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senrath posted:But no, as far as I can tell no one actually did it the intended way. Because the Dev team never loving told anyone what the intended way was, and the way they incredibly vaguely hinted at in a video was patched out not long after said video was released 
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Feb 24, 2017 06:29
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Rabbi Raccoon posted:Didn't Archael post here for a while when someone LP'd his game? Did he stick around? Yeah I think he was here for the LP that guy did like 2? years ago? I also think that LP is dead which makes me pretty sad. It was interesting, if nothing else. Malachite_Dragon posted:Because the Dev team never loving told anyone what the intended way was, and the way they incredibly vaguely hinted at in a video was patched out not long after said video was released I, too, somehow know about this thing without ever having played the game, but I'm kinda curious what the "intended way" was.
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Feb 24, 2017 06:30
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suicidesteve posted:I, too, somehow know about this thing without ever having played the game, but I'm kinda curious what the "intended way" was. If memory serves you had to goad Absolute Virtue into shifting into all of its forms by using all of the classes' 2-hour cooldown skills (yes, as in every single class in the game), and then when that had been dealt with, then you could take it down properly.
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Feb 24, 2017 06:34
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Someone did a big effortpost on the AV shitshow in an FF thread somewhere, I'm trying to dig it up.
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Feb 24, 2017 06:35
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theshim posted:IIRC he came back later and was actually not a dick? It's been a while. Honestly he was never that bad. Dude's just a crazy obsessive who made a mod balanced for other crazy obsessives. I wouldn't want to deal with the bullshit he put in, but that's why there is a content version. Lots of goons just get really mad when people like things they don't like, and then grasp for any reason to hate the guy. professor_curly posted:Actually the worst thing about FFT 1.3 was the mod author's OC do not steal boss with 999 hp that only ever took a maximum of 1 damage from any attack, and could instantly turn your characters into crystals. Someone figured out that if you positioned yourself very specifically you could get him to walk back and forth onto spike traps which dealt percentage damage, circumventing all his bullshit shields. Like seriously? He patched an exploit. What a monster!
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Feb 24, 2017 06:52
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Patrick Spens posted:Like seriously? He patched an exploit. What a monster!
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Feb 24, 2017 06:57
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rannum posted:there was definitely a sort of charm to Quartz' brand of nonsense. Might just be because of nostalgia? Man that's an old hack now, huh? No, there is a real charm. Quartz doesn't take itself seriously, and it shows. It's something a guy did for the hell of it, there's an excitement and a sense of "why the gently caress not?". I you could call it campy. Uranium on the other hand is the Manos: The Hands of Fate of pokemon romhacks.
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Feb 24, 2017 07:07
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Malachite_Dragon posted:I don't think you quite *get* the problem with 'dude only takes 1 damage from anything forever and can insta-crystallize your dudes' I mean, I'm not going to play that poo poo. But if Archael and people like him think its a good time than who cares?
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Feb 24, 2017 07:11
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Patrick Spens posted:Honestly he was never that bad. Dude's just a crazy obsessive who made a mod balanced for other crazy obsessives. I wouldn't want to deal with the bullshit he put in, but that's why there is a content version. Lots of goons just get really mad when people like things they don't like, and then grasp for any reason to hate the guy. The content version only came when there was an organized forum - one that wasn't his own - that stood together and said "we'd play this if only there weren't so much bullshit". In other words, if those goons hadn't've gotten mad, there wouldn't've been a content version. And even by adding that in, there was an undertone of "this is the version for whiny pissbabies who can't handle real games  ". That's what sets a lot of goons off, ironically - we don't want anyone to be smug, condescending assholes but ourselves.
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Feb 24, 2017 07:14
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Patrick Spens posted:Honestly he was never that bad. Dude's just a crazy obsessive who made a mod balanced for other crazy obsessives. I wouldn't want to deal with the bullshit he put in, but that's why there is a content version. Lots of goons just get really mad when people like things they don't like, and then grasp for any reason to hate the guy. He has said some pretty insufferably smug things but he did eventually tone down his attitude. But he was definitely always open about the fact that he was working with a broken toolkit. FFT has a lot of structural flaws that make it difficult to turn into a legitimate strategy challenge--not unlike Pokemon, to keep this tangentially on topic. But Uranium is built on a customizable platform from the ground up, so it has little excuse to not fix bullshit, whereas Archael started out with just pure data modding and only got into engine modding quite late in development IIRC.
