|
What the hell position do people think Perez is going to adopt that will drive voters away forever that Ellison wouldn't have?
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 23:04
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 11:36 |
|
|
Condiv posted:i am. I've already got some nibbles on starting an org. So you are going to join Team Stay-Home-For-Trump in 2018, got it. Dead Cosmonaut posted:They don’t necessarily need money to be that successful. The recent elections in Kansas proved it. You just have to adopt positions people like. I never said anything about money. I'm talking about candidates. If you think the Democrats can't recruit enough good talent, where do you live that socialists are? Like outside of NYC does any community have full Socialist slates on the ballot?
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 23:04
|
|
|
*more peopleCondiv posted:i am. I've already got some nibbles on starting an org. If you don't consider yourself a democrat anymore than don't come to Democratic Party threads pretending to be the prototypical Democratic offended the party's actions. You're a fraud
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 23:04
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/835610917568200705
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 23:04
|
|
|
Condiv posted:no, they have a backbone when it comes to the left. clintonites can only be relied upon to triangulate towards fascism Incorrect, or else they'd have put up someone significantly more rightward than Perez. Team We Must Keep The Superpredators Down, But Vote Against Trump Cuz He's Racist, We Lost Because We're Too Pluralistic have no political ideals or goals to speak of beyond trying to preserve their own power, and this can be used to our advantage in the same way Republicans rode it to absolute dominance over the united states' government on both state and federal levels. JeffersonClay, a man whose hatred of the left is matched possibly only by Jeff Sessions, is currently cheering the ascension of Tom Perez, a guy whose skin color, union ties, and stance on regulation (i.e. it should exist) would have left him deeply uncomfortable if the dice had rolled even slightly differently. It is not difficult to play these people. They do not care about policy, they do not care about outcomes, they care about feeling like they are in charge. This is not difficult to make use of.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 23:05
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 23:05
|
|
|
And if Ellison had won, Trump would have tweeted he was resigning!! drat you Dems!
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 23:07
|
|
|
axeil posted:Last post on this matter. If you all are really and truly upset and not just arguing on the Internet for fun then go get involved with your local party. Even in the deep blue stronghold that is NOVA the local party had plenty of things that need done and seats that need filled. If you want to change the party, then do what Bernie encouraged his supporters to do at the end of his campaign and get involved. problem #1, my local party is skeletal, and the dnc doesn't give a poo poo. problem #2, i'm not local to my local party, so my ability to contribute is limited, and last time I asked and begged they told me to come back in 2017 when they're getting ready for 2018 elections. problem #3, my local party is already pretty well aligned with me (which is loving sad considering the state is blood red). you centrists are loving everything up for us.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 23:07
|
|
|
Trabisnikof posted:So you are going to join Team Stay-Home-For-Trump in 2018, got it. I’m going to resist at a local level and stick to that. Even if Trump stays in power, it means that people like you are made politically irrelevant. Trabisnikof posted:I never said anything about money. I'm talking about candidates. The people who stayed and didn’t vote in November home because both candidates were loving awful? Hillary didn’t even bother showing up in states she needed to win. Both parties at the moment have a serious problem when it comes to representing the people who elect them, and that turns of voters and thus people who may hold interest in running for office.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 23:08
|
|
|
imho the best thing to ensure Perez is given a fair shake that the Dems could do is have like Manchin and the other DINOs come out hard against him
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 23:08
|
|
|
Ze Pollack posted:Incorrect, or else they'd have put up someone significantly more rightward than Perez. Team We Must Keep The Superpredators Down, But Vote Against Trump Cuz He's Racist, We Lost Because We're Too Pluralistic have no political ideals or goals to speak of beyond trying to preserve their own power, and this can be used to our advantage in the same way Republicans rode it to absolute dominance over the united states' government on both state and federal levels. Most of the Clinton supporters, myself included, wanted Ellison to win. You're the one who only cares about "your guy" getting to be in charge you unbelievable idiot.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 23:08
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:How is Ellison the Sanders wing of the party besides Sanders endorsing him? It's about perception. I agree they aren't that different on substance. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 23:09
|
|
|
