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I was surprised how much more explicit Mars vs. everyone actual war was going on.
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Feb 26, 2017 15:28
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Just caught up on the season, it's really good poo poo. I don't recall Bobbie being this aggressively hawkish in the books though, so I think that stands out weird so far.
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Feb 26, 2017 15:30
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Demiurge4 posted:Just caught up on the season, it's really good poo poo. Bobbie's back story is made up for the TV series.
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Feb 26, 2017 15:44
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My only demand for the adaptation of book 2 is that it include the second best pair of lines in the series. "What's a whore, daddy?" "A type of frost." No plot issues, but spoiled on the 5% chance they give Avasarala the setup. Who naturally gets the first of the greatest pair of lines in the book series. Number Ten Cocks fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Feb 26, 2017 |
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Feb 26, 2017 16:22
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Haha, nice. What's the greatest?
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Feb 26, 2017 16:49
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"I'm the [job title], not your favorite stripper." Amos spread his hands. "Could be room for both." Number Ten Cocks fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Feb 26, 2017 |
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Feb 26, 2017 16:55
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We hate earth so much we wasted time making earth like kettlebells!
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Feb 27, 2017 03:26
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etalian posted:We hate earth so much we wasted time making earth like kettlebells! Oh I thought they were Blue Mars kettlebells. Either way it's pretty dumb really.
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Feb 27, 2017 03:28
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get it right martian marines should be smug space communists like Lopez(RIP) not a group of whom soldiers would be at place in a airsoft tournament.
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Feb 27, 2017 03:36
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Yeah, this guy is a good Martian. I wonder what caused the change in tone.
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Feb 27, 2017 12:48
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i wonder if the martians who are naval officers operating on their pride of the fleet symbol flagship would be better than a bunch of young kids who seem fresh out of some kind of ground pounding army training ground https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-x1YuvUQFJ0&t=162s
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Feb 27, 2017 13:00
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There is not so much a change in tone, as a change in cast/crew. The Donnager crew was the crew of the flagship of the Martian fleet. Most of the ones we saw are/were officers. The brig guards weren't all that talkative either. Bobbies crew is mostly a bunch of marines/jarheads. While good at their job I wouldn't consider them to be the most educated and sophisticated people. Their ship's captain however was exactly like the ones we know from the Donnager. In fact, Bobbie's crew is going through the exact same phase as the guys from the movie Jarhead. They just want to get in action so badly... A body so pumped up with testosterone (can women have that?) just ready to shoot whoever they're told to shoot.
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Feb 27, 2017 13:04
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Evernoob posted:testosterone (can women have that?) Yes.
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Feb 27, 2017 13:13
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Women generally have much less testosterone than men but that's not universally true.Evernoob posted:There is not so much a change in tone, as a change in cast/crew. I agree I think we're just seeing different services and types of people, not some sort of change in how they're portraying Mars. Also things around the solar system have escalated quite a bit since we saw the Donnager.
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Feb 27, 2017 13:22
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Bobbie in the show is sort of underselling how utterly jacked she is in the books. She's using a 10 year old combat suit when she's introduced because it's the only one that fits her since she's 6'3 and 250+ pounds of muscle.
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Feb 27, 2017 13:28
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Ye well sorry, that's maybe one aspect they had to change a bit. They couldn't find a 6'3 and 250+ pounds of musclular polynesian actress. They had to settle for a little less, and honestly they found a great match. A few months ago the bookreaders in this very thread were literally in love with the casting, and now many people are judging the character on a few introductionary scenes that even predate the source material. What they are doing is instead of suddenly introducing a new character and immediately have a lot of stuff happen to her, they introduce the whole crew (with a slight focus on Bobbie) to give her some background and then only later really make her part of the central story. Books can devote whole chapters on background stories after introducing a new character. This is much harder in TV as the only way to do this properly is flashbacks and origin episodes.
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Feb 27, 2017 13:38
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Going off the preview there will be a whole lot of Bobbie screen time in episode 6. People will make the correct decision and fall in love with her then.
