia one. Who should I vote for?
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Feb 24, 2017 11:13
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Jedit posted:As if Scotland doesn't have a poo poo party in power, with no chance of anyone else taking over. I agree with the second point (and think that's a very bad thing), but by the terribly scientific metric in my previous post, I don't think the SNP count as as a poo poo party
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Feb 24, 2017 11:13
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Gonzo McFee posted:Hey Jedit, Glasgow's Labour led Council has decided to make massive cuts against education and social services with an opinion that anyone that loses their job can just get a Cordia one. Council cuts in England are a result of central government starving them of resources and forcing local government to put up council tax and/or make cuts. Is the situation different in Scotland?
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Feb 24, 2017 11:15
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Bad phrasing on my part. I meant Brexit giving the Tories absolute unchecked power for the next decade due to no EU oversight.
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Feb 24, 2017 11:17
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Pissflaps posted:Council cuts in England are a result of central government starving them of resources and forcing local government to put up council tax and/or make cuts. Is the situation different in Scotland? Yeah, that's why I was asking Jedit.
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Feb 24, 2017 11:17
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The only way anyone else will win in Scotland is if it's an independent country, otherwise the constitutional issue will keep defining political lines and unionists are split between three parties.
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Feb 24, 2017 11:21
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| # ? May 14, 2024 13:50 |
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I was half asleep listening to GMS this morning, did Kezia Dugdale confirm that Scottish Labour now support the devolution of employment law and the council tax freeze?
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Feb 24, 2017 11:22
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