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El Estrago Bonito posted:This is a few pages old, but you should check out States of Emergency, I had to read it for a class in my degree when we were covering terrorism and it's a good run down of the whole years of lead thing. Ordered it, thank you
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Feb 26, 2017 08:44
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El Estrago Bonito posted:Ugh, I hate this "fact" because it's insanely centric to western Europe. The Ulfbehrt and most high quality swords forged in Pagan Scandinavia and many in modern Germany and France (what was at the time the center of European arms production) were forged with high strength carbon steel, but it wasn't some secret knowledge. The papal blockade against the pagan controlled lands lead to them having to source steel from far away sources due to the fairly poor state of Scandinavian iron production in the Viking Age, this meant they were primarily getting it from two places: Pagan Rus (modern Ukraine) and Al Andalus/North Africa (Muslim Spain and Libya) and then in later years once things started getting rougher with the Muslims they would make it as far as what was then called the Roman Empire but what we call Byzantium. And in these places they discovered steel that was not domestic to Europe and was instead being produced in what is now Syria and India, they bought it and then brought it home to make swords with it. Eventually this steel made it into France and Germany where the Ulfbehrts were probably made because even a economic blockade cant stop the demand for amazing quality steel. It would get a jump start with the migrations triggered by the Mongol conquests of the middle East and would ultimately need infrastructure just not there in Europe until the beginning of the middle class, the socialization of learning through universities (very often Catholic universities), and the cheapening of scribing from the printing press. And then the Catholics mostly got dogmatic in response to that infrastructure getting into place ie. the Inquisition and Jesuits.
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Feb 26, 2017 14:51
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El Estrago Bonito posted:The same goes with stuff like the scientific method and other things that were kicking around the Islamic world as early as the 900s but didn't make it over into Europe for hundreds of years because why would you ever translate scientific works done by those dumb desert dwelling Satan worshipers, you might catch the Islam from them if you do! That's just wrong at least for the Middle Ages. There was a lot of translations and interest in knowledge from the islamic world. Islamic scholars were known and respected for their knowledge in Alchemie, Math, Astrology, Medicine and pretty much anything else we would call science nowadays. The different crusades didn't hurt that, probably even helped. You can't fight centuries against sombody without some cultural exchange happening.
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Feb 26, 2017 15:09
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There was a Catholic scholar in the Middle Ages (can't remember the name now, sry) who visited some part of Spain that had recently been annexed by the Christians, and after looking at some of the libraries there he wrote a letter to a friend in I think Paris which basically read “this poo poo is amazing, move your rear end to here at once bro“. Especially in medieval Spain there was quite a number of scholars who had learned Arabic in order to translate all this cool stuff into Latin
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Feb 26, 2017 15:40
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I guess that one Christophobic and Eurocentric meme is still in effect in people's minds. You know the one.
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Feb 26, 2017 15:50
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System Metternich posted:There was a Catholic scholar in the Middle Ages (can't remember the name now, sry) who visited some part of Spain that had recently been annexed by the Christians, and after looking at some of the libraries there he wrote a letter to a friend in I think Paris which basically read “this poo poo is amazing, move your rear end to here at once bro“. Especially in medieval Spain there was quite a number of scholars who had learned Arabic in order to translate all this cool stuff into Latin In fact Christian students of Arab scholars were often more receptive and welcoming of their ideas than Arab rulers and societies themselves, as is illustrated by the case of Averroes, rejected by Muslims in Spain for religious reasons, but revered by his latter Christian readers as an authority on Greek philosophy and many other fields. The school you are thinking of is probably the Toledo school of translation, where re-discovered texts were gathered for study and copying in the aftermath of the reconquista. Also let's not forget that much of the Arab and Persian golden age was due to them taking the centres of classical scholarship from their Christian owners. Tasteful Dickpic posted:I guess that one Christophobic and Eurocentric meme is still in effect in people's minds. Which one, I need to uncover lost memes for my people. steinrokkan has a new favorite as of 15:57 on Feb 26, 2017 |
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Feb 26, 2017 15:53
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steinrokkan posted:
Probably the chart that shows "technological progress lost during the Christian dark ages" which vaguely implies if it had not happened wed be in space.
