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Can an AI with Deity bonuses actually reach enough unhappiness to have rebels?
Geight fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Feb 24, 2017 |
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Feb 24, 2017 19:01
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| # ? May 14, 2024 05:07 |
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SKULL.GIF posted:Gort, you really should submit these tests to Firaxis directly or something. This is very useful feedback. Seriously, if this is not the level to which Firaxis themselves have tested their patch then I want to know what they did spend their time on. I think it is reasonable to assume they know about those bugs and it's just a case of them going "good enough, ship it".
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Feb 24, 2017 19:20
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theroachman posted:Seriously, if this is not the level to which Firaxis themselves have tested their patch then I want to know what they did spend their time on. I think it is reasonable to assume they know about those bugs and it's just a case of them going "good enough, ship it". Losing a city makes most people quit. And most people playing aren't very good. I fit both of these things. I've never noticed that the AI can't take walled cities because it's never really come to that in my games. HOWEVER them constantly retreating and swapping their armies around so the hurt units aren't in the line of fire is something I see get noticed all the time. While it's good that Gort has done those tests I don't think that it'd matter to too many people.
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Feb 24, 2017 19:23
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Thing is, I played AI-modded Civ 4 where if you don't keep up in your unit production a loving tidal wave of Zulus just eat you alive, so I look out for an AI that's just utterly incompetent when it comes to achieving things in warfare. And if I can subtly ruin the fun of an entire fanbase at the same time, that's just gravy.
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Feb 24, 2017 19:32
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As I understand it "repair outer defenses" only appears if your city hasn't taken damage for some time. It might also count your encampment being attacked.
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Feb 24, 2017 19:52
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theroachman posted:Seriously, if this is not the level to which Firaxis themselves have tested their patch then I want to know what they did spend their time on. I think it is reasonable to assume they know about those bugs and it's just a case of them going "good enough, ship it". I mean...I don't know poo poo about testing but why couldn't you just set up these scenarios and run them ten thousand times, collate the results and iterate from there? (genuine question)
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Feb 24, 2017 20:04
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Efexeye posted:I mean...I don't know poo poo about testing but why couldn't you just set up these scenarios and run them ten thousand times, collate the results and iterate from there? (genuine question) You'd need to write a process actually capable of doing that, which might not be worth the hours compared to just paying some flesh testers to do it manually. On top of that, AI problems are usually immediately apparent, like with Gort noticing that bombers were wasting attacks on already-destroyed targets.
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Feb 24, 2017 20:20
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Efexeye posted:I mean...I don't know poo poo about testing but why couldn't you just set up these scenarios and run them ten thousand times, collate the results and iterate from there? (genuine question) You could let AIs battle it out and take out some high-level details ("does the AI ever manage to take a city with walls", etc) but you'd need human eyes to spot odd behaviour like pointless unit shuffling, etc. Incidentally I seem to recall from much earlier in this thread that Firaxis did in fact run a series of AI battle royales on a big screen somewhere in their office, one of which they eventually streamed. And I recall at some point someone saying that the AI they used at the time was the barbarian AI, so war was far more aggressive. Can anyone confirm? Maybe that's why these things were never picked up - it looked fine, then they made some (really bad) tweaks toward the end of the dev cycle, did some token testing and shipped it.
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Feb 24, 2017 23:12
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:You could let AIs battle it out and take out some high-level details ("does the AI ever manage to take a city with walls", etc) but you'd need human eyes to spot odd behaviour like pointless unit shuffling, etc. The "AI was too good" ruse.
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Feb 24, 2017 23:15
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Generally speaking, the nature of a Civ game means that if one of your cities was conquered, the only way you could really catch up in the overall victory race would be to not only take that city back, but conquer more, right?
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Feb 25, 2017 04:48
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Mild little graphical detail they added in this patch: national parks now actually have a little graphical model on the map besides the green ring. They basically use the Outback Station's outpost and fence around the area, but hey it's something! Still can't rotate the damned things.
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Feb 25, 2017 04:50
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:And I recall at some point someone saying that the AI they used at the time was the barbarian AI, so war was far more aggressive. Can anyone confirm? I don't remember this part, but I do remember them saying that out of all the simulations ran that an AI never won a conquest victory even once so....
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Feb 25, 2017 05:51
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Alkydere posted:Mild little graphical detail they added in this patch: national parks now actually have a little graphical model on the map besides the green ring. They basically use the Outback Station's outpost and fence around the area, but hey it's something! I think they were fenced in before and (I missed this as well until I really looked at it) there's no horizontal diamond given the hex testlation.
