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axeil posted:Pretty much this. I'd rather it was Ellison but I trust Perez because he cleaned up the civil rights group at Justice and was an excellent Secretary of Labor. poo poo, I forgot about the Justice part. Yeah, the Obama DOJ did a ton of good civil rights work. Including, proximately, voting rights!
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Feb 25, 2017 22:25
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Condiv posted:no, they'll vanish into illegality after the repubs change the constitution. they'll be replaced with one-party rule by the republicans because they were idiots and threw away a good deal of support to suck off bankers some more. hope that makes things clearer. See, this is exactly what I've been trying to suggest obliquely: that you now apparently believe that local involvement is useless, when it actually only proves that local involvement takes more than three months to work. If you, and by this I mean all of the people getting involved in local parties since November, continue at what is already a staggering pace, the DNC can be remade by 2018 and certainly by 2020. If that pace stops or slows, it is not because of some dolschtoss by the DNC, it will be because you gave up.
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Feb 25, 2017 22:25
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2017 is loving weird.
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Feb 25, 2017 22:25
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If this turns a bunch of people into leftwing activists, that's a good thing. By all means the movement is strengthened when the Party has allies on the Left able to push it leftward in an organized fashion. The people threatening to do nothing at all, it isn't a threat. It is an excuse for their existing plan of inaction.
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Feb 25, 2017 22:25
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YodaTFK posted:You're literally mad that a good canidate beat another good candidate. Tell me about how I should be purged for supporting progressive policy. Go on, do it. Also this. The reactions itt are astoundingly childish. It's like complaining you got a blue Lexus instead of the green one you wanted for your 16th birthday. Perez is so left wing the GOP Senate delegation staged the biggest ever attempt to block a Cabinet appointee until what just happened with DeVos. Calm the gently caress down people.
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Feb 25, 2017 22:26
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:There is no point in a primary system that does not reflect the national election map. So are you gonna toxx?
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Feb 25, 2017 22:26
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YodaTFK posted:You're literally mad that a good canidate beat another good candidate. Tell me about how I should be purged for supporting progressive policy. Go on, do it. it was your attitude and reasoning that made you braindead.
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Feb 25, 2017 22:26
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ImpAtom posted:That's you, actually. You're the one enabling a fascist by refusing to compromise at all and stomping home with your ball. You are perfectly to blame for this and you can't escape that by going "W-well, I didn't vote for anyone!" Says the wing of the party who went to campaign in the midwest on “if you don’t vote for Hillary you are literally a racist sexist bigot”
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Feb 25, 2017 22:27
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Perez isnt a lexus he's barely a bicycle
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Feb 25, 2017 22:27
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Condiv posted:we can't mobilize them because we refuse to play to their issues unless they are rich. and so our base will continue to shrink, more voters won't vote for us, and we'll keep losing nationwide. Yep and that's why those in the rust belt states defected to Trump.
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Feb 25, 2017 22:27
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GreyjoyBastard posted:poo poo, I forgot about the Justice part. Yeah, the Obama DOJ did a ton of good civil rights work. Including, proximately, voting rights! More specifically, Perez was the Assistant AG for the Civil Rights division, so that good work was something he had a huge hand in.
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Feb 25, 2017 22:27
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You didn't get your way and you won't totally get your way in the future. Maybe it's time to start putting some stock into cooperation and pragmatism for a change. Or maybe just post about how you're a true progressive and bore us all some more
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Feb 25, 2017 22:28
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Perez is not my super-ideal candidate and I would have preferred Ellison won but the difference between the two is not actually anywhere as significant as people make it out to be. If you genuinely think that under Perez the Democrats are literally going to do nothing (including nothing they promised) and ignore all issues and do nothing but masturbate to corporates then I'm not really clear why you think Ellision (seemingly with Perez as deputy chair if reports are correct) would have been a massive sweeping change and everything would have been leftist utopia from here on out.
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Feb 25, 2017 22:28
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You don’t compromise with failed ideologies The Democrats are both morally and ideologically bankrupt and are lost on what to do about Trump
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Feb 25, 2017 22:28
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Confounding Factor posted:We'll see what happens with Perez, not going to write him off eventhough nothing I've read about him is encouraging. Just seems like another bullshit corporate Democrat, but I could be wrong. I hope I'm wrong. What the gently caress have you been reading? Maybe you missed his fight for wages for home care workers, or the (sadly struck down) change in overtime rules, or any of his other awesome progressive works?
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Feb 25, 2017 22:29
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Fraction Jackson posted:More specifically, Perez was the Assistant AG for the Civil Rights division, so that good work was something he had a huge hand in. Exactly.  I'm optimistic that he and Ellison can get the party on the right track. Maybe his civil rights work will even help figure out how to work against voter suppression on a party level.
