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Spangly A posted:who gives a poo poo where our doctors come from if they can practice medicine and communicate with a patient? quote:Jeremy Hunt's work ban is laughable and no, it's not reasonable.
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Feb 25, 2017 16:29
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spectralent posted:73,000 die of heart attacks in the UK alone every year. Last year one person died because of a terrorist, which the media largely decided wasn't a big deal. The problem with your logic is that you're relying on the failure of counter-terrorism to judge its value - it'd be like cutting cancer screening because instances of cancer were going down.
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Feb 25, 2017 16:30
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jBrereton posted:
No, we aren't. That's the great thing. It's a legal matter, so it's not up to Jeremy Hunt. It'll be up to an unsympathetic foreign country. jBrereton posted:Quite a lot of care recipients, even if you or I don't care. Then they can die.
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Feb 25, 2017 16:31
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its all well and good to scoff about how terrorist attacks are actually a very rare occurrence or whatever but counter terrorism and defence are real issues that, come the election, the tories will give Corbyn an absolute hammering over
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Feb 25, 2017 16:31
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Spangly A posted:And at absolutely no point should the British be misled into thinking their treatment of the IRA was in any way just or fair. It wasn't. Stop posting about poo poo you have no idea about
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Feb 25, 2017 16:32
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People who're being saved from crippling illness but aren't happy about it because their doctor isn't sufficiently porcelain-toned can shut the gently caress up and live with it, living they are allowed to do because highly qualified arabs, asians, and africans have chosen to dedicate their lives to preserving the lives of others and deserve some loving gratitude for.
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Feb 25, 2017 16:33
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Doctors aside, there's also dangerous nurse staffing levels, cuts to public health, community, mental health and learning disability services. The nhs is criminally underfunded
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Feb 25, 2017 16:35
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Comrade Cheggorsky posted:its all well and good to scoff about how terrorist attacks are actually a very rare occurrence or whatever but counter terrorism and defence are real issues that, come the election, the tories will give Corbyn an absolute hammering over Yeah but again, this is because people think simultaneously that: 1) The country is under a dire state of warfare, the most serious since the blitz, where days went past with hundreds of people being killed and that this is the fault of a racial minority and 2) Despite the above, last year nobody died because of terrorism at all. This is a really alarming level of detachment from reality and especially so when it's used to influence policy decisions.
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Feb 25, 2017 16:35
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Despite inventing modern medicine white people are apparently incapable of being trained to perform it
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Feb 25, 2017 16:35
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In Lincolnshire maternity services will be done by a single unit in lincoln, dangerous for people on the outskirts of one of the largest counties in the country.
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Feb 25, 2017 16:36
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croc suit posted:Stop posting about poo poo you have no idea about You first. The British colonised and subjugated my homeland. You and everyone who would defend this deserve no sympathy.
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Feb 25, 2017 16:37
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"The UN called it a human rights violation but that's totally fair because ireland bad" get loving bombed.
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Feb 25, 2017 16:37
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Spangly A posted:You first. The British colonised and subjugated my homeland. You and everyone who would defend this deserve no sympathy. A 'fair' response would have been random indiscriminate mass murders of fenian "civilians"
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Feb 25, 2017 16:38
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croc suit posted:A 'fair' response would have been random indiscriminate mass murders of fenian "civilians" A fair response would be a fair trial. Get bombed.
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Feb 25, 2017 16:38
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Spangly A posted:"The UN called it a human rights violation but that's totally fair because ireland bad" croc suit posted:A 'fair' response would have been random indiscriminate mass murders of fenian "civilians" 
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Feb 25, 2017 16:39
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spectralent posted:People who're being saved from crippling illness but aren't happy about it because their doctor isn't sufficiently porcelain-toned can shut the gently caress up and live with it, living they are allowed to do because highly qualified arabs, asians, and africans have chosen to dedicate their lives to preserving the lives of others and deserve some loving gratitude for. the highly qualified Eastern Europeans, Arabs, Asians, and Africans would be quite happy to come to Britain to practice or to obtain medical training (or both), even if the British government did not spend quite so much cash on subsidies on medical training or resources diverted from actual health provision towards each generation of new trainees this is Hunt's trump card, which is why it is the access to UK hospitals for postings that is being held hostage here
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Feb 25, 2017 16:39
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I also had a great grandmother who was Irish so i feel uniquely qualified to post on the subject of The Troubles.