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Feb 25, 2017 05:53
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Cythereal posted:As a Florida native, I'm still holding out for the Seminole. It's past time someone in the series actually likes and benefits from marshes. If you're still playing 5, there's an extremely enjoyable Calusa mod. I can't recall exactly what it does though as I always played it in conjunction with the Events and Decisions mod.
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Feb 25, 2017 06:13
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Yeah there's no sideways diamond but they should really allow the two ways you can have a sloped diamond.Mameluke posted:If you're still playing 5, there's an extremely enjoyable Calusa mod. I can't recall exactly what it does though as I always played it in conjunction with the Events and Decisions mod.
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Feb 25, 2017 06:15
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I love how the reviews for the new DLC are "mostly negative" with most of them complaining that the DLC isn't meaty enough to count towards what was promised in the season pass. It's funny cause I don't know what they were actually expecting when what they are doing with VI is no different than how they did it for V. Protip: Don't buy season passes unless you know exactly what is included or it has a big discount.
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Feb 25, 2017 06:19
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New Civs are exactly what I want and expect from DLC, and what I wanted from the season pass. I'd have been disappointed if a dlc was wasted on maps or scenarios with no new civ.
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Feb 25, 2017 07:10
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I've noticed that the AI actually says "no" when I request things now, instead of always promising to not settle/convert and then immediately breaking the promise. Baby steps, I guess. Though every request I've made has been denied so maybe they've just swung the other way completely (even my ally Norway refused to quite converting my cities). Also the AI seems a bit more agreeable diplomatically now if you don't rack up a huge warmonger penalty, I've actually managed to get a very early game alliance going in my first post-patch Australia game. Of course this resulted in my ally declaring war on another Civ in the Renaissance era, slapping me with a big warmonger penalty, so I guess I probably shouldn't actually do it (I just wanted the Inspiration for diplomatic service dangit). Magil Zeal fucked around with this message at 08:13 on Feb 25, 2017 |
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Feb 25, 2017 07:57
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 Anyone wants to join a PBEM game? We're still looking for a replacement for Cascadeβ who, in his own words "completely lost all interest in Civ". In Goon Game 2 he plays Trajan, in Goon Game 3 he's Teddy Roosevelt. Both games are still in the beginning, around turn 20, so you'd actually been missing only the opening. There's still enough opportunity to play the game how you want. If you want to join, send me a PM. You can take the spot in both games or in just one, whatever you prefer. Sorry for reposting this, it might have gotten lost in all the excitement about the new patch.
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Feb 25, 2017 09:29
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Magil Zeal posted:I've noticed that the AI actually says "no" when I request things now, instead of always promising to not settle/convert and then immediately breaking the promise. Baby steps, I guess. Though every request I've made has been denied so maybe they've just swung the other way completely (even my ally Norway refused to quite converting my cities). 
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Feb 25, 2017 09:42
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Gort posted:Tests jet bombers seem to be doing the heavy lifting in most of these. which is fair enough for the era, but, well, most of the game is pre-bombers.
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Feb 25, 2017 13:24
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Thing I have figured out: the Australia scenario map is Australia-shaped, but other than that it's random as far as where everything is. So you can't just say "okay, it looks like Brisbane should go here" and expect it all to work out right. 
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Feb 25, 2017 14:41
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Prav posted:jet bombers seem to be doing the heavy lifting in most of these. which is fair enough for the era, but, well, most of the game is pre-bombers. Yeah some tests in the not-information era would be interesting too, since the "surprise war from your nearest neighbor" is the most common kind of conflict in civ and tends to happen earlier than later.
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Feb 25, 2017 14:56
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So uhhh PBEM Goon game IV is dead or what? I've only had one turn in the last 9 days.
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Feb 25, 2017 15:28
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theroachman posted:Seriously, if this is not the level to which Firaxis themselves have tested their patch then I want to know what they did spend their time on. I think it is reasonable to assume they know about those bugs and it's just a case of them going "good enough, ship it". People are apparently buying the garbage anyway. Why bother making it good when the franchise name is doing all the work.
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Feb 25, 2017 16:16
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Well I just finished up the weirdest game. The whole game I'm wondering why there's so much empty land, why there's only four civs (including myself) and a single city state on the entire map. At first I'm confident its because I missed some player defeat messages early on but nope, I scan the AI cities and not one has an out of place name. So I soldier on and sure enough it seems that Germany, Poland and the rest of the city states failed to even spawn in, or settle. They're all listed in the end-of-game graph but there's no data present for any of them.