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Feb 25, 2017 22:29
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So is thiz now officially the democratic party autopsy thread or is someone gonna make that separately
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Feb 25, 2017 22:29
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ImpAtom posted:... So, uh, your argument here is "they didn't do what I wanted and so I am perfectly okay with everything becoming terrible forever and will absolutely take no action whatsoever to try to prevent it because it isn't the ideal situation for me." they haven't done anything we wanted for a long time. Quorum posted:See, this is exactly what I've been trying to suggest obliquely: that you now apparently believe that local involvement is useless, when it actually only proves that local involvement takes more than three months to work. If you, and by this I mean all of the people getting involved in local parties since November, continue at what is already a staggering pace, the DNC can be remade by 2018 and certainly by 2020. If that pace stops or slows, it is not because of some dolschtoss by the DNC, it will be because you gave up. nah it won't. the dems have made it quite obvious they will fight to the death on every chance to be remade. imo, it's a pointless fight that we won't win by 2018.
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Feb 25, 2017 22:29
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Confounding Factor posted:Yep and that's why those in the rust belt states defected to Trump. nah, it was because hillary was too "pluralistic" if only she'd been a little more racist her Give Scholarships To Rich Kids platform would have borne fruit
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Feb 25, 2017 22:29
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ImpAtom posted:Perez is not my super-ideal candidate and I would have preferred Ellison won but the difference between the two is not actually anywhere as significant as people make it out to be. If you genuinely think that under Perez the Democrats are literally going to do nothing (including nothing they promised) and ignore all issues and do nothing but masturbate to corporates then I'm not really clear why you think Ellision (seemingly with Perez as deputy chair if reports are correct) would have been a massive sweeping change and everything would have been leftist utopia from here on out. Literally c/p’d garbage from the 2016 primary If you didn’t win doing this last time, you aren’t going to this time
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Feb 25, 2017 22:30
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XyrlocShammypants posted:You didn't get your way and you won't totally get your way in the future. Maybe it's time to start putting some stock into cooperation and pragmatism for a change. Or maybe just post about how you're a true progressive and bore us all some more nothing more pragmatic than losing more than a thousand seats and every level of the federal government to the republican party over the course of eight years
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Feb 25, 2017 22:30
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ImpAtom posted:Perez is not my super-ideal candidate and I would have preferred Ellison won but the difference between the two is not actually anywhere as significant as people make it out to be. If you genuinely think that under Perez the Democrats are literally going to do nothing (including nothing they promised) and ignore all issues and do nothing but masturbate to corporates then I'm not really clear why you think Ellision (seemingly with Perez as deputy chair if reports are correct) would have been a massive sweeping change and everything would have been leftist utopia from here on out. the difference between the two is one is a sockpuppet for the establishment and the other isn't. unfortunately the sock puppet is in charge and going to make sure that we can't fix any of our problems (such as overreliance on corporate donors, etc.)
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Feb 25, 2017 22:31
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Aww Tom's wearing a Keith button and Keith's wearing a Tom button.
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Feb 25, 2017 22:31
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:Says the wing of the party who went to campaign in the midwest on “if you don’t vote for Hillary you are literally a racist sexist bigot” Okay. Why do you think Ellison (with Perez helping him) would have completely changed everything and solved all problems and fixed everything forever but Perez (with Ellison helping him) is going to do nothing and destroy everyone. Like unless you think Ellison is going to literally start beheading people who are part o the DNC I'm not clear what you think the gigantic gulf in quality would be. Condiv posted:the difference between the two is one is a sockpuppet for the establishment and the other isn't. unfortunately the sock puppet is in charge and going to make sure that we can't fix any of our problems (such as overreliance on corporate donors, etc.) Okay. So, do you actually know anything about Ellison beyond who endorsed him?
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Feb 25, 2017 22:31
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:You don’t compromise with failed ideologies How would have the Democratic establishment supporting Ellison change that?
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Feb 25, 2017 22:31
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Condiv posted:nah it won't. the dems have made it quite obvious they will fight to the death on every chance to be remade. imo, it's a pointless fight that we won't win by 2018. Really? Because you haven't won conclusively and destroyed all of your foes in THREE MONTHS it's forever pointless? Reminder that being involved in your local party is how you alter the makeup of the DNC, it's not some nebulous body of party insiders who sit around smoking cigars made of money (or, rather, if it is, it's because that's who's been involved in local party politics up until now). They're elected up through the levels of party committees, and dropping out of involvement with the local ones is exactly 100% how you ensure that what you predict is correct.
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Feb 25, 2017 22:31
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So how is this neoliberal dipshit going to get younger people who despise what Hillary did to run for office, huh? The serving Democrats are literally dying out while being significantly older than members of the GOP wing.
