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TomR posted:If the system knows your IPD exactly and can track your eyes then it can use convergence to tell what depth you are looking at. If all of this info gets passed to the game engine then it can use the LOD system to render less complex items outside your focus as well as lower resolution. What if you're looking exactly at the edge of something in the foreground though? How would it accurately tell if you're focused on the foreground or background?
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Feb 27, 2017 21:49
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The convergence of your eyes completes a triangle that lets you work out depth, so long as you know the distance from eye to eye.
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Feb 27, 2017 22:01
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Zero VGS posted:What if you're looking exactly at the edge of something in the foreground though? How would it accurately tell if you're focused on the foreground or background? Eye lens distortion tracking? I'm not an eye expert but I think focus and convergence are very strongly correlated, unless you make a conscious effort to override them*, so it shouldn't be a big issue. *Remember when those Magic Eye books were cool?
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Feb 27, 2017 22:09
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Foviated rendering alone would probably be enough to give that effect since whatever is not in the center of your vision would have less detail anyway.
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Feb 27, 2017 22:18
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haveblue posted:I'm not an eye expert but I think focus and convergence are very strongly correlated, unless you make a conscious effort to override them*, so it shouldn't be a big issue. It varies a great deal across the population; about 10% of people have reduced or no matching between convergence and focus, so any attempt to deduce their focus like that is going to give you the wrong answer.
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Feb 27, 2017 22:19
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NRVNQSR posted:It varies a great deal across the population; about 10% of people have reduced or no matching between convergence and focus, so any attempt to deduce their focus like that is going to give you the wrong answer. Good to know.
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Feb 27, 2017 22:25
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All this new hardware is good and necessary, of course, but isn't the big issue with VR working out locomotion without it feeling gimmicky?
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Feb 27, 2017 22:32
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Exioce posted:All this new hardware is good and necessary, of course, but isn't the big issue with VR working out locomotion without it feeling gimmicky? Depends on the game, this would still help for seated or room-sized experiences. Foveated rendering is more of a performance win than perception, if they do it right it won't affect what you see.
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Feb 27, 2017 22:37
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Exioce posted:All this new hardware is good and necessary, of course, but isn't the big issue with VR working out locomotion without it feeling gimmicky? That's more of a long-term problem needing a solution. There really ISN'T a solution that isn't gimmicky. Those 360 degree treadmills for instance. Cool, but gimmicky as hell. The wireless link will be a huge improvement. Bigger player area is the most immediate and simplest solution.
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Feb 27, 2017 22:37
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Exioce posted:All this new hardware is good and necessary, of course, but isn't the big issue with VR working out locomotion without it feeling gimmicky?
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Feb 27, 2017 22:38
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Exioce posted:All this new hardware is good and necessary, of course, but isn't the big issue with VR working out locomotion without it feeling gimmicky? RE7 seems to work well enough that most reviewers aren't complaining, so I'm not sure that's really the same priority it used to be. I'd say we're back at "Where's the killer app?".
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Feb 27, 2017 22:45
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Exioce posted:All this new hardware is good and necessary, of course, but isn't the big issue with VR working out locomotion without it feeling gimmicky? I would argue it's not even locomotion. It's something that can still be annoying, but generally can be worked out (teleporting can be annoying but won't make you sick, joystick/trackpad movement is smoother but can make you sicker etc), the biggest issue with VR is that there's not much to do in it in general. You'll burn through all the content really fast, so it's hard to justify buying into at this point unless you're a nut.
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Feb 27, 2017 22:45
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I think everyone here is really used to locomotion solutions but this needs to be stated: None of them are good. Do they work? Yes? Do they simulate movement? Sure. Do they allow for large areas to be travered and hopefully not make you sick? Mostly. But all of that doesn't matter when it all isn't convincing. I tell you you can teleport, sure you'll get it but its not intuitive nor does it really feel natural. The current locomotion solutions are akin to what headtracking is compared to VR. Sure headtracking (think TrackHat) gave you a sort of sense of presence, but it was peanuts compared to actual VR. That is what the locomotion problem has become, sure we can sort of get around the issue of simulating real world locomotion but they're all bandaids. Is this even a solveable problem? I honestly don't know but I see it as the one biggest limiting factor for VR.