Ze Pollack posted:Incorrect, or else they'd have put up someone significantly more rightward than Perez. Team We Must Keep The Superpredators Down, But Vote Against Trump Cuz He's Racist, We Lost Because We're Too Pluralistic have no political ideals or goals to speak of beyond trying to preserve their own power, and this can be used to our advantage in the same way Republicans rode it to absolute dominance over the united states' government on both state and federal levels. Thank you, yes. This is really well-put. They are also often cowards, and are terrified of losing. So...like you said, the left needs to use that to their advantage. I think it was a symbolic mistake for the DNC to pick Perez over Ellison, but it's one that most left-Dems will let go of before long. Plus it's good for Ellison; less chance that Sanderistas will be disillusioned with him anytime soon. Majorian fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Feb 25, 2017 |
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 23:10
|
|
|
Ze Pollack posted:Incorrect, or else they'd have put up someone significantly more rightward than Perez. Team We Must Keep The Superpredators Down, But Vote Against Trump Cuz He's Racist, We Lost Because We're Too Pluralistic have no political ideals or goals to speak of beyond trying to preserve their own power, and this can be used to our advantage in the same way Republicans rode it to absolute dominance over the united states' government on both state and federal levels. he's happy with perez cause he's the centrist pick. perez will not be prgoressive. Trabisnikof posted:So you are going to join Team Stay-Home-For-Trump in 2018, got it. if there are no worthwhile local candidates, sure. otherwise, i'll vote for who i think aligns with me, and i won't vote for dems who don't align with me. hth XyrlocShammypants posted:If you don't consider yourself a democrat anymore than don't come to Democratic Party threads pretending to be the prototypical Democratic offended the party's actions. You're a fraud no
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 23:10
|
|
axeil posted:No. They. Aren't. First off, thanks for telling me what I believe. Secondly, thanks for brushing the people who can help you unfuck your party in elections off because you can't be assed see anything from their perspective for even a hot loving second. This will surely be a winning strategy. You want to stay the course, but how has staying your course gone over the past decade or so? Massive losses in local elections and losing the presidency to an orange manbaby should be giant loving warning signs to you that what you're doing isn't working, but please, keep calling everyone who wants to change the course children.
|
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 23:10
|
|
|
Ogmius815 posted:Most of the Clinton supporters, myself included, wanted Ellison to win. You're the one who only cares about "your guy" getting to be in charge you unbelievable idiot. As counterarguments to "clinton supporters are cowards who can be browbeaten into following us" go, this lacks a certain something
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 23:11
|
|
|
 gg centrists
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 23:12
|
|
|
Ogmius815 posted:Most of the Clinton supporters, myself included, wanted Ellison to win. You're the one who only cares about "your guy" getting to be in charge you unbelievable idiot. Was there any polling done to show this? Because if most Clinton supporters actually wanted Ellison then the party is exactly as hosed as I think it is.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 23:12
|
|
|
Dead Cosmonaut posted:I’m going to resist at a local level and stick to that. Even if Trump stays in power, it means that people like you are made politically irrelevant. But does resisting mean staying home and refusing to oppose Republicans? Your smugness about making "people like you" politically irrelevant is both sadly inaccurate from your perspective (those people you despise have political power from elsewhere) and also equally applicable to you (Trump makes you just as irrelevant.) quote:The people who stayed and didn’t vote in November home because both candidates were loving awful? Hillary didn’t even bother showing up in states she needed to win. So how do you think you improve your representation by boycotting what few forms of political control you do have?
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 23:12
|
|
|
LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:First off, thanks for telling me what I believe. He's a wallstreet parasite who went crying to his shrink after election night, what more do you expect? These people can't be reasoned with and they're not here to help you. They're just as much of an obstacle as any Republican or conservative.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 23:12
|
|
|
LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:First off, thanks for telling me what I believe. There was a time not long ago when dems held a boatload of power. Things change and your ilk getting 100% their way or else isn't necessary to do it
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 23:13
|
|
|
Epic High Five posted:imho the best thing to ensure Perez is given a fair shake that the Dems could do is have like Manchin and the other DINOs come out hard against him Why would Manchin care which progressive is handling the donor money? He doesn't need it, and he already knows neither Perez nor Ellison have any intention of cutting off the cash flow to centrists.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 23:13
|
|
|
Ze Pollack posted:As counterarguments to "clinton supporters are cowards who can be browbeaten into following us" go, this lacks a certain something yeah i'm glad centrists came to my aid to tell you how they will not compromise with the left. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 23:13
|
|
|
Condiv posted:if there are no worthwhile local candidates, sure. otherwise, i'll vote for who i think aligns with me, and i won't vote for dems who don't align with me. hth So basically you're going to vote like a normal American voter? How were you voting differently before?