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Feb 25, 2017 16:39
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Pissflaps posted:I also had a great grandmother who was Irish so i feel uniquely qualified to post on the subject of The Troubles. I'm a first gen.
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Feb 25, 2017 16:40
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Spangly A posted:I'm a first gen. I don't know what this means.
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Feb 25, 2017 16:40
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spectralent posted:73,000 die of heart attacks in the UK alone every year. Last year one person died because of a terrorist, which the media largely decided wasn't a big deal. I dunno mate, Jo Cox was On The News. quote:At this ratio, terrorism defence should be about 2 million. Though GCHQ probably also do various cyberwarfare stuff, which has also done much more practical damage to the country than terrorism. I'm not mad keen on spying either, but the perception that the world can be made secure by a handful of dedicated people with a huge gently caress off computer is apparently important to a lot of the public, and especially if Jeremy Corbyn was the guy who said "let's shut that down, it isn't currently appearing to do anything good and we'd save enough money to cover the on-paper overspend for 3 seasons of the NHS" I think it'd get a pretty frosty reception. You can increase health spending, that's probably a good idea even. Especially alongside social care spending. But turning it into a zero sum game when you could slightly increase taxes and keep the UK's honestly pretty low security spend going to keep the people who think it's important on side is madness. The spying spend is about 1% of the pensions and healthcare spend. You can restrain it, sure, but anything further than that while the UK is in theory at least fighting ISIS in Syria and Iraq is unlikely to look good. quote:And, in answer to your dumb rhetorical question, I would say the people who will argue that we didn't even have a terrorist attack last year because he was white but we definitely need to build a fence around the chunnel to stop the muslims getting in are the morons with no perspective.
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Feb 25, 2017 16:40
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ronya posted:the highly qualified Eastern Europeans, Arabs, Asians, and Africans would be quite happy to come to Britain to practice or to obtain medical training (or both), even if the British government did not spend quite so much cash on subsidies on medical training or resources diverted from actual health provision towards each generation of new trainees I would argue that the subsidies to medical training are good, because we need more staff.
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Feb 25, 2017 16:41
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serious gaylord posted:Ah yes, lets see how 'He wants to cut back on anti terrorism spending' goes down with the public. Anti terror spending isn't merely a waste of money, it's actively oppressive. Cutting back the inflation of powers the security services have would be a good fight for the left to get into, if we weren't such loving cowards - we should be loving screaming from the rooftops about the snooper's charter. We should also raise the issue of Brexit undermining the Northern Ireland peace process. The general point is that I think Labour should be getting out of its comfort zone of happy bland vague ideas everyone agrees with, and creating confrontations with the right.
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Feb 25, 2017 16:42
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Having specialist centers is fine but there needs to be enough of them to cover their areas, so again we come back to "more money". And, honestly, I was talking about cutting the terrorism budget but while I think that threat's grossly over-inflated for ideological reasons, you don't even need to do that. If you reversed the corporation tax cut you'd get something like 6-8 billion a year. Look at top-rate tax again, too, reintroduce the 60p bracket. Look at an unoccupied property tax, and maybe unfuck the housing market while you're at it when sitting on property to speculate becomes a liability. Spangly A posted:get loving bombed. That would also be a UN human rights violation 
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Feb 25, 2017 16:42
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Pissflaps posted:I don't know what this means. First generation immigrant. Presumably a person born in Ireland.
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Feb 25, 2017 16:42
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jBrereton posted:Quite a lot of care recipients, even if you or I don't care. If they don't want foreign doctors they're more than welcome to sit and wait for a straight white English male to become available. If they die in the meantime that's ok.
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Feb 25, 2017 16:42
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Spangly A posted:A fair response would be a fair trial. Get bombed. a fair trial by fire 
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Feb 25, 2017 16:42
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Namtab posted:I would argue that the subsidies to medical training are good, because we need more staff. conversely, it's not more staff that you're getting for that subsidies if they immediately disappear to Sydney
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Feb 25, 2017 16:43
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spectralent posted:People who're being saved from crippling illness but aren't happy about it because their doctor isn't sufficiently porcelain-toned can shut the gently caress up and live with it, living they are allowed to do because highly qualified arabs, asians, and africans have chosen to dedicate their lives to preserving the lives of others and deserve some loving gratitude for.