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Feb 24, 2017 07:23
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professor_curly posted:Actually the worst thing about FFT 1.3 was the mod author's OC do not steal boss with 999 hp that only ever took a maximum of 1 damage from any attack, and could instantly turn your characters into crystals. Someone figured out that if you positioned yourself very specifically you could get him to walk back and forth onto spike traps which dealt percentage damage, circumventing all his bullshit shields. Wait wait wait... I remember the thread that attempted to play through 1.3. What was the intended way, if not "hit the dude 999 times without anyone dying"?
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Feb 24, 2017 09:47
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Regalingualius posted:Wait wait wait... "Haha, gently caress you and die"? Wasn't the superboss in question treated as a regular random encounter by the game as well, so you could just be going to the next plot point and lose your entire party?
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Feb 24, 2017 12:07
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Malachite_Dragon posted:Because the Dev team never loving told anyone what the intended way was, and the way they incredibly vaguely hinted at in a video was patched out not long after said video was released Non-obvious intended ways suck, but even worse is when everyone knows what it is but it blows and so they find other ways, which the devs patch out week after week. Vanilla D3 
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Feb 24, 2017 12:23
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KataraniSword posted:If memory serves you had to goad Absolute Virtue into shifting into all of its forms by using all of the classes' 2-hour cooldown skills (yes, as in every single class in the game), and then when that had been dealt with, then you could take it down properly. Close. The form-shifting was Pandemonium Warden, which people fought for so long they started to pass out. Absolute Virtue was different, he could use every class' once-every-two-hours super-moves basically at-will, and you had to counter with the same two-hour cooldown skill almost immediately afterwards in order to "lock" him out of using that particular skill again. No, there was no real pattern to which he would use, meaning yes, it was pure reaction time and entirely possible to blow your once-every-two-hours skill to no effect (unless you used banned 3rd party tools). And you still had to deal with the effects of the skills he used, including but not limited to, every hit by him becoming a critical, him completely evading every single melee strike for a period, him completely nullifying all melee damage for a time, and him completely healing to full health. Then, when he got to 60%, he would whip out a pair of bracelets and cast Meteor, wiping out everyone in the same area code (even those not actively engaged in fighting him) anyway. Nobody ever found the intended way of dealing with Meteor, if there ever was one, and he was only beatable once they raised the drat level cap and gave Summoners an AoE mitigate-99%-of-everything variant of their 2-hour skill.
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Feb 24, 2017 13:06
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I really don't get the whole "pet unbeatable boss" thing modders/romhackers keep doing. There was a mod for BG2 that did the same thing, just turned this one c-list vampire boss into an unbeatable supervillain. So dude on Youtube figured out a spell to get around his bullshit, and the modder promptly made the boss immune to the spell the next update. I'm pretty sure the boss was on the critical path, too.
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Feb 24, 2017 13:30
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I remember the 1.3 guy coming into an lp of his hack, getting called out for his lovely attitude, and actually having a moment of self-reflection and chilling out. v vThere were three major strategies for killing Absolute Virtue before the level cap increase, the first two of which got a whole bunch of prominent endgame players banned because SE's NA GMs were generally incompetent hardasses. The first kill ever involved kiting AV, a guy who can instant cast black magic that is fully capable of instantly killing a geared top-level tank (up to and including just casting Death, which is unblockable and instantly fatal), across the entire, huge zone full of powerful aggressive monsters that ambush you, dying in a very specific corner, then having your alliance attack him through a wall on the other side of that corner with black magic. His AI couldn't target anyone through the wall so you just grinded him down and prayed he decided not to use Benediction to instantly fully restore his health (he could do this as many times as he wanted at any point in the fight). iirc the entire alliance that killed him in this manner got permabanned as the glitch was fixed the next day. Additional fun fact: The first ever AV kill dropped no items whatsoever, so the entire effort was for nothing except a title! Yay! The second strategy involved kiting AV to a much closer NPC that let you re-watch cutscenes, and quickly starting a cutscene. AV's AI breaks, he wants to attack a character that doesn't exist in the play area so he just bricks. This strategy got used several times before it was patched and pretty much everyone who "tanked" AV this way got permabanned. The final strategy involved rushing AV down in a matter of seconds with the highest-DPS spike in the game: Dark Knights and their Souleater skill, combined with a extremely rare weapon worth tens of millions of gil: The Kraken Club. Souleater burns your HP, and then adds the amount of HP burnt to your weapon damage. The kclub did very little damage per hit, but did so quickly and up to eight times in a single attack. Souleater's damage was additive, not multiplicative, so you would do thousands of damage with a single regular attack, both to the enemy and yourself. To stop yourself from instantly dying, you combined this with Dark Knight's two-hour skill, Blood Weapon, to heal yourself for the amount of damage you deal, completely cancelling out the HP loss from Souleater. With an alliance of dark knights sporting hundreds of millions of gil worth of kraken clubs, you could take down AV without using an exploit. SE got steamed over this one and invented a damage resistance specifically to Souleater that, at least at the time, was unique to Absolute Virtue, thus making the strategy useless. At least no one got banned over this one  edited for clarity/flow/typos Chillgamesh fucked around with this message at 13:39 on Feb 24, 2017 |
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Feb 24, 2017 13:32
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I have to say, all this is making me feel a lot better about Advance Wars' Advance Campaign. At least medium tanks and bombers have weaknesses and can be crippled, and if you can find a way to make that repeatable then it doesn’t matter so much how many of them there are.