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Feb 25, 2017 22:32
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XyrlocShammypants posted:You didn't get your way and you won't totally get your way in the future. Maybe it's time to start putting some stock into cooperation and pragmatism for a change. Or maybe just post about how you're a true progressive and bore us all some more I was pragmatic during the '16 elections in my support for HRC (I wanted Bernie but that didn't happen). I was OK with incrementalism when you consider the opposition (Trump). But now after this loss, and with how radical the Republicans are, we gotta pull more to the left now. Centrism isn't going to cut it in 4 years. We need bold ideas, we need a vision for America that isn't simply just "anti-Trump". That's what is so worrisome right now with the Democrats, they are playing this anti-Trump card hard instead of having ideas like Bernie did. poo poo I don't even care if it's Bernie running in 2020, I would like a candidate that will run that isn't going to bullshit voters into "check out my website" as your campaign promise.
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Feb 25, 2017 22:32
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Condiv posted:the difference between the two is one is a sockpuppet for the establishment and the other isn't. unfortunately the sock puppet is in charge and going to make sure that we can't fix any of our problems (such as overreliance on corporate donors, etc.) Perez wasn't a sockpuppet when he was LaborSec and Barack Obama, Neoliberal Shill could literally fire his rear end.
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Feb 25, 2017 22:33
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RembrandtQEinstein posted:Umm, I live in Keith's district and can say he's really loving good at turning out the vote and bringing in people who would normally vote R. Kinda what we need as the head of the DNC right now, but ~hey whatever~ I live in Emmers district and work in Keith's. I have my doubts that Ellisons personal appeal would translate to much of anything in the DNC chair, but he does have some good cross party appeal. I'm intrested to see what kind of strategy gets outlined for 2018. Hopefully he doesn't resign from the house to be deputy chair.
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Feb 25, 2017 22:33
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Thankfully the people threatening to give up and never support the democrats again because they didn't get what they wanted don't have a presidential election to gently caress up in four months this time.
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Feb 25, 2017 22:33
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FWIW, had Trump not won and/or had the progressive movement not been so active, it's likely Perez would've been prevented from running because most of the establishment Dems believe he is way too far to the left on a lot of economic issues
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Feb 25, 2017 22:33
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YodaTFK posted:I live in Emmers district and work in Keith's. I have my doubts that Ellisons personal appeal would translate to much of anything in the DNC chair, but he does have some good cross party appeal. I'm intrested to see what kind of strategy gets outlined for 2018. Hopefully he doesn't resign from the house to be deputy chair. On the other hand, let’s elect a guy who is unfit for the job and say he’s exactly the same because of some emails
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Feb 25, 2017 22:33
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Quorum posted:Really? Because you haven't won conclusively and destroyed all of your foes in THREE MONTHS it's forever pointless? Reminder that being involved in your local party is how you alter the makeup of the DNC, it's not some nebulous body of party insiders who sit around smoking cigars made of money. They're elected up through the levels of party committees, and dropping out of involvement with the local ones is exactly 100% how you ensure that what you predict is correct. no, because waging a civil war is probably going to take longer than till 2018. and by 2018 we'll be written out of existence by republicans.
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Feb 25, 2017 22:34
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What can young white socialists do to get power away from the older, corrupt, and black establishment in the Democratic Party? Is there anything there worth saving or should they be looking into forming an alternative socialist party? And it can't be a party that just competes for a mayoral election here and there in Vermont. It needs to be a national socialist party that can actually challenge the establishment enough to get them to listen.
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Feb 25, 2017 22:34
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:So how is this neoliberal dipshit going to get younger people who despise what Hillary did to run for office, huh? Do kids like sucking wall street dick and bending over for fascists? Im sure they do, so perez will be a huge hit with the younger crowd
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Feb 25, 2017 22:34
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GreyjoyBastard posted:Perez wasn't a sockpuppet when he was LaborSec and Barack Obama, Neoliberal Shill could literally fire his rear end. yes he was. why was he giving banks legal blowjobs instead of holding them to account for their crimes if he wasn't a sockpuppet back then.
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Feb 25, 2017 22:34
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:On the other hand, let’s elect a guy who is unfit for the job and say he’s exactly the same because of some emails On the other hand I remember the disgusting transphobic poo poo you were posting on election night you fucker.
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Feb 25, 2017 22:35
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:So how is this neoliberal dipshit going to get younger people who despise what Hillary did to run for office, huh? How was Keith Ellison gonna do it and how is that different from what Perez is going for do?
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Feb 25, 2017 22:35
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Epic High Five posted:FWIW, had Trump not won and/or had the progressive movement not been so active, it's likely Perez would've been prevented from running because most of the establishment Dems believe he is way too far to the left on a lot of economic issues
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Feb 25, 2017 22:35
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