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Feb 27, 2017 23:10
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Lemming posted:I would argue it's not even locomotion. It's something that can still be annoying, but generally can be worked out (teleporting can be annoying but won't make you sick, joystick/trackpad movement is smoother but can make you sicker etc), the biggest issue with VR is that there's not much to do in it in general. You'll burn through all the content really fast, so it's hard to justify buying into at this point unless you're a nut. It would be nice to have more creative content to hook people in. Things like Minecraft and Garrys mod but more made for VR. I know there is Vivecraft, but the core gameplay is still designed for FPS. I feel like Destinations could work as a new Garrys mod if Valve takes the development in that direction (I'm totally hooked on building stuff for it at least). A lot of the core stuff is already there, it really just would need a way to sync custom content between players and maps, and lots and lots of content.
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Feb 27, 2017 23:22
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Lemming posted:I would argue it's not even locomotion. It's something that can still be annoying, but generally can be worked out (teleporting can be annoying but won't make you sick, joystick/trackpad movement is smoother but can make you sicker etc), the biggest issue with VR is that there's not much to do in it in general. You'll burn through all the content really fast, so it's hard to justify buying into at this point unless you're a nut. Multiplayer games don't burn through that fast since there's re-playability especially with Onward, The Art of Fight, Modbox, Bullets and More, and the newly released Pavlov. Vivecraft never gets old. Climbey and Audioshield have tons of content. Then there's the hidden gems like Quell 4D. I've put 10 hours into that game and I still haven't beat it. It makes you feel like a total badass while also providing a stiff challenge. I also have driving games to look forward to, but I plan on buying a wheel for them. I've yet to try Elite Dangerous. I plan to install Voice Attack for that. Last but not least, you can develop your own content in Unity which is what I've been working on as well. Rectus posted:It would be nice to have more creative content to hook people in. Things like Minecraft and Garrys mod but more made for VR. I know there is Vivecraft, but the core gameplay is still designed for FPS. I feel like Destinations could work as a new Garrys mod if Valve takes the development in that direction (I'm totally hooked on building stuff for it at least). A lot of the core stuff is already there, it really just would need a way to sync custom content between players and maps, and lots and lots of content. Modbox is the new Garry's Mod. Destinations doesn't hold a handle to it.
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Feb 27, 2017 23:26
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I think that in the immediate future most games that aim for complete immersion will be designed around no-locomotion at all, either by using cockpit based designs (which can get a lot more novel and innovative than they currently are) or just by focusing the gameplay to single rooms (or having the room itself move, which really is a sort of cockpit). I also think that there will be more games which are less focused on immersion which will successfully turn the limitations of the various modes of locomotion into gameplay elements. And people will also generally develop stronger stomachs as VR becomes more widespread.
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Feb 27, 2017 23:28
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emanresu tnuocca posted:I think that in the immediate future most games that aim for complete immersion will be designed around no-locomotion at all, either by using cockpit based designs (which can get a lot more novel and innovative than they currently are) or just by focusing the gameplay to single rooms (or having the room itself move, which really is a sort of cockpit). I don't find artificial locomotion immersion killing if it's like trackpad movement or an arm swinger / run in place. In fact I love the locomotion system in The Art of Fight since it's so much fun to climb up buildings once you master it.
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Feb 27, 2017 23:31
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iceaim posted:Multiplayer games don't burn through that fast since there's re-playability especially with Onward, The Art of Fight, Modbox, Bullets and More, and the newly released Pavlov. Vivecraft never gets old. Climbey and Audioshield have tons of content. I'm taking about barriers to VR being successful in general. I think there's enough to do if the things available are games you specifically like. Almost everything you listed is indie level stuff which, while somewhat popular, is not going to appeal to the majority of people. For my part I've sunk a ton of time into the specific games I really enjoy, like Space Pirate Trainer and the Unspoken, but I recognize it's not enough to justify a headset for the average consumer.