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Feb 26, 2017 16:14
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 The original chart is the part to the right of “Historically Attested Worldwide Flood” Platystemon has a new favorite as of 16:43 on Feb 26, 2017 |
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Feb 26, 2017 16:18
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steinrokkan posted:Also let's not forget that much of the Arab and Persian golden age was due to them taking the centres of classical scholarship from their Christian owners. It was very nice of the Arabs to preserve Greco-Roman civilization after attacking and conquering most of the Greco-Roman Empire in screaming jihad
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Feb 26, 2017 16:41
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Byzantine posted:It was very nice of the Arabs to preserve Greco-Roman civilization after attacking and conquering most of the Greco-Roman Empire in screaming jihad 
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Feb 26, 2017 17:15
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Platystemon posted:
"Finno-Korean Hyper War" "Age of Atlantis" Okay I chuckled pretty hard at the idea of some ancient Finnish and Korean empires meeting let alone fighting each other. That's some good parody of the original. Also if you look carefully, it seems everything between the "hyper war" and "Pre-diluvian Babylon" is a recolored copy+paste of the original.
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Feb 26, 2017 17:16
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Byzantine posted:It was very nice of the Arabs to preserve Greco-Roman civilization after attacking and conquering most of the Greco-Roman Empire in screaming jihad “If those books are in agreement with the Quran, we have no need of them; and if these are opposed to the Quran, destroy them.” Written by a Christian six centuries ex post facto. Alkydere posted:Okay I chuckled pretty hard at the idea of some ancient Finnish and Korean empires meeting But they’re only separated by one country. Platystemon has a new favorite as of 17:24 on Feb 26, 2017 |
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Feb 26, 2017 17:20
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Byzantine posted:It was very nice of the Arabs to preserve Greco-Roman civilization after attacking and conquering most of the Greco-Roman Empire in screaming jihad Are you saying the Arab conquest didn't run over Christian kingdoms, including all the wealthy, educated, culturally important regions? And that they didn't copy and spread the Greek manuscripts found there?
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Feb 26, 2017 17:26
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steinrokkan posted:Are you saying the Arab conquest didn't run over Christian kingdoms, including all the wealthy, educated, culturally important regions? And that they didn't copy and spread the Greek manuscripts found there? That didn't really happen no. Like there are non Greek scientific minds out there. CharlestheHammer has a new favorite as of 19:23 on Feb 26, 2017 |
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Feb 26, 2017 19:06
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CharlestheHammer posted:That didn't really happen no. I didn't say categorically. The fact that Christianity lost so many of its centres of learning, its philosophers and libraries, was a key element in why Christian nations were for the next centuries so behind. The Christian Europe post-Arabic conquest was partially the former periphery, partially still pagan and antagonistic.
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Feb 26, 2017 19:39
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The non-greek scientific minds is one of the important part of muslim supremacy in math and science. The Greeks were brilliant but had a laser focus. Iraq and Persia had the opportunity of being the cultural center-stone of the world due to their place on the silk road which meant it had the benefit of Indian and Chinese math scholars who are usually studying stuff completely different because of the tendency for the Greek (and later Roman) establishment to kibosh some of the stranger lines of inquiry to not undermine the cult status of the greats. Additionally that silk road trade gave an economy that supported the middle class responsible for study.
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Feb 26, 2017 19:48
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A grocery list written by none other than Michelangelo himself. He doodled some drawings of the stuff he needed next to the written items, probably because his servants were illiterate.
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Mar 5, 2017 11:38
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Those servants are gonna be out for awhile since the very first thing on the list is infinity. OR! Looks like TMNT was right about the pizza toppings preferred by Michelangelo.