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Feb 27, 2017 13:44
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At no point during the MMC screentime have I thought “this would be a good scene, if not for the acting.  ”I’ll judge Adams when she has some good material to work with.
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Feb 27, 2017 13:46
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Grand Fromage posted:Women generally have much less testosterone than men but that's not universally true. Yeah, I've had family and friends in the military and the range of personality types of huge. Contrast this elite fellow's demeanor and speech while discussing Russia -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkW4eW7TMvM&t=1839s -- against this fellow's demeanor and speech while destructing the porta potty: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVqgZvh3L_M&t=8s
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Feb 27, 2017 14:12
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Were the Donnager crew supposed to be the competent professional ones? The captain was chilling around with a takeaway coffee, the gunner dude informs her "wow this is a bit tricky" and the final lines before they self-destruct were "I didn't think we could lose  "I thought "Mars is mentally and emotionally ill-equipped to fight the war they so desperately want" was sort of the point.
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Feb 27, 2017 14:35
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Well, The Donnager crew were like the Titanic's crew. They thought they were unsinkable. Nothing could harm them. However they clearly mention that they have zero actual combat training outside of simulations.
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Feb 27, 2017 14:46
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The crew of the Donnager also had been training for a war against Earth's ships (that were known to exist). No one knew about Protogen's stealth ships.
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Feb 27, 2017 15:36
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Why did Protogen attack the Donnager in the first place? What were they planning on doing with if they had taken it?
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Feb 27, 2017 16:06
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One interesting aspect of the Bobbie show character is that she's the scion of a super rich Martian family, whereas the book version is a middle class kid with two civilian older brothers and a proud Marine dad. I have three theories. Boring: They wanted to spice up the character and give her a background for plot irrelvant dialogue. Basic: They wanted to give her more political/economic juice and power for when she works for Avasaral. It would make her character more plot relevant without changing anything too big. Advanced: They're setting her family up to be a Martian foil/version of the Mao/Protogen guys. It would be really cool to see a novel plot inside a Martian dome or tunnel city.
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Feb 27, 2017 16:10
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SimonChris posted:Why did Protogen attack the Donnager in the first place? What were they planning on doing with if they had taken it? Capture the Cant crew, no? Didn't holden just make his big broadcast about the Cant being blown up, or something. I have to admit I wasn't hooked on this instantly and might not have paid full attention at the start.
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Feb 27, 2017 16:13
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Wxhode posted:scion of a super rich Martian family That's her squadmate. SimonChris posted:Why did Protogen attack the Donnager in the first place? What were they planning on doing with if they had taken it? Spoilers, maybe? The attacks on the Donnager and the Canterbury are false flags to get Earth and Mars going at it and distract everyone from what Protogen's up to. Toast Museum fucked around with this message at 16:16 on Feb 27, 2017 |
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Feb 27, 2017 16:14
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Wxhode posted:One interesting aspect of the Bobbie show character is that she's the scion of a super rich Martian family, whereas the book version is a middle class kid with two civilian older brothers and a proud Marine dad. She is?
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Feb 27, 2017 16:14
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SimonChris posted:Why did Protogen attack the Donnager in the first place? What were they planning on doing with if they had taken it? Put simply war is good for business.
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Feb 27, 2017 16:15
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You know how no one investigated Eros except the Space VICE guys Holden blew up? Yeah, that was only because there is an active war. Protogen had been planning the Eros experiment for some time. Starting a war was the only cover big enough.
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Feb 27, 2017 16:18
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Toast Museum posted:That's her squadmate. Oh, really? Then kind of dumb and it failed to make me care about the squad or retain anything about their individuality. Toast Museum posted:Spoilers, maybe? That's a reason to attack and destroy the Donnager, it's not a reason to risk several of your limited stealth ships in a low percentage chance to take the data core. Maybe their no empathy treatment also made them willing to take silly risks. I'm sure the core would have been useful, I just don't see it as a core (heh) element of their strategy so that the attempt made any sense. Of course the real reason was to have a cool boarding scene and give the crew of the Tachi (  ) a way to escape, if the attackers had played it safe and just blown up the Donnager from a distance the Tachi would have been wasted, too.