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Feb 27, 2017 23:36
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Lemming posted:I'm taking about barriers to VR being successful in general. I think there's enough to do if the things available are games you specifically like. Almost everything you listed is indie level stuff which, while somewhat popular, is not going to appeal to the majority of people. For my part I've sunk a ton of time into the specific games I really enjoy, like Space Pirate Trainer and the Unspoken, but I recognize it's not enough to justify a headset for the average consumer. Ah I see what you're saying. Yeah I do agree with you. Space Pirate Trainer and Holopoint are also games I keep going back to. Raw Data is almost AAA level and the co-op multiplayer really adds a lot to the game.
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Feb 27, 2017 23:42
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Pavlov vr is some good CS'ey fun. There is only one map right now and only 2 game modes, team deathmatch and seek and destroy. Some issues with hitboxes/lag/body armor being OP, but for 6$ I'd say its worth it for EA game. Protip: you can buy guns and armor when you respawn. Dual wielding pistols never gets old.
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Feb 27, 2017 23:56
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emanresu tnuocca posted:I think that in the immediate future most games that aim for complete immersion will be designed around no-locomotion at all, either by using cockpit based designs (which can get a lot more novel and innovative than they currently are) or just by focusing the gameplay to single rooms (or having the room itself move, which really is a sort of cockpit). To me, trackpad locomotion is less about nausea than loss of immersion and movement. Basically, when you have a game with trackpad motion you just subconsciously stop moving and stand in place while moving the world around you. That's also a problem with teleport movement, though to a lesser degree since usually you do physical movements for your immediate environment and teleporting for larger ones. Sometimes you really do just want to walk around Skyrim. I haven't tried the treadmill approach, but if people say it's gimmicky I believe them. In the long run I'm really hoping for redirected walking to become a big player, though honestly that probably wont be realistic without wireless and very large (15'x15' minimum) play areas being common, which is going to be a long way away.
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Feb 28, 2017 00:14
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I just tried Rec Room Quest for the first time today. Super fun, amazing that this game is free. Wielding a bow and arrow continues to be one of the most compelling things to do in VR. Also I had almost no tracking issues and I'm on 1.11, so who the hell knows. Any other cool co op/single player stuff a la Quest?
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Feb 28, 2017 00:35
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I just picked up 5089 on steam. This looks fun (and I do recall EdEddnEddy playing it) and it supports room scale.
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Feb 28, 2017 00:38
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Knifegrab posted:I think everyone here is really used to locomotion solutions but this needs to be stated: None of them are good. a) they're not great, yes, but are they really any less serviceable than wolfenstein 3d in 1992? b) plenty of today's games still give old folks a good headspinnin' c) kids right now are being born with lovely VR so, speaking of, d) the answer to your problem:  
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Feb 28, 2017 01:28
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Just want to point out that this thing isn't well designed with a lot of games in mind. Unless of course, you can fold your upper-torso in half if you accidentally drop something on the ground.
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Feb 28, 2017 01:31
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Omni sounds fantastic for VR conversions of existing games (mostly first-rate on shooters), and terrible for anything developed with roomscale in mind. The most interesting VR games I can think of would never work.