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Mar 5, 2017 14:01
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Solice Kirsk posted:Those servants are gonna be out for awhile since the very first thing on the list is infinity. I grabbed this from some weird Facebook group where people immediately started to look for some hidden occult meanings the NWO doesn't want you to know or w/e because of the “infinity symbol“ which is actually just supposed to be “pani dua“, i.e. two loaves of bread  e: and the infinity symbol was first introduced by John Wallis a good 90 years or so after Michelangelo had died, so there's that. Or maybe that's what *they* want you to think 
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Mar 5, 2017 14:35
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Are those divided between different days? I could see them getting confused as hell if the circles mean something more than "loaf of bread" and they're too illiterate to read the labels next to them.
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Mar 5, 2017 19:51
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Speaking of Michelangelo, there's a theory that he had arthritis: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/sci...raits-show.html
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Mar 5, 2017 20:08
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System Metternich posted:A grocery list written by none other than Michelangelo himself. He doodled some drawings of the stuff he needed next to the written items, probably because his servants were illiterate. Seems like a good idea, except there's no way to tell what's in all those jugs from a drawing.
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Mar 5, 2017 21:19
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Ensign Expendable posted:Seems like a good idea, except there's no way to tell what's in all those jugs from a drawing. Maybe the servant would know to go to the stuff in jugs stores and the shop keeper could then read the list.
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Mar 5, 2017 21:36
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C.M. Kruger posted:IIRC it was more complex than that. The Germans would listen to RAF radio signals to determine when/where bombers were being launched, they would then launch a flight of night fighters (Bf 110 heavy fighters and converted Ju 88 bombers) to attack the airfield as it began recovering the bombers. They'd attack whenever it was most opportune, not necessarily over enemy airfields. It played havoc on allied aircraft because it was always hard to determine friend or foe and on more than one occasion did a tail gunner shoot at a nearby Mosquito or other fighter thinking it was a German night-fighter. Arcsquad12 posted:German Nightfighters also utilized a device called Schräge Musik, a set of autocannons mounted at a 45 degree angle behind the cockpit. The interceptors would sneak up on the British nighttime bombing raids from behind and beneath, and ambush them with these odd angled guns so they could maintain speed and dart in and out of the formations. So did the Japanese!  The Germans set it up so that the system could be fired automatically using photo-cells.Khazar-khum posted:The Nazi jet fighter, the Messerschmidt 262, didn't see active service until 1944. The Heinkel Spatz, the other jet fighter, saw only very limited service at the end of the war. There no such aircraft called the "Heinkel Spatz". In WWII, there are several documented cases of planes being used either to ram the enemy aircraft or use their propeller to cut into an enemy plane. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerial_ramming#World_War_II  quote:One particularly unusual kill was scored by Marine Lieutenant R. R. Klingman of VMF-312 (the "Checkerboards"), over Okinawa. Klingman was in pursuit of a Kawasaki Ki-45 Toryu ("Nick") twin-engine fighter at extremely high altitude when his guns jammed due to the gun lubrication thickening from the extreme cold. He flew up and chopped off the Ki-45's tail with the big propeller of the Corsair. Despite missing five inches (127 mm) off the end of his propeller blades, he managed to land safely after this aerial ramming attack. He was awarded the Navy Cross.[48]
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Mar 5, 2017 21:40
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Jobbo_Fett posted:There no such aircraft called the "Heinkel Spatz". He means the He 162, which was generally called the Salamander but Heinkel's official name for it was the Spatz.
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Mar 5, 2017 21:59
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:He means the He 162, which was generally called the Salamander but Heinkel's official name for it was the Spatz. First time I've ever seen that, good to know, thanks! Edit: Ha! If you search Spatz, you won't find it on Wikipedia. If you search Heinkel Spatz, it just lists stuff which includes the entry on the He-162.
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Mar 5, 2017 22:12
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Ensign Expendable posted:Seems like a good idea, except there's no way to tell what's in all those jugs from a drawing. I suspect they would always contain wine, and the different sizes of the jugs denoted volume rather than kind.
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Mar 5, 2017 22:16
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Atticus_1354 posted:Maybe the ſ ervant would know to go to the ſ tuff in jugs ſ tores and the ſ hop keeper could then read the list. It's harder because the pictures don't always line up with the item in a meaningful way. He asks for lox but that's next to ſ omething that looks like a ſ ausage when the fiſh is way up next to tortellini. Plus he ſ tarts writing backwards and upſ idedown halfway through because he's a dick.
