|
I think many of you are vastly overestimating how fast automation is going to take over. Even food kiosks are buggy and aggravatingly slow, nevermind any automation that requires even the slightest bit of creative/reactive thinking. I believe we have a few decades before automation makes serious and broad encroachments so if you're serious about the automated threat then now is the second best time to agitate for better social safety nets instead of waiting around until unemployment goes through the roof and overburdens a threadbare system.
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 18:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 12, 2024 09:58 |
|
|
poo poo it looks like there's a shortage of truck drivers anyway some of ya'll should get in while the gettin's good
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 18:59
|
|
|
Spunky Psycho Ho posted:poo poo it looks like there's a shortage of truck drivers anyway some of ya'll should get in while the gettin's good I have talked to some truck drivers and it is a surprisingly decent job actually, if you don't mind traveling around constantly. Lotta companies will even pay for your training if you have 0 experience whatsoever and no commercial license. Toadvine posted:I think many of you are vastly overestimating how fast automation is going to take over. Even food kiosks are buggy and aggravatingly slow, nevermind any automation that requires even the slightest bit of creative/reactive thinking. I agree w this Even if the truck was capable 100% of driving on its own I bet there will still be a human in the cab "just in case" for a long long time.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 19:20
|
|
|
Toadvine posted:I believe we have a few decades before automation makes serious and broad encroachments  If you have a magic solution to these problems, you just go ahead and let the rust belt know. m'kay? Training people to take green windfarm jobs won't, for example, remove the giant ecological disaster that is an old abandoned car factory. It also doesn't prevent the gigantic goddamn disaster that's looming as we start to realize how bad we hosed up making so many lithium batteries and exotic compound materials that cause new and wondrous problems for landfills. But keep on squeezing harder, I'm sure if you just squeeze hard enough the complications will begin to remain within your grasp. It'll be especially helpful if you claim future generations will come up with a solution for anything you can't fix now, or that problems you can't tackle will be tackled down the line. That's sustainability! Moridin920 posted:Even if the truck was capable 100% of driving on its own I bet there will still be a human in the cab "just in case" for a long long time. Is that guy still getting 100% of his pay? How quickly can the company hire a minim-al wage worker to step on the brakes and phone for the much smaller force of trained operator/engineers?
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 19:30
|
|
ME
|
Kjoery posted:from what i've read, you're of the school of thought that this wave of automation is just like the others - that it'll create new areas of industries which cannot be automated and that humans will be able to preform. i get your point but i think you kinda look at the economy as a zero sum game, but it really isn't. the pace at which ML-based automation is going to infiltrate the economy also matters here a lot for example, because it gives the economy valuable time to adjust and implement solutions, and this rate will be quite slow because getting software to actually by useable by the average participant in the economy takes a lot of time and effort
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 19:44
|
|
|
revdrkevind posted:If you have a magic solution to these problems, you just go ahead and let the rust belt know. m'kay? I think you and he are arguing the same thing, which is we need to do something about automation. The other post is just saying "even if it doesn't come right now we still need to address this issue while it is relatively not as widespread as it will be in 15-20+ years." I think we already largely have the solution to these problems, the political will just doesn't exist for anything that isn't "enrich the global capitalist billionaires." revdrkevind posted:Is that guy still getting 100% of his pay? How quickly can the company hire a minim-al wage worker to step on the brakes and phone for the much smaller force of trained operator/engineers? Idk but unions are good imo. iirc many career truck drivers own their own vehicle so they presumably would still just be doing the same thing which is transporting with their own automated truck, which they maintain/operate themselves.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 19:45
|
|
|
Toadvine posted:I think many of you are vastly overestimating how fast automation is going to take over. Even food kiosks are buggy and aggravatingly slow, nevermind any automation that requires even the slightest bit of creative/reactive thinking. the fact that climate change has been left virtually unanswered in politics has made be a bit cynical towards humanity's general ability to takle major, obvious, inevitable issues, though. that said, me and my comrades will keep up the fight #solidarity crime weed fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Feb 27, 2017 |
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 19:46
|
|
|
revdrkevind posted:
Toadvine posted:agitate for better social safety nets instead of waiting around until unemployment goes through the roof and overburdens a threadbare system. There's no plausible neo-luddite solution to automation. Best case scenario we anticipate the most probable outcomes (high unemployment, widespread loafing) and work hard to lessen their impact (better safety nets, job re-training, increased investment in public works, arts, legalized sex work).