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 23:14
|
|
|
No one word finisher sentence, definitely written by an aide.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 23:14
|
|
XyrlocShammypants posted:There was a time not long ago when dems held a boatload of power. Things change and your ilk getting 100% their way or else isn't necessary to do it B-b-b-but we gave them a platform and the deputy chair, what else could they possibly want, other than for us to step down because we've demonstrated over the past decade that we're incapable of winning elections anymore and it's time for someone else to at least try, but who could possibly want that, right?
|
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 23:14
|
|
|
I guarantee you, he had a similar tweet cued up for Ellison, Buttigieg, and the rest.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 23:14
|
|
|
Trabisnikof posted:So basically you're going to vote like a normal American voter? How were you voting differently before? pure dem, like a loyal dem trooper. got yelled at for wanting to vote like a normal american voter in 2016
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 23:15
|
|
|
Majorian posted:I guarantee you, he had a similar tweet cued up for Ellison, Buttigieg, and the rest. he'd have been wrong with the others
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 23:16
|
|
|
Ze Pollack posted:\ The DNC election broke your brain, I thought Hillary should have picked Perez over Kaine.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 23:17
|
|
|
Trabisnikof posted:But does resisting mean staying home and refusing to oppose Republicans? People are not going to vote for another cardboard candidate like Hillary over Trump. That is a fact you absolutely cannot escape. Trabisnikof posted:But does resisting mean staying home and refusing to oppose Republicans? I think that’s a question you should be asking yourself every night before you go to bed because 2018 isn’t that far away and you’ve done nothing to win over the left except go “  berniebros caused Hillary to lose because they ruined her reputation "
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 23:17
|
|
|
Majorian posted:Thank you, yes. This is really well-put. They are also often cowards, and are terrified of losing. So...like you said, the left needs to use that to their advantage. They are cowards but they aren't scared of losing- they're scared of the left. If they were scared of losing they wouldn't be so lazy at campaigning.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 23:18
|
|
|
Condiv posted:yeah i'm glad centrists came to my aid to tell you how they will not compromise with the left. did you miss the part where he was saying he wanted Ellison to win just to keep us happy this is behavior to be rewarded, ideally by giving them a heartwarming knick-knack with "Compromising Your Values Is Good In Your Case And Your Case Alone" written on it somewhere.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 23:18
|
|
|
Condiv posted:problem #1, my local party is skeletal, and the dnc doesn't give a poo poo. If your local party is aligned well with your views, if you join it should be easy to get someone who represents your views in positions that determine which candidate gets party backing, if it's skeletal right now then helping to flesh out the party will make your opinion more valuable to other members of the party and you will help create a lefter democratic party Taking over existing power structures and bending them to your wishes is always easier than building your own from scratch, so you should always try to do that first if you can
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 23:19
|
|
|
axeil posted:No. They. Aren't. You know what would please me? The Dems winning and kicking the Republicans out of power on all levels. The Clintonista strategy has not succeeded in this regard, and it's not just due to a cyclical, anti-incumbency trend. Condiv posted:he'd have been wrong with the others I doubt he would have been any more wrong with them. Perez can't do much to move the Dems rightward/thwart progressives in the DNC chairmanship, given that it doesn't set the party platform, nominate candidates, or really do anything except raise funds.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 23:19
|
|
|
The Kingfish posted:They are cowards but they aren't scared of losing- they're scared of the left. If they were scared of losing they wouldn't be so poo poo at campaigning. The only thing about the left that scares me is the possibility they'll cut off their nose to spite their face again.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 23:20
|
|
|
JeffersonClay posted:The DNC election broke your brain, I thought Hillary should have picked Perez over Kaine. *in dnc thread angry voice* yeah because you're so centrist!!!!
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 23:21
|
|
|
The Kingfish posted:They are cowards but they aren't scared of losing- Oh bullshit. Every single realistic profile of both of Hillary Clinton's losing campaigns has characterized her and her circle as insanely afraid of losing, to her detriment. The same is true of the entire centrist wing of the party, which is why they reflexively tack to the right on any occasion. quote:they're scared of the left. If they were scared of losing they wouldn't be so lazy at campaigning. Laziness wasn't the problem with the Clinton campaign. They burned a shitton of calories every step of the way - just in the entirely wrong direction.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 23:21
|
|
|
Chelb posted:*in dnc thread angry voice* yeah because you're so centrist!!!! You sold your birthright for a bowl of porridge!!!! - a lunatic
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 23:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 11:36 |
|
|
Chelb posted:*in dnc thread angry voice* yeah because you're so centrist!!!! You don't think JeffersonClay is painfully, absurdly, self-defeatingly centrist.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 23:22
|
|