Eastern Europe: Olivier's sphere of influence

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Eastern Europe: Olivier's sphere of influence

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

Libluini posted:

Was Lukashenko replaced recently? I always thought Belarus was basically a one-man dictatorship, or is this sarcasm about his chances in the next election against Luka?

That is entirely sarcasm, the dude on video is literal definition of a political clown. It is so bad, I felt shame watching it despite being absolutely unrelated to the situation.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 17:03

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# ? May 14, 2024 17:10

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

A Pale Horse posted:

The latter. Batka isn't giving up the throne any time soon and if he does it will probably be to the little sociopath he's been raising for the past 14 years (or however old Joffrey is).

Handover process to his son was already literally captured on camera:

# ? Feb 22, 2017 17:16

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Discendo Vox posted:

haha, wow. I thought you were joking, but that's literally what they're doing. BM, do you ever wish the regime was better at its propaganda job? Give you more of a challenge?

The bigger and more complicated the lie, the worst it is for them when we figure it out, because it shows they've tried hard to cover something up. It's like with MH17, they came up with some pretty elaborate lies that just made them look much worse when we caught them. Same with the time the Foreign Ministry plagiarised the MH17 evidence they sent us from LiveJournal, it just makes them look like assholes.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 18:03

HUGE PUBES A PLUS: Apr 30, 2005

Brown Moses posted:

The Russian Foreign Ministry is also doing it's bit to fit fake news

https://twitter.com/RussianEmbassy/status/834368353061990402

Although it does seem it solely consists of taking screenshots of articles, stamping them with "FAKE", and put "This article puts forward information that does not correspond to reality." under it.

https://twitter.com/CivMilAir/status/834371467538227201

LOL at US wasting time looking for a fake nuke detonation.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 18:29

OddObserver: Apr 3, 2009

https://codastory.com/disinformation-crisis/traditional-values/kremlin-nationalists-face-off-over-romanov-romance-mathilda

Something that amuses me where it should probably horrify me:
Russian Orthodox activists trying to get a film censored because it features an affair Nicholas II had....

# ? Feb 22, 2017 19:25

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

cinci zoo sniper posted:

That is entirely sarcasm, the dude on video is literal definition of a political clown. It is so bad, I felt shame watching it despite being absolutely unrelated to the situation.

A Pale Horse posted:

The latter. Batka isn't giving up the throne any time soon and if he does it will probably be to the little sociopath he's been raising for the past 14 years (or however old Joffrey is).

Welp. No hope for Belarus, then.

# ? Feb 22, 2017 19:32

GhostofJohnMuir: Aug 14, 2014; anime is not good

So, there have been a fair amount of civilian airlines shot down by various states or their proxies, but how many other cases have their been where the ones who fired the shot tried to completely deny their role instead of casting it as an unfortunate unavoidable accident or suggesting the other party erred in their flightpath?

# ? Feb 23, 2017 00:54

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

mobby_6kl posted:

Handover process to his son was already literally captured on camera:

That's not a potato

# ? Feb 23, 2017 00:59

Bip Roberts: Mar 29, 2005

HUGE PUBES A PLUS posted:

https://twitter.com/CivMilAir/status/834371467538227201

LOL at US wasting time looking for a fake nuke detonation.

The us is always monitoring for detonations.

# ? Feb 23, 2017 01:04

Charliegrs: Aug 10, 2009

Well according to this article:
https://theaviationist.com/2017/02/22/u-s-wc-135-nuclear-sniffer-airplane-has-left-the-uk-heading-towards-norway-and-the-barents-sea/

There's a higher level than usual of a radioactive element in the atmosphere over Eastern Europe and that might be why the sniffer plane has been flying around more frequently

# ? Feb 23, 2017 11:52

Paladinus: Jan 11, 2014; heyHEYYYY!!!

Charliegrs posted:

Well according to this article:
https://theaviationist.com/2017/02/22/u-s-wc-135-nuclear-sniffer-airplane-has-left-the-uk-heading-towards-norway-and-the-barents-sea/

There's a higher level than usual of a radioactive element in the atmosphere over Eastern Europe and that might be why the sniffer plane has been flying around more frequently

Lol if they just didn't account for Chernobyl.

This could be a plot for a spy movie, actually. Terrorists steal a whole bunch of nukes and hide them in Pripyat.

# ? Feb 23, 2017 12:33

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Paladinus posted:

Lol if they just didn't account for Chernobyl.

This could be a plot for a spy movie, actually. Terrorists steal a whole bunch of nukes and hide them in Pripyat.

Hey, we just put a new sarcophagus up, don't blame us!

http://i.imgur.com/0vBCbZy.mp4

# ? Feb 23, 2017 12:56

Rincewinds: Jul 30, 2014; MEAT IS MEAT

GhostofJohnMuir posted:

So, there have been a fair amount of civilian airlines shot down by various states or their proxies, but how many other cases have their been where the ones who fired the shot tried to completely deny their role instead of casting it as an unfortunate unavoidable accident or suggesting the other party erred in their flightpath?