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 19:46
|
|
|
Nationalize robots, make companies rent them from the state which then puts that money into a big "labor value" pool which is then redistributed to the citizens. Fully Automated Luxury Gay Space Communism
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 19:47
|
|
|
Kjoery posted:i mean, i do agree that its going to take time, but its a clear problem thats almost certain going to hit society, and hard. also i work for a dirty socialist party so we're all about safety nets and mincome, and im glad to report that we were completely crushed in the previous election and lost everything lol well i mean we managed to stop the growth of the ozone hole together, and china, the world manufacturing giant, has been doing environmentalist stuff for some time now, like carbon sinks and stuff. and it's not all high tech either they're for example literally planting billions of trees to soak up carbon lol. there is certainly a global effort to solve the problem and it's has been fruitful already, despite the setbacks. keeping up the fight is important to make sure this continues e: i just think a lot of people itt are demonstrating some unnecessarily extreme pessimism that in the end not only does not represent reality but ends up demotivating them Bulgogi Hoagie fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Feb 27, 2017 |
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 19:50
|
|
|
Bulgogi Hoagie posted:well i mean we managed to stop the growth of the ozone hole together, and china, the world manufacturing giant, has been doing environmentalist stuff for some time now, like carbon sinks and stuff. and it's not all high tech either they're for example literally planting billions of trees to soak up carbon lol. there is certainly a global effort to solve the problem and it's has been fruitful already, despite the setbacks. keeping up the fight is important to make sure this continues also the man of orange is certainly not helping spread awareness and action
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 19:55
|
|
|
Hey, maybe we start controlling breeding at some point before we fuckhammer ourselves even worse. Maybe don't let the population stay at this level and we don't start a massive glut of babies get born until/if we ever make getting off this rock and making other planets in our solar system inhabitable in some way to be able to support human life in a possible way. We'll probably die as a species first, but we're already on that death march anyway.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 19:55
|
|
|
A few years ago I would have said "forget Kyoto, forget all this; what is important right now in terms of global ecological disaster is India + China about to mass industrialize w/ coal, and they both say 'gently caress you, you did it in the 1800s and now it is our turn and gently caress the environment.'" Just imagine all those billions of people with fossil fuel cars for example! However, China (and I think India too but not sure there) has done nearly a 180 about face on that. They still fully intend to industrialize ofc, but they are looking around at the state of things and they are saying "huh, we're choking on our own filth" and they have made huge pushes for alternatives to coal/oil (such as nuclear) and taking other big steps as was mentioned. They're totally rethinking their stance on coal and other fossil fuels. That's pretty fuckin' cool for the world environment, even if the USA is starting to look bleak environment wise.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 19:56
|
|
|
PathAsc posted:Hey, maybe we start controlling breeding at some point before we fuckhammer ourselves even worse. Maybe don't let the population stay at this level and we don't start a massive glut of babies get born until/if we ever make getting off this rock and making other planets in our solar system inhabitable in some way to be able to support human life in a possible way. We'll probably die as a species first, but we're already on that death march anyway. this is the kind of completely delusional pessimist posting im talking about
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 19:57
|
|
|
so Trump announced he will make $54 billions in budget cuts to increase military spending by the same amount... in order to "win wars again" literally Hitler SpaceGoatFarts fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Feb 27, 2017 |
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 19:57
|
|
|
Trump appears to have the strategic acumen of someone who sucks at Risk unfortunately. Even in the debate when he was chortling about how "we announce we're attacking Mosul weeks in advance? WTF?" as if we are in 1300 and they can't see tank columns coming at them weeks in advance anyway I knew he was a moron in that regard. He probably literally just thinks our military sucks and our equipment blows and that's why we can't win wars of occupation and has no inkling of any further complexity wrt the situation on the ground. So of course his solution is to just toss money at the problem while promising to "streamline."
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 20:00
|
|
|
Bulgogi Hoagie posted:this is the kind of completely delusional pessimist posting im talking about they are quite real, and fairly easy to understand the science/statistics behind. the planet does not have an infinite capacity for people, and while that limit is debatable, we're going to read it eventually at our current trajectory. calling people who wish to discuss and attempt to tackle these issues delusional is counterproductive if you truly believe these problems to be valid.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 20:02
|
|
|
Kjoery posted:overpopulation is a real issue. climate change is a real issue, and is going to exasperate the stressors of overpopulation. overpopulation is a real issue until you obtain enough gdp per capita to buy contraception, coming very soon to a developing country near you
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 20:06
|
|
|
Moridin920 posted:He probably literally just thinks our military sucks and our equipment blows and that's why we can't win wars of occupation and has no inkling of any further complexity wrt the situation on the ground. So of course his solution is to just toss money at the problem while promising to "streamline."