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Feb 28, 2017 01:36
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Well there's apparently this thing, I remember reading about it working for crouching and bending over, and also being able to lock in place for when you sit on stuff too: But then again I also vaguely remember someone saying it was a kickstarter 'take the money and run' deal too but I have no idea how true that was so who knows 
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Feb 28, 2017 02:09
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https://twitter.com/MajorMcDoom/status/836300745230192643
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Feb 28, 2017 03:00
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Thor-Stryker posted:Just want to point out that this thing isn't well designed with a lot of games in mind. Unless of course, you can fold your upper-torso in half if you accidentally drop something on the ground. To be fair, most games let you pick things up off the ground without having to bend over. Superhot, Rec Room etc, if you reach towards things on the floor they'll highlight and you can hit grip for them to jump up to your hand. I'd blame a designer before I blame a treadmill when that's not the case. Icedude posted:Well there's apparently this thing, I remember reading about it working for crouching and bending over, and also being able to lock in place for when you sit on stuff too: Yeah they're several years past their due date, I wouldn't hold your breath: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1259519125/cyberith-virtualizer-immersive-virtual-reality-gam/comments
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Feb 28, 2017 03:30
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That looks more fun than the Job Simulator we ended up with. Speaking of bad VR games I think Job Simulator is one of the lamest most overrated overpriced (I had to pay for it) experiences on the Vive excluding total crap like Russian Underground. It's just a long tutorial with a sandbox that lets you throw objects around. It doesn't even have an endless job mode with random jobs. It's cool for non gamers, but that's about it. The binaural audio in Job Simulator was good though; when you play the radio and then turn around, it really does feel like the music playing is behind you. The Lab is otherwise superior to Job Simulator, and I still go back to play it. iceaim fucked around with this message at 04:00 on Feb 28, 2017 |
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Feb 28, 2017 03:56
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Does anyone know if you're supposed to be able to pick guns up off the ground in Pavlov? Not sure if my height is messed up or not in steam. I'm on a Rift.
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Feb 28, 2017 04:00
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iceaim posted:That looks more fun than the Job Simulator we ended up with. I also thought job simulator was incredibly overrated and a huge missed opportunity for some mini-games. I was expecting cook serve delicious VR at the very least! It fell into the trap of just assuming being in VR and picking stuff up was cool enough to carry it and they didn't think they needed an actual game, or gameplay
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Feb 28, 2017 04:09
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Further Pavlov vr fps reporting: You can run around with a cocked grenade as you go for knife kills, to secure said kills should plan A fail. The knife can be thrown, pick up a spare from one of your victims. AWP is good. There is a radio on your left shoulder.
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Feb 28, 2017 04:10
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Job Sim was good because it was focused and very highly polished for the time it came out, and it was bad because it was super boring
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Feb 28, 2017 04:13
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I think Job Simulator is a pretty good Wii Sports style pack in to be like "okay this is what room scale and tracked hand controllers are", and in that capacity works better than The Lab even if The Lab is more fun in general. I definitely don't think its worth the asking price though especially a year later as VR game design has matured. Unless you have kids in which case I feel like Job Sim is still the best game for strapping a kid in and letting them go crazy in VR.
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Feb 28, 2017 04:15
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Bhodi posted:I also thought job simulator was incredibly overrated and a huge missed opportunity for some mini-games. I was expecting cook serve delicious VR at the very least! At the time, it was. Since then a bunch of wider, deeper games have come out so it doesn't measure up any more.
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Feb 28, 2017 04:18
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Job Sim was and still is very good. It is an amusing and fun introduction to VR, and really helps get people into the VR mindset, especially the roomscale mindset. It's incredibly well polished, and is great for people to simply explore. I don't think there's a single game released since that does what it does as well as it does. It's also pretty fun and I got gold on all the jobs. It's probably in my top 5. Oddly enough, most of my top 5 are actually launch or near-launch games. Those being: Gorn Unseen Diplomacy TiltBrush Job Sim Super Hot Rec Room I'd love to see other folks top 5s haveblue posted:At the time, it was. Since then a bunch of wider, deeper games have come out so it doesn't measure up any more.
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Feb 28, 2017 05:28
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GlyphGryph posted:Like what, exactly? Most games that are coming up still fail to live up to being as wide OR as deep, personally. It's mostly just "different genre". It's goal was pure interactivity and playful exploration and it nailed it - if you know of a game that does it better, please let me know. Most games are full of tons of "dead space" which feels like poo poo. I have a slightly different perspective since I have a PSVR, but I'd say Rez, Rush of Blood, and especially RE7.
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Feb 28, 2017 05:46
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Knifegrab posted:I think everyone here is really used to locomotion solutions but this needs to be stated: None of them are good. Do they work? Yes? Do they simulate movement? Sure. Do they allow for large areas to be travered and hopefully not make you sick? Mostly. The only solution is a big rear end warehouse.
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Feb 28, 2017 06:00
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Man when is Budget Cuts coming out. 
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Feb 28, 2017 06:06
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