When Ukraine shot down a Russian passenger plane during joint exercise with Russia, they initially denied that they had done it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flight_1812

# ? Feb 23, 2017 15:15

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

That's because it was actually aliens!

# ? Feb 23, 2017 15:30

chitoryu12: Apr 24, 2014

Another one bites the dust.

Do Russian diplomats die one after the other all the time?

# ? Feb 23, 2017 21:05

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

chitoryu12 posted:

Another one bites the dust.

Do Russian diplomats die one after the other all the time?

Imagine if Clancy was alive right now.

# ? Feb 23, 2017 21:21

Rincewinds: Jul 30, 2014; MEAT IS MEAT

Putin is doing his yearly performance review.

# ? Feb 24, 2017 00:15

HUGE PUBES A PLUS: Apr 30, 2005

His re-election is coming up. Has to show the people he's still in charge.

# ? Feb 24, 2017 04:06

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

chitoryu12 posted:

Another one bites the dust.

Do Russian diplomats die one after the other all the time?

9 January

# ? Feb 24, 2017 12:46

jonnypeh: Nov 5, 2006

Here's a gallery of Estonia's (or rather a certain party's) meager Nuremberg rally: http://www.delfi.ee/news/ev99/fotod...B4c5BCWHla1FC7l

I went to see the army parade during the day. I like the established order and not some firebrands preaching new awakening of the nation. Because that sounds very loving familiar.

Oh yeah, today was 99 years since Estonia declared independence.

# ? Feb 24, 2017 23:21

VoltairePunk: Dec 26, 2012; I have become Umlaut, destroyer of words

Happy belayed birthday Estonia! May the 100th trip around the sun be jolly and joyful.

# ? Feb 25, 2017 05:16

vegetables: Mar 10, 2012

I have a question for the thread: I know Russia dislikes having NATO up close against its borders. What I don't really understand is why they wouldn't also dislike a militarised alliance of Eastern European States, which seems to me the likely alternative. What am I missing?

# ? Feb 26, 2017 14:21

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

vegetables posted:

I have a question for the thread: I know Russia dislikes having NATO up close against its borders. What I don't really understand is why they wouldn't also dislike a militarised alliance of Eastern European States, which seems to me the likely alternative. What am I missing?

Russia would swipe rear end with the combined military of other EE nations.

# ? Feb 26, 2017 14:26

Elukka: Feb 18, 2011; For All Mankind

And NATO has a nuclear deterrent, Eastern European countries on their own would not. Whether you believe the threat 100% or not, "attack Estonia (or whatever) and the world burns" is gonna make anyone think twice.

# ? Feb 26, 2017 14:39

Cugel the Clever: Apr 5, 2009; I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

vegetables posted:

I have a question for the thread: I know Russia dislikes having NATO up close against its borders. What I don't really understand is why they wouldn't also dislike a militarised alliance of Eastern European States, which seems to me the likely alternative. What am I missing?

They know they could divide and conquer a fledgling EE alliance far easier than they could NATO. Without the weight of another super-power involved, each state is understandably more reluctant to fulfill its alliance commitments were Russia to target only a single member of the group. If politicians feel that they have too much to lose by war or might strengthen their domestic positions by aligning with Russia, defections are highly probable.

Of course, Russia's support for anti-EU sentiment throughout western Europe has been wildly more successful than anyone could have expected and the elections in France and Germany are going to be hugely impactful to the future of both Europe and NATO. Exploiting European publics' perceptions that their political elites are out of touch and have no vision but for their own electoral victories is made all too easy when that is actually the case in no few countries. Fran�ois Hollande would commit seppuku if he had a single non-self-interested bone in his body.

# ? Feb 26, 2017 15:42

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

vegetables posted:

I have a question for the thread: I know Russia dislikes having NATO up close against its borders. What I don't really understand is why they wouldn't also dislike a militarised alliance of Eastern European States, which seems to me the likely alternative. What am I missing?

If the alliance is strictly neutral, as in it cannot count on western assistance shall polite green men decide to move the border a bit, then Russia has no problem. If the alliance includes Russia, then it's basically WarPac 2.0 and Russia has even less of a problem.

It's just if the alliance happens to be NATO that they're annoyed, because it makes a PGM initiative something that could quickly escalate to an actual shooting war (if Ukraine had been in NATO, there would be American and European troops dislodging Russia's irregular troops from the Donbass) and with three nuclear powers in NATO it makes it too risky to be worth it.

# ? Feb 26, 2017 15:58

jaete: Jun 21, 2009; Nap Ghost

vegetables posted:

I have a question for the thread: I know Russia dislikes having NATO up close against its borders. What I don't really understand is why they wouldn't also dislike a militarised alliance of Eastern European States, which seems to me the likely alternative. What am I missing?

According to Russian military doctrine, a border is safe when there are Russian soldiers on both sides of it.