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Feb 27, 2017 16:20
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I think the boarders wanted the Canterbury survivors, not the data core. They might not have expected the Donnager’s commander to be so willing to blow the core.
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Feb 27, 2017 16:25
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Wxhode posted:Oh, really? Then kind of dumb and it failed to make me care about the squad or retain anything about their individuality. I double-checked, and yeah, the rich one is Hillman, the blonde woman. Seems like that detail was in there to give the Earth-born guy something to clap back about. quote:That's a reason to attack and destroy the Donnager, it's not a reason to risk several of your limited stealth ships in a low percentage chance to take the data core. Huh, yeah, that's a good point. Maybe they wanted the intel as leverage; they could dangle it over Earth to get concessions from both Earth and Mars.
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Feb 27, 2017 16:36
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I guess it would be easier to blow up more Mars ships with the Donnager intel. And that the Protogen guys had a weird relationship in regards to risk vs reward. Would have been a small case to blow them up at the wreck if they were afraid of survivors. That life boat was initially pretty hosed though.
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Feb 27, 2017 16:40
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The Squad is: Bobbie Rich girl Guy who wasn't born on Mars Black guy who stands in the background
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Feb 27, 2017 16:48
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Evernoob posted:Ye well sorry, that's maybe one aspect they had to change a bit. I think I mentioned this before, but I'm disappointed at the pre-book scenes with Bobbie because they've already demonstrated in season 1 that they can write great pre-book stuff with Avasarala. Normally I would be willing to give a TV adaptation a pass for that, but the Expanse has raised the bar significantly.
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Feb 27, 2017 18:23
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Wxhode posted:if the attackers had played it safe and just blown up the Donnager from a distance the Tachi would have been wasted, too. Pretty sure the stealth ships would have been annihilated if they'd have remained at distance. It was only when they moved into qcb and torpedos were rendered inaffective that they really hosed up the Donnager. At least that's how I remember it going down. Not 100% sure why they needed a boarding party tho, unless that was the only way to force a self destruct. I get that they weren't really prepared for the attack and were maybe a little cocky, but the stealth ships didn't seem to have any super advanced weaponry or tactics that should have resulted in a win. I mean the Roci took one out single-handed this season.
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Feb 27, 2017 20:02
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The Protogen stealth ships have axial mounted rail guns, which were the deciding factor in how the Donnager gets hosed up. PDCs are useless against hard rounds. Once they got past the initial torpedo volley that was how they ruined the Donnager's day. The Martian command would have had no idea what the bogeys were armed with.
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Feb 27, 2017 20:31
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Platystemon posted:You know how no one investigated Eros except the Space VICE guys Holden blew up? Similarly if they had to crack Eros with nukes this would be the perfect climate to do it and get away with it
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Feb 27, 2017 20:37
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If the Protogen forces had successfully captured the Donnager, they would've had access to its CIC and all the data on Martian military ship positions, operations, and a bunch of other information that would've been very useful in fomenting and directing a war between the great powers. The stealth ships were a means to an end: delivering the sample to Eros, and creating a system wide military crisis to cover for that action. Once that was completed, their utility in the grand plan was much more limited. So if you believe that after Eros the current solar-political order will be reshaped in your image as Mao does, it's worth it to risk a few ships to try to secure the Donnager instead of sucker punching it to death. Either way you've killed the Martian flagship (captured and killed or destroyed by condition 0) and maybe you get one of the most valuable information troves in the system as a part of the bargain. When the stars are your end goal, what is the price of a few ships compared to that?
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Feb 27, 2017 21:34
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It would've been pretty easy to use the captured Donnager to false flag some attacks on Earth assets, too.
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Feb 28, 2017 00:09
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