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Feb 24, 2017 13:37
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Why did SE get so pissy over people beating their precious boss? I mean some teenage romhacker throwing a fit because someone killed his super special self-insert OC I can get. But professional (well,  professional) developers having the same reaction to people beating a difficult boss in their non-free non-romhack official game?
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Feb 24, 2017 14:12
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I want to say this has been mentioned but I've been searching for discussions about it so I'm probably getting mixed up: the wins they banned people for, the "unintended methods", were actually exploit abuses. People have since beaten him legit with no repercussions. E: This isn't really meant as a defense of the bans, but it's a good bit better as a reason than "they beat my oc baby" AlphaKretin fucked around with this message at 14:20 on Feb 24, 2017 |
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Feb 24, 2017 14:15
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Kerning Chameleon posted:I really don't get the whole "pet unbeatable boss" thing modders/romhackers keep doing. There was a mod for BG2 that did the same thing, just turned this one c-list vampire boss into an unbeatable supervillain. So dude on Youtube figured out a spell to get around his bullshit, and the modder promptly made the boss immune to the spell the next update. Tactics is a bullshit mod redeemed only by the joke Ilyich encounter.
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Feb 24, 2017 14:28
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Oh, I forgot, one of the best details about Absolute Virtue was that he was the last boss in a huge chain of bosses, most of which required an alliance of 8-12 of players to deal with, and the final one usually needing a full alliance of 18 players. You farmed items and converted them into a token used to summon the first three bosses, then those three dropped tokens for the next three, then the three from those were used to spawn the final one. Absolute Virtue had a 50% chance of spawning immediately after you killed the final boss in the chain. In other words, any time you wanted to fight AV, you had to spend hours upon hours farming your way up to the last boss in the chain, and then win a coin toss. This was another reason why no one ever figured out how the gently caress to kill him; you needed dozens of players ready to go fight a boss that was just as likely to not spawn for no reason whatsoever.
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Feb 24, 2017 14:52
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AlphaKretin posted:I want to say this has been mentioned but I've been searching for discussions about it so I'm probably getting mixed up: the wins they banned people for, the "unintended methods", were actually exploit abuses. People have since beaten him legit with no repercussions. The first two are fair enough, but patching DRK KC zerg was a bit silly. I get the frustration of people brute-forcing your puzzle boss but if they have to resort to that, you've designed a lovely puzzle boss.
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Feb 24, 2017 16:32
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Heaven Spacey posted:Oh, I forgot, one of the best details about Absolute Virtue was that he was the last boss in a huge chain of bosses, most of which required an alliance of 8-12 of players to deal with, and the final one usually needing a full alliance of 18 players. You farmed items and converted them into a token used to summon the first three bosses, then those three dropped tokens for the next three, then the three from those were used to spawn the final one.  Did the people who make the game hate humanity or something?
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Feb 24, 2017 16:43
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Dr. Fetus posted:
There's a reason why, when Yoshida was given the flaming trash heap that was FFXIV 1.0 (which was literally just a prettier and even more obnoxious FFXI) he decided to have the game world die so he would have an excuse to completely rework as much of the game as possible from the ground up for A Realm Reborn. Back to Pokemon, it's safe to say that there's a lot of bias towards very specific Pokemon and strategies in this game, but we still have to actually reach them before we comment on them. I will say this though: when I tried getting the game to run, there was an event going where people were tossing around perfect-IV pokemon out into Wonder Trade because the accepted solution to the game is to not actually play it normally, but to grab a team of perfect-IV pokemon off Wonder Trade to "fix" the EXP curve and have the overpowered mons before you have access to them normally.