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Feb 25, 2017 16:43
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jBrereton posted:
The MIs are famous for not being able to ever catch or prevent terrorism. I'm sure they've managed to round up some shooters recently, this certainly holds true for anything pre* secrets act. People caught by mi5 for terrorism: people travelling for weddings, students (that one was great) *pre and post are different jBrereton posted:I don't think anyone in this thread is going to disagree with that, but FOREIGN AGENCY DOCTORS WHO SPEAK WITH A REGIONAL ACCENT THAT ISN'T LIKE YOURS AT A TIME IN YOUR LIFE WHEN YOU CAN BARELY HEAR A FUCKIN THING is something The Olds especially worry about. They vote tory though, they're not a concern for Labour. And Labour should sure as gently caress not indulge their madness. You are entitled to what was, pre tory, the best healthcare system in the world on several metrics. You are not entitled to having your racist anxieties assuaged, because doing so damages that system. Spangly A fucked around with this message at 16:46 on Feb 25, 2017 |
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Feb 25, 2017 16:43
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in 2020 the tories will paint corbyn as being a terrorist sympathiser who is weak on defence, and hell, it will work like a charm
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Feb 25, 2017 16:46
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the hottest of hot takes: the Good Friday Agreement was probably a good thing
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Feb 25, 2017 16:46
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ronya posted:conversely, it's not more staff that you're getting for that subsidies if they immediately disappear to Sydney Perhaps then we need to look at conditions in the nhs, not just pay so that doctors would want to work here without a slog through beuracracy, poo poo hours etc
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Feb 25, 2017 16:46
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Comrade Cheggorsky posted:in 2020 the tories will paint corbyn as being a terrorist sympathiser who is weak on defence, and hell, it will work like a charm They won't be wrong either.
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Feb 25, 2017 16:47
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Spangly A posted:They vote tory though, they're not a concern for Labour. Like remember that old chick Gordon Brown called a bigot? Labour voter all her life apparently. Probably cared about Foreign Doctors. But the "gently caress you and die" approach ignores that training more British doctors is generally a good idea and a good pivot away from the racist angle.
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Feb 25, 2017 16:47
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Namtab posted:Perhaps then we need to look at conditions in the nhs, not just pay so that doctors would want to work here without a slog through beuracracy, poo poo hours etc but the highly qualified Eastern Europeans, Arabs, Asians, and Africans seem content
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Feb 25, 2017 16:48
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I'm not a doctor so I can't comment on why doctors aren't staying outside of vague knowledge, hopefully one of the thread doctors can elaborate
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Feb 25, 2017 16:48
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Spangly A posted:You are entitled to what was, pre tory, the best healthcare system in the world on several metrics. You mean...under the hated Tony Blair??
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Feb 25, 2017 16:48
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ronya posted:but the highly qualified Eastern Europeans, Arabs, Asians, and Africans seem content Because we can still give them better pay and conditions than they'd get at home, probably
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Feb 25, 2017 16:50
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Comrade Cheggorsky posted:in 2020 the tories will paint corbyn as being a terrorist sympathiser who is weak on defence, and hell, it will work like a charm At this rate, they don't need to.
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Feb 25, 2017 16:51
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jBrereton posted:I would not be so sure of that. She was a bigot though. This is how social policing works. The problem has been too little, not too much. The "anti-pc" crowd should have been checked a long time ago and surprise, now we're rampant nationalists. Also I think she was lying, there was a followup. jBrereton posted:ignores that training more British doctors is generally a good idea and a good pivot away from the racist angle. The BMA have very good reasons to protect their interests as a union. This is not the same thing a a government attempting to exert external controls beyond their borders. I am cautiously in favour of more British doctors but the immediate concern should be for the BMA and their ability to repel outrageous demands from a government setting them up to be destroyed. The crisis in the NHS runs way deeper than Drs though, I'm honestly not sure how all the nurses aren't dead yet. The depression ratings are through the loving roof and, as we should remember, Hunt literally banned the surveys on this from mentioning government failings. The longer term problem can only be fixed by wrestling the power to break the system away from politicians and ensuring that all medical unions, not just doctors, are given fair pay and workable conditions. This is something all conservatives are fundamentally against.
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Feb 25, 2017 16:52
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