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Mar 5, 2017 22:55
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Being a huge douche was integral to being a renaissance genius.
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Mar 5, 2017 23:00
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chitoryu12 posted:Are those divided between different days? I could see them getting confused as hell if the circles mean something more than "loaf of bread" and they're too illiterate to read the labels next to them. I'm guessing so, since there is this line in the middle of the list, and some things appear double, like the herrings or the bread I found a (modern Italian) transcription and translation online, according to that the list goes like this:
Take note of how he wrote tortegli/tortelli differently depending on what he felt like at the moment, I'm guessing. Good old non-existant early modern spelling standards
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Mar 5, 2017 23:05
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System Metternich posted:I'm guessing so, since there is this line in the middle of the list, and some things appear double, like the herrings or the bread It's so interesting to see the prepared food on there, like the soups. I wonder what would have been in the salad.
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Mar 5, 2017 23:13
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Paper remained pretty expensive until the continuous paper machine entered wide service so I assume if you were using scratch paper for grocery lists, you used that until it didn't have anywhere left to write.
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Mar 5, 2017 23:14
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:It's so interesting to see the prepared food on there, like the soups. I wonder what would have been in the salad. Old timey food is super interesting to me. Check out The Supersizers Go, they go into weird stuff that other era's used to eat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swhEbBDwM0I Be forwarned, the dude chews his food loud and it annoys the hell out of me. Also, they're not that funny most of the time, but when they get drunk it's usually hilarious.
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Mar 5, 2017 23:21
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I want to like Supersizers Go but in a 15 minute video there is like 3 minutes of stuff I care about. Like, work with me here.
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Mar 5, 2017 23:26
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Supersizers go is funny, not because of the personalities but because they pick all the worst eras to sample so they are constantly eating protein muck and drinking booze so they end up constantly hung over and constipated.
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Mar 5, 2017 23:27
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zedprime posted:Supersizers go is funny, not because of the personalities but because they pick all the worst eras to sample so they are constantly eating protein muck and drinking booze so they end up constantly hung over and constipated. If I cared enough about either of the people or if the end point were funny enough, I they could totally make that work. What I'm saying is: someone needs to edit their videos for them. There is a huge market for what they are doing in some Pacific Rim countries.
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Mar 5, 2017 23:29
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System Metternich posted:I'm guessing so, since there is this line in the middle of the list, and some things appear double, like the herrings or the bread It's not insalata, it's salama, and it probably depicts a specific kind of sausage, also known as Salama da sugo, which kinda looks like that weird squiggle to the right.  Also I wonder if the next day he bought eight loaves of bread. steinrokkan has a new favorite as of 23:33 on Mar 5, 2017 |
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Mar 5, 2017 23:31
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steinrokkan posted:It's not insalata, it's salama, and it probably depicts a specific kind of sausage, also known as Salama da sugo, which kinda looks like that weird squiggle to the right. While that would explain the weird and definitely non-salad-like doodle to the right, I still think it's salata - look at the latter portion of the word, it's imo definitely a t (cf. the t in quartuccio) and an a (cf. the latter a in the lower aringa). If we interpret what looks to me like a -ta as an m, then there's no possibility left for the closing -a of "salama" e: also if it was an m it would look very different from the only other m in the text ("minestrone"), though that's admittedly a very small sample size to work with
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Mar 5, 2017 23:44
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Jobbo_Fett posted:
There most certainly was a Heinkel Spatz, as Vincent van Goatse explained better than I did. As for hitting planes with your propeller--as the quote you have makes clear, that was a desperation move, one he was lucky to survive. When you're learning to fly, it's stressed that you don't want to hit another plane midair, with any parts. Ever. Every survival story you hear about a lucky pilot avoids the many more pilots who didn't make it. One of the many reasons Harrison Ford screwed up so badly.
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Mar 6, 2017 08:50
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In the spirit of bipartisanship, I'd like to recuse myself from further Renaissance-era shitposting in this thread.
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Mar 6, 2017 08:56
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