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Feb 24, 2017 17:01
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Dr. Fetus posted:
I had a friend who played FFXI, and every time he told me about it, there was always some new horrible dick move. Weapons that took literal real-life years to grind for, giant monsters appearing near newbies zones and murdering new players, content so punishing of any sort of creativity in making one's build that most people refused to team with anyone that didn't have a "correct" build, literally the only thing about the game that sounded the least bit appealing were the words "Final Fantasy", and given the series' reputation around that time, even that wasn't much of a selling point. This is why I like Pokemon. I may miss some features when they're not brought back (like Super Training), and I may not be a fan of all the new features, but I can at least rest assured that Game Freak is genuinely trying to give the players a fun game that gives them the freedom to Pokemon the way they want to.
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Feb 24, 2017 17:55
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 There's a second path through Route 1 available with Rock Smash.  There's no animation for the rock being smashed.  There's no grass - Pokemon Essentials can only handle encounters by type by map by the way - but there are some trainers here. They don't have interesting Pokemon but they are mostly new trainer types. Incidentally, I changed the wild Pokemon music. OFSelects: T.Rex - Metal Guru And the trainer battle music. OFSelects: Beck - Devil's Haircut  Triathletes have no notable qualities as I don't believe Uranium has biking and swimming ones, which is what made them triathletes in the first place!  Fishermen generally have Pokemon caught via fishing! I need to cross-reference Fishermen teams with fishing encounters to see if one accidentally has a surf guy. Don't look at the names too closely!  Gertha is the only expert in the entire game!  And Tompkins.  Ostensibly the reward is a rare candy, but the real reward is a path back to Moki town without random encounters.  Establishing shot.  Traveling all over the region is good for completing the pokedex, after all, and we need an excuse for Dick Solomon to accidentally get in all sorts of shenanigans.  The boulders blocking the way to the east are a known and consistent quality of Moki Town.  He also checks our Pokedex. I'm being very good at it!  Bamb'o will give us various rewards for reaching certain thresholds.  For example, he gives us a rare candy for obtaining 10 Pokemon.  And something else waits at 20! This is actually a neat feature, I think. It incentivizes catching things while not being all-or-nothing like the official games, and it gives a reason to return to the professor's lab whenever you have a chance. Uranium doesn't give you many chances. This is the last time we're required to go to Moki Town until the post-game, and it's really out of the way to reach. Even the subway station is two routes away.  Anyway, smahing the rocks we have finally liberated Moki Town. Until I hit a screen transition and the rocks reload.  Immediately in route 3 we hit a trainer.  She has a new pokemon, a fire ant. Get it? Well it's only somewhat of a pun as it is merely one of three ants.  This joke is... okay!  Mankey and Owten are far, far more common here than on route 2. Thankfully it's not like we had to clear the normal-type gym to get here or anything. OH WAIT  By the way, Headbutt has its HG/SS functionality programmed in i.e. shaking wild Pokemon out of trees. No trees are actually programmed to do this, though.   Well, uh, hi there, endgame-quality move. This is the best special grass move for, well, everything that learns it.  I am good at nicknames.  I have to bear with Uranium's fishing mechanics some more. Ugh, ugh.  It's worth it, though. Lotad and its evolutions are unchanged from vanilla, but the circumstances around them re. Giga Drain TM and Water Stone are on route 3 make them a lot better.  I get my own ant.  Bless you, ants.  Hey I feel like doing this apropos of nothing.  I got a second mankey hoping it'd be better specced than Dankey (it wasn't) so let's wonder trade it!  I got another Barewl. That's wonder trading!  gently caress YOU  Sand castles!!!!   Lotadio splashes in!!!! And he wins damage races he shouldn't due to Giga Drain's power and recovery!  Be glad, lass and bug fans in the audience. Uranium does not treat Bug like a joke type in the slightest.   Encore's an interesting move with deep tactical applications that we'll never see because that's only in pvp.  I like referring to better rpgmaker productions.   Let's never speak of Snatch again.  Black Belts specialize in fighting types. That's about it!  Buizel is also unchanged from vanilla. It's a 1% encounter. Welcome to Uranium. Welnium.  Route 3 isn't too long, and its s-shape of going down to the beach and up to the grass is kinda neat. Too bad there's no real shortcut.  Anyway, next is Burole Town, a location that forgot to have much of a coherent theme.
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Feb 24, 2017 18:05
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All this talk of FFXI bullshit is kinda reminding me of WoW's Ahn'Qiraj raid when it launched. Just the act of opening it up for your server was a feat in and of itself, requiring an extremely long questline that involved one person doing an excessive amount of grinding, using tons of the rarest and most expensive crafting materials, doing the most challenging raid up to that point within a time limit... And so much more. What awaited them on the other side was probably one of the most miserable raids that the WoW dev team has ever created in all of the game's history. To start, it was all set in a massive underground bug hive that looked incredibly same-y. The generic monsters later on in the raid were legitimately more difficult than the bosses you had beaten to get to them. And the bosses themselves were no slouch either, having incredibly weird gimmicks (like a slime boss you had to freeze solid, then shatter it and kill the mini-slimes when they tried to reform), required you to get tons of incredibly rare resistance gear, or both. This all came to a head with the final boss, C'thun. To make a long story short: he was legitimately unbeatable as designed when the raid was released. One of the highlights was having a chain-lighting attack that increased in damage with each subsequent hit... That he could cast right at the start, when everyone was filtering into his room through the only entrance. On the upside, the developers were willing to concede it, and nerfed him a bit; the world first kill came shortly after.