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 20:07
|
|
|
well now that we've covered neoluddism and neomalthuanism, we should hit peak oil in the next couple of pages
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 20:10
|
|
|
Kjoery posted:yea, but bannon's the one doing the thinking. trump just talks and signs things passed to him that he cant read. If only Bannon could tell him to make banks pay for 2008 but that will never happen so they will just reenact it all in the coming years
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 20:10
|
|
|
Kjoery posted:overpopulation is a real issue. climate change is a real issue, and is going to exasperate the stressors of overpopulation. Overpopulation isn't the issue a lot of people think it is. Our worldwide population growth will eventually even out, as a greater percentage of the globe becomes a modern society. This video will explain it much better than I can: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsBT5EQt348 Basically what Bulgogi Hoagie said. Even if we achieve Utopia and have nothing to do but eat, sleep, have sex, and play video games, our population will be fine.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 20:13
|
|
|
People who worry about overpopulation are so loving weird I swear.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 20:14
|
|
|
If you drive any distance in America there's just endless miles of emptiness to be filled with strip malls
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 20:16
|
|
|
Isn't $54 billion like 2 hours worth of military spending?
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 20:22
|
|
|
Bulgogi Hoagie posted:overpopulation is a real issue until you obtain enough gdp per capita to buy contraception, coming very soon to a developing country near you runupon cracker posted:Overpopulation isn't the issue a lot of people think it is. Our worldwide population growth will eventually even out, as a greater percentage of the globe becomes a modern society. This video will explain it much better than I can: so, if you think that 10.5 bln isn't "overpopulated", then yeah, i was wrong and bad on that note, thanks for correcting me you two.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 20:23
|
|
|
Balthesar posted:Isn't $54 billion like 2 hours worth of military spending? Bloomberg says that is 10%? Sounds about right I guess although I could have sworn we do more than ~$540b in yearly spending on the military... https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-02-27/proposed-trump-budget-said-to-boost-defense-spending-cut-epa quote:Trump to Propose 10% Defense Increase in Budget Plan, Aides Say lols all around but extra lol for the EPA cuts
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 20:25
|
|
|
We're literally gonna do what the USSR did leading up to their collapse which is funnel all money into military and neglect everything else gonna be yuuuge lols
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 20:27
|
|
|
Moridin920 posted:We're literally gonna do what the USSR did leading up to their collapse which is funnel all money into military and neglect everything else gonna be yuuuge lols one of the yuge reasons ussr fell apart was that the communist party was extremely reluctant to provide youth with power so the country was ruled by geriatrics as well. lol although the whole "cannot get basic amenities at any time anywhere whatsoever" thing contributed more of course
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 20:44
|
|
|
Bulgogi Hoagie posted:one of the yuge reasons ussr fell apart was that the communist party was extremely reluctant to provide youth with power so the country was ruled by geriatrics as well. lol That's true on that note lol at the fact that Flint still has no safe water
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 20:45
|
|
|
Bulgogi Hoagie posted:this is the kind of completely delusional pessimist posting im talking about So it's which one is delusion and which is pessimism? Looking at the rate of births worldwide, even just maintaining 1:1 births to deaths leaves us overpopulated enough to shorten our species time here due to resources (I don't mean oil) and less time for advancement. Assuming we can't reach a technological level to do things within possible relativistic and physical laws as we know them now is pretty pessimistic I'd say. But I wouldn't deny that possibility either. Why wouldn't we want to extend our total time to extinction, unless we really want to go against the nature of organisms to thrive and continue?
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 21:03
|
|
|
What resources are so scarce that we couldn't support a global population of say 11b for hundreds of years at least?
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 21:16
|
|
|
Moridin920 posted:What resources are so scarce that we couldn't support a global population of say 11b for hundreds of years at least?
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 21:21
|
|
|
Guys I don't think Trump is actually hosed.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 21:46
|
|
|
well poo poo
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 21:48
|
|
|
i've hit peak caring
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 21:48
|
|
|
basement jihadist posted:i've hit peak caring Just imagine caring so much about any of this poo poo or being so scared about it that you have over a hundred posts itt Honky Dong Country fucked around with this message at 21:51 on Feb 27, 2017 |
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 21:49
|
|
|
Toadvine posted:I think many of you are vastly overestimating how fast automation is going to take over. Even food kiosks are buggy and aggravatingly slow, nevermind any automation that requires even the slightest bit of creative/reactive thinking. It's already replacing some jobs and doing the work of a few employees so you could say it's already replacing jobs but those things rely on actual people being there for the workflow to function Like yeah you can have less cashiers on the clock if you replace them with a kiosk but you still need someone at the counter to watch over them and do the 5% of poo poo the kiosks weren't even designed to do It's moving faster than people have anticipated but the end result of that movement isn't a total replacement
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 21:56
|
|
|
Moridin920 posted:What resources are so scarce that we couldn't support a global population of say 11b for hundreds of years at least? That's just what the science man in the New York Times article said what are you gonna do say he's wrong
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 21:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 12, 2024 09:58 |
|
|
nigga crab pollock posted:It's moving faster than people have anticipated but the end result of that movement isn't a total replacement Arguably doesn't matter; all you need is like 30-40% unemployment for poo poo to completely come apart at the seams. Less, even, depending on how pessimistic we want to be. Guaranteed income and/or making up 'busy work dig a hole then fill it up' jobs can be a stopgap for a while but... eh.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 22:00
|
|