This has seriously been the essence of Russian military strategy for centuries: make sure there are "allied" countries between barbarians and the motherland, to slow down the inevitable invasions. Russia will not be satisfied with any situation where it doesn't directly control these in-between countries.

# ? Feb 27, 2017 00:21

Trogdos!: Jul 11, 2009; A DRAGON POKEMAN
well technically a water/flying type

# ? Feb 27, 2017 16:47

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

I 100% support Russian need and entitlement to buffer states. It's essential to their feeling secure. So what they should do is grant independence to some territories and now they have a buffer. Everyone wins!

# ? Feb 27, 2017 16:55

Randarkman: Jul 18, 2011

Russians should either get over their fear of being encircled and invaded or accept that constantly trying to meddle in and destabilize their neighbors, just might lead to said neighbors tryign to band together for defense or seek the protection of other great powers more or less hostile to Russia.

# ? Feb 27, 2017 18:24

Xerxes17: Feb 17, 2011

Randarkman posted:

Russians should either get over their fear of being encircled and invaded or accept that constantly trying to meddle in and destabilize their neighbors, just might lead to said neighbors tryign to band together for defense or seek the protection of other great powers more or less hostile to Russia.

Unfortunately the Russians who make the decisions always seem to live by the adage of "Better to rule in Hell than serve in Heaven".

# ? Feb 27, 2017 18:32

Elukka: Feb 18, 2011; For All Mankind

On one hand I understand why Russia doesn't want a bunch of NATO-aligned countries on their doorstep but on the other the reason NATO and western influence trump Russian influence is because Russia is perceived as a threat. Russian propaganda tries to paint it as some conspiracy to expand NATO but really even if NATO wants to expand towards Russia, Russia is the only reason they're able to do so. Why would any Eastern European country want to join NATO if Russia was not seen as a military threat?

Which makes me wonder if Russia has ever considered being, I dunno, a good, constructive neighbor instead of a military threat?

# ? Feb 27, 2017 18:53

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

Elukka posted:

Which makes me wonder if Russia has ever considered being, I dunno, a good, constructive neighbor instead of a military threat?

It's a mixed bag for some of the CIS states, but no other immediate neighbours, I'd say.

# ? Feb 27, 2017 18:57

ded redd: Aug 1, 2010

Today marks the anniversary of Nemtsov's assassination, and it seems a lot of people aren't willing to let that go under the radar.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/boris-nemtsov-murder-anniversary-russians-march-moscow-vladimir-putin-a7600516.html

quote:

Thousands of Russians marched through Moscow shouting slogans such as �Russia will be free!� and �Putin is war!� to mark two years since opposition leader Boris Nemtsov was gunned down outside the Kremlin.

Mr Nemtsov, formerly Russia�s deputy prime minister, was a fierce critic of President Vladimir Putin. His death on 27 February 2015, in what appeared to be a contract killing, sparked an outpouring of anger and fear from Russia�s beleaguered opposition movement.

The protest in Moscow was the largest opposition gathering since a similar memorial march for Mr Nemtsov last year.

Moscow police said 5,000 people attended the event, however organisers said the figure was more likely to be in the tens of thousands.

�It�s very important that after two years people continue to come out and show their solidarity with the ideas for which Boris Nemtsov fought for and gave his life,� said opposition activist Ilya Yashin, who was Nemtsov�s friend and colleague, Interfax news agency reported.

Participants carried Russian flags, banners of opposition political parties and placards with quotes from Mr Nemtsov including �If there�s Putin, there�s no Russia,� and �Our only chance left is the street�.

Many carried cardboard Russian flags with bullet holes in them.

The event largely occurred without incident, but police made several arrests and opposition leader Mikhail Kasyanov was attacked during the march by an unknown assailant who threw green dye in his face.

�This is the hysteria of the government. They do not know what to do. The government is afraid,� Gennady Gudkov, a former deputy of Russia�s lower house of parliament and an opposition activist, said of the attack on Mr Kasyanov.

After the march, thousands of people went to lay flowers on the site on the central Moscow bridge where Mr Nemtsov was killed by an attacker who shot him several times in the back as he was walking home with his girlfriend.

Similar demonstrations to honour Mr Nemtsov took place in other Russian cities, including St Petersburg and Mr Nemtsov�s hometown of Nizhny Novgorod.

# ? Feb 27, 2017 19:03

HUGE PUBES A PLUS: Apr 30, 2005

Two years since he was murdered. And Putin will easily win re-election.

# ? Feb 27, 2017 19:32

Randarkman: Jul 18, 2011

HUGE PUBES A PLUS posted:

Two years since he was murdered. And Putin will easily win re-election.

Are there really any worthwile opponents that are allowed to run? I mean aren't the next two biggest parties the communists and the liberal democratic party? Which as far as I understand it can basically be summed up as Russian ultra nationalism catering to old people and Russian ultra-super nationalism led by a crazy booze monster.

Also both of those are like pitifully small compared to Putin's party and mostly vote in lockstep with his agenda.

Randarkman fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Feb 27, 2017

# ? Feb 27, 2017 19:42