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Feb 24, 2017 18:28
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Regalingualius posted:All this talk of FFXI bullshit is kinda reminding me of WoW's Ahn'Qiraj raid when it launched. I have to wonder how you release an unbeatable boss. Like did you not test that someone can beat it to make sure it doesn't crash the server and send everyone's credit cards directly to the Russian Mafia or something?
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Feb 24, 2017 18:33
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Watermine is a good name. That is all.
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Feb 24, 2017 18:38
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Holy poo poo, I think this might be the laziest goddamn pokemon design of all time. So it's a regular ant, whose name is just a very tangentially related common noun, not any sort of pun or portmanteau or wordplay.
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Feb 24, 2017 18:41
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I don't get Smore. I don't see anything that has to do with ants in it. 
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Feb 24, 2017 18:43
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ImpAtom posted:I have to wonder how you release an unbeatable boss. Like did you not test that someone can beat it to make sure it doesn't crash the server and send everyone's credit cards directly to the Russian Mafia or something? Difficulty is kind of hard to test properly especially for things that you want to have take a long time. You don't want your QA team to have to do a two-hour raid every time they need to test something, so you code in shortcuts. It's pretty easy to forget to do a real run before release, especially with how practically every AAA videogame seems to go through a massive amount of "crunch time" during which people are spending so much time at work that they aren't really able to think clearly. Put another way: software development practices are often dysfunctional, with the net result that significant bugs make it through to the final release.
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Feb 24, 2017 18:48
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ImpAtom posted:I have to wonder how you release an unbeatable boss. Like did you not test that someone can beat it to make sure it doesn't crash the server and send everyone's credit cards directly to the Russian Mafia or something? That's a large part of why they now have public test realms for upcoming raids for people to determine if a particular boss's ability, HP, etc. is overtuned for its' intended difficulty.
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Feb 24, 2017 18:50
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Tired Moritz posted:I don't get Smore. I don't see anything that has to do with ants in it. it's a stylized ant, it's got the abdomen and stuff but the design has been, for lack of a better word, cutified a bit. kinda makes this post Straight White Shark posted:Holy poo poo, I think this might be the laziest goddamn pokemon design of all time. So it's a regular ant, whose name is just a very tangentially related common noun, not any sort of pun or portmanteau or wordplay. seem dumb to me, cause it's got enough different from a regular ant to be sufficiently poke-fied in my eyes it's def more different looking from a common ant then any of the early bird pokemon have from regular birds in the real games
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Feb 24, 2017 18:55
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unless you meant why it was named smore, that's a dumb name bc the creator of this game isn't very smart
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Feb 24, 2017 18:56
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mandatory lesbian posted:it's a stylized ant, it's got the abdomen and stuff but the design has been, for lack of a better word, cutified a bit. But what does that have to do with s'mores?
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Feb 24, 2017 18:57
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The way you phrased that bit about visiting the lab seems odd. Is Fly also post-game or something?
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Feb 24, 2017 19:00
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:But what does that have to do with s'mores? beat you by one minute, chump!
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Feb 24, 2017 19:01
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I think my least favourite thing about that ant is that it's just a straight Bug type?? Like the name is dumb and barely connected, because campsites I guess, but it could've been slightly more relevant by making one little change.
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Feb 24, 2017 19:03
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mandatory lesbian posted:unless you meant why it was named smore, that's a dumb name bc the creator of this game isn't very smart I mean the whole concept. There's some kind of association with fire since it learns fire moves and is named after a campfire food, but there's nothing in the design to really suggest that it's supposed to be fiery except for being red, which is a common color for regular ants that don't shoot fire. If this was supposed to be basic generic ant pokemon then the design "works", but ants generically have only an incredibly tenuous connection with campfires (in that they are both things found outdoors) and definitely do not shoot fire. Even if it had a loving campfire on its back or whatever Smore would still be a really dumb lazy name, though. Like, give it a crumb to carry around and call it Smorsel and bam now you've got an actual pokemon maybe
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Feb 24, 2017 19:09
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