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Feb 25, 2017 16:32
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PK loving SUBBAN posted:So uhhh PBEM Goon game IV is dead or what? I've only had one turn in the last 9 days. PBEM IV also needs a replacement for CascadeBeta, unfortunately. I say if there's no takers within a day we should just let the AI have his civs.
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Feb 25, 2017 16:41
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Alkydere posted:Well I just finished up the weirdest game. The whole game I'm wondering why there's so much empty land, why there's only four civs (including myself) and a single city state on the entire map. At first I'm confident its because I missed some player defeat messages early on but nope, I scan the AI cities and not one has an out of place name. They could have lost their initial settler or something. I just saw Japan get through the entire game without actually founding any more cities despite sitting on three or four settlers. The AI just sat and did nothing until the Romans conquered them about 4 turns before I won the game. The AI is definitely a bit better at combat now, and I have seen it take cities. Though cliffs seem to confuse it a bit as it sat a bunch of units in the water moving back and forth while I plinked away at them with a city.
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Feb 25, 2017 16:42
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Alkydere posted:Well I just finished up the weirdest game. The whole game I'm wondering why there's so much empty land, why there's only four civs (including myself) and a single city state on the entire map. At first I'm confident its because I missed some player defeat messages early on but nope, I scan the AI cities and not one has an out of place name. I had a very similar experience a couple days ago and just wrote it off as me accidentally picking Standard or something instead of my usual Tiny/Small. Is there a way to check my map parameters while ingame?
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Feb 25, 2017 16:45
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Gort posted:Test 2 settings: Any way to find out what the Aztec civ as a whole was doing on the world stage while this was going on?
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Feb 25, 2017 16:54
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SKULL.GIF posted:I had a very similar experience a couple days ago and just wrote it off as me accidentally picking Standard or something instead of my usual Tiny/Small. The map size is recorded in the save files, so you can go to the Load Game screen and check your saves or autosaves.
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Feb 25, 2017 17:21
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Powerful Two-Hander posted:They could have lost their initial settler or something. I just find it weird that so many of the AIs lost their settler. Heck, I'm not sure *how* an AI would lose their settler since they all go before the barbarians and the very first AI move is to build a city. It was just weird and empty because everyone got their own continent, and except for Scythia everyone had room on their continent. Though the Vikings seemed more interested in settling on Japan's continent than their own, there was plenty of space left by the end of the game. On the plus side though, between having lots of space and playing Russia which likes to spread out I had space for a whopping 3 national parks.
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Feb 25, 2017 17:34
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Byzantine posted:PBEM IV also needs a replacement for CascadeBeta, unfortunately. Second.
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Feb 25, 2017 17:51
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Byzantine posted:PBEM IV also needs a replacement for CascadeBeta, unfortunately. Agreedo, I was wondering why our games had all stalled.
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Feb 25, 2017 20:06
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theres a will theres moe posted:People are apparently buying the garbage anyway. Why bother making it good when the franchise name is doing all the work. I'd be fine with this approach if they also provided ample modding tools for their fanbase to fix their games for them. They do not.
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Feb 25, 2017 20:34
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Yeah, jeez, they really should add modding tools to the game already.
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Feb 25, 2017 20:41
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Playing team game with my wife. It seems we don't share diplomacy friendships, nor do we share techs. Weird.
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Feb 25, 2017 21:22
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Vahakyla posted:Playing team game with my wife. It seems we don't share diplomacy friendships, nor do we share techs. Weird. So it's still poo poo? Great.
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Feb 25, 2017 21:28
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However now entering an alliancce will share vision between me and my AI buddies, which is nice. Entering into alliance also made him my wife's ally, so some diplo is shared. Edir: also you get the boost when youe teammate gets a tech, not the whole tech. Vahakyla fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Feb 25, 2017 |
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Feb 25, 2017 21:33
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| # ? May 14, 2024 05:07 |
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For people who like focused on building big and awesome cities, and either hate war or just hate-war-because-AI, the Australia scenario is actually pretty awesome. * No combat, no real competition - the AI plops a few cities down at first to claim some areas, but they don't really do much, so it's entirely on whether you can puzzle out how to build an empire that hits an income threshold. * No settler building - you get them from certain techs. So it's less about ICS and more about doing the best you can with 8 cities. * It's 60 turns long, so it's designed to be quick. * The outline of Australia is the same, but the interior is random each time. I've been playing it all day, and I'm definitely glad I dropped the :fivebucks: on it. I still haven't won on King difficulty, but I can regularly hit Prince.
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Feb 25, 